the fall of western civilization [Archive]

corplinx

9th June 2003, 06:37 PM

I am speaking, of people who bring their infants and toddlers to restaurants. Get a damn sitter or stay the hell at home!

It used to be, only certain parts of our society did this sort of thing. You would see an immigrant family from a country that doesn't have western social graces or a minority family who is historically disenfranchised and wasn't taught how to tip or to get a sitter. The problem is now people whose families have lived in the west for generations are "forgetting" their good western manners.

I think not being able to go to a restaurant at dinner time without hearing wailing children is the the beginning of the end. My wife and I both feel like going postal when you hear loud toddlers and wailing babies in every direction.

And another thing, don't take your 3 year old to a bar and grill after dark. This is the rudest of the rude. There is nothing like seeing some lady drag her yelling screaming kids into a bar and grill 2 hours after their bedtime.

Look, if you people don't quit this crap its going to be soylent green time, capeche?
Capitalism being what is, I am waiting for restaurants with "no children under 5 permitted" signs to pop up.

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
I am speaking, of people who bring their infants and toddlers to restaurants. Get a damn sitter or stay the hell at home!

It used to be, only certain parts of our society did this sort of thing. You would see an immigrant family from a country that doesn't have western social graces or a minority family who is historically disenfranchised and wasn't taught how to tip or to get a sitter. The problem is now people whose families have lived in the west for generations are "forgetting" their good western manners.

I think not being able to go to a restaurant at dinner time without hearing wailing children is the the beginning of the end. My wife and I both feel like going postal when you hear loud toddlers and wailing babies in every direction.

And another thing, don't take your 3 year old to a bar and grill after dark. This is the rudest of the rude. There is nothing like seeing some lady drag her yelling screaming kids into a bar and grill 2 hours after their bedtime.

Look, if you people don't quit this crap its going to be soylent green time, capeche?
Capitalism being what is, I am waiting for restaurants with "no children under 5 permitted" signs to pop up.

The worst is when people bring their kids (10 and under including infants) into rated R movies at night. There is nothing more annoying than that.

When I went to see The Matrix Reloaded, I had this 10 year old girl (if that) sitting right behind me with her mom and she wouldn't shut up. She kept asking questions about every goddamned scene in the movie every three seconds, loud enough so that four rows of seats in every possible direction could hear her loud mouth. At the same time, some fat weasle with her monster-sized baby let the baby scream for at least 20 minutes until an usher came and debated with her for 10 minutes about why she should leave and get the kid to quit crying.

There is no civility, no civilization in America anymore. If you are a civilized person, all you encounter is a loud mob whenever you go into public businesses like movies and restaurants.

JK

corplinx

9th June 2003, 06:50 PM

Don't get me started on movie theatres.

corplinx

9th June 2003, 06:56 PM

It's the same issue at movie theatres. Well off surburban teen and pre-teens terrorize the place. And yes, I'm the jerk who tells them to shut up. These teens should _know better_. One of their moms buys a roll of rated R tickets early in the day and then they all get dropped off without supervision.

Its like these teens have watch the loud talking/cell phone answering/jackasses/yelling at the screen/crowd and figure that if they can do it, why not us.

How about a few adult only movie theatres that show films and not porno.

JAR

9th June 2003, 07:01 PM

Yeah, I know what you mean Corplinx. My aunt brought her daughter, who was a little kid about 2 years old, I think, with her to a restaurant one time, and her daughter cried loud and ran around and under the table, and I thought to myself, "Is this really worth it?"

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
It's the same issue at movie theatres. Well off surburban teen and pre-teens terrorize the place. And yes, I'm the jerk who tells them to shut up. These teens should _know better_. One of their moms buys a roll of rated R tickets early in the day and then they all get dropped off without supervision.

Its like these teens have watch the loud talking/cell phone answering/jackasses/yelling at the screen/crowd and figure that if they can do it, why not us.

How about a few adult only movie theatres that show films and not porno.

The parents drop those kids off because the movie theatres have paid security (at least the ones where I live do).

Funny though that the 'security' folks don't patrol the inside of the theatre when the movie is playing.

