sci-fi recommendation?

[orpheus]

Hello, all.

I've entered one of my least favorite periods - that awful time between novels when I try to decide what to read next. (Funny thing - when I was a child, I never had this problem; I just devoured the next available thing. But now I can spend more time trying to find the "right" book to read next than it might take to read several long chapters! Grrrrr.)

So here's my question: can anyone nudge me in the direction of a good sci-fi read? Sci-fi is particularly problematic for me, since so much of it is not very well-written. (Philip K. Dick is a good example, though others may disagree. I'm fascinated by the ideas he explores, and that makes it worthwhile. But, as Stanislaw Lem said once, I have an urge to read Dick at top speed, since the quality of the writing is often not good; one doesn't want to linger.) So it's frustrating to look at a book, judge it by its cover, get excited about what it seems to promise, want to like it, salivate over starting it, dig in, and then find that my idea of what it should have been is much better than what it actually is.

Sci-fi I've enjoyed: Many of Dick's novels, some of Aldiss's short stories, a lot of Lem, some of Neal Stephenson (though I bogged down 2/3 of the way through Quicksilver), some A.C. Clarke.

Other writers I've enjoyed: Calvino, Borges, Robbe-Grillet, Perec, Beckett, and Russell Hoban.

Sci-fi writers I want to like but wonder if they'll disappoint: Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, David Brin, Stephen Baxter, Gene Wolfe, Olaf Stapledon, Samuel Delany.

Any thoughts? (other than that I should get over my neuroses...)

[Foolmewunz]

A whole depends on your own taste, of course. There's a pretty long thread, here..... http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=59571

Ignore the thread title - although there are good recommendations for start-up, you're obviously not a newbie if you've delved into P.K. Dick, and the others you mention. I hate to admit it, but I sort of suspend literary tastes when reading murder mysteries or sci fi. Ripping through them is de rigeur.

With that in mind, the original Dune (not so much the sequels) is fun. I like the Foundation books, and Robot stories. If you dabble in fantasy, try The War of the Flowers by Tad Williams.

[Ryokan]

Two words : Isaac Asimov

Try the Foundation series. It made me the person I am today.

[orpheus]

Thanks, Foolmewunz and Ryokan. I'll check out that thread. And it's interesting about Asimov: I've always loved his non-fiction, but never got into his sci-fi. Perhaps it's time to start. I've heard that The Gods Themselves is also good. What do you think?

[Brainache]

I recommend you try Stephen Baxter. I find him a far better writer than Asimov or Clarke.

This is a fansite for him, but it will give you an idea of the kind of author he is:

http://www.themanifold.co.uk/news.php

Or if you like older stuff try The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

Have you read any of John Wyndham's cosy catastrophes?

What about Heinlein's Future History stories or The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress?

[Mojo]

Sci-fi I've enjoyed: Many of Dick's novels, some of Aldiss's short stories, a lot of Lem, some of Neal Stephenson (though I bogged down 2/3 of the way through Quicksilver), some A.C. Clarke.

Other writers I've enjoyed: Calvino, Borges, Robbe-Grillet, Perec, Beckett, and Russell Hoban.

Sci-fi writers I want to like but wonder if they'll disappoint: Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, David Brin, Stephen Baxter, Gene Wolfe, Olaf Stapledon, Samuel Delany.I can recommend Baxter, Bear, Benford (although I found one of his recent ones slightly disappointing) and Delaney. I haven't read much by the others.

You could also try Greg Egan, Paul J McAuley, Christopher Priest, Kim Stanley Robinson, Adam Roberts, John Sladek...

If you're interested in some of the sub-genres, there's the whole cyberpunk thing: William Gibson, Bruce Sterling, Jack Womack, Pat Cadigan, Jon Courtenay Grimwood...

There's some quite good space opera around at the moment too: Ken MacLeod, Iain M Banks (note the "M" ;) ), Alastair Reynolds, Neal Asher...

[Chaos]

Go here: http://www.baen.com/library/

You can read a lot of books for free, online, or download them. Look around if there´s anything you like.

[fuelair]

Hello, all.

Sci-fi writers I want to like but wonder if they'll disappoint: Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, David Brin, Stephen Baxter, Gene Wolfe, Olaf Stapledon, Samuel Delany.

Any thoughts? (other than that I should get over my neuroses...)

Haven't read Baxter - but the others have not disappointed in the past. Stapledon is the odd one in your list since he died or halted late 40's, early 50's. Very philosophical bent. read and enjoyed in late teen's (Odd-John) and early 20's Star-Maker and Last and First Men (titles may be slightly off, I am 60 so that would be 30 + years ago). Also, enjoy much Poul Anderson, Gordon Dickson (Dragon and the George, Dorsai and related series), Heinlein (Starship Troopers-dummies left jump suits and 30-second bombs out of movie. wish we had 30-sec. bombs, real fun) (many others). Good luck on your quest!!

[TobiasTheViking]

Stephen Baxter bothers me with all his errors.

In normal scifi i don't care if there is stuff that goes contrary to science. But when you try to make hard scifi, and work with all the real theories and stuff like that. Then it really bothers me when your science is wrong.

Which it, unfortunatly, is with Stephen Baxter.

