Presidential Primaries -- too soon to discuss? Nah

[hgc]

For political junkies only: Let's talk about your favorites. If I left anyone off the list, then by all means let us know. If you're rooting for one party, then who scares the bejeesus out of you from the other party?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack
E. Bayh
J. Biden
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold

Reps
J. McCain
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman

[Darth Rotor]

For political junkies only: Let's talk about your favorites. If I left anyone off the list, then by all means let us know. If you're rooting for one party, then who scares the bejeesus out of you from the other party?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack
E. Bayh
J. Biden
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold

Reps
J. McCain
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
You forgot Pat Buchanan, David Duke, Ross Perot, Jessie Ventura, and Alfred E. Newman.

DR

[FreeChile]

You forgot Powell. Attacking Bush like that today. It looks like he's ready to run.

[hgc]

You forgot Powell. Attacking Bush like that today. It looks like he's ready to run.
Yes. And I left off Rice too. They're both players.

[slingblade]

I tend to vote Dem, though I register as unaffiliated. But I like McCain. If he's nom'd, he gets my vote, regardless of who else is running.

As usual, the Dems don't give me a lot to choose from. Gore or Edwards, I suppose, preferably Edwards. If McCain doesn't get the nom.

Hiliary....distant maybe. I need to do more reading on her. I'm certainly not voting for her just because she's a woman. It has to be the right woman.

ETA: who scares the bejeezus out of me? Gingrich. Absolutely.

[G-K-4]

Dems
R. Feingold -- Easy choice. If he lasts long enough in the primaries, I think I'll vote for him.

If you're rooting for one party, then who scares the bejeesus out of you from the other party?
I'll give you more than one from each party, free of charge.

Dems
H. Clinton -- Conservative and pandering. Pass. (But it would be funny to say "Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton" at the end of the list of Presidents. And it would be even better if her successor was someone name Rahrara!)
W. Clark -- Probably the closest on your Democrat list to giving me the creeps.

Reps
G. Pataki -- Probably the least offensive. Maybe.

J. McCain -- Don't like him, but he might be a different kind of Republican. However, Kevin Phillips has pointed out that McCain is courting the Christian Right.
R. Giuliani -- He really gives me the creeps. I echo Le Tigre's musical sentiments.
G. Allen -- Yikes!
S. Brownback -- Triple yikes!!!
M. Huckabee -- Can't remember much, but I know it isn't good.
M. Romney -- I usually find New England Republicans more reasonable. But Romney is a Utahn. 'Nuff said. (Et j'aime parler francais, merci beaucoup.)
N. Gingrich -- That guy's still around?

[Azure]

You forgot Powell. Attacking Bush like that today. It looks like he's ready to run.

Where?

That I got to see.

[Polaris]

Considering the primaries have a nasty habit of ensuring the most radical on the ticket becomes the candidate, we'll have the wonderful choice of Hillary vs. Newt in 08.

I think it's time to brush up on my French.

[Kopji]

I don't see any clear candidates I'd vote for yet. Plenty to vote against.

McCain is a clever politician. He might warrant his own thread closer to the election if he runs. He recognizes he lost because he did not kiss the religious right's ass a little more. So he's puckering up now, but it is easy to do so and does not matter much at this point. He seems insincere.

Something to watch would be his reaction to an Arizona initiative to define marriage in a way that would eliminate existing partner benefits for public employees in Arizona who were not married by the strict definition. If he hangs his hat on that he's a dangerous fundy of a far worse sort than Bush.

[Kopji]

R. Giuliani makes me queasy to think he might be in a position of power. A ticket of he & Jeb Bush falls into a very small category I call "worse than this".

[BPSCG]

You forgot Nixon. Yeah, he's dead, but he's been in worse spots than this.

Nixon in '08! Tanned, rested, and ready!
And don't forget General Zod (http://www.zod2008.com/).
And Christopher ("This Country Needs More Cowbell") Walken (http://www.walken2008.com/).

[Darth Rotor]

Yes. And I left off Rice too. They're both players.
How is Colin Powell a player for the presidency? He is tarred with the brush of the Iraq war via his UN brief. His resignation can be easily characterized as self preservation, rather than a matter of principle, by any political opponent, irrespective of his real motivations.

He demured in 1996 for good reasons, and I think his "Q" factor is at an all time low. I doubt he's got the stomach to dig into that mess. If he did, he'd have fought Rumsfeld harder, and smarter, and not gotten whacked in the process.

General Powell will, as MacArthur so infamously quipped, fade away. I have great admiration for him, but I don't think partisan politics is his forte: service to his country is. Sadly, the former is more important than the latter in a presidential race.

DR

[hgc]

How is Colin Powell a player for the presidency? He is tarred with the brush of the Iraq war via his UN brief. His resignation can be easily characterized as self preservation, rather than a matter of principle, by any political opponent, irrespective of his real motivations.

He demured in 1996 for good reasons, and I think his "Q" factor is at an all time low. I doubt he's got the stomach to dig into that mess. If he did, he'd have fought Rumsfeld harder, and smarter, and not gotten whacked in the process.

General Powell will, as MacArthur so infamously quipped, fade away. I have great admiration for him, but I don't think partisan politics is his forte: service to his country is. Sadly, the former is more important than the latter in a presidential race.

DRYeah, he's more of a player in this discussion than he is in the actual race. Mostly because he never will actually run. If he wanted to be president he knew in 2000 and still knows that it was his best opportunity. On the other hand, if he hypothetically decided to run, he'd be a strong contender -- though he'd have the same problem Giuliani's going to have: too liberal. McCain is overcoming his liberal credentials by selling out to Jerry Falwell.

[Dave1001]

If I left anyone off the list, then by all means let us know.

Michael Bloomberg. He's done a fantastic job with NYC. For the most part, he approaches governing like a rational empiricist should: he does what's best, rather than what satisfies some weird fundy or special interest principle.

I hope he runs for the Democrat nomination, rather than as an independent, because I actually think he could win the Democrat nomination.

Also Jeb Bush, as a Republican. Overall, Dubya hasn't done an awful job governing. Since 9/11, there have been no more attacks, and the economy has actually done well overall. Florida's economy has done great, one of the best in the country. I dislike his stance on stem cell research, but on balance I think he would protect what I care about most: economic growth.

[Dr Adequate]

Another Bush? Well, it would save money on bumper stickers.

[Rob Lister]

Another Bush? Well, it would save money on bumper stickers.

Yea.

Hey, how have those stickers worked out for you so far?

[Darat]

Do we need to bring back the sub-forum again?

[BPSCG]

Do we need to bring back the sub-forum again?Not yet. You'll know it's time when you see three simultaneous threads about Hillary having killed Vince Foster and another two about McCain being Pat Robertson's gay lover.

[Dr Adequate]

Yea.

Hey, how have those stickers worked out for you so far? Er ... what?

I hope you know what you mean, 'cos that'll make one of us.

[corplinx]

I was hoping Bredesen of Tennessee would throw his hat into the democrat race. However, hes had health problems and looks like this political future will never rise above the state level. Health too bad for pres, not an ex insider like cheney to pick up a VP despite a bad ticker.

[hgc]

Well, one more election down, and time to kickstart this discussion. Newly added names are in italics. Don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out candidates are struckthrough. Declared candidates are indicated with a dot.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold

Reps
J. McCain
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[Upchurch]

What about B. Obama?

[hgc]

What about B. Obama?
Ah, good point. I'll add him in the next update. Consider him a contendah.

[Regnad Kcin]

J. Bush?

[Lurker]

Obama may run but I don't really give him much of a chance to win the nomination but he would be a good choice for VP.

Lurker

[wastepanel]

Obama may run but I don't really give him much of a chance to win the nomination but he would be a good choice for VP.

Lurker

That's what Mrs. Clinton is hoping for at least. She's already tried to coral him into her Vice President candidate.

Obama has some nice rep right now, and will be making his decision in the next few weeks. I could see him as a MAJOR player in the next primary.

[Ryokan]

I always liked Wesley Clark. But then, he used to be my boss.

But I'm not American, so I don't really count.