It is a mob, an angry, undisciplined mob. Any parent who drags their kid to a rated R movie at night because they are too cheap to pay for a baby sitter is really pathetic. You can't take a chick out on a date anymore to these places unless you want her to experience a "Planet of the Apes" type atmosphere.

JK

JAR

9th June 2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
Its like these teens have watch the loud talking/cell phone answering/jackasses/yelling at the screen/crowd and figure that if they can do it, why not us.

How about a few adult only movie theatres that show films and not porno.
Yeah some middle school kids and high schoolers are wierd. They like to walk around town or driving in a car yelling wierd things, laughing a lot and intentionally drawing a lot of attention to themselves.

corplinx

9th June 2003, 07:06 PM

And just think, they get a tax credit so they'll have more money to take their tot to your favorite Italian place.

Its impossible to savor the taste of food in that environment.

JAR

9th June 2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
It is a mob, an angry, undisciplined mob. Any parent who drags their kid to a rated R movie at night because they are too cheap to pay for a baby sitter is really pathetic. You can't take a chick out on a date anymore to these places unless you want her to experience a "Planet of the Apes" type atmosphere.

JK
lol

corplinx

9th June 2003, 07:08 PM

the way I answer "smoking or non?":

no smoking and no screaming kids please

JAR

9th June 2003, 07:09 PM

Corplinx, I like the way you titled this thread, "the fall of western civilization."

Its a huge overstatement.

KelvinG

9th June 2003, 07:12 PM

I often take a ferry from Vancouver to Vancouver Island which is about a hour and a half trip.
I used to go up to the passenger level after I parked my car on the car deck, but there was always so many damn kids running around screaming and generally raising hell. And most parents seemed entirely disinterested in keeping their brats in check.
So, I now just stay in my car below and sleep.

Can't a law be passed that requires all parents to sedate their kids on any trip that lasts more than 15 minutes.

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by JAR

lol

It is hard enough finding non-contaminated non-feminist women to date, let alone dragging them out into a "Lord of the Flies" scenario with every restaurant and movie house you go to.

lol

JK

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by KelvinG
Can't a law be passed that requires all parents to sedate their kids on any trip that lasts more than 15 minutes.

Thorazine, per chance?

JK

KelvinG

9th June 2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Thorazine, per chance?

JK

Whatever works!

Globert

9th June 2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Thorazine, per chance?

JK

Personally I favor benadryl, (it also gets prescribed to pediatrics far more than thorazine.):D

Globert

9th June 2003, 07:40 PM

As far as leaving the monkeys at the zoo (I mean children at the mall):)
It is simply the abject failure of the leftist "village" raising the child.

Though I suppose If we only had Universal Health Care all the little monsters could have their Prozac/Valium/Thorazine/Haldol ADHD cocktails courtesy of the state.

corplinx

9th June 2003, 07:41 PM

The northwest flight attendant who sedated some little monster on a flight is a national hero. She is the first of what I hope will be many "civility vigiliantes".

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
The northwest flight attendant who sedated some little monster on a flight is a national hero. She is the first of what I hope will be many "civility vigiliantes".

There is a great book written by Stephen L. Carter titled "Civility". Read that if you get a chance. He delves into everything--from talk radio to schools. It is an accurate assessment of the deterioration of society.

What is happening, and I agree with Carter, is that people are functioning based upon what the courts tell them to do, not the informal rules of the past..ie, respecting others etc. People no longer concern themselves with the norms of civility that past citizens perpetuated, usually through their families.

JK

Gem

9th June 2003, 08:29 PM

You can't take a chick out on a date anymore to these places unless you want her to experience a "Planet of the Apes" type atmosphere.

Keep your dirty motherly paws off me! Ma'am!:D

I guess I'm quite lucky these type of things don't happen to me. Though I have to say that a kid screaming and wailing in an airplane is unavoidable, because the kid has to go with his/her mother.