[Bikewer]

Just like any other branch of literature, there are many sub-genres, and some folks get all hung up on that. I remember being in a bookstore and talking with a couple of other scifi fans. I mentioned that I liked Harlan Ellison, and one fellow elevated his nose and said, "I don't read SOFT science fiction!"
His loss...

You might try picking up a copy or two of the always excellent Asimov's Science Fiction magazine. Short stories and novellas have always been a strong part of the genre, and Asimov's publishes the best.

[Morwen]

I also recommend Asimov. And Lois McMaster Bujold (the Vorkosigan novels, not the Chalion ones), Connie Willis (Doomsday Book, To Say Nothing of the Dog) and C.J. Cherryh, especially Cyteen and Chanur's Pride. Recently I've discovered Robert J. Sawyer (I've just translated one of his books) and he's not half bad. Daring and "hard" SF. There's lots of stuff out there.

[Brainache]

Stephen Baxter bothers me with all his errors.

In normal scifi i don't care if there is stuff that goes contrary to science. But when you try to make hard scifi, and work with all the real theories and stuff like that. Then it really bothers me when your science is wrong.

Which it, unfortunatly, is with Stephen Baxter.

Which books are you referring to here? I find his stuff fairly compelling and I always thought he had a pretty solid science background(astronaut training etc)

Of course I'm no scientist, but I haven't read anything in Baxter's books which is any more outrageous than most other SF.
Maybe my standards of what constitutes Hard SF varies from yours.
Have you read Voyage? Titan? Evolution?
Most of his other books I suppose fall somewhere in between Hard and Soft SF

[Worm]

Asimov (Foundation, Robots etc.)
Iain M. Banks (Player of Games et. al.)
Frank Herbert (Dune)
Robert Heinlein

Asmiov is my great first love, but I quickly got turned on to many others.

[Ryokan]

I've heard that The Gods Themselves is also good. What do you think?

It's a very different Asimov book, but it's still pretty good. It's his only science fiction that includes aliens.

(If you disregard Gaia in the later Foundation books)

[TobiasTheViking]

Which books are you referring to here? I find his stuff fairly compelling and I always thought he had a pretty solid science background(astronaut training etc)

Of course I'm no scientist, but I haven't read anything in Baxter's books which is any more outrageous than most other SF.
Maybe my standards of what constitutes Hard SF varies from yours.
Have you read Voyage? Titan? Evolution?
Most of his other books I suppose fall somewhere in between Hard and Soft SF

All his three manifold stories had huge gaping errors in them. For one.

I also remember some stuff in the Xeelee Sequence, but not as much as in the manifold series.

And i've only read those two series by him.


From the Xeelee Sequence he does the woo thing and explain how everything must be observed(from quantum mechanics), the woo thing being that it has to be a human that does the observation. Basicly, untill a human has gone around(At the end of time) and watched everything, all artifacts, etc, the history is still in flux as to what has happened. I guess it doesn't have to be a human, might have been a Qax or a Xeelee as well, but, it was some sentient being that had to do it.

From the manifold series the "Carter Catastrophe" is used as being something real.


Imagine that two big urns are put in front of you, and you know that one of them contains ten balls and the other a million, but you are ignorant as to which is which. You know the balls in each urn are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 ... etc. Now you take a ball at random from the left urn, and it is number 7. Clearly, this is a strong indication that that urn contains only ten balls. [...]

But now consider the case where instead of the urns you have two possible human races, and instead of balls you have individuals, ranked according to birth order. As a matter of fact, you happen to find that your rank is about sixty billion. Now, say Carter and Leslie, we should reason in the same way as we did with the urns. That you should have a rank of sixty billion or so is much more likely if only 100 billion persons will ever have lived than if there will be many trillion persons. Therefore, by Bayes' theorem, you should update your beliefs about humankind’s prospects and realize that an impending doomsday is much more probable than you have hitherto thought.

http://www.anthropic-principle.com/

As in, because you and me are both alive right now(which is statisticaly inprobable if the human race will go on for some 60 billion years more) it means that the human race will end soon.

In the book it is some 150-200 years away. Or maybe it was less.

The problem with the argument above is, of course. That for it to make sence you and me have to somehow be "special". In reality all the balls in the urn would just be red, and have nothing to distinguish them. So after you have taken 5 balls you still have no idea if there was 10 to begin with, or 1000.

And yes, it really bothered me a LOT while reading those books.

Good enough for you? :D

[TobiasTheViking]

It's a very different Asimov book, but it's still pretty good. It's his only science fiction that includes aliens.

(If you disregard Gaia in the later Foundation books)

Wrong, there is a short that happens during Empire where there are aliens. Yes, in the robot -> empire -> foundation series.

If you really care i guess i could find the name. I liked the story. :)

[Ryokan]

Wrong, there is a short that happens during Empire where there are aliens. Yes, in the robot -> empire -> foundation series.

If you really care i guess i could find the name. I liked the story. :)

And now that you mention it, there's a robot short story with aliens on Jupiter as well. Pretty good story, actually.

But I was thinking about his novels.

[TobiasTheViking]

And now that you mention it, there's a robot short story with aliens on Jupiter as well. Pretty good story, actually.

But I was thinking about his novels.

