StopSylvia Article for Review: Montel "9/11 Reading" [Archive]

RSLancastr

14th September 2006, 05:55 PM

Here's a draft of another article for the site:

Article: Montel Williams 9/11 Reading (http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/drafts/montel911.htm)

Again, don't worry about the formatting. I'm playing with various looks, and this is just one of them.

I am more interested in comments on the content of the article. It isn't complete, but I think I have most of the points in there that I wanted to make.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

-RSL

GregC

14th September 2006, 06:48 PM

I never saw the show so I can't say anything of the content. The page looks good and I look forward to the link so I can see the video. Good work RSL.

Lisa Simpson

14th September 2006, 06:51 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0dU0Q208HKI

RSLancastr

14th September 2006, 06:56 PM

Reviewing the video, I see I got a couple of things wrong, such as Sylvia's eyes widening, and the timing of the pauses. I'll tidy that up.

Sherman Bay

14th September 2006, 07:11 PM

But she sees him in water! How could she be wrong? He must be in water! Maybe his wife is wrong! That's it -- he played hooky on 9/11 day, and went swimming, and drowned! So of course they never found him!

So simple when you know how. Sylvia is never wrong, even when she's wrong.

Tamarillicent

14th September 2006, 07:47 PM

I just realized that the lady in that Sylvia Browne video is my old neighbor from Queens! She lived in the apartment right next to mine, but purchased an apartment in another building in the neighborhood after i'd been there for a few months.
We chatted a little bit one day when I visited the store she owned a block or so away. She remembered me being her neighbor but, honestly, my memory had to be jogged. During that conversation she told me about her fiancee Sergio, the firefighter.
During 9/11, I stayed with my boyfriend (now husband) at his place (now our place) and when I returned to Queens, there were piles of flowers, and candles, and people praying in front of her closed shop. That's when I found out that Sergio was gone.
I feel like and idiot, because I've watched that video a bunch of times and kept thinking, "That could be her, but she was thinner and her hair was longer." So, I searched for a pic of her online, and I do believe it's my old neighbor. Freeky.

Tam

Lisa Simpson

14th September 2006, 07:54 PM

There is a Sergio Villanueva listed as missing.

http://cms.firehouse.com/911/detail.jsp?id=80

mumchup

14th September 2006, 08:01 PM

That woman looked pretty disappointed as she was sitting down, perhaps even disgusted. I wonder if Sylvia just made a disbeliever out of her? Watching that reminds me of how predatory the psychic racket really is. No matter what that woman thinks today about Sylvia Browne's "abilities", I can't imagine that interchange was in any way comforting to her.

Tamarillicent

14th September 2006, 08:03 PM

There is a Sergio Villanueva listed as missing.

That's him. The woman talking to Sylvia is his fiancee Tanya.

Here's a link to a pic of her...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/nationworld121/25.html

MetalPig

15th September 2006, 03:25 AM

That article says her name is Tanya Villanueva. Does she use her fiance's name? I've never heard of that.

Tamarillicent

15th September 2006, 06:27 AM

That article says her name is Tanya Villanueva. Does she use her fiance's name? I've never heard of that.

Honestly, I don't know if she's using her fiance's name, or if she just happens to have the same name. It would be odd, but not impossible I'm sure.

Lisa Simpson

15th September 2006, 06:27 AM

She could have changed her name legally after he died (as a tribute or memorial of the marriage that didn't happen) or she could just be calling herself that.

ImaginalDisc

15th September 2006, 06:29 AM

I believe that what Sylvia Browne does is indistinguishable from "cold reading,"

Do youi have to use the caveat, "I believe," in this scentence for legal reasons?

Tamazon

15th September 2006, 08:38 AM

Of course Sylvia and her believers will say that she isn't always 100% right. And that we can't expect her to be. I've heard every psychic say that to cover their own butts.

Okay fine, but then at least admit to the lady that you might be wrong. Sylvia should have said "he's not coming through" or "I must be seeing someone else" or something like that. It would have saved her some face.

