How important is it to be out regarding one's religious beliefs, or lack therof?

[Marquis de Carabas]

This thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63746) got me thinking...

It is obvious that some people feel a need for those around them to know their religious leanings. Personally, I've never understood it, either when I was religious or now that I am not. It's just another fact about myself, one that I am not ashamed to admit, but not one I'm particularly proud of, either. I feel no need to announce to all and sundry that I am an atheist, just as I feel no need to announce that I don't believe in alien abductions, ESP, Atlantis, Bigfoot, and so on. If the topic is religion, I'll gladly state my opinion, as I would for any other topic, but atheism is not some defining feature of my life I feel pressed to tell.

All who know me reasonably well know I don't attend church and value skepticism and critical thought, so I'm sure many suspect, at least. My close friends know, just because we've discussed religion, and as I said, I've no problem giving my views once the subject is broached. Most of my family do not know, religion not being a topic we have ever really discussed. So I suppose I fall into the partially out category, though I don't necessarily think I need to be partially out.

So, how important is it to you that your religious beliefs be generally known? Note that the question is not how out you are, but how out you feel you should be, possibly different things. I used the broad groupings of theist and non-theist due to limited poll options. Feel free to expound.

[Almo]

Not important at all. I tell a few people, but not many.

[Freethinker]

I have mixed feelings about it. On principle, I feel like hiding something like this is unhealthy, and if everybody would be honest about their beliefs, the religious nutjobs would have far less influence. On the other hand, making such information public would be devastating to some people I love. On a more practical level, in the US Midwestern small town where I live, it would be social suicide for me and my children if I were known as an atheist.

One of my neighbors knows, and shares my outlook, but his wife makes him go to church every Sunday and Wednesday :( . I enjoy the look on his face when I'm heading out with the ski boat while he's heading off to church on Sunday. :p

[NotJesus]

I don't think it's at all important for my views to be generally known. I handle it on a case-by-case basis. Most of my friends know I'm an atheist (and many of them are as well). Some of my family know, others don't. I don't see anything to be gained by upsetting my devoutly Catholic mother with the news. She's aware that I haven't gone to church for many years but beyond that we don't discuss it. As for casual acquaintances, co-workers, etc., I think it would be just as ill-mannered of me to trumpet my atheism to them as it would be for the believers among them to push Jesus, Allah, whoever at me.

[bluess]

Many of my friends are aware I am agnostic, my immediate family knows. Whether I make it known in business situations is dependent on the politics involved.

[Q-Source]

I learnt that it is counterproductive to announce that you are an atheist, even to your closest relatives and friends. They can´t handle it, they think that you are condemned to hell, therefore it causes them distress.

I´ve stopped talking about it. Just when it is the case, I reject going to church or praying or whatever people expect you to do in a world where 90% of the population is a believer.

[andyandy]

generally speaking, religion is not something which plays a significant part in the lives of a majority of UK citizens - and therefore the default position is one of apathetic indifference with regards to the issue. Whether one is "out" or not is largely irrelevant....which means that your religious beliefs are something that you keep to yourself - simply because most people won't care :)


*of course, this is only a generalisation - probably best suited to the Church of England faith.....within smaller communities where religion is closer tied to identity I assume that there is a slightly different attitude.....

[Garrette]

There is no universally applicable answer. As I explained in the thread you linked, I have had one circumstance when I felt I had to let the other person know. I also feel I need to not advertise it in the case of my children, and I intend, if possible, to keep it secret from my mother and father forever. For the rest, it either comes up or doesn't, is either appropriate or isn't.

Were my children all to be full grown tomorrow and my parents to pass away, I would not feel compelled to make it more well known than it is now, nor would I feel compelled to hide it.

[Apathia]

I prefer just being myself and expressing my thoughts, but when I'm around Ideologs of any sort, I tread carefully.

[Jorghnassen]

Depends how the question is asked... if you ask what my religion is, my answer will be Catholic, (by default, I don't have anything else to call a religion). If you ask whether I believe in God or not, then I'll say I'm an atheist. If you don't ask, I won't say anything.