Ah, oki, well, as it says in my title i have autism, and you didn't say book, you said "It's his only science fiction that includes aliens.", so :D hehe


No, i honestly did wonder if you meant book or not. You might have meant both, but there was nothing to lose by me posting what i did. Not like i could offend or anything :)

And i had totally spaced the robot and jupiter thing.. That is.. till now. I was thinking about it all the time i was writting this. Was just about to ask what story when i remembered.

[Brainache]

All his three manifold stories had huge gaping errors in them. For one.

I also remember some stuff in the Xeelee Sequence, but not as much as in the manifold series.

And i've only read those two series by him.


From the Xeelee Sequence he does the woo thing and explain how everything must be observed(from quantum mechanics), the woo thing being that it has to be a human that does the observation. Basicly, untill a human has gone around(At the end of time) and watched everything, all artifacts, etc, the history is still in flux as to what has happened. I guess it doesn't have to be a human, might have been a Qax or a Xeelee as well, but, it was some sentient being that had to do it.

From the manifold series the "Carter Catastrophe" is used as being something real.


http://www.anthropic-principle.com/

As in, because you and me are both alive right now(which is statisticaly inprobable if the human race will go on for some 60 billion years more) it means that the human race will end soon.

In the book it is some 150-200 years away. Or maybe it was less.

The problem with the argument above is, of course. That for it to make sence you and me have to somehow be "special". In reality all the balls in the urn would just be red, and have nothing to distinguish them. So after you have taken 5 balls you still have no idea if there was 10 to begin with, or 1000.

And yes, it really bothered me a LOT while reading those books.

Good enough for you? :D

Umm I think that statistics thing is a plot device. If you are going to get all huffy about SF books with unrealistic plot devices, maybe you should stick to reading text books.

Don't get me started on "psychohistory", FTL, positronic brains, force fields, transporter beams, time travel, anti-gravity, galactic empires, or any one of a thousand other concepts in so-called "Hard SF". None of them work as real science in our current understanding.

Expecting an SF author to stick to the laws of physics as currently understood is just silly.

It is fiction, not science. It should be enjoyed as a story, not held to some standard of scientific rigour. If it fails to entertain, then it fails as fiction. It can't fail as scientific fact, because it isn't supposed to be scientific fact.


Oh and did anyone mention Brian Aldiss? I like his early stuff and his anthologies. His "Billion Year Spree" is a pretty good reference book for finding highlights from the pulps.

[tomgv15]

Go wacky with Rudy Rucker. Software, Wetware, Freeware and Realware.

[Morwen]

Oooh, Lem! Did someone mention Stanislaw Lem? Either you hate him or love him, but he's certaintly interesting.

[TobiasTheViking]

Umm I think that statistics thing is a plot device. If you are going to get all huffy about SF books with unrealistic plot devices, maybe you should stick to reading text books.

Don't get me started on "psychohistory", FTL, positronic brains, force fields, transporter beams, time travel, anti-gravity, galactic empires, or any one of a thousand other concepts in so-called "Hard SF". None of them work as real science in our current understanding.

Expecting an SF author to stick to the laws of physics as currently understood is just silly.

It is fiction, not science. It should be enjoyed as a story, not held to some standard of scientific rigour. If it fails to entertain, then it fails as fiction. It can't fail as scientific fact, because it isn't supposed to be scientific fact.


Oh and did anyone mention Brian Aldiss? I like his early stuff and his anthologies. His "Billion Year Spree" is a pretty good reference book for finding highlights from the pulps.

Ehm, did you totally disregard my first post on this subject?

I specificaly stated, and i quote.

Stephen Baxter bothers me with all his errors.

In normal scifi i don't care if there is stuff that goes contrary to science. But when you try to make hard scifi, and work with all the real theories and stuff like that. Then it really bothers me when your science is wrong.

Which it, unfortunatly, is with Stephen Baxter.

In some books i don't care at all. For instance in Dune. In some books i do care. Like Rama. Depends on what one is trying to accomplish. Either one justs want to tell a story, and that is fine with me (and the science is so so) or one is trying to make a story based on science, in which case it shouldn't have big gaping holes.

[Brainache]

Ehm, did you totally disregard my first post on this subject?

I specificaly stated, and i quote.



In some books i don't care at all. For instance in Dune. In some books i do care. Like Rama. Depends on what one is trying to accomplish. Either one justs want to tell a story, and that is fine with me (and the science is so so) or one is trying to make a story based on science, in which case it shouldn't have big gaping holes.

But I don't assume that Baxter is writing such hard SF with the Manifold series. I think he is telling great SF stories. Why do you assume he is writing a science text?
I like the talking squid idea.
I like the successive extinction waves idea.
I even kind of like Reid Malenfant as a character.
I wouldn't call Manifold really hard SF and so I don't understand your complaint about holes in the science.

I have nothing personal against commies either.

[TobiasTheViking]

But I don't assume that Baxter is writing such hard SF with the Manifold series. I think he is telling great SF stories. Why do you assume he is writing a science text?
I like the talking squid idea.
I like the successive extinction waves idea.
I even kind of like Reid Malenfant as a character.
I wouldn't call Manifold really hard SF and so I don't understand your complaint about holes in the science.

I have nothing personal against commies either.
I agree with the squid and succesive extinction things.. Malenfant, i'm kinda indifferent towards him.