But in theaters and restaurants, they should hire Indiana Jones from "The Last Crusade." Indy was posing as a flight attendant (in those big zepplins) in Germany. Since he Nazi officer spoted his father and was about to sound the alarm, Indy punched him in the face and threw him out the window. When people looked at him, he said "No ticket" and everyone suddenly showed him their tickets.:p

THAT's the kind of people we need to keep the mob in check.

Gem

9th June 2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
I am speaking, of people who bring their infants and toddlers to restaurants. Get a damn sitter or stay the hell at home!

Heh, if there weren't, it would TRULY be the fall of western civilization, Corps.

But, I rarely seem to have trouble with small children, dunno.

Jedi Knight

9th June 2003, 11:21 PM

Jon_in_london

9th June 2003, 11:46 PM

Fortunately the good old British pub has laws forbidding chldren in bars. :D

I dont go to cinemas anymore. Its like sitting on an airliner without the benefit of going anywhere.

My particular bugbear regarding kids is museums. Its virtually impossible to visit a museum here with al the kids shrieking around. It completely ruins the experience. IMO, they should have two or three days a week where children under 16 are absolutely forbidden from all museums, and two or three children days when any adult going there knows what to expect!

Graham

10th June 2003, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by Gem

Keep your dirty motherly paws off me! Ma'am!:D

I guess I'm quite lucky these type of things don't happen to me. Though I have to say that a kid screaming and wailing in an airplane is unavoidable, because the kid has to go with his/her mother.

But in theaters and restaurants, they should hire Indiana Jones from "The Last Crusade." Indy was posing as a flight attendant (in those big zepplins) in Germany. Since he Nazi officer spoted his father and was about to sound the alarm, Indy punched him in the face and threw him out the window. When people looked at him, he said "No ticket" and everyone suddenly showed him their tickets.:p

THAT's the kind of people we need to keep the mob in check.

Gem

Actually, I think this brings up a good point. It used to be that the ushers in a cinema kept order, you know? They used to tell people to shut up and sit down and flash their torches on them, neatly spotlighting them for everyone to ridicule. And they used to wear those uniforms that made them look llike bandsmen. Now all you get for ushers are spoty teens in sweaty polo shirts who can hardly bring themselves to look at you as they wave vaguely in the direction of your seat.

As far as kids in restaraunts go, that's one of my pet hates. As a parent of four, it's pretty rare that I actually get the time and the money together to go out to a nice place. It really sucks to then have to spend that time and money listening to a bunch of badly behaved kids - I can get that at home people :mad:

The worst part is you can't even tell the little bas****s to shut the f*** up.

Graham

Frostbite

10th June 2003, 06:08 AM

Kids suck. They should all be institutionalized til they're 21.

c0rbin

10th June 2003, 06:26 AM

I realize I am baiting the trolling that is going on here, but Corplinx, do you have any children?

crocodile deathroll

10th June 2003, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Frostbite
Kids suck. They should all be institutionalized til they're 21.

Do not forget that you were a kid yourself once. I remember I was, and was a procotious little a**hole!

MRC_Hans

10th June 2003, 07:06 AM

I dont mind kids at restaurants, I just mind noisy, unruly kids at restaurants. I cant imagine why people can't tell them to be quiet, at least reasonably quiet. My own kids, when they were kids, could sit down and enjoy the meal. Of course kids are rarely patient enough to sit through a three-hour gourmet meal, but then you have to do without that. The important thing is that they learn to behave well when out among people, how else are they gonna know when they grow up?

Hans

Shane Costello

10th June 2003, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Graham:
As far as kids in restaraunts go, that's one of my pet hates. As a parent of four, it's pretty rare that I actually get the time and the money together to go out to a nice place. It really sucks to then have to spend that time and money listening to a bunch of badly behaved kids - I can get that at home people

The worst part is you can't even tell the little bas****s to shut the f*** up.

Graham

Kids in cinemas, kids in restaraunts?

Not nearly half as bad as KIDS IN BARS! :mad:

So wrong for so many reasons.

(Not an insubstantial problem in this part of the world, in case anyone is wondering.)

Graham

10th June 2003, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Shane Costello

Kids in cinemas, kids in restaraunts?

Not nearly half as bad as KIDS IN BARS! :mad:

So wrong for so many reasons.