[Darat]

generally speaking, religion is not something which plays a significant part in the lives of a majority of UK citizens - and therefore the default position is one of apathetic indifference with regards to the issue. Whether one is "out" or not is largely irrelevant....which means that your religious beliefs are something that you keep to yourself - simply because most people won't care :)


*of course, this is only a generalisation - probably best suited to the Church of England faith.....within smaller communities where religion is closer tied to identity I assume that there is a slightly different attitude.....

Have to say these were my first thoughts about the issue - however then I thought well there are some ares in the UK where it is perhaps a bit more of an issue e.g. NI but even there it is probably summed up by the Quentin Crisp quote I've used a few times:

When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"

[jimlintott]

I have mixed feelings about it. On principle, I feel like hiding something like this is unhealthy, and if everybody would be honest about their beliefs, the religious nutjobs would have far less influence. On the other hand, making such information public would be devastating to some people I love. On a more practical level, in the US Midwestern small town where I live, it would be social suicide for me and my children if I were known as an atheist.

One of my neighbors knows, and shares my outlook, but his wife makes him go to church every Sunday and Wednesday :( . I enjoy the look on his face when I'm heading out with the ski boat while he's heading off to church on Sunday. :p

I'd say that if you are comfortable expressing your true feelings about belief then you are 'out'. When I see the amount of grief that being 'in' can bring to some I would say that we are all better off 'out'. When I read a post like the one quoted I don't know what to say. It's a shame that being 'in' can cause far less grief than being 'out'.

No easy answers I guess.

Me, I've always been an unabashed atheist. I can't even remember for how long but possibly single digit age (although it doesn't come up much when you are eight.)

[Ladewig]

My father is understanding of my position, but an aunt once asked me about my faith and was not receptive to my lack thereof. I backed down and have never mentioned it again.

When an uncle from the other side of the family died, my brother and I were the closest living relatives and even though my uncle hadn't attended a church service for the last 50 years of his life, we let ourselves be talked into having a priest do the funeral. I regret that decision and if I had the chance to do it again, I would have written and delivered a eulogy myself. I would have loved to talk about the important values that my uncle taught me as I was growing up.

I have left instructions with the family that my entire body be donated for organs and medical instruction. My friends are scattered all over the country so I told my brother that I don't even want a memorial service.

[tkingdoll]

Not important, but then again I live in a country where no-one cares what you do or don't believe.

[HeyLeroy]

I don't believe in the supernatural. I'm not 'out' about it; I don't go around yelling "I'm an atheist! Haw haw!" but it's not like I hide it.

If someone tries to push their religious beliefs on me, though, they're in for an argument. As polite or impolite an argument as they want, too.

[Esperdome]

I'm becoming more outspoken about my atheism, but I view it as a reaction to the polarization that is increasing in the U.S. at this time. I would feel more secure at work if there weren't as many evangelicals who want to wear their god on their shirtsleeves. Funny thing is, they are good Friends of mine, and really good people outside of this one thing.

I avoid the subject with my parents to keep from having big arguments with them. My relationship with them is in many ways a truce agreed upon to maintain harmony after worse disagreements in my late teens and early twenties.

All of my friends outside of work know I'm an atheist.

[snooziums]

I do not really talk about my beliefs to most around me. I am in a rather conservative area. When locals hear that I do not believe in their God, they say that I am lost and going to Hell. And when they find out that I do believe in reincarnation, they say that it is really evil spirits possessing me.

I really do not want to argue with them, as it is rather pointless. So I almost never talk about my beliefs to anyone locally in person.

[Arg9]

I think the trick is giving subtle hints to those around. I've learned that those go a long way. People pick up on them and loosen up. I start with saying "goddammit" alot.

If someone is dating I think it should come up ASAP.

I don't care too much about it really. If the topic comes up, it comes up. I don't even know how to label myself so that makes it harder for people to understand. All I know is I'm not religious. I'd rather spend my time talking to them about recipes or beer or home repairs.

[ysabella]

I do not really talk about my beliefs to most around me. I am in a rather conservative area. When locals hear that I do not believe in their God, they say that I am lost and going to Hell. And when they find out that I do believe in reincarnation, they say that it is really evil spirits possessing me.