I guess i just expected hard SF, maybe i shouldn't have. :D


I have nothing personal against non-commies either. :)

[ArmillarySphere]

If you like psychological SF, try A canticle for Leibowitz or Elizabeth Moon's The Speed of Dark

Tobias, if you've read the latter I'd be very interesting in hearing your views. It tries to describe autism "from the inside", but I'm not sure how good a job it does.

[Genesius]

How about Larry Niven's "Known Space" stories? Or any of his books with Jerry Pournelle? Once a friend told me I simply had to read Stephen King's The Stand. After I read it, I handed it back and told him if he wanted an end-of-the-world story, he should read Lucifer's Hammer.

Also anything by Robert F. Forward.

Also also Encounter With Tiber, by Buzz Aldrin & John Barnes.

[Parsman]

Anything by Orson Scott Card - his Ender's Game books or my own favourite "Wyrms" which isn't the book you think it is at the start

[TobiasTheViking]

If you like psychological SF, try A canticle for Leibowitz or Elizabeth Moon's The Speed of Dark

Tobias, if you've read the latter I'd be very interesting in hearing your views. It tries to describe autism "from the inside", but I'm not sure how good a job it does.

Never heard of it, i am currently in the middle of some rather big novels so it will have to wait a bit. I will put it on my list though, and you can pop me a message and ask.. i'll get to it in due time. :)

If, however, you want to make a short summery/review i could post it on my site and ask people for their thoughts. :)

[chance]

Rather fond of the works of John Wyndham myself, memorable works include: The Day Of The Triffids,The Midwich Cuckoos, and my all-time favourite Chocky.

[CriticalThanking]

I will leave it to others to recommend specific authors or series. One thing to consider is The Year's Best Science Fiction Stories series, edited by Gardener Dozois. There are plenty of known and unknown sci fi writers. And you will get a real spread of themes and styles. It may lead you in directions you never expected. You can sometimes pick up the hardbacks at good prices at Half Price Books or similar stores.

CT

[orpheus]

Thank you, all, for the wonderful recommendations. I must get me to a bookshop, pronto.

Oooh, Lem! Did someone mention Stanislaw Lem? Either you hate him or love him, but he's certaintly interesting.

Actually, I mentioned him in my first post. I'm a big fan. For other fans out there, you might be interested in the several interviews with Lem that exist on the internet. (I don't have links handy, but I'll try to find them.) Really powerful mind and original thinker.

[antihippy]

Rather fond of the works of John Wyndham myself, memorable works include: The Day Of The Triffids,The Midwich Cuckoos, and my all-time favourite Chocky.

Oh man, I haven't read any Wyndham in ages. I have a short story collection of his themed round time travel. It's very good.

To the wider topic:

I'd also recommend, if you can get a hold of it, the short story Collection Nova Scotia (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nova-Scotia-Anthology-Scottish-Speculative/dp/1841830860/sr=8-36/qid=1158657247/ref=sr_1_36/202-7017912-2082234?ie=UTF8&s=gateway). Very good scottish short story collection. Worth it for 'Pisces Ya Bass' if nothing else.

[Dr Adequate]

No-one's mentioned LeGuin? She reminds me a bit of the little girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead, but it's well worth reading The Lathe of Heaven, The Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, The Wind's Twelve Quarters and The Compass Rose.

Fred Pohl's Gateway and Gladiators at Law (with Kornbluth). Keith Roberts' Pavane (OK, technically that's alternate history). For a recent book which ought to be a classic, try Souls in the Great Machine by Sean McMullen.

I'll second A Canticle for Leibowitz, and Ian M Banks (the best ones are The Player of Games, Inversions and Against a Dark Background).

As for the man Baxter, I read one of his thrillers lately in which in the first few pages he explains how Intelligent Design is proved by blood-clotting proteins, blah-de-blah. I flung the book across the room.

[Darat]

And now that you mention it, there's a robot short story with aliens on Jupiter as well. Pretty good story, actually.

But I was thinking about his novels.

The "Lucky Starr" juveniles also have aliens.

[Brainache]

As for the man Baxter, I read one of his thrillers lately in which in the first few pages he explains how Intelligent Design is proved by blood-clotting proteins, blah-de-blah. I flung the book across the room.

I somehow doubt you are referring to the same Baxter. The Baxter who wrote "Evolution" would not be talking ID. If he was I would join you in a book flinging party.

[Angus McPresley]

But I don't assume that Baxter is writing such hard SF with the Manifold series. I think he is telling great SF stories. Why do you assume he is writing a science text?
I like the talking squid idea.
I like the successive extinction waves idea.
I even kind of like Reid Malenfant as a character.
I wouldn't call Manifold really hard SF and so I don't understand your complaint about holes in the science.

I have nothing personal against commies either.


I thought Manifold: Time / Space / Origin were Great / Good / Crap, respectively. I just finished the latter last week, thanks to some serious skimming.

And I have to say, I treat Baxter like the original poster treats Dick. I read him fast and try to glean the ideas. As far as the writing goes: well, he tries, and he's improved, but I just don't think he's a good prosist.

But I keep coming back to him, because he thinks bigger than anyone, and occasionally manages to excite me about the conquest of space. And that counts for something. Check out his "The Light of Other Days" (written w/Arthur C. Clarke) for another worthy read.