[Pardalis]

What about O. Winfrey?

[Regnad Kcin]

P. Paulsen?

[shemp]

L.L. Bean?
J. Crew?
T. Rex?
C.F. Larsen?
Planet X.?

[Regnad Kcin]

C. Rice?

[Dave1001]

That's what Mrs. Clinton is hoping for at least. She's already tried to coral him into her Vice President candidate.

Obama has some nice rep right now, and will be making his decision in the next few weeks. I could see him as a MAJOR player in the next primary.

No she isn't. No way Obama and Clinton would choose each other to be their running mate. It doesn't make sense. Only republicans tend to salivate about that fantasy pairing.

[Dave1001]

Well, one more election down, and time to kickstart this discussion. Newly added names are in italics. Don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out candidates are struckthrough. Declared candidates are indicated with a dot.


Why do you consistently leave Obama off the list? He's not a serious contender, but then neither are a lot of the other names.

[Darth Rotor]

I always liked Wesley Clark. But then, he used to be my boss.

But I'm not American, so I don't really count.
The guys who I know who worked at SHAPE/SACEUR had this to say about General Clark:

"I would not vote for him for dog catcher."

He was an improvement on Joulwan, IMO.

DR

[hgc]

Why do you consistently leave Obama off the list? He's not a serious contender, but then neither are a lot of the other names.
No, who's to say who's a serious contender (except for Hillary for sure)? When I made the list in early Sept I just didn't think Obama was interested. Now that he's publicy flirting with the idea, I should have put him on the updated list, but forgot.

[daredelvis]

Why do you consistently leave Obama off the list? He's not a serious contender, but then neither are a lot of the other names.

Have you heard the guy speak? Man, it would be nice to have a president that can talk like Obama (if not Obama). Also, imagine what it would be like to have someone in that office who wrote a book, as opposed to someone who has his people claim that he has read The Stranger.

Daredelvis

[shemp]

B. Bunny?
D. Duck?
P. Pig?
E. Fudd?
R. Runner?
W. Coyote?

(P. lePew is disqualified as a foreigner.)

[hgc]

B. Bunny?
D. Duck?
P. Pig?
E. Fudd?
R. Runner?
W. Coyote?

(P. lePew is disqualified as a foreigner.)
W. Woodpecker?
B. Boop?
O. Oyl?
R. Hoek?
B. Moose?
and of course... R. Racer!

[hgc]

C. Rice?
Really? I think there's a Macaca's chance in Senate she'll run.

[billydkid]

did somebody add Obama to the list?

[Darth Rotor]

did somebody add Obama to the list?
What's he ever done? Is he a leader, or a decently electable front man? What's he ever risked?

We've had two frontmen in a row: Clinton and Bush. Why go for three?

DR

[bob_kark]

What's he ever done? Is he a leader, or a decently electable front man? What's he ever risked?

DR
You're right. He sounds perfect!

[hgc]

OK, Obama's added and McCain is as good as declared, as far as I'm concerned.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2644481&page=1

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[WildCat]

What's he ever done?
Whatever Dick Durbin tells him to.

[slingblade]

I changed my mind about McCain.

[shemp]

A.A. Meeting?
B.B. King?
C.C. Ryder?
D.D. Ramone?
e e cummings?
G.G. Allin?
J.J. Walker?
L.L. Cool J.?
S.S. Minnow?
T.T. the Bear's?
Z.Z. Top?

[hgc]

PDQ Bach

[shemp]

J.R. Ewing?

[Foolmewunz]

I like adding someone just to strikethrough (Li'l Ricky Santorum).

As to J. Kerry, The general rule in politics is "follow the money". Check out the Kerry website. They raised 14 million and got involved in over 250 local campaigns. That's a whole lot of IOU's to call in, and the organization is in place and accustomed to campaigning.

Did Kerry hurt himself with the Democrats with his botched joke? Probably not the core primary voters, IMHO.

Oh, I don't think he'll win the nomination, but stranger revivals have happened in American politics. In terms of who the players are going to be during the primaries, I think he'll be there, at least through the early running. Iowa is taken by party loyalty and money. He'll have both. (Unless they field a favorite son by some chance.) New Hampshire is his backyard.... So, in the winter of '08, I expect to see Kerry right up there. (And not coincidentally, he put in personal visits to Iowa and NH in the last month of the mid-term campaigns.)

I think Kerry's still in it. His website is playing up the money they raised and the candidates they threw support to. He was also all over the country during this campaign. These are the kinds of debts that pay off when local primaries come along. If you look at the people and organizations they supported with their time and cash, there are a whole lot of names in the early primary states. Am I cynical? Sure. But politics is a business that calls out for cynicism.

http://www.johnkerry.com/

[Regnad Kcin]

A.A. Meeting?A.A. Milne

[Regnad Kcin]

A.A. Meeting?
B.B. King?
C.C. Ryder?
D.D. Ramone?
e e cummings?
G.G. Allin?
J.J. Walker?
L.L. Cool J.?
S.S. Minnow?
T.T. the Bear's?
Z.Z. Top?P.P. Longstocking?

[peptoabysmal]

What about B. Obama?
Right up there next to E. Coli
:D

[Renfield]

Favorite is Feingold.

Hillary has actually been polling better though and she has piles of money. I'm guessing its going to be another Clinton running for president soon. name recognition seems more important then ever these days as well, so the Clinton name gives her another big advantage.

[Dave1001]

People want to ignore the blaringly obvious in the dem field, cause it makes things dull. It's pretty obvious to me that Vilsack or Richardson is going to get the nomination.

My money on the dem ticket is Richardson at the top. He could probably deliver New Mexico (at the least) plus hold all the blue states. Hard to see who the best veep would be for him at this stage. The most obvious choice would be a sitting swing state Senator with foreign policy experience.

[hgc]

Favorite is Feingold.
So sorry to have to tell you, Feingold is out. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=529983

New list

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[President Bush]

Biden/Bayh vs McCain/Hagel. Dems lose.

[RandFan]

I just can't see how the Dem's can lose. The momentum is in their favor. The electorate clearly wants a change of direction.

[hgc]

Biden/Bayh vs McCain/Hagel. Dems lose.
Are you predicting that Biden will be the nominee, or just that if those 2 tickets match up, McCain wins? I can't see how Biden takes it. I believe it's Hillary's for the taking, and if she declines, it'll be Edwards or Gore or Clark or Richardson. Just some way-out-front guessing.

[Pardalis]

Biden/Bayh vs McCain/Hagel. Dems lose.

I just can't see how the Dem's can lose. The momentum is in their favor. The electorate clearly wants a change of direction.

I sure hope the Dems win, it's time for the Republicans to take a break and rethink what they've done. Time to reboot.

The Dems do seem to have the momentum, I hope it will last til the elections.

[RandFan]

I sure hope the Dems win, it's time for the Republicans to take a break and rethink what they've done. Time to reboot. I agree. I think such change is very good for our country. I think we are a better nation because of an adversarial political system and not in-spite of it.

[President Bush]

Are you predicting that Biden will be the nominee, or just that if those 2 tickets match up, McCain wins? I can't see how Biden takes it. I believe it's Hillary's for the taking, and if she declines, it'll be Edwards or Gore or Clark or Richardson. Just some way-out-front guessing.
Who knows? Just guessing. Clinton doesn't seem likeable enough to win anything.

If it does come down to likeability, Richardson should take it.

[rdaneel]

Clinton doesn't seem likeable enough to win anything.That's the impression I get too. I've seen plenty of comments from the liberal readers on Huff/post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/) who are afraid Hillary is going to be "anointed" and crammed down their throats.

[EvilSmurf]

Don't forget former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel) has announced his candidacy too. He's the longest of longshots, but he's there.

I'm seeing too many Senators and not enough Governors on both lists, remember that the US has not elected a Senator to the position of President since Lyndon Johnson.

[hgc]

Updating to reflect Biden's statement of intent yesterday. Looks like Richardson won't be far behind, but I'll save his dot for when he says something more definitive.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[New Ager]

(RandFan)

I just can't see how the Dem's can lose.

(New Ager)

Hillary will probably be the nominee, that's how.