I really do not want to argue with them, as it is rather pointless. So I almost never talk about my beliefs to anyone locally in person.In Olympia? I didn't realize there was any place in Olympia that was like that! :jaw-dropp

[snooziums]

In Olympia? I didn't realize there was any place in Olympia that was like that!

It is less in Olympia. However, they are planning to build two mega-churches in the area. One in Tumwater and one on the Westside of Olympia.

I grew up in Centralia, WA, and only recently moved to Olympia. That was the location I was referring to.

[maddog]

I have LONG been a VERY ACTIVE member of my church, although it is a particular parish where critical thinking is encouraged -- mostly critical thinking about how one's faith informs one's behavior and activities, but critical thinking nonetheless. Obviously, it is not a place where people take the Bible literally.

I think it would surprise no one there to find that I have a list of disagreements with The Church (Roman Catholic), and in fact I would suppose that most of this group does also. I do think most would be surprised by my ... hmmm... how to say it... I'm not totally comfortable with the word "atheism"... how about "non-belief in the supernatural"? BUT, I don't think anyone there would be offended by it.

Overall, that particular group has so many positives that even with a non-theistic approach, I'm happy to be a part of that community. I have not "come out" to people there, though I am seriously struggling with the concept. I wonder -- is it emotionally dishonest to participate as an active member of this Catholic community while not believing in the divinity of Jesus (though I do think he was probably an awesome dude, a hero and role model), or the existence of God? I struggle because I don't want to be holding out, to be dishonest with this group of people who I love so dearly.

On the other hand, if I "come out", I DO NOT want to be proselytizing. What makes me comfortable, for myself, in my disbelief in God, is the arduous process of how I got there -- I earned my atheism, so to speak. I read, I studied, I discussed, I thought -- I worked at my faith, in growing and maturing as a complete person, and the disbelief is where that work led me, through an open-minded (to the best of my ability, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I necessarily did it all that well) search for truth.

In any case, while there are the televangelist / fundamentalist / extremist types who maybe need a good knock on the head, this is NOT the people in my church. I would absolutely NOT want to discount any experiences that any of them have had, nor their attributions of their experiences to God. It is the church that has brought me together with these people, and it is this church and this group that has helped me learn and grow to where I am now. I don't want to interfere with any growth processes that others are going through, but if I can help people in growth I'd be happy to -- I just want to be positive, encouraging, and inoffensive in the process.

So there it is -- how to be emotionally honest about it, without being offensive or proselytizing? I know that, for me, being inoffensive is generally more difficult than it is for most people... :rolleyes: But still -- I want my friendships based on honesty, but where the group is centered on religious faith, it wouldn't be right for me to be negative or destructive in any way to that group.

It's a tough question -- one that I struggle with frequently.

Marquis -- thanks for asking it.

[zizzybaluba]

I'm glad to hear a thread I started got somebody thinking!

Honestly though, I didn't jump up and down yelling 'I'm an atheist!' or anything of the sort. I saw irony in a bunch of myspace bulletin postings relating god and september 11th and felt compelled to say something about killing in the name of god/religion has been going on for centuries, and its always a bad thing.

Family wise, I don't think any of my close relatives really would have a problem with my atheism-- save maybe one woo-woo aunt who likes Sylvia Brown (is the 'Stop Sylvia' site up yet?). My Ma never made my sister and I go to church (she fell out of favor with Catholicism when she needed fertility treatments-- the result was me). My dear departed Grammy (and even though she's gone, what her opinion would have been means a lot to me, rightly or no) I think wouldn't have had much of a problem-- she used to call church the place where 'you gotta stand up and sit down and awful lot-- why would god have something against people like me, with bad knees?'. I grew up in Cleveland, which really isn't a very religious place (at least in my part of town), so my oldest friends don't really care. Here, in Maryland, where I live now, is a different matter altogether, however. I've been here 5 years and its still a bit of a culture shock for me.

[ysabella]

It is less in Olympia. However, they are planning to build two mega-churches in the area. One in Tumwater and one on the Westside of Olympia.

I grew up in Centralia, WA, and only recently moved to Olympia. That was the location I was referring to.Yeah, in Lacey, too. The old Lacey Cinemas got turned into a big ol' church. :boggled:

[snooziums]

Yeah, in Lacey, too. The old Lacey Cinemas got turned into a big ol' church.