(Not an insubstantial problem in this part of the world, in case anyone is wondering.)

I agree. What kind of society needs signs in bars that say "No unaccompanied children after 7pm"?

Who sees those signs and thinks "Oh, I must remember to pick the kids up from the pub at 6.30"?

Selfishly though, I mostly hate to see kids in bars because that means there's absolutely nowhere you can go to get some peace!

Graham

Cain

10th June 2003, 07:32 AM

You guys, you guys, you guys, don't worry:

Your wish is the free-market's command; soon theaters, restaurants, and other places of business will magically pop up and cater to all your entertainment and dining needs.

Frank Newgent

10th June 2003, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
When I went to see The Matrix Reloaded, I had this 10 year old girl (if that) sitting right behind me with her mom and she wouldn't shut up.
I don't blame them at all for the screaming and crying. After all, they'll be the ones paying for your goddamned Matrix (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/).

Jedi Knight

10th June 2003, 09:04 AM

Gem

10th June 2003, 11:46 AM

Hey Gem, are you from the US? male/female? Age?

Are you trying to date me, JK?

Gem

corplinx

10th June 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by c0rbin
I realize I am baiting the trolling that is going on here, but Corplinx, do you have any children?

Not yet, the wife keeps trying to convince me that its a good idea. I just take her out to eat and point at some screaming kid and say "you want one of those?".

c0rbin

10th June 2003, 01:16 PM

Not yet, the wife keeps trying to convince me that its a good idea. I just take her out to eat and point at some screaming kid and say "you want one of those?".

Nothing will melt your heart like the first time "one of those" who is one of yours smiles at you.

Hope you get to expirience it sometime in your life.

DavidJames

10th June 2003, 01:30 PM

"Nothing will melt your heart like the first time "one of those" who is one of yours smiles at you.

Hope you get to expirience it sometime in your life."

I agree, but to those who have expressed such negative emotion towards kids, please don't have any until you've learned to control those emotions.

There has been no experience in my life that has humbled me as much as my kids. If you are unable to keep your ego in check, unable to release your need for control and unable to give unconditionally without a response (at least initially), then leave child rearing to those who can.

I believe you can have a fulfilling life, contribute to society and make "your mark" with out having children. Have kids because you want to, not because you feel pressured or that's it's required of you.

Malachi151

10th June 2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
I am speaking, of people who bring their infants and toddlers to restaurants. Get a damn sitter or stay the hell at home!

It used to be, only certain parts of our society did this sort of thing. You would see an immigrant family from a country that doesn't have western social graces or a minority family who is historically disenfranchised and wasn't taught how to tip or to get a sitter. The problem is now people whose families have lived in the west for generations are "forgetting" their good western manners.

I think not being able to go to a restaurant at dinner time without hearing wailing children is the the beginning of the end. My wife and I both feel like going postal when you hear loud toddlers and wailing babies in every direction.

And another thing, don't take your 3 year old to a bar and grill after dark. This is the rudest of the rude. There is nothing like seeing some lady drag her yelling screaming kids into a bar and grill 2 hours after their bedtime.

Look, if you people don't quit this crap its going to be soylent green time, capeche?
Capitalism being what is, I am waiting for restaurants with "no children under 5 permitted" signs to pop up.

Of course this is a product of capitalism :D

You see, now more people work longer hours and have two worker house holds and spend less time with their children. They also have less money to spend on baby sitters, and are less inclined to prepare meals at home so they go out more often, and they have to take their kids cause they can't afford a baby sitter and they want to spend their limited amount of time with their babies.

So, you see, capitalism is the root of all evil ;) hehe

MRC_Hans

11th June 2003, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Frank Newgent

I don't blame them at all for the screaming and crying. After all, they'll be the ones paying for your goddamned Matrix (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/). Mmmm, actually that figure is rising very slowly. Notice all the action is out on the sixth decimal and below. If you can loan money at that rate of interest, I'd suggest you loan all you can! ;)

Hans

Graham

11th June 2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by c0rbin

Nothing will melt your heart like the first time "one of those" who is one of yours smiles at you.