(RF)

The momentum is in their favor. The electorate clearly wants a change of direction.

(New Ager)

There are a lot of reasons for the recent election results. Saying they want a change is not only incorrect, it's just a lazy understanding of politics in America.

[hgc]

It's Giuliani time!

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[New Ager]

I agree. I think such change is very good for our country. I think we are a better nation because of an adversarial political system and not in-spite of it.

LOL!! We're better because we fight?!? No way. Nothing ever gets done and the fighting is mostly for power, not for principles.

Conservatism would run our country in a good and positive way. Liberalism just gets in the way and screws everything up.

(PB)

If it does come down to likeability, Richardson should take it.

(New Ager)

But, he's boring and has no personality. He's a longshot.

[Luke T.]

Why is Mark Warner lined out on the list? He is my best guess for the Democrat nominee.

I believe McCain will be the Republican nominee.

No way Hillary will be on the Democratic ticket. Her star began to fall the day of the elections.

As for which candidate of the other party scares me the most, that would be Clark. I think he's dumber than Bush, if that's possible.

[Luke T.]

I would rule out Kerry, but not because of recent events. I would also line out Gore. No chance. But Gore will be an excellent campaign stumper for someone. But he will probably back the wrong horse.

And I think Obama is going to make a major faux pas in the near future. Reveal some hidden dark streak. There's something about him that just gives me that feeling about him.

[Luke T.]

Here's why Gore has no chance. He has a choice of two campaign slogans. The first, "I Wouldn't Have Invaded Iraq!" and lots of lame jokes about being the President-elect already.

The second, "The Sky is Falling!" is too doom and gloom, even if true.

[hgc]

Why is Mark Warner lined out on the list? He is my best guess for the Democrat nominee.
He bailed out a couple months ago.

[RandFan]

LOL!! We're better because we fight?!? No way. Nothing ever gets done and the fighting is mostly for power, not for principles. Damn straight!

According to the UN the United States is ranked 8th in Human Development Index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index) and that is for a country of 50 states and 300 million people. We are arguably the worlds only super power. We are the only nation that has sent humans to the moon. We have produced and invented technology that has allowed us to eradicate many diseases, grow an unprecedented amount of food, created the personal computer, split the atom, maped the human genome and taken pictures of our universe that at one time was considered impossible. The list of accomplishments could go on for pages because of and not inspite of our government.

This to you is the equivalent of getting nothing done? Are you serious?

There is no such thing as utopia. Could we do better? Sure. But come on.

[Kopji]

Obama spoke in Arizona before midterms. Take some time to watch him on TV if you get a chance. He's very charismatic and sharp. My guess he would be more a potential VP candidate for now.

What's the rest of Bush's family up to? I was worried for a while that Jeb would want to run.

I think McCain's weakness will not be so much that he can be portrayed as a right wing fundy, but as someone who will compromise principles for power. If he announces, expect a storm a-brewin from his home state. We have mudballs, and are off to make more mud.

[steverino]

Just my opinion, but I do not think at this time in history America would elect a Jewish president. Middle America will think that candidate will be biased toward Israel and sneaky in general. As a Jew, this is the woo I feel.

I also think the next president will have a military background. When it comes down to presidential debates, such things as Iran, North Korea, and nukes will come up. People will "like Gulianni" types, but will be frightened last minute and vote for a McCain, Powell, someone moderate, but with military creds. I do not know if Hillary would settle for VP.
Richardson has the Hispanic appeal meaning he might be trusted to hash out immigration issues, and for a Dem has a red state appeal, but is an aristocrat, and has fibbed about a few things.

I have been accused of being a know-it-all on this forum, and of course I am just guessing here. So this is a guess and just what I think.

[Dave1001]

Here's why Gore has no chance. He has a choice of two campaign slogans. The first, "I Wouldn't Have Invaded Iraq!" and lots of lame jokes about being the President-elect already.

The second, "The Sky is Falling!" is too doom and gloom, even if true.

I think Gore would have a strong chance. He represents a "do over" opportunity for the American public.

[Darth Rotor]

As for which candidate of the other party scares me the most, that would be Clark. I think he's dumber than Bush, if that's possible.
Wesley Clark is an order of magnitude smarter than GW Bush. That doesn't make him any better suited as president necessarily, but one thing General Clarke is, all shortcomings considered, is smart. He is also reasonably articulate.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

I think Gore would have a strong chance. He represents a "do over" opportunity for the American public.
He ought to hire Thomas Friedman to do his some of his issues writing.

Friedman has gone off on a "Green is manly" jag lately, and is making some good sense, tucked in between all of his platitudes.

DR

[steverino]

I think Gore would have a strong chance. He represents a "do over" opportunity for the American public.

Ever consider dating an old girlfriend again because nothing new seems to be working for either of you? Then you both start bickering and respectfully remember why the break-up was for the best?

[EvilSmurf]

As for which candidate of the other party scares me the most, that would be Clark. I think he's dumber than Bush, if that's possible.

You're obviously not aware that Wesley Clark is a Rhodes Scholar, with a Masters in Economics from Oxford.

[steverino]

You're obviously not aware that Wesley Clark is a Rhodes Scholar, with a Masters in Economics from Oxford.

So is Kris Kristofferson and George Stephanopolus. Fascinating. I didn't realize until now that Clark is half Jewish and half Native American. I guess Michael Moore supported him so he must suck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Rhodes_scholars

[Luke T.]

You're obviously not aware that Wesley Clark is a Rhodes Scholar, with a Masters in Economics from Oxford.

Well, he says dumb things in public. :)

[Luke T.]

I do not know if Hillary would settle for VP.

Stick a fork in Hillary. She's done. No Presidency or Vice Presidency. She will serve in the Senate to the end of her current term in 2012, and then that will be the end of Hillary.

Just my own uneducated guess.

[Luke T.]

Another thing Clark has going against him is that he has never held an elected office.

Yeah. Neither did Eisenhower, but this isn't post-WWII, this is "Iraqi quagmire" season and military generals aren't exactly folk heroes, even if they do come down on the side of the anti-war crowd. They make nice mouthpieces, though. "Hey, General So-and-So even says we should get out of Iraq!"

[Luke T.]

He bailed out a couple months ago.

I did not know that.

Guess I'll have to go with Vilsnak, then, even though I never heard of him until I read this topic. I go with him because he is a Governor and the U.S. prefers Governors to any other kind of candidate for President.

Oh. You left off a token black preacher candidate on the Democratic list.

[hgc]

Oh. You left off a token black preacher candidate on the Democratic list.
Name your favorite. I'll add him the next time.

[Dave1001]

Oh. You left off a token black preacher candidate on the Democratic list.

No longer necessary. In fact it never was. But it's interesting that black professionals are finally taking over the political class in the black community. I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan.

[steverino]

No longer necessary. In fact it never was. But it's interesting that black professionals are finally taking over the political class in the black community. I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan.

William Jennings Bryan was black?

[Luke T.]

No longer necessary. In fact it never was. But it's interesting that black professionals are finally taking over the political class in the black community. I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan.

I seem to recall someone named Pat Robertson running as a Republican candidate in 1988...

[Luke T.]

Name your favorite. I'll add him the next time.

Al Sharpton. I used to hate that guy with a passion, but now he amuses me, and even sometimes sounds good, too. :D

[hgc]

Black minister added by special request ... ;)

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley[/quote]

[Darth Rotor]

I seem to recall someone named Pat Robertson running as a Republican candidate in 1988...
Didn't he get smacked down in the primary?

DR

[Luke T.]

Didn't he get smacked down in the primary?

DR

So did Jesse. And so did Al.

I was just countering the argument that "I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan."

If surviving the primaries is part of that criteria, then no group has fielded preachers over professionals since WJB.

[Darth Rotor]

So did Jesse. And so did Al.
So should they all, all honorable men. ;)

DR

[Dave1001]

I seem to recall someone named Pat Robertson running as a Republican candidate in 1988...

I thought of him. That's why I wrote "seriously fielded". :D

[hgc]

So did Jesse. And so did Al.

I was just countering the argument that "I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan."