Oh just wait until the Nazarene church expands with a new 2,000 seat sanctuary. I attended that church when I first came back to Olympia, and darn, was it fundamentalist. So many topics on how homosexuality was bad, and so many on how (the recently elected then) president G.W. Bush was so good.

But, just wait until the new Church of the Living Water (a Four-Square church) is built in West Olympia just off of Highway 101 between Black Lake Blvd. and the Evergreen Parkway. That one will initially seat 3,000, with development plans to expand later to seat 6,000! Right now, their current church (which my sister attends) seats 1,000, and they have to have six services during the week because of overcrowding!

And to think, it will be within a mile of where I live. *sigh*

[hgc]

I live in New York City, so it's easy to be out about Atheism. But if I lived elsewhere, like say Dallas, I may find myself a little more wary.

[ingoa]

How important is it to be out with your religious beliefs?

???
I can't be out with my religious beliefs. I haven't got any.

[0oTITANo0]

???
I can't be out with my religious beliefs. I haven't got any.

lol, yeah. People who are pretty close to me understand that I don't have theistic beliefs. But I dont consider myself to be in or out. I still do christmas with my parents because its a great tradition and spending time with my family is important. Its perfectly valid as a social ritual. Hell, I even go to christmas mass because I like all the candles, church architecture and hymns. Its more important to me to bond with my Mom than not to go to a church service on abstract philosophical grounds. Sure, I believe its all nonsense but it will not hurt me to participate.

[Foolmewunz]

MdC - great question, if only because I find the prelminary results a little astonishing. (At 74 votes with a relatively small number of non-theists thinking it is important to out oneself.) I really would have thought that number to be much higher. That's why it's a great question - any result that makes me go "Hmmmm?"..... is a great question.

I've been outed for years, but I've had the comfort of usually living longer stretches in fairly large and cosmopolitan cities (New Orleans, New York, Montreal). I can't say how outspoken I would have been had we stayed in, say, Tulsa for longer than the year and a half that i spent there. (I exclude the total of seven years I've spent in East Asia. It's truly a different world over here. The myriad beliefs tend to promote a laissez-faire attitude, so no one's ever questioned my atheism, other than to perhaps comment that they were under the impression that all Americans were very Christian. That's a comment out of ignorance more than tolerance or intolerance, though.)

[Ginarley]

Personally I think its important to be openly atheist for one reason - the world has to get more comfortable with the concept of atheists being more than a few extremists who burn churches. Atheists as rational thinkers are NOT what the world sees because the rational atheists are not out there making a name of themselves in the name of ... er .. noone!

Atheism will take off once it gets out in the open so people can see it and understand it. Sure its difficult thanks to the stigma attached to it but we gotta start somewhere :)

[PenguinWarrior]

generally speaking, religion is not something which plays a significant part in the lives of a majority of UK citizens - and therefore the default position is one of apathetic indifference with regards to the issue. Whether one is "out" or not is largely irrelevant....which means that your religious beliefs are something that you keep to yourself - simply because most people won't care :)


*of course, this is only a generalisation - probably best suited to the Church of England faith.....within smaller communities where religion is closer tied to identity I assume that there is a slightly different attitude.....

Yup. That's the one. It's not important because nobody really cares. Most of my friends know, because religion is something that generally comes up in conversation eventually (and because I occasionally start ranting about it to my non-theistic friends on MSN. I'm quietly evasive about my views with my Christian friends:-)), but it's really not a big deal.

It's quite weird reading Americans talking like this, as it has always been a complete non-issue with people I know. Perhaps one day the USA will become a modern western country. :-)

[maddog]

bump.
Just because I'm really curious about this, and want everybody to have a chance to respond.

[Pidge]

"to be out"? I've not encountered this phrase before, is it a US colloquism?

Something along the lines of "coming out of the closet" perhaps?

[maddog]

Though this is an old thread, it is on a question I've been pondering again recently. So, rather than start a new thread repeating it, I'm bumping it to see if anybody new has comments, or if anybody old has new comments.

And if you haven't already voted in this poll, please do now!