And let me recommend a writer who a) gets the science right, b) can construct a sentence, and c) (in spite of a and b) writes clearly and understandably: Ted Chiang. He's actually only written short stories, and only about a dozen or so, but half of them are absolute gems.

Oh yeah: Greg Egan can write too, and is one of the rare writers who is actually improving as the years go on. His early stuff is good; his later stuff, even better. IMO.

[merentha]

I'd like to recommend C.S. Friedman's This Alien Shore. Well plotted with an interesting choice of characters including a girl with multiple-personality disorders and who is being pursued by dangerous corporate entities who want what's in her brain, as well as a computer expert with Aspergers and who is trying to solve the mystery of a deadly computer virus that's killing the outpilots.

I'll also second the recommendations for Iain M. Banks's Culture series. The Player of Games is definitely the easiest book to get into the world. I'm currently midway through Use of Weapons and I want to get myself a personal droid like Skaffen-Amtiskaw.

[Morrigan]

I just started Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. So far, so good, I would recommend it.

The Otherland series by Tad Williams is excellent sort-of cyberpunk (City of Golden Shadow is the first volume). Highly recommended.

Avoid anything by Orson Scott Card. Anyone who recommends Ender's Game to you needs to be hanged, drawn, and quartered. And not necessarily in that order.

[Loss Leader]

I realize it's prosaic to say so, but William Gobson's Neuromancer is just about as good as any novel - sci-fi or otherwise - ever written. It also may be the most important sci-fi novel of the last 30 years.

[Morrigan]

I really despise Neuromancer. What a complete waste of trees.

[Brainache]

I really despise Neuromancer. What a complete waste of trees.

For some reason I preferred the sequels Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive.
I liked Gibson's shorter stuff in Burning Chrome.

[Morrigan]

The only other Gibson book I've read was The Difference Engine, and it was nearly as bad. Maybe worse. I don't know, one is a pile of vomit and the other is a pile of feces, either way, I want the hours of my life spent reading that tripe back. :mad:

[Almo]

Dune series, the original 6. Good stuff. Hardcore, dense, dry at times. But most excellent. When I finished the last one, I thought, "Well, that's it for sci-fi. Guess I'll try LotR and get fantasy out of the way."

Well, not really. But Dune is sort of like that. A towering monument of human imagination.

[Almo]

Asimov (Foundation, Robots etc.)
Iain M. Banks (Player of Games et. al.)
Frank Herbert (Dune)
Robert Heinlein

Asmiov is my great first love, but I quickly got turned on to many others.

Player of Games bugged me, because I didn't feel Mr. Banks has much of a grasp on game design. I liked the narrative structure and plot, but I really wasn't impressed with his descriptions of the game Azad.

[ZirconBlue]

Dune...dry at times.

:) Pun intended?

[Almo]

:) Pun intended?

No, actually! :D Good one!

[whitefork]

Read Labyriths by Jorge Luis Borges.
Yeah, I know it's not science fiction. Read it anyway.

[Winterfrost]

Recently I've discovered Robert J. Sawyer (I've just translated one of his books) and he's not half bad. Daring and "hard" SF. There's lots of stuff out there.

I second Sawyer. I've only read The Terminal Experiment all the way through, but I've read bits and pieces of other things he's written. Definitely one of the more thought-provoking sci-fi authors I've read.

[IllegalArgument]

Diaspora by Greg Egan

Very very good hard science fiction

[Foolmewunz]

Heinlein needs a special footnote. His heavyweight fans amongst sci-fi authors cringe at Stranger in a Strange Land. Mucho woo! If you can suspend your personal beliefs (assuming you're anti-woo), it's a fun book, but like Doc A's reaction to Baxter, I threw it across the room and knocked over a half-cup of coffee! I had the same reaction to Sturgeon's More Than Human.

Both are authors I enjoy, but it took me years to pick up another of their works. (Sturgeon redeemed himself IMHO by being the writer for The Trouble With Tribbles episode of the original Star Trek series.)

A similar talented writer who crossed the line and p*** you off?
Connie Willis - To Say Nothing of the Dog and Doomsday Book are just plain damned good. I can't recommend them highly enough. But then she starts going completely woo in Lincoln's Dreams and then finally Passages, which seems ghost-written by Sylvia Browne! At that point I signed-off forever.

For anthologies - find reprint or originals of Harlan Ellison's Dangerous Visions. Might be the best primer of the Sci-Fi renaissance in the 60's. Ellisons own works, especially A Boy and His Dog, are also excellent.

[orpheus]

Read Labyriths by Jorge Luis Borges.
Yeah, I know it's not science fiction. Read it anyway.

Borges is one of my favorites. I don't know anyone who so inventively manages to pack infinity into a handful of pages.

[negativ]

I'm by no means an expert on sci-fi, and I share the OP's general sentiment.

I really loved Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan", and make a habit of recommending it to everyone. I also liked Azimov's "I, Robot", but that may have more to do with my arguably pathological fascination with humanoid robots than with the literary merits of the stories.

[Genesius]

I'm by no means an expert on sci-fi, and I share the OP's general sentiment.

I really loved Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan", and make a habit of recommending it to everyone. I also liked Azimov's "I, Robot", but that may have more to do with my arguably pathological fascination with humanoid robots than with the literary merits of the stories.


Obviously you didn't like "I, Robot" enough to get the author's name right.