If surviving the primaries is part of that criteria, then no group has fielded preachers over professionals since WJB.
Luke, I'm curious about your phrase, "preachers over professionals." Why not just "preachers?" While you're at it, what's GW Bush's profession? Has he been a success at it?

[Dave1001]

So did Jesse. And so did Al.

I was just countering the argument that "I don't think whites or other groups have seriously fielded preachers over professionals since William Jennings Bryan."

If surviving the primaries is part of that criteria, then no group has fielded preachers over professionals since WJB.

There's a huge difference in the success of the political campaigns of Jesse Jackson and Pat Robertson. Jackson was a serious candidate that came close to winning the nomination, and that won a number of primaries.

[Dave1001]

Luke, I'm curious about your phrase, "preachers over professionals." Why not just "preachers?" While you're at it, what's GW Bush's profession? Has he been a success at it?

I'm no GW Bush fan, but he had a professional education (MBA) and worked as a professional (business executive -with some success in the sports field).

That's very different, and I think an improvement, over having preachers running a secular government.

[Darth Rotor]

I'm no GW Bush fan, but he had a professional education (MBA) and worked as a professional (business executive -with some success in the sports field).

That's very different, and I think an improvement, over having preachers running a secular government.
In what denomination(s) were Rev Al and Rev Jesse ordained?

DR

[steverino]

In what denomination(s) were Rev Al and Rev Jesse ordained?

DR

I know this. I know this! I worked for the United Church of Christ church in Chicago called the Chicago Theological Seminary, where Operation Push was born. (As their photographer.) Jesse ALMOST graduated but with a semester to go, was asked (as legend has it) by MLK JR to help with his march in Selma. His son, the Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr., DID get his masters in divinity from the same school. Not to sound patronizing, but he (Jesse Jr.) is very bright and qualified. I have met him a couple times and I think he is cool even though more, you know, liberal, than I am.

[Luke T.]

Luke, I'm curious about your phrase, "preachers over professionals." Why not just "preachers?" While you're at it, what's GW Bush's profession? Has he been a success at it?

The expression "preachers over professionals" originated with Dave1001. You'll have to ask him. I was just quoting him. :)

The way I understood it is that no one has taken preachers seriously as candidates as opposed to professional politicians.

[hgc]

In what denomination(s) were Rev Al and Rev Jesse ordained?

DR
Baptist.

[Dave1001]

The expression "preachers over professionals" originated with Dave1001. You'll have to ask him. I was just quoting him. :)

The way I understood it is that no one has taken preachers seriously as candidates as opposed to professional politicians.

By professional, I mean someone with an education that seems more relevant to a lawmaking/regulating institution which exists for the public's welfare. For example, a lawyer, someone with degrees in public administration or public policy, or more broadly, people with secular management experience and education.

Someone that appeals to the borgiose love of rule by experts as opposed to the desire of conflation of authority that I think is motivating people that want their preacher to be there be all and end all (spiritual counselor, psychologist, investment advisor, political representative, etc.).

[Mycroft]

Another Bush? Well, it would save money on bumper stickers.

Jeb wont run and Prescott won't be old enough until 2012.

[hgc]

Here's a surprise. Tommy Thompson, former Gov of Wisconsin, former Sec of HHS. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS09/61115031/1001/NEWS&lead=1

I've done business in the federal government, and the people I know at HHS hold him in very, very high regard - which is definitely not the standard opinion of cabinet secretaries within civil service ranks (from my limited observation).

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[Darth Rotor]

Here's a surprise. Tommy Thompson, former Gov of Wisconsin, former Sec of HHS. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS09/61115031/1001/NEWS&lead=1

I've done business in the federal government, and the people I know at HHS hold him in very, very high regard - which is definitely not the standard opinion of cabinet secretaries within civil service ranks (from my limited observation).

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
Why is Pat Buchanan not on your list? Has he declared his hands washed of the whole boiling?

DR

[hgc]

Why is Pat Buchanan not on your list? Has he declared his hands washed of the whole boiling?

DR
Hadn't heard any chatter that he might run. He certainly doesn't sound like he'd go back to the Republican fold.

[Luke T.]

Here's a surprise. Tommy Thompson, former Gov of Wisconsin, former Sec of HHS. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS09/61115031/1001/NEWS&lead=1

I've done business in the federal government, and the people I know at HHS hold him in very, very high regard - which is definitely not the standard opinion of cabinet secretaries within civil service ranks (from my limited observation).

How much chance does someone who has not recently held public office have of being elected as Prez?

[Darth Rotor]

Hadn't heard any chatter that he might run. He certainly doesn't sound like he'd go back to the Republican fold.
He ran as an Independent (Reform Party) in 2000. I get the impression he has had more than enough of the Reps, what with his past few years of articles blasting neocons, and a variety of other Big Government Republican actions. IIRC, wasn't he against the Iraq War?

Remember the chads of Florida?
Buchanan spokeswoman Linda Muller said on September 7, 2006 that "PJB is not running" in the 2008 presidential race.[26] A Connecticut-based "Draft Buchanan" campaign, however, wants him on the Republican primary ballot.
Never say never: he is reported to have said in 2004 that he never would run for President again. Hmmmmmmm.

DR

[hgc]

How much chance does someone who has not recently held public office have of being elected as Prez?
Beats me.

[hgc]

Looks like Bill Frist will bow out this afternoon. I'll beat him to the punch here.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[steverino]

I don't think any Republican ticket will be able to beat a Gore/Obama ticket...once they get HER out of the way. Not sure who "they" is.

There IS one Republican who could beat anyone, but he's a friggin' Austrian, and so that's that.

[Darth Rotor]

I don't think any Republican ticket will be able to beat a Gore/Obama ticket...once they get HER out of the way. Not sure who "they" is.

There IS one Republican who could beat anyone, but he's a friggin' Austrian, and so that's that.
CA needs the Governator. I predict that twenty years from now, he'll be looked back on as one of the better governors in the State's history.

DR

[steverino]

CA needs the Governator. I predict that twenty years from now, he'll be looked back on as one of the better governors in the State's history.

DR


Funny you brought this up. The '04 election I lived in Illinois and voted for Bush and Obama. Obama, through a series of flukes, ran against Alan Keyes, and, for those of you who saw "Barat," understand why Keyes was a screwball.

Anyway, so Obama got like 1.6 million votes from Bush voters in Illinois. Now Obama is traveling America selling his book, and (not) running for president. I think Illinois needs Obama and I wish he would just get some legislation passage under his belt for the good of my former state. That is why he got my vote, and all those others.

[hgc]

C. Rice?
Condi will not run, so she says.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2006/11/rice-cheers-on-women-in-politics-rules.html

"I'm very glad that women are running, and women are winning in many places," Rice told TF1 television late Wednesday. "I was at the inauguration of President Johnson-Sirleaf of Liberia and for President Bachelet in Chile."

"But I won't be one of them," she told the channel from the NATO summit in the Latvian capital Riga, adding that she was "an academic at heart."

[Dave1001]

I don't think any Republican ticket will be able to beat a Gore/Obama ticket...once they get HER out of the way. Not sure who "they" is.

There IS one Republican who could beat anyone, but he's a friggin' Austrian, and so that's that.

I think the odds are good for a Gore Obama ticket. Obama wouldn't be the best possible VP for Gore, but Democrats have a tradition in innovating inclusiveness with presidential tickets going back to the Irish Catholic JFK. If the ticket doesn't have two white male christians on it, I think Obama in the VP slot is the most likely diversity to be on the ticket.

[Brown]

Some early feedback about Vilsack: He speaks well. He does his homework, so he knows what he's talking about. He is able to articulate his position and defend it well without angering those who see things differently. He has a good record as governor of Iowa, working well with Republicans and Democrats to achieve consensus. He's a personable man.All of which seem to be points in his favor. But the conventional wisdom is that he does not have a chance. Why? He comes from Iowa, 'nuff said. (Who else came from I-o-way? Herbert Hoover, that's who.) Because he comes from Iowa, all of the other candidates will bypass the Iowa caucuses, ceding the state to Vilsack. Ceding Iowa to Vilsack will cause resentment within his own party, so his own party won't support him. Vilsack is not dynamic. Vilsack's name sounds like "Ballsac."In other words, the damning factors are largely matters of form, and personal substance doesn't count for much. Sadly, this pessimistic attitude may have some practical weight. Many Iowans (of both major parties) have said that Vilsack is basically a good guy and would probably make a good president; but he doesn't have a chance.