Thanks,
Maddog

[arthwollipot]

Interesting palaeothread.

I come from a society where it is considered a bit weird to be forward about one's religious leanings. I don't know the religions of any of my co-workers, and they don't know mine. Most people around would be pretty uncomfortable if someone suddenly started talking about religion, either in a business or in a social context.

[Puppycow]

I don't pretend to have faith but I don't announce my lack of it either unless somebody else brings the subject up or makes a claim based on faith that I find to be dubious.

[Third Eye Open]

I never bring it up unless someone asks directly, but, having a religious family it comes up a lot, and let me tell you it feels SO MUCH better not to pretend.
Though I may be lucky to have a family that hasn't excommunicated me.

[MG1962]

Interesting palaeothread.

I come from a society where it is considered a bit weird to be forward about one's religious leanings. I don't know the religions of any of my co-workers, and they don't know mine. Most people around would be pretty uncomfortable if someone suddenly started talking about religion, either in a business or in a social context.

Yes that was something I noticed almost as soon as I got of the plane here in the US. Walking down a beach and woman just started talking to me, then telling me about her religion and how it saved her....etc etc

In Australia you would need about three bottles of good wine before any conversation turned so intimate

[arthwollipot]

In Australia you would need about three bottles of good wine before any conversation turned so intimateOne of the nice things about going to TAM is that there, no-one's likely to try and pull this one out.

[In My Spare Time]

If we're not out, we're too easy to discount, demonize and ignore. Learned the lesson growing up gay, applying it as a mature atheist.

[arthwollipot]

If we're not out, we're too easy to discount, demonize and ignore. Learned the lesson growing up gay, applying it as a mature atheist.Fair enough, but around here, atheists have never been discounted, demonised or ignored the way that gays have.

[Minadin]

I'm fairly odd on the JREF forums in that I am a theist. But, I don't think it's just wrong to try to push your beliefs on people, I think it's counter-productive. And, you have to remain open to changing your beliefs, or you simply aren't being honest.

[HansMustermann]

I guess it depends. Most of the time I say I don't believe in a god, but if I'm not in a mood to potentially end up in discussions about it, I make up my own SF religion. (Hey, it already worked for L. Ron Hubbard;))

E.g., I believe it's all a computer game and I hope my player doesn't forget to pay the monthly fee. Do I believe I'll be saved? Oh yes, I'm auto-saved to the hard drive every half an hour and to tape every weekend ;)

[In My Spare Time]

I'm fairly odd on the JREF forums in that I am a theist. But, I don't think it's just wrong to try to push your beliefs on people, I think it's counter-productive. And, you have to remain open to changing your beliefs, or you simply aren't being honest.

Back to the handy gay analogy.

I'm not pushing atheism on anyone by being out about it any more than I'm pushing same sex attraction on anyone by being out about that. As a handy scapegoat in the US both religiously and sexually, it's important that the reality of myself and people like me is known by the public. When they realize that we're relatively normal humans and not particularly bent on the destruction of society, it's harder to try to take our rights away.

[Minadin]

Back to the handy gay analogy.

I'm not pushing atheism on anyone by being out about it any more than I'm pushing same sex attraction on anyone by being out about that. As a handy scapegoat in the US both religiously and sexually, it's important that the reality of myself and people like me is known by the public. When they realize that we're relatively normal humans and not particularly bent on the destruction of society, it's harder to try to take our rights away.

I never said that you were - and I hope you didn't take the meaning of my words in that way. I am far more critical of my evangelical bretheren who insist that there's something wrong with people who do not agree with them.

Live and let live, I say.

[In My Spare Time]

Just wanted to be sure. Based on the thread topic and some specific crap I've had to put up with in the past, I wanted to distinguish being out from evangelizing.

[Minadin]

I think that being open and honest about who you are and what you believe is completely different from proselytizing.

[arthwollipot]

I think that being open and honest about who you are and what you believe is completely different from proselytizing.Yeah, but wait until you are asked, eh?

[Minadin]

I guess it depends on how open you want to be. People you want to be close to - as friends, whatever - are either going to accept you as you are, or they won't. I don't see what the difference is either way. For some people it might matter, I guess, for me it doesn't.