I'm glad she didn't though. Although the poor lady was very upset, she hopefully saw through the old hag.

Tamarillicent

15th September 2006, 09:12 AM

She could have changed her name legally after he died (as a tribute or memorial of the marriage that didn't happen) or she could just be calling herself that.

That's true, too. Judging from the video, she misses him very much every day. Perhaps this was her way of keeping him with her.
Legally, they were nothing more than good friends, perhaps it's a way of being recognized as his family? They lived together, owned a shop together, they probably figured the actual wedding was just a formality before this happened. I guess there could be lots of reasons.

SPQR

15th September 2006, 09:24 AM

RS, I applaud you for just sticking to the facts and withholding any emotional outbursts that might betray a bias against Sylvia. You can be sure that if I were inclined to write such an article, I would not be so polite. :D

I know that the above could be percieved as being sarcastic, but I assure you it is written with the utmost sincerity.

Bradk3

15th September 2006, 09:45 AM

I'm at work now and can't watch the video again to be sure, but I think the following quote isn't quite right, especially the part in bold:

Browne: The reason why you didn't find him is 'cause he's in water. And, find him in water...

I can't be certain, however.

Also, Tamarillicent seems to know the woman being "cold read" by Sylvia. You may want to make an attempt to contact her and, at least, confirm that her fiance died at the World Trade Center. It would strengthen this assertion that you make:

(The woman's New York accent, combined with the fact that the show tapes in New York City, would seem to indicates that the woman's boyfriend was one of the New York firemen who died at the World Trade Center on September 11th, 2001.)

At the very least, you could use the photo that Tamatillicent linked to lend credence to that statement.

Overall, I like the article. It's very well balanced. I wish there were a way to come across a little more harshly while remaining balanced. Sylvia really blew it on this one and deserves to be seriously castigated for it.

RSLancastr

15th September 2006, 10:44 AM

So simple when you know how. Sylvia is never wrong, even when she's wrong.You got it!

I just realized that the lady in that Sylvia Browne video is my old neighbor from Queens!Tamarillicent, please check your Private Messages (there is a link to view your private messages right under the image of Mr. Randi's eyes in the upper-right corner of this page).

No matter what that woman thinks today about Sylvia Browne's "abilities", I can't imagine that interchange was in any way comforting to her.I agree, mumchup.

Do youi have to use the caveat, "I believe," in this scentence for legal reasons?That's a part of some of my use of words like "seems" and "apparently", but it is also because I am trying very hard not to come across like I am telling the reader what to think. I make no effort to hide my opinion (the name of the site makes it obvious), but I am trying to be as fair as possible, while still being clear on my position.

It's a difficult and delicate line to walk, and there will be times when I stray too far from it in one direction or another.

I'll think about it and see whether I need the caveat there, thanks.

Okay fine, but then at least admit to the lady that you might be wrong. Sylvia should have said "he's not coming through" or "I must be seeing someone else" or something like that. It would have saved her some face.Of course, had she done that, we would be pointing out the fact that she had changed her story. Bt yes, it would have been good for the sake of decency for her to back down in the face of that woman's tragedy. But to do so would require some decency and compassion.

RS, I applaud you for just sticking to the facts and withholding any emotional outbursts that might betray a bias against Sylvia.Thanks, SPQR. Again, I'm not trying to hide my opinion of Sylvia. I'm just trying to give as straightforward and unemotional analysis of events as I can. Thanks for noticing.

I'm at work now and can't watch the video again to be sure, but I think the following quote isn't quite right, especially the part in bold:I'll check it again, but I triple-checked the transcription when I wrote it a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps I am mishearing that portion. If you watch it again and think any of it is incorrect, PLEASE let me know.

Overall, I like the article. It's very well balanced. I wish there were a way to come across a little more harshly while remaining balanced.Thanks, and yes, I know what you mean.

alfaniner

15th September 2006, 12:35 PM

Nice mention in Randi's column today!