That said, it is reasonable for Vilsack not to take these evaluations seriously. When he first ran for governor of Iowa, Vilsack was behind in the polls to Jim Ross Lightfoot, a congressman from Iowa who had a lot of name recognition, plus a lot of experience as a speaker (he was a former radio broadcaster) and a politician. But although he was ahead in the polls, Lightfoot had one serious disadvantage: he was an a**hole.

The campaign for governor had been largely a positive one. Both candidates seemed to be "good guys." But in the last days of the campaign, Lightfoot (still with a sizable lead, albeit a shrinking one) decided unilaterally to go negative. He ran television ads that accused Vilsack of supporting nude dancing. The charges were ridiculous, and virtually every media outlet that looked into them--regardless of political inclination--denounced them as baseless.

Lightfoot's lead evaporated. The electorate held his negative ads against him and elected Vilsack.

In 2002, Vilsack ran on his record, and won re-election.

[steverino]

He ran television ads that accused Vilsack of supporting nude dancing. The charges were ridiculous, and virtually every media outlet that looked into them--regardless of political inclination--denounced them as baseless.

So what you are saying is that Vilsack does NOT support nude dancing?

...So, um, who ELSE is running?;)

[hgc]

He comes from Iowa, 'nuff said. (Who else came from I-o-way? Herbert Hoover, that's who.)
Are you saying that Iowa = Idiots out wandering around? Hmm?

[steverino]

Are you saying that Iowa = Idiots out wandering around? Hmm?

That's just what he is saying. Hey. I know. How about let's list the 50 states based on viability for harvesting viable presidential material. eg:

1) California
2) Massachusetts
3) Illinois
--
--
--etc.
49) New York
50) Iowa-?

[Brown]

Are you saying that Iowa = Idiots out wandering around? Hmm?This is not what I'm saying, myself. But it is very close to how Iowa is viewed by much of the country.

To be fair, many of them are confused, thinking that Iowa is really Ohio.

[steverino]

This is not what I'm saying, myself. But it is very close to how Iowa is viewed by much of the country.

To be fair, many of them are confused, thinking that Iowa is really Ohio.

Many of "them?" You mean to tell me that the average American voter doesn't know Iowa from Ohio? "Martha, jus' where did dey poot dat rock n roll museum? We been in Davenport fur three days now."

Next thing you know folks will start putting pro wrestlers in the governor's mansion.

[hgc]

Iowa is mainly disregarded because it is the setting for this atrocity:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/543456fa09347802.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2899)

[steverino]

Iowa is mainly disregarded because it is the setting for this atrocity:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/543456fa09347802.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2899)

So you are saying we should list the 50 states by the best musicals and choose a president that way?

1) Kansas (Wizard of OZ)
2) Indiana (Gary, music man)
3) Oklahoma
4) Siam
5) Brigadoon
6) The West Side (NY)
7) Brigadoon, Scotland
8) Did I say Oklahoma?

[Brown]

Iowa is mainly disregarded because it is the setting for this atrocity....Ugh. Other "winners" shot (at least partly) in Iowa include "Take This Job and Shove It" starring Robert Hays, "Miles From Home" starring Richard Gere, "F.I.S.T." starring Sylvester Stallone, "Cold Turkey" starring Dick Van Dyke, "Twister" starring Bill Paxton and "The Puppet Masters" starring Donald Sutherland.

Balanced against those duds, however, are "Field of Dreams," shot in Dyersville and Dubuque (where "F.I.S.T." and "Job" were shot), and "The Straight Story," shot in Laurens, West Branch and several other communities in northern Iowa. "Bridges of Madison County," which was boring but otherwise not too bad, was shot in and around Winterset.

"The Music Man" by Iowa native Meredith Willson is set in northern Iowa. (Uniforms from the movie are on display in many businesses in Mason City.)

Private Ryan, title character of the war movie, supposedly came from Paton, Iowa. The scene of the Ryan farm was most assuredly not shot in or near Jefferson County, Iowa, however. (Paton does have a minor claim to fame: The roommate for Greg Morris of "Mission: Impossible" fame, while a student at the University of Iowa, was from Paton. As a result, Morris was very familiar with Paton and surrounding towns.)

The University of Iowa in Iowa City was the site for the exterior shots of the TV show "Coach," although the story was actually set in Minnesota.

Oh, and Cary Grant died in Iowa. In Davenport. Just before a scheduled performance of "An Evening With Cary Grant." Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and "The Big Bopper" (along with pilot Roger Petersen), after giving their final concert at the Surf ballroom in Clear Lake, died when their plane crashed shortly after taking off from Mason City.

But John Wayne was born in Iowa, in Winterset. Johnny Carson was born two counties over, in Corning. The new Superman, Brandon Routh, was born in Des Moines. And Tom Arnold ... well, I've said too much.

I mention this for a reason. It is not unusual for Iowans to encounter a perceived stereotype--especially on the East and West Coasts--that Iowans are hayseeds. Most of them aren't. Yet some of the popular movies help perpetuate this stereotype.

Vilsack doesn't have a blade of grass hanging out of his mouth, he doesn't wear overalls everywhere he goes and he doesn't talk like Larry the Cable Guy.

By the way, I noticed that "The Daily Show" made its first "Vilsack joke." The show had a duck say "Vilsack" instead of "Aflac." That was better than the scrotum-based puns that I suspect would attract most comics today.

[Regnad Kcin]

And James T. Kirk was born in Iowa! Er, will be born there. You know what I mean!

[davefoc]

Usually I'm quite interested in the presidential selection process and tend to root for one person or another. This time I have a new sense of calm. The one thing I am pretty sure about is the winning candidate won't be G. Bush and based on that my thought is that whoever is selected we will be better off.

Here's some odds from a bookmaker
http://www.covers.com/articles/sb_articles.aspx?theArt=772

He sees Giuliani as the Republican front runner and Edwards as the Democratic front runner.

He sees the Dems as the clear cut front runner to win the whole thing.

My own wild ass guess is that Giuliani will be the next president but I don't put the chances of that being right at more than about 15%. His biggest hurdle will be the Republican primaries where he will probably lose.

I also noted that one of my personal favorites, Richardson of New Mexico, didn't make his list.

As to the whole Iowa is confused with Ohio thiing: I never have trouble with that but I'm pretty sure Idaho and Iowa are the same state.

[aerosolben]

Here's some odds from a bookmaker
http://www.covers.com/articles/sb_articles.aspx?theArt=772

He sees Giuliani as the Republican front runner and Edwards as the Democratic front runner.

He sees the Dems as the clear cut front runner to win the whole thing.

It appears that the linked article is over 2 years old.

[davefoc]

It appears that the linked article is over 2 years old.
OK, who was the maroon that linked to that site?

Here's some apparently current odds from sportsbook.com
http://www.sportsbook.com/sportsbook/livelines.php

They're showing George Allen Jr. as the fourth favorite at 10 to 1. that seems ridiculous but what do I know?

[steverino]

Just listening to talk radio, I am starting to think it's gunna be an Obama sweep. Hillary will have to step aside. Gingrich, Romney, even Guiliani would have a tough time debating, not him, but his "charm." McCain will look very gruff in comparison to Obama.

[hgc]

Updating to add Bayh and Brownback to declared status -- they have announced exploratory committees. Bets on who's next?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[Dave1001]

I think Sharpton should be moved to the fun category. To my knowledge he's expressed zero interest in running in '08

[Dave1001]

Just listening to talk radio, I am starting to think it's gunna be an Obama sweep. Hillary will have to step aside. Gingrich, Romney, even Guiliani would have a tough time debating, not him, but his "charm." McCain will look very gruff in comparison to Obama.