It's "Asimov".



We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.

:)

[fuelair]

Heinlein needs a special footnote. His heavyweight fans amongst sci-fi authors cringe at Stranger in a Strange Land. Mucho woo! If you can suspend your personal beliefs (assuming you're anti-woo), it's a fun book, but like Doc A's reaction to Baxter, I threw it across the room and knocked over a half-cup of coffee! I had the same reaction to Sturgeon's More Than Human.

Both are authors I enjoy, but it took me years to pick up another of their works. (Sturgeon redeemed himself IMHO by being the writer for The Trouble With Tribbles episode of the original Star Trek series.)

A similar talented writer who crossed the line and p*** you off?
Connie Willis - To Say Nothing of the Dog and Doomsday Book are just plain damned good. I can't recommend them highly enough. But then she starts going completely woo in Lincoln's Dreams and then finally Passages, which seems ghost-written by Sylvia Browne! At that point I signed-off forever.

For anthologies - find reprint or originals of Harlan Ellison's Dangerous Visions. Might be the best primer of the Sci-Fi renaissance in the 60's. Ellisons own works, especially A Boy and His Dog, are also excellent.

Can't be certain, but maybe they were going for the money!! And, in Heinleins' case, he was trying to push a philosophy - well a version of a philosophy anyway especially in his later books. And I have good reason to believe (MidAmericon) that he enjoyed tweaking certain fans!!

[IllegalArgument]

If you're interested in more character driven sci-fi.

Armor by John Steakley
http://www.amazon.com/Armor-John-Steakley/dp/0886773687/sr=1-1/qid=1159105932/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2851231-1304142?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Tricky]

Brin, Brin and more Brin. (David Brin I mean)

Great aliens? Read his Uplift series book (Especially Startide Rising, one of the most award-winning books in sci-fi). Historical extrapolation? Try Earth, the best near-future novel since Brave New World. Philosophical? Kiln People has a good look at the question of self, embedded in a private detective tale. (People can make thinking but temporary copies of themselves in order to do their dirty work for them.) Funny? The Practice Effect takes an outrageous premise and runs with it. And if you only saw the movie of "The Mailman", just try to put that talentless jerk Kevin Costner out of your mind. The book is better by orders of magnitude. His short stories are also great. I've linked Those Eyes (http://www.davidbrin.com/thoseeyes1.html)several times when some UFO nut gets on the site here.

Of course, you can't go wrong with Asimov either.

[Morrigan]

Dune series, the original 6. Good stuff. Hardcore, dense, dry at times. But most excellent. When I finished the last one, I thought, "Well, that's it for sci-fi. Guess I'll try LotR and get fantasy out of the way."

Well, not really. But Dune is sort of like that. A towering monument of human imagination.
Completely agreed. Everyone needs to read Dune, the whole series. God-Emperor is the dullest one, but it's worth going through it for the last two which are excellent and quite underrated.

Heinlein needs a special footnote. His heavyweight fans amongst sci-fi authors cringe at Stranger in a Strange Land. Mucho woo! If you can suspend your personal beliefs (assuming you're anti-woo), it's a fun book, but like Doc A's reaction to Baxter, I threw it across the room and knocked over a half-cup of coffee!
Huh? Granted I'm about half-way through the book only, but I don't detect any "woo".... the closest thing I saw about that was Jubal's ambivalence towards hard atheism, and I'd hardly consider that being "woo".

Please no spoilers though. I'm not finished with the book.

[Foolmewunz]

Completely agreed. Everyone needs to read Dune, the whole series. God-Emperor is the dullest one, but it's worth going through it for the last two which are excellent and quite underrated.


Huh? Granted I'm about half-way through the book only, but I don't detect any "woo".... the closest thing I saw about that was Jubal's ambivalence towards hard atheism, and I'd hardly consider that being "woo".

Please no spoilers though. I'm not finished with the book.

Totally agree on the original Dune. I lost interest in the sequels, maybe just because they don't hold a candle to the original. But I have to say I really like the prequels. They were bound to disappoint in some fashion, but I think they had more the flavor of Dune than not.

Stranger in a Strange Land.... Let's wait 'til you finish.

[Morrigan]

I disagree, Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune are the best of the series after the first novel. Great stuff. I avoid the prequels, though. It's not only not canon and contradicts the Dune mythos, but also, a reliable source told me to stay away. :)

About Stranger in a Strange Land: ok, I'll get back to you on that.

[MortFurd]

Someone mentioned C.J. Cherryh, and I'd go along with that - with restrictions. Ignore the fantasy. She's written a lot of that too. Cyteen isn't bad, and the Pride of Chanur is pretty good. I liked the two stories related to the Hellburner development - that would be Heavy Time and Hellburner. There's some stories from that series that I've yet to get. Living in Germany kind of makes english language novels expensive.

If you can find an anthology with "A Boy and his Dog" in it, I'd suggest you read it. Just be prepared for one hell of a twist. I don't know how well the film with Don Johnson actually captured the story - I've never seen it.

David Brin's The Practice Effect is a pretty fun story. Remember that, it is just fun and not to be taken seriously.

If you can, find Orson Scott Card's "Eye for Eye." It isn't what you'd call hard SF, but I liked it.