[Minadin]

And why on earth am I responding to a 2006 thread?

[Hokulele]

And why on earth am I responding to a 2006 thread?


You did say you were fairly odd... :D

[Minadin]

touché

[Fiona]

In Australia you would need about three bottles of good wine before any conversation turned so intimate

I realise this is an old thread but this comment struck me because I had not looked at this way before.

As has been said, with the exception of a few places like Northern Ireland, and a few families, nobody much cares about religion here.

I have come across a few people who "converted", usually in their teenage years. I think that is a time when such questions become important and many people explore them. But a few of those took the "spread the good news" message seriously and, being young and gauche, they felt they had to tell everyone. People reacted in various ways, but for most in my circle there was a big admixture of embarrassment. Yet I never really realised it was because the subject is largely private here.

It is often said that polite people do not discuss religion or politics in a public setting: it is not good manners. With friends it is, of course, different.

It sounds as if this is not the case in the US.

[Minadin]

Usually, polite people don't discuss religion or politics in more formal settings in my experience. You wouldn't normally bring it up at work or a social event - you risk alienating people with your views. Not everyone is polite.

[Ikarus]

The polite here don't talk about religion and politics because it is bad manner. However, the rude don't talk about it either, because nobody cares, which is why it is avoided by the polite people in the first place.

Sometimes, you do get to talk about it with friends and then they may say they belong to such and such religion. Doesn't change a thing, usually.

My God... This society is beyond salvation! We're all getting along, religiously. :(

ETA: It is different when "such and such religion" is called Islam. You're probably a social benefits leech without a job then, who may be plotting something sinister. But then they deny that and it's all good again.

[Fiona]

I agree, Ikarus. I have not made myself clear, so thanks for that. This is the difference I was trying to get at, if it is a difference. Discussion of religion is embarrassing, not alienating.

[arthwollipot]

I thought I'd add a bit from my own experiences here. As some may know, I in my misspent youth once joined an evangelical Christian church (Assemblies of God - same denomination as Sarah Palin) and I spent a couple of years as a Born-Again. One of the things that struck me about the church was its emphasis on "witnessing". You were supposed to "witness" to people - to tell them all about how great God was, and how Jesus Christ had affected your life.

I couldn't do it.

I just couldn't bring myself to mention it to anyone, even people I perceived were under emotional stress - usually considered a prime target. The whole idea was just so uncomfortable to me that I never witnessed to even a single person, ever.

In fact, this emphasis on proselytisation was one of the factors that convinced me that this church was very much not for me. Other members of the church practically bragged about how many people they had witnessed to. I just couldn't do it, especially to people I respected.

[Verde]

What makes me comfortable, for myself, in my disbelief in God, is the arduous process of how I got there -- I earned my atheism, so to speak. I read, I studied, I discussed, I thought -- I worked at my faith, in growing and maturing as a complete person, and the disbelief is where that work led me, through an open-minded (to the best of my ability, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I necessarily did it all that well) search for truth.



Are you saying that it was a hard task to get to a position of faith, or to move away from that?

To me, a probably weak analogy would be to ride a bicycle up a steep hill of theistic rationalization, only to reach the top and see the clear plain of reality stretching out ahead of you. The coast downhill would be quite exciting.

Myself, I think I was born an atheist. I have no recollection of ever believing in a deity, although my Catholic mother would drag me to church on a Sunday.
By the the time I was ten years old I made it known that I had better things to do with my time. (Yey, homework!)

Back to the post-that-walked-with-the dinosaurs; I really don't feel the need to trumpet my atheism, even amongst my friends. Anyone who has known me for some time knows where I stand. It is simply not an issue for most of us. Being outspoken about religion or politics when the conversation does not warrant it is generally considered to be bad manners.

If someone does start to push a topic that I disagree with I will certainly speak up, but I'm not likely to initiate that.

Professionally, it is a bit different. I spend a lot of my working time in areas of the US where religion is very prominent, and I have found that it is better to smile and stay quiet if I want to get anything done.

V.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Christ, I used to post serious things?

[maddog]

And why on earth am I responding to a 2006 thread?