Yup. Obama's big danger now is peaking early, Howard Dean/John McCain style. Fortunately, recently Hillary looks like she's trying to make some noise. Perhaps Obama should let her have the headlines until a few months before Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and then sweeps all three.

Although alternatively, he could pull a Gore or W. and try to dominate from the beginning, and then keep dominating straight up through getting the nomination.

[hgc]

I think Sharpton should be moved to the fun category. To my knowledge he's expressed zero interest in running in '08
He's on at Luke's request. Whatever he says, I'll do.

[aerosolben]

Updating to add Bayh and Brownback to declared status -- they have announced exploratory committees. Bets on who's next?
Just a note on your layout: is there any significance to the order in which the potential candidates appear? If not, it might be easier to read if they're grouped by status.

[steverino]

Yup. Obama's big danger now is peaking early,

The irony here is that we Illinoians elected him just two years ago. As a Republican Illinois voter who voted for him, (I just moved out-of-state) I would like to see him govern a little before he considers a promotion.

[davefoc]

I listened to Laurence O'Donnell today on the Al Franken show.

He was explaining why various presidential hopefuls had no hope.

Unfortunately I don't remember his comments very well about the Democratic side but this is what I remember of his comments about the Republican side:

Gingrich and Giuliani were eliminated for various reasons but the most important reason was because they violated the too many wives rule. Apparently two is ok, but three is not acceptable and both Giulianini and Gingritch were on wife number three. I am not sure the three wife rule applies to Democrats. Apparently, Newt served some divorce related papers on her while she was in hospital about to undergo a cancer operation. Both Franken and O'donnell thought that this was tacky.

O'Donnell saw McCain has almost the certain Republican nominee. Too bad if its true. McCain seems to be too old to me and his various moves to sure up his conservative image were kind of bogus I thought.

[steverino]

I listened to Laurence O'Donnell today on the Al Franken show.

He was explaining why various presidential hopefuls had no hope.

Unfortunately I don't remember his comments very well about the Democratic side but this is what I remember of his comments about the Republican side:

Gingrich and Giuliani were eliminated for various reasons but the most important reason was because they violated the too many wives rule. Apparently two is ok, but three is not acceptable and both Giulianini and Gingritch were on wife number three. I am not sure the three wife rule applies to Democrats. Apparently, Newt served some divorce related papers on her while she was in hospital about to undergo a cancer operation. Both Franken and O'donnell thought that this was tacky.

O'Donnell saw McCain has almost the certain Republican nominee. Too bad if its true. McCain seems to be too old to me and his various moves to sure up his conservative image were kind of bogus I thought.

I recall the Gingrich wife cancer story. Plus he always looks like he has a broomstick up his bum. I think the only Republican who could beat Obama or Hillary is the Gubernator, and as we all know he ain't allowed to serve.

[hgc]

Just a note on your layout: is there any significance to the order in which the potential candidates appear? If not, it might be easier to read if they're grouped by status.
No particular order, except that ones added after the OP are at the bottom of each list in order of when they were added.

[hgc]

Apparently, Newt served some divorce related papers on her while she was in hospital about to undergo a cancer operation. Both Franken and O'donnell thought that this was tacky.
Don't forget that while Newt was leading the charge against Clinton's bad morals regarding Lewinsky etc, he was cheating on wife #2 with wife #3, at the time a Congressional employee. I think Ted Haggard has a better chance with evangelical crowd than Newt. They know that Newt is no true believer.

[davefoc]

hgc, what about reordering the candidates by how likely it is they will prevail in their respective primaries?

Wesley Clark was O'Donnell's pick for the most likely Democratic vice presidential candidate, but I think he gave him almost no chance to be the presidential nominee.

And just as an aside, I think it is interesting that in 2000 the country spent hundreds of millions of dollars to select the next president and the result was that probably the worst possible choice was made out of all the possible candidates. It kind of makes you wonder whether this system doesn't have some flaws in it.

[steverino]

I think it is interesting that in 2000 the country spent hundreds of millions of dollars to select the next president and the result was that probably the worst possible choice was made out of all the possible candidates. It kind of makes you wonder whether this system doesn't have some flaws in it.

It sure IS flawed. Hillary will probably spend over a billion to convince us to vote for her.

I do agree with you that it's nuts that both sides of the aisle have to raise millions and we seem to end up with a crappy choice between the lessor of two evils. Like in other areas of the work force in America, life isn't fair and the cream seldom rises to the top:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

[Upchurch]

Ran across this article in the eye doctor's waiting room, fwiw:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546362,00.html

[hgc]

hgc, what about reordering the candidates by how likely it is they will prevail in their respective primaries?
Well, my idea with the list was just to lay out the names without exercising too much judgement as to the likelihood or viability of any candidates (with the exception of crossing out Kerry after l'affaire of the botched joke). That's what all the other posts in this thread are for.

[davefoc]

Well, my idea with the list was just to lay out the names without exercising too much judgement as to the likelihood or viability of any candidates (with the exception of crossing out Kerry after l'affaire of the botched joke). That's what all the other posts in this thread are for.

OK, I'll take an uninformed shot at it.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Edwards
B. Obama
B. Richardson
A. Gore
J. Kerry
J. Biden
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack
E. Bayh
C. Dodd
R. Feingold
A. Sharpton

Reps
J. McCain
R. Giuliani
C. Hagel
M. Romney
M. Huckabee
S. Brownback
M. Bloomberg
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter
R. Santorum
T. Thompson
B. Frist
G. Allen

Fun
J. Lieberman
M. Badnarik
H. Stern
E. Presley
S. Claus

I was surprised to see C. Hagel make it up to third place on the Republican list. That might have to do more with the bias of the person making up the rankings than reality. I also noted that B. Richardson made it up to fourth on the Democratic side. That might also be based more on the biases of the ranker than the reality of the situation.

ETA: And Hagel is looking pretty good when one considers the electorate might think that McCain is too pro-war, too old and too much like a wannabe Bush and Giuliani gets eliminated by the too many wife rule.

[steverino]

Ran across this article in the eye doctor's waiting room, fwiw:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546362,00.html

From above article...Powell and Obama have another thing in common: they are black people who--like Tiger Woods, Oprah Winfrey and Michael Jordan--seem to have an iconic power over the American imagination because they transcend racial stereotypes. "It's all about gratitude," says essayist Shelby Steele, who frequently writes about the psychology of race. "White people are just thrilled when a prominent black person comes along and doesn't rub their noses in racial guilt. White people just go crazy over people like that."

I find this statement hypocritical and disgusting. I see Obama and Woods as people, not black people. To say they "transcend race" and then also talk refer to each as a "prominant black person..." makes me want to puke. I dated a woman who happened to be black. My conservative friends would say, "Good luck. She's a nice girl." My liberal friends would say, "She is so well-spoken." and "what's it feel like dating a black?" If Obama has good ideas and is indeed able to reach across the aisle I will vote for him, not because he is (half) black.:boggled:

[Dave1001]

From above article...Powell and Obama have another thing in common: they are black people who--like Tiger Woods, Oprah Winfrey and Michael Jordan--seem to have an iconic power over the American imagination because they transcend racial stereotypes. "It's all about gratitude," says essayist Shelby Steele, who frequently writes about the psychology of race. "White people are just thrilled when a prominent black person comes along and doesn't rub their noses in racial guilt. White people just go crazy over people like that."

I find this statement hypocritical and disgusting. I see Obama and Woods as people, not black people. To say they "transcend race" and then also talk refer to each as a "prominant black person..." makes me want to puke. I dated a woman who happened to be black. My conservative friends would say, "Good luck. She's a nice girl." My liberal friends would say, "She is so well-spoken." and "what's it feel like dating a black?" If Obama has good ideas and is indeed able to reach across the aisle I will vote for him, not because he is (half) black.:boggled:

Interesting ideas. Good point that Obama is half black. He's also half white. Tiger Woods is less than 1/2 black. I think the thing he's the most is Thai. As for Colin Powell ... I think he's got Jamaican roots, and would be called mulatto or creole there.

[The Painter]

Ran across this article in the eye doctor's waiting room, fwiw:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546362,00.html

Your doctor has a computer in the waiting room? NICE.