Asimov, yes. I'm hard pressed to think of anything I didn't like that he wrote. If you can find it, get a copy of the "I, Robot" collection. All robot stories (obvously.) My favorite from that collection is Al-76 goes Astray.

I liked Heinlein's juveniles when I was a kid. Red Planet, Have Spacesuit will Travel, Between Planets. Good stuff. I also like the Lazarus Long stories.

Jerry Pournelle has some good stuff. King David's Spaceship, The Mote in God's Eye, The Moat around God's Eye. Also the John Christian Falkenberg stories.

David Drake's "Hammer's Slammers" books. Good stuff if you are into the military and what men (and women) do when faced with death and combat. Starliner is good, and Redliners. Also check out his Lt. Leary stories.

Pohl's Gateway stories are good. There's like three or four novels that go together.

M.K. Wren wrote a really good series. The Sword of the Lamb, The Shadow of the Swan, and The House of the Wolf. Very good stuff.

[ZirconBlue]

Asimov, yes. I'm hard pressed to think of anything I didn't like that he wrote. If you can find it, get a copy of the "I, Robot" collection. All robot stories (obvously.) My favorite from that collection is Al-76 goes Astray.


IIRC, all of the stories from I, Robot (plus some) are contained in the newer collection, The Complete Robot.

[alfaniner]

If you're interested in more character driven sci-fi.

Armor by John Steakley
http://www.amazon.com/Armor-John-Steakley/dp/0886773687/sr=1-1/qid=1159105932/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2851231-1304142?ie=UTF8&s=books

Sorry, I have to speak up to say -- I hated that one. Bad ripoff of Starship Troopers.

[IllegalArgument]

Sorry, I have to speak up to say -- I hated that one. Bad ripoff of Starship Troopers.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I loved it. :)

[Foolmewunz]

If you can find an anthology with "A Boy and his Dog" in it, I'd suggest you read it. Just be prepared for one hell of a twist. I don't know how well the film with Don Johnson actually captured the story - I've never seen it.


Possibly the worst sci fi movie ever, considering how great the novella is. They had to pad it, so inserted an incredibly bad and totally out of synch sub-plot of a utopian community living underground.... Truly horrible. I have to go look up Ellison and see what he has to say about what he did to his story. He's not known for being quiet. I'm sure he didn't have any control over the movie, but I may be wrong.

[MortFurd]

Possibly the worst sci fi movie ever, considering how great the novella is. They had to pad it, so inserted an incredibly bad and totally out of synch sub-plot of a utopian community living underground.... Truly horrible. I have to go look up Ellison and see what he has to say about what he did to his story. He's not known for being quiet. I'm sure he didn't have any control over the movie, but I may be wrong.
The underground community was mentioned in the novella, but wasn't developed. The girl had to come from soemwhere. :)

I always wondered about that movie. I saw it advertised on TV something like ten years after I read the novella, but I didn't get to see it.

[Foolmewunz]

If you remember the book with as much fondness as you apparently do (citing it twenty-something years after first reading it), then you'd absolutely detest the movie.
I did look a little bit into Ellison's reaction, but since he shows up in so many places, I haven't been able to nail down any comments. The director, LQ Jones, says Harlan loved it. Apocryphal comments that I'm trying to track down, though, say he later recanted. Can't be sure. Ellison's a cynic and he might've said anything to sell the thing to the movie going public.

What I did find out that I wasn't aware of, is that A Boy and His Dog was the direct inspiration for Mad Max. That's interesting enough.

Apologies to other posters.... this wasn't meant to be a movie board. Ignore the above. Go buy a copy of A Boy and His Dog, though. And death unto anyone who gives away the ending.:(

[Gargoyle]

Must push for Philip K. Dick!

I recommend Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said
The Man In The High Castle
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
and (of course)
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
as well as all the other books he has written :D

[Mechbob]

If any one here on a skeptics site wants to read Sci-FI there are three authors you must start with:
Robert A Heilein---"if it can't be proven mathmaticaly, it ain't true."
Isaac Asimov----low elevation astro physics can be fun
Carl Sagan,,,yes, Carl Sagan::"Contact":: with billions of stars it could be true.

[Morrigan]

Stranger in a Strange Land.... Let's wait 'til you finish.

So I finished it, and I'm still not sure what is so infuriatingly "woo" about it. Was it Smith's religion, or the implication that divination can be real (despite astrology being bunk)?
Please elaborate.

[Davo]

The culture series by Ian M Banks are a great read, recommended.

His non sci-fi novels are pretty good as well

[Didaktylos]

Julian May: Intervention, Milieu and Exiles cycle

Anne McCaffrey: Pegasus and Tower cycles, Dragonriders of Pern sequence

David Weber: Honor Harrington series.

[Mojo]

Must push for Philip K. Dick!

I recommend Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said
The Man In The High Castle
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
and (of course)
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
as well as all the other books he has written :DEspecially Martian Time-Slip

[Almo]

I just started Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. So far, so good, I would recommend it.

The Otherland series by Tad Williams is excellent sort-of cyberpunk (City of Golden Shadow is the first volume). Highly recommended.

Avoid anything by Orson Scott Card. Anyone who recommends Ender's Game to you needs to be hanged, drawn, and quartered. And not necessarily in that order.