I have to think that all SB does is try to think up new, interesting ways for people to have died. After all, most of the regular causes are so boring.

RSLancastr

15th September 2006, 12:42 PM

All: I have contacted the woman in the video. If she responds, and it is appropriate, I will share her response here and on the StopSylvia site.

Nice mention in Randi's column today!Thanks! Now if there was just some content on the site... :boxedin:

Almo

15th September 2006, 12:44 PM

Looks really good to me. I like the avoidance of direct accusations.

I believe that what Sylvia Browne does is indistinguishable from "cold reading,"

Genius.

GregC

15th September 2006, 01:31 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0dU0Q208HKI

Thank you, Lisa. I won't blame you for anything today.

timokay

15th September 2006, 02:25 PM

All: I have contacted the woman in the video. If she responds, and it is appropriate, I will share her response here and on the StopSylvia site.

Thanks! Now if there was just some content on the site... :boxedin:

This is really nice work. It is my hope that the woman not only realizes that she has been put on display by a fraud, but is angry enough to try and get Montel to address it on his show.

That would really be great.

xenxabar

15th September 2006, 06:45 PM

Excellent job, RSL! I like the update to the main page with the new logo, too. A few things I noticed:

1. The style sheet or font that you are using doesn't show the contrasts of the header levels. The first word, "Story", is appears the same size font as the body of the text. I tried the same source tags locally and it looks much different (not nearly as good as you've done with the color scheme and new graphics).
2. Don't forget the links, especially your own.

RSLancastr

15th September 2006, 06:57 PM

Looks really good to me. I like the avoidance of direct accusations.Thanks, Almo.

This is really nice work. It is my hope that the woman not only realizes that she has been put on display by a fraud, but is angry enough to try and get Montel to address it on his show.Thanks, tim. I know what you mean, but I wouldn't ask her to confront Montel. Silvia used this woman's pain. I have no intention of doing the same thing. I would just like to know her side of it, and to quote that, if she will allow it.

Excellent job, RSL! I like the update to the main page with the new logo, too. A few things I noticed:

1. The style sheet or font that you are using doesn't show the contrasts of the header levels. The first word, "Story", is appears the same size font as the body of the text. I tried the same source tags locally and it looks much different (not nearly as good as you've done with the color scheme and new graphics).Thanks. Again though, the look/format is still in flux, and I am trying many things with it. The look in the draft is jst the last one I played with before uploading it!

2. Don't forget the links, especially your own.My own? Not sure what you mean.

xenxabar

15th September 2006, 07:04 PM

My own? Not sure what you mean.
The top banner you have www.stopsylviabrowne.com but no link to it. That's all I meant. Gotta give the user every opportunity to hit the home page.

RSLancastr

15th September 2006, 09:11 PM

The top banner you have www.stopsylviabrowne.com but no link to it. That's all I meant. Gotta give the user every opportunity to hit the home page.Ah. Yes, all of the links to the various sections of the site - the nav menu - has to be added (below the banner, most likely) and a lis of links to other articles (on the right).

I don't have any of that in the draft article for review, as none of the supporting files are there.

Brown

15th September 2006, 10:20 PM

"In water."

If a person purports to provide information, whether it be from a reliable source or a questionable source, the information must have meaning to be of any possible benefit.

The utterance, "The reason why you didn't find him is 'cause he's in water," is relatively unambiguous. It says that the body cannot be found because it is "in water." Not that the body is "near water," as is every person on Earth. Suggesting that "in water" is equivalent to "near water" would stretch the words so as to have no meaning. And in any event, "near water" is not the equivalent of "in water" in this particular context, because "you didn't find him is 'cause he's near water" would be patent nonsense.

Nor can "in water" mean "below sea level" or "below river level," as the so-called "bathtub" of the World Trade Center supposedly was. The "bathtub" was constructed to keep Hudson River water out, and following the events of September 11, water leaked into it. This water was removed, however, so any body or remains that would have been "in" that water would have been found.