2008…..Hillary Clinton runs, Hillary Clinton wins. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.

[steverino]

Interesting ideas. Good point that Obama is half black. He's also half white. Tiger Woods is less than 1/2 black. I think the thing he's the most is Thai. As for Colin Powell ... I think he's got Jamaican roots, and would be called mulatto or creole there.

Thanks.:) Well, Bob Marley was half white. But I don't want to spoil the party! Jah love.

[hgc]

Thanks.:) Well, Bob Marley was half white. But I don't want to spoil the party! Jah love.
Being that there's no strict definition, that I know of, for what is "black" or "white," these simple fractional designations are non-sensical.

[Upchurch]

Your doctor has a computer in the waiting room? NICE.
I go to all my health professionals online. who wants to see a doctor irl these days. :rolleyes:

[Dave1001]

How's this for a slogan? "Barack Obama For President: He's no lesbian atheist."

[hgc]

Look who just came out of left field! Gadzooks!

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[hgc]

Buh bye Bayh. We hardly knew ye. Do us a favor and dump that Biden thing in the garbage on your way out.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[steverino]

Sharpton and Vilsack should be under Elvis in "For Fun."

[davefoc]

Sharpton and Vilsack should be under Elvis in "For Fun."
Kucinich also, if realistic chance at the nomination is the criteria.

Right now it looks like it will be one of the top three Democrats (Clinton, Obama, Edwards) for sure.

I think the Republican primary is more interesting.

McCain has got a lot of problems not the least of which are age and appearance that seem to working against him. It is far from clear that Giuliani can win the Republican primary which leaves open the possibility that somebody else on this list or even somebody else not on the list might get the Republican nomination.

[hgc]

Warner is reconsidering. I unstrike now. Note that Newt is lately saying that if the Rep nom isn't locked up by Labor Day, he'll get in.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[hgc]

Hey! How many Virginia governors will this thing hold?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
A. Sharpton
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley

[steverino]

I admit I have been in a state of deNile. Not the river in Africa, either. It's gunna be all Hillary for eight years. She'll throw Obama a Secretary of State bone. Barring a health crisis, or some new scandel, is there anyone here who disagrees?

[hgc]

Updates will be coming fast and thick over the next few weeks. I'm adding former Oklahoma gov Frank Keating on today. And since everyone knows that John Edwards (my personal favorite) will announce tomorrow, I'll go ahead and give him his dot. Since Sharpton never really expressed any interest, I'll move him down to Fun category. I'm also unstriking Kerry - he is seriously considering... :rolleyes: Who likes Huckabee to get into the Republican top tier?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[hgc]

Hmm. Previous post didn't bump the thread. The forum has become quite delicate lately.

[marksman]

Why is Bloomberg on the list? He's not running. (http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061201/A_OPINION0610/612010310/-1/A_OPINION06)

[hgc]

Mitt gets his dot today. Go Mitt!

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[hgc]

Why is Bloomberg on the list? He's not running. (http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061201/A_OPINION0610/612010310/-1/A_OPINION06)
He made it to the list in the early speculative stage. I've struck him.

[hgc]

Someone working for Giuliani loses campaign strategy book. It says he wants to raise $100 million in 2007, starting with $25 million in the 1st qtr. It also lists a bunch of potential fundraising bigwigs who have since committed to McCain.

Funny quote from article in NY Observer (http://www.observer.com/20070108/20070108_Jason_Horowitz_pageone_newsstorya1.asp):

John Weaver, a chief political strategist to Mr. McCain, said that the emergence of the document proved the political wisdom of the adage "Don’t put pen to paper" and, referring to Giuliani Partners, the former Mayor’s consulting company, he added, "I thought it was a security company."Ouch. Anyone want to put a fork in Giuliani?

[hammegk]

I noticed last night a tv talking head pimping the 'unbeatable-by-anyone' McCain/Guilliani ticket ... hmmm ....

[steverino]

Someone working for Giuliani loses campaign strategy book.

Ouch. Anyone want to put a fork in Giuliani?

[hgc]

I noticed last night a tv talking head pimping the 'unbeatable-by-anyone' McCain/Guilliani ticket ... hmmm ....
Hmmm, sounds like more of the same. TV talking heads speculate endlessly on their own hopes and dreams, pretending for all that it's cogent political analysis.

[davefoc]

Ouch. Anyone want to put a fork in Giuliani?

I'd say yes. Prior to this, Giuliani was my pick to win the whole thing. I thought he was still a pretty big long shot with maybe only a 15% chance but I just wasn't more sure of anybody else.

I was already downrating his chances after rethinking the multiple wife thing I just decided that he probably had had at least one two many. But now I'd say he's under a 10% shot.

My new favorite is Edwards. I give him a 20% shot right now. My wife thinks the whole lawyer thing is going to do him in.

[hgc]

My new favorite is Edwards. I give him a 20% shot right now. My wife thinks the whole lawyer thing is going to do him in.
Yeah, I think Edwards is the Hillary-killer, if there is such a thing. On the Republican side, I think the best possible Saint McCain-killer is Huckabee, and he's got a good chance considering that McCain has tied his wagon to a losing warhorse.

[Luke T.]

He's on at Luke's request. Whatever he says, I'll do.

The mind reels!

Mwa-ha-ha-ha!

[Luke T.]

My new favorite is Edwards. I give him a 20% shot right now. My wife thinks the whole lawyer thing is going to do him in.

I've listened to Edwards and it is the exact same "Two Americas" speech he was using four years ago. So if Kerry enters the race, Edwards will suffer the same fate he did before, only worse. Kerry probably won't pick him as a running mate this time.

[hgc]

I've listened to Edwards and it is the exact same "Two Americas" speech he was using four years ago. So if Kerry enters the race, Edwards will suffer the same fate he did before, only worse. Kerry probably won't pick him as a running mate this time.
You really think Kerry could get Dem nod? Sure, Gore could get nominated, but Kerry really did lose.

[aerosolben]

I've listened to Edwards and it is the exact same "Two Americas" speech he was using four years ago. So if Kerry enters the race, Edwards will suffer the same fate he did before, only worse.The message is the same, the environment is different. Edwards is now perceived as being more experienced rather than a neophyte, Kerry got his shot and failed, the use of the same message may be more likely to be perceived as commitment to a cause rather than trend-jumping, etc.

[davefoc]

Why is Bloomberg on the list? He's not running. (http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061201/A_OPINION0610/612010310/-1/A_OPINION06)

Whoa, it looks like the country dodged a bullet there. We might have had somebody actually qualified to be president. Obviously experience over the last six years as shown us that we don't need that kind of thing.

[Luke T.]

You really think Kerry could get Dem nod? Sure, Gore could get nominated, but Kerry really did lose.

Hey, I said nearly two months ago, back in Post 69 (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2093887#post2093887), that Kerry didn't have a chance. :)

[hgc]

Hey, I said nearly two months ago, back in Post 69 (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2093887#post2093887), that Kerry didn't have a chance. :)
I look at the posts of a thread as like amendments to the constitution. Your latest post constitutes your current opinion. :)

[Luke T.]

I look at the posts of a thread as like amendments to the constitution. Your latest post constitutes your current opinion. :)

Even though I don't believe Kerry would get the nomination again, I do think he would fare better in the primaries and knock Edwards out of the box in head-to-head competition.

Kerry has taken on a much more aggressive attitude lately. And even if he decides not to run, he won't throw his weight around for Edwards. He'll back someone else. And that will also damage Edwards. You can hear the press now, "How come Kerry isn't supporting you this time around?"

But then again, Kerry may decides he likes Hillary and Obama less than Edwards, and he may end up backing Edwards.

We have over a year to guess.

[hgc]

Quick update on non-event: Huckabee will not announce tonight on the Daily Show. I think he's the un-McCain on the Republican side -- not Giuliani or Romney. He's got a great personal odyssey with his massive weight-loss success. That's something a lot of Americans can relate to or aspire to.