I brought it up again... "Resurrected it", so to speak :D


:duck:

[maddog]

Are you saying that it was a hard task to get to a position of faith, or to move away from that?

Not so much either, really. As a "cradle" Catholic, it would have been fairly easy for me to just go along, get along, etc. as I think many people do with regard to their religion. As for me, I *worked* at it, meaning, I read and studied to find out what the church believes & teaches, and why; why some aspects are more important, what practices and rituals are supposed to accomplish, and ALL that.

It was all of that study, along with studying science, that led me to believe that there is no God. I guess I figured that somewhere over the centuries, there was some evidence. Well, I suppose there was -- not strict, absolute evidence, but events or occurrences that some people accepted as if they were solid evidence. Or people came to the theory/conclusion "God did it", and without a better explanation, they accepted that. And in the course of study, I figured out that those "proofs" were not really proof; that the "evidence" that others accepted, I could no longer accept.

And all of THAT really was hard work! Not just doing the studying, but clearing out all the assumptions that I'd been brought up with, that I'd had for years and years. To quote Ayn Rand: "Contradicitions don't exist. If you think you have a contradiction, check your assumptions" That's exactly what I had to do.

[I Ratant]

I don't make any effort to be noticed.
Most of my acquaintances are sincere Christians.
I just let them natter on about their faith.
Creating any problems with dissent about any of it, not worth the hard feelings.
But the professionals, who man the booths at the Mall, or intrude on lunch at the Food Court, they're fair game!
And they generally don't like the experience! :)

[maddog]

Christ, I used to post serious things?

Scary, ain't it? :D

You have an amazing ability to be deeply, profoundly serious, as well as a tremendous knack for seeing "the line" of propriety and boldly blasting it to smithereens, and somehow doing it all with great humor. You're an awesome dude, Marquis.

I presume, when you said "Christ", you meant me, of course...

[Foolmewunz]

Now I know I voted in the poll and that means I must have posted because I don't think I ever vote without posting. I can't recall what I posted but this was back when I first joined here, so I'm curious if my stay with you godless heathens has changed what I answered.

If answered today, I'd say......

I never really lived around people who were too demanding or judgmental so I was always fairly open about my atheism. Yet, I've never been one to condemn a person for their faith and never gone out and posted pro-atheism signs on public buses or worn "F the Church" t-shirts.

I'm still a confirmed atheist, but I don't think I know the religion of more than five people here in Hong Kong. One of those, my favorite Jehovah's Witness at the office, for obvious reasons. The others are accidental..... I know because of things like having attended a wedding which they held in a Methodist Church. But if I know a hundred people here, I probably couldn't say what their religious beliefs are for more than about ten of them.

ETA: Experiment Outcome
Not much difference. Different train of thought on the one part, but pretty much the same comments on Outing vs Not Outing. You bunch have neither corrupted nor reformed me, evidently.

[Skeptic Guy]

Christ, I used to post serious things?

[atheist proselytizing]Christ? Who is this Christ of whom you speak? Do you have any evidence of said Christ? Do you rule your whole life by his Word?[/atheist proselytizing]

Funny, I just posted in a thread in the humor category, that I recently 'came out' as an Atheist to a group of friends at work. While I don't deny it if asked outright, I don't bring it up on my own.

I'm concerned about the reaction it would have within my workplace (though my recent experience may belay that concern) or in other social settings outside of my immediate family and friends. Also, it could impact on my wife's profession so I try to be careful.

I think that religion is much more important here in the US than elsewhere. Of late it seems to guide much of our politics, science, and general social mores and while most people don't want to discuss it in polite company, it is still a strong underpinning of our society in general.

I think many people would be much more accepting if I were to say I was a Buddhist, Jehovah's Witness, or even Scientologist than if I told them I was an Atheist. At least I'd demonstrate that I had 'spirituality' or 'faith' in 'something greater'.

Anyway, I've become more open about it as of late.

[The Atheist]

Nice old bump.

It's not in the least important to be out down here, where atheism is the implied default position. On the other hand, people coming out as christian are likely to be shunned and subjected to jokes about choirboys, regardless of their [religious] bent.

I find being introduced as "The Atheist" tends to avoid confusion.