Nor can "in water" mean "works with water," as firemen (among many others) do. Furthermore, every human works with water to some degree, whether that work be an activity such as cooking with it, feeding a lawn with it or washing with it. To say that someone "works with water" provides no meaning, no new information. And once again, such a usage in this context would be nonsense.

And since all humans have a high water content, "in water" cannot refer to the fact that humans are made largely of water. Stretching "in water" to include this concept would again have no meaning.

The most obvious (but not necessarily the only) reasonable reading of the remark, "The reason why you didn't find him is 'cause he's in water," is that the body is obscured, removed or corrupted by the presence of water. But none of those was in play at the World Trade Center. There were no bodies of water covering humans, or washing them away, or causing the remains to quickly decompose.

Thus, if Browne's words are to have meaning and not be utterly empty of value, then she must admit an error.

Or to put it another way: Either she was in error, or what she said was vacuous. There is no third alternative.

RSLancastr

18th September 2006, 04:29 PM

Or to put it another way: Either she was in error, or what she said was vacuous. There is no third alternative.Well said, Brown.

Just promise me you'll never add any superfluous vowels to your name.

alienlady

18th September 2006, 05:47 PM

Hi! I'm new here.

This topic has got my tail waggin. I too believe that Sylvia's readings are way too open-ended and I agree with just about everything I have read here about Sylvia. HOWEVER...

If this poor Firefighter, may God rest his soul, died while caught in the Blazing Inferno that probably tumbled down upon him...

He must have been burned to cinders or ashes as it may be.

Now, All those fire hoses shooting WATER into the flames you know had to wash away through the rubble and probably taking his ashes with it.

Hence: IN WATER!

It can go further than that. Did any of the water wash into New Yorks sewers? Do these sewers open out to a larger body of water? Hmmmmm

JLam

18th September 2006, 06:08 PM

RSLancastr

18th September 2006, 06:13 PM

Now, All those fire hoses shooting WATER into the flames you know had to wash away through the rubble and probably taking his ashes with it.

Hence: IN WATER!Browne said:

"'Cause he's... he says he couldn't breathe and he was filled with water."That would not seem to jive with the interpretation you mention.

But yes, a "true believer" could stretch just about any reading, no matter how wrong, to be a "hit."

mumchup

18th September 2006, 06:17 PM

Sylvia and her ilk rely on people to use their imagination to connect her guesses to something meaningful, even if it's a bit of a stretch. That's part of how they get away with it. She says something that's not even close and the victim thinks and thinks about it until eventually they find a way to make it fit.
If I was inclined to believe her (I'm not) I would decide that you are right, that's exactly what she meant all along.

pchams

19th September 2006, 08:55 AM

ignore

bjb

19th September 2006, 01:32 PM

He must have been burned to cinders or ashes as it may be.

Now, All those fire hoses shooting WATER into the flames you know had to wash away through the rubble and probably taking his ashes with it.

Hence: IN WATER!

No.

Sylvia claims the firefighter said "he couldn't breath and he was filled with water". This is inconsistent with the fact that the firefighter actually died when the building collapsed. Sylvia also claimed that the 'girl in Aruba' is also in water. Does Sylvia actually mean the girl was killed in a building collapse and her ashes washed out to sea? You can't have it both ways.

RSLancastr

5th October 2006, 12:16 PM

I feel like and idiot, because I've watched that video a bunch of times and kept thinking, "That could be her, but she was thinner and her hair was longer." So, I searched for a pic of her online, and I do believe it's my old neighbor. Freeky.An update:

Tam, I was able to contact your old neighbor, and she says that was not her on the Montel Show.

Thanks for the lead though!

xenxabar

22nd October 2006, 09:14 PM

RSL, how goes the site building progress?

RSLancastr

23rd October 2006, 02:28 PM

RSL, how goes the site building progress?Well, my life has calmed down a bit (we are now all moved into the new house, my fiancee is mostly recovered from her surgery, and the killer deadline projects at work are done), so I just yesterday was able to get back to working on the site, after a month or so away from it.