Update on McCain: he's using Lieberman's win in Connecticut now as evidence that Americans don't favor Iraq withdrawal. Could it be any more clear that Lieberman is McCain's pitiful prop? Never in the history of mankind has one's head been so far up one's own ass as Lieberman's is, not to mention that he still manages to reach his lips to McCain's ass.

[marksman]

Could it be any more clear that Lieberman is McCain's pitiful prop? Never in the history of mankind has one's head been so far up one's own ass as Lieberman's is, not to mention that he still manages to reach his lips to McCain's ass.

You know, hgc, I love ya, but I can't help tweaking you on your hate-on for Lieberman.

"I think that Lieberman would lose a race as an Independent if he's defeated in Dem primary. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1704664&postcount=4)"
-06/14/2006

"He's toast. I say that because even his refusal at this point to say he'll support the nominee if he loses is pissing off Dems to no end -- those that weren't sick of him already. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1704699&postcount=7)"
-06/14/2006

"Here's my prediction for the general election: Dems will vote for their nominee, Republicans for theirs and Joe will come in a distant 2nd, or even 3rd. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1744436&postcount=26)"
-07/03/2006

All intended in good fun! :P

[hgc]

You know, hgc, I love ya, but I can't help tweaking you on your hate-on for Lieberman.

"I think that Lieberman would lose a race as an Independent if he's defeated in Dem primary. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1704664&postcount=4)"
-06/14/2006

"He's toast. I say that because even his refusal at this point to say he'll support the nominee if he loses is pissing off Dems to no end -- those that weren't sick of him already. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1704699&postcount=7)"
-06/14/2006

"Here's my prediction for the general election: Dems will vote for their nominee, Republicans for theirs and Joe will come in a distant 2nd, or even 3rd. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1744436&postcount=26)"
-07/03/2006

All intended in good fun! :P
Of course I deserve that. I hate being wrong, not because of ego, but because Lieberman is a cancer on our polity. One reason he won last November, I believe, is that he lied to his constituents repeatedly about his stance on Iraq withdrawal, thus making McCain's claims ever more disingenuous.

[davefoc]

I don't like Lieberman. And assuming that he lied about his Iraq views as hgc suggests I like him even less.

But I don't think what he did with regard to running as an independent was necessarily a bad thing. From my perspective as something of a moderate I think its nice when the system allows candidates that are somewhere between the two partisan extremes that are often the only choices. In this case though it didn't work out for me. Lieberman is more of a social conservative, less of an economic conservative and way more of a middle east hawk than I am. Lieberman represented an individual whose views were the most disparate from mine as I could imagine possible for any mainstream candidate.

Couple that with the fact that his personality strikes me as decidedly weasel like and I am just amazed the dear votes in Connecticut could have voted for him. Was this there little joke on the rest of the US?

Oh yeah, I was wrong too about Lieberman winning but apparently less wrong than hgc, because I thought he would lose only by a few percent.

[hgc]

The other senator from Connecticut gets his dot today.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[hgc]

Two new names in the Republican ranks today. I don't think that McCain thing has such a mark of inevitability, as far as the rest of the potential field is concerned.

Also: Who thinks Obama will announce on Oprah this week? Talk about 1-upping Edwards' accouncement on The Daily Show 3 years ago.

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo
R. Paul

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[hgc]

Obama will run. That's something.

Has Gore bowed out, or is he just being coy?

Dems
H. Clinton
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo
R. Paul


Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[davefoc]

Obama will run. That's something.

Has Gore bowed out, or is he just being coy?


I think he's being reasonable. If Edwards wasn't there the Democrats would have only the two novelty candidates, Clinton and Obama, as front running contenders. If Gore got in now all that would happen is that he and Edwards would split the non Hillary and non Obama vote and neither he nor Edwards would have a chance.

I don't suppose there's much chance that my favorite, B. Richardson is going to get the nomination. And it's looking like Chuck Hagel isn't happening on the Republican side.

[steverino]

[QUOTE=hgc;2261833]

Has Gore bowed out, or is he just being coy?

Or maybe he is just being wooden, and we can't tell what he intends.

[marksman]

I don't suppose there's much chance that my favorite, B. Richardson is going to get the nomination.He's my fave too. I'd vote for him over any of the other Presidential contenders in a heartbeat.

[marksman]

Hey, hgc! Update this thing. It was a busy weekend!

[hgc]

OK, marksman, I am here. I was in a mountain cabin all weekend, and didn't have access to the hub of political activity. I know that I've got a couple dots to add on the Dem side, and I think one of the GOP mentioned has pulled his name out recently (Keating), but is there anything else?

The field is quite crowded 21 months out. When will it be too late for the likes of a Gore or a Gingrich?

Dems
H. Clinton •
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson •
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo
R. Paul


Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[CynicalSkeptic]

McCain used to be my favorite Republican, but he looked like a tired old man after Bush's Iraqi Surge speech, I don't think he has the charisma anymore for a shot at the presidency.
I really like Ron Paul, but I think he's far too Libertarian for the Christian Coalition branch of the party so he can't win the primary.
That leaves Giuliani as my current favorite.

On the Dem side, I think Obama and Edwards have the name recognition for the anyone-but-Hillary vote, but Obama may be too black and too inexperienced. Edwards seemed very likable last go-round, so he's my favorite to win.

Badnarik is not on Wikipedia's list of Libertarian candidates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_presidential_election), and in fact, I don't recognize any of the names for 3rd parties nor independents. Regardless, I'll file my protest vote for the Libertarian party unless Ron Paul actually gets on the ballot.

[EvilSmurf]

I wonder, is there a small chance that Ron Paul will consider running for the Libertarian nomination (which he would probably be a shoo-in to win) after his Presidential Exploratory Committee tells him "You want to do WHAT?"

[CynicalSkeptic]

I wonder, is there a small chance that Ron Paul will consider running for the Libertarian nomination (which he would probably be a shoo-in to win) after his Presidential Exploratory Committee tells him "You want to do WHAT?"
Why not? He did 20 years ago.

[hgc]

Whew! We can restrike Kerry. The Dem field is getting pretty well settled. I think Warner is probably really out. Gore can take it or leave it apparently, and so my guess is that he'll leave it. Where is Clark?

Dems
H. Clinton •
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson •
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo
R. Paul


Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[marksman]

Where is Clark?
Still pondering: (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070124/NEWS10/701240416/1002/NEWS)
Gen. Wesley Clark... is considering a second run for president in 2008 but hasn't made an announcement.

[hgc]

The Adventures of Huckabee Finn.
Tancredo too. Look out, Mexicans!
I hear Clark will be here in 2 weeks.

Dems
H. Clinton •
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson •
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee •
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo •
R. Paul


Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
J. Lieberman
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

[hgc]

Pataki's New Hampshire office for rent. I think it's safe to strike him.
I've also moved Lieberman to a new party designation.

Dems
H. Clinton •
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson •
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee •
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo •
R. Paul

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

Dissent is Treason
J. Lieberman

[hgc]

Guess who's back. Yes, it's Ralph. He says that if the panderer Hillary is nominated, it will be important for him to run. He also says that Gore doesn't blame him for 2000. I do hope that Gore slaps that notion down hard.

Dems
H. Clinton •
J. Kerry
A. Gore
J. Edwards •
M. Warner
W. Clark
T. Vilsack •
E. Bayh •
J. Biden •
C. Dodd •
B. Richardson •
R. Feingold
B. Obama •
D. Kucinich •

Reps
J. McCain •
R. Giuliani •
G. Allen
S. Brownback •
B. Frist
C. Hagel
M. Huckabee •
M. Romney •
G. Pataki
N. Gingrich
D. Hunter •
M. Bloomberg
R. Santorum
T. Thompson •
J. Gilmore
F. Keating
T. Tancredo •
R. Paul

Fun
H. Stern
M. Badnarik
S. Claus
E. Presley
A. Sharpton

Dissent is Treason
J. Lieberman

Those who said there's no difference between Gore and Bush
R. Nader

[steverino]

Gore should be hanging Nader, not hanging Chad. Nader ruined him, and, if you believe in the Inconvenient Truth, Nader also set back global warming at least 8 years.What a guy.

Can we all agree Biden is articulate, clean, and finished here?