Hope you get to expirience it sometime in your life.

Having kids is great and smiles are the best part

but

As a parent it would be nice to be able to take some time away from my kids without being pestered by someone else's kids.

I don't expect, for instance, that other parents not take their young children out to lunch on a Sunday afternoon or to a matinee showing of a Disney movie or whatever.

If I'm paying for a nice meal (and nice restaraunts are d***ed expensive here) I shouldn't have to eat it to the sounds of "No! I won't! I want to go home!" or whatever.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Graham

RedCoat

11th June 2003, 08:26 AM

It's not just kids in bars and movie theatres, it's everywhere. When I was in college I worked at the mall part-time. (Hey, it paid the bills...) Anyway, it was a great way to see first hand how some people deal with their own children. One of the best:

This woman comes in with her kid, who is roughly 5 or 6. The woman is your ordinary upper-middle class looking mom. While she shops, the kid runs around the store, pulling clothes off of the hangers, knocking stuff over, making noise, generally trying to make a spectacle of himself. Reaction from the mother? None.

As I (and another clerk) pick up the merchandise that this hid is throwing around, the kid runs underneath one of those big round display racks. (You know, the kind that usually hold clearance items and stuff?) Now, the top of this rack is a 1/2" slab of plate glass and it's got probably 200 pounds of clothes hanging on it. We had two of them collapse previously (big mess), so I said to the woman, as politely as possible (we did work on commission, after all),

"Excuse me, ma'am, but your son has run under the sale display. It's not a safe place for him to be, the glass might fall and injure him."

This b**** looks me in the eye and says, "Don't tell me how to raise my kids" and goes right back to what she was doing.

The bad news is that the sale rounder did not collapse.

Some people just suck.

Jedi Knight

11th June 2003, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by DavidJames
There has been no experience in my life that has humbled me as much as my kids. If you are unable to keep your ego in check, unable to release your need for control and unable to give unconditionally without a response (at least initially), then leave child rearing to those who can.

I believe you can have a fulfilling life, contribute to society and make "your mark" with out having children. Have kids because you want to, not because you feel pressured or that's it's required of you.

This isn't the issue. Any couple can pop a kid out. That is not the point of this discussion.

This discussion is about what goes on after the kid(s) are popped out. After kids are popped out you don't throw them a tiger-skin to wear and a wedge of Wooly Mammoth meat roasted on an open campfire and think that is the last thing you have to contribute to them.

It is the parent's responsibility to raise these kids right. Kids need to be raised so that they respect the rights of other people. The world doesn't evolve around you and your kids in a public setting.

America has culture. Culture is history. That is what culture is. Culture is teaching kids manners, respect and the importance not to be undisciplined cultural terrorists when they are in public. It is part of being a parent to keep your kids in check and that is not a stranger's job.

People that go to the movies don't pay $10.00 per ticket to listen to someone else's brat. They also don't do to the movies at night to rated R films to listen to a 4 month old screaming baby that should be home in bed. No, people do not go to the movies to deal with that crap.

People go to the movies as part of their leisure time, to take a break, not to involve themselves in the disfunctional families of other people. If people can't control the brats they spawn, don't take them in public to terrorize normal citizens.

JK

Tricky

11th June 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
People go to the movies as part of their leisure time, to take a break, not to involve themselves in the disfunctional families of other people. If people can't control the brats they spawn, don't take them in public to terrorize normal citizens.

You are "terrorized" by little kids? My goodness, Jedi, I had no idea you were so faint-hearted. Did the waiter terrorize you with bad service too? Did the terrorist chef overcook your steak? Let's face it Jedi. You had better not go to a restaurant with all those terrorists out there.

Jedi Knight

11th June 2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Tricky

You are "terrorized" by little kids? My goodness, Jedi, I had no idea you were so faint-hearted. Did the waiter terrorize you with bad service too? Did the terrorist chef overcook your steak? Let's face it Jedi. You had better not go to a restaurant with all those terrorists out there.

Yes, documenting the fall of American and Western Civilization is painful and heartwrenching.

JK