My intention at this oint is to open the site before the end of the month, even if it only contains a handful of articles.

Thanks for asking!

demonologist

23rd October 2006, 02:33 PM

You should include a link to the full transcript so that readers don't think you carefully edited, especially since it is a partisan website.

RSLancastr

23rd October 2006, 02:52 PM

You should include a link to the full transcript so that readers don't think you carefully edited, especially since it is a partisan website.The full transcript IS in the article. There are no "non-quoted" gaps between the quoted sections. Perhaps I should have a link to the transcript anyway, to emphasize the fact that I have left nothing out.

Eiother way, I will be including a link to the entire video of the segment as well.

Thanks for the suggestion!

demonologist

23rd October 2006, 03:06 PM

yes, you should include a link to the full transcript (preferrably off your site). The fact that the quotes are broken apart can suggest that it has been edited (this is normal when responding to something. You respond to the part you are talking about). Especially since yours is a partisan website, in order to show that you are not leaving parts out, you should link to a full transcript. Having the video is good, of course, but like all research, print is preferred.

shalomsteph

23rd October 2006, 11:55 PM

Here is a really bad Sylvia miss. Laughable, if not a child.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFNKsmwgw8w&mode=related&search=

grayman

25th October 2006, 01:04 PM

Out of curiosity, how many hits are you receiving on the site?

RSLancastr

25th October 2006, 02:18 PM

Here is a really bad Sylvia miss. Laughable, if not a child.Yes, I've seen that one Steph, thanks. It would be laughable if it weren't so angering...

Out of curiosity, how many hits are you receiving on the site?Not sure. I'll check this evening.

Miss Whiplash

25th October 2006, 04:38 PM

eeyore1954

26th October 2006, 04:34 AM

Keep up the good work exposing these kinds of frauds. A friend of ours lost her grandson (she was raising him) who did drown in a car accident. Psychics fleeced her of over 250,000 dollars in order to talk to him.

RSLancastr

26th October 2006, 01:24 PM

Hey eeyore. Thanks fer noticin' me. :)

Sorry to hear about your friend. Out of curiosity: does she still believe in psychics?

Yeah_Right

27th October 2006, 02:26 PM

Here is a really bad Sylvia miss. Laughable, if not a child.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFNKsmwgw8w&mode=related&search=

Too bad we can't question these people afterwards to see if they still think Sylvia is right.

foxmaiden

27th October 2006, 09:15 PM

I couldn't find any information on anyone drowning in 9/11, but it does turn out there was a rescued fire fighter from the 1993 WTC bombing who, at one point, feared he might drown from water from burst pipes in the building.

"The radio communication was sporadic. They apparently could hear
my transmissions but I couldn't hear them, so I did a lot of yelling to
communicate. At one point I was worried that I might drown from the
water pouring in. I thought it was coming from handlines being used to
extinguish fires, so I yelled for them to be shut down. However, the water
was coming from broken piping. "
United States Fire Administration Technical Report Series: World Trade Centre Bombing Report and Analysis
Page 68

This is my first post, so I am not allowed to post URLs. If you want to read the full report I can pm you.

alfaniner

27th October 2006, 09:56 PM

Welcome foxmaiden! I hope you will pick up something new from this educational forum.

RSLancastr

28th October 2006, 03:38 AM

[LEFT]I couldn't find any information on anyone drowning in 9/11, but it does turn out there was a rescued fire fighter from the 1993 WTC bombing who, at one point, feared he might drown from water from burst pipes in the building.Thanks, Foxmaiden!

Yes, Someone else brought this to my attention. Here is an HTML version of the pdf document (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:4ZcD6nWGuuUJ:www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-076.pdf+%22At+one+point+I+was+worried+that+I+might +drown+from+the%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1) (which is not loading at this time for some reason).

Thanks again! Any more you find would be greatly appreciated.