Stranger in a Strange land was a strange book, but I liked it. I had the unabridged version. The one bummer is the Heinlen tends to take social commentary, put it in quote, and alledge it to be dialog. But that's okay. It's just his style. Still a good book. It makes some excellent points about the nature of conjuring.

Ender's Game is cool. Sue me. :)

[Almo]

Completely agreed. Everyone needs to read Dune, the whole series. God-Emperor is the dullest one, but it's worth going through it for the last two which are excellent and quite underrated.

Quick note about Dune series: I know at least one person whose favorite is each of the original 6. My favorite was Children, followed by God Emperor, I think. Blert's (occasional poster here) favorite is Heretics. Trena's favorite was Messiah. They all seem to appeal in slightly different ways.

Lesson: read all 6 before deciding. :)

[Morrigan]

What is the difference between the abridged and unabridged version of Stranger in a Strange Land?

My favourite Dune is probably the first one, but the last two are possibly just as good.

[Didaktylos]

What is the difference between the abridged and unabridged version of Stranger in a Strange Land?

Essentially, the publisher thought it was too long to sell, so Heinlein pruned it down to a more "acceptable" length. His widow later found the original version among his papers, and when she renewed the copyright on his works, the ooportunity to issue the original version was taken.

[Morrigan]

Well, I sort of *figured* the unabridged version would be longer... what I'm interested in is what the extra content is about. :P

[alfaniner]

How about Battlefield Earth? Not that bad as pulp sci-fi goes, and thick enough to kill several hours. Still, I'm embarassed to ever have put money in those particular coffers (I didn't know at the time).

[Trantor]

I would recommend:

The Foundation Series - by Issac Asimov. In my opinion, the best sci-fi series ever.

The Rama Series - by Arthur C. Clarke

The first two Dune books - by Frank Herbert

[Didaktylos]

Well, I sort of *figured* the unabridged version would be longer... what I'm interested in is what the extra content is about. :P

There isn't any extra content as such - the abridged version is just written more tersely (at some cost to subtlety in shades of meaning).

more detailed info here (http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/works/novels/strangervsstranger.html)

[Limbo9]

Lots of great recommendations. I have one that is a major work of SF, a classic which is generally overlooked.

The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester. One of the greatest writers of SF. One of my all-time favorite books.

http://www.amazon.com/Stars-My-Destination-Vintage/dp/0679767800/sr=1-1/qid=1161271271/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8381618-1654535?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Morrigan]

I see. Thanks for the link!

[aries]

HI :)

First, let me state that I too love sci.-fi novels and stuff like that :)

However, since mostly male writers have been mentioned I would like to
point your all in the direction of these outstanding female writers:

Ursula K. Le Guin --- she's not just the author of the fantasy books about
Get, the wizard of Earthsea. (IIRC, the wizard and magick of the series are more to demonstrate and prove a point about people living in a different society than our)

Ms. Guin's books are not so much about technology. She is more interesting in describing various societies and the relationships between the people in these societies.

Doris Lessing --

and some others I unfortunately have forgotten.

[LaPalida]

Edgar Rice Burroughs novels about John Carter of Mars.

A New Dawn: The Complete Don A. Stuart Stories (This has his story "Who Goes There?" that the Carpenter's "The Thing" is based on)

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

The Gormenghast Novels by Mervyn Peake (gothic fantasy)

The Worm Ouroboros by Eric Rucker Eddison

Logan's Run by William F. Nolan

Stuff by H. G. Wells

Stuff by Ray Bradbury

Roadside Picnic by Strugatsky brothers and some other stuff

It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis

Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner

Day of the Triffids and The Chrysalids by John Wyndham

The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner

The Crow Road by Iain Banks and other stuff by him

Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

Stuff by Roger Zelazny

Stuff by Stanislaw Lem

Mikhail Bulgakov also wrote some sci-fi like Fatal Eggs and Heart of a Dog

[logical muse]

Melbourne author Max Barry (http://www.maxbarry.com/)'s Jennifer Government (http://www.amazon.com/Jennifer-Government-Max-Barry/dp/1400030927/) is a good read.

Here's his wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Barry).

From amazon.com:

In the horrifying, satirical near future of Max Barry's Jennifer Government, American corporations literally rule the world. Everyone takes his employer's name as his last name; once-autonomous nations as far-flung as Australia belong to the USA; and the National Rifle Association is not just a worldwide corporation, it's a hot, publicly traded stock. Hack Nike, a hapless employee seeking advancement, signs a multipage contract and then reads it. He discovers he's agreed to assassinate kids purchasing Nike's new line of athletic shoes, a stealth marketing maneuver designed to increase sales. And the dreaded government agent Jennifer Government is after him.

The book's been optioned by Section 8 Films.

And finally, the author has created a "nation simulation (http://www.nationstates.net/)" game based on this book.

[Comsat Angel]

LaPalida beat me to it, but i would recommend anything by the Strugatsky Brothers; "Roadside Picnic" was the, shall we say, inspiration for the film "Stalker". Novels that are very definitely Russian, and different.
"Guzliar Wonders" is a collection of short stories by another Russian author whose name escapes me, but is frequently very funny.
"The Master and Margarita" is Mikhail Bulgakov's best-known work, not really sci-fi, not really sure what to call it. "The Fatal Eggs" is very dark comedy.

[metacristi]

Some books which I still remember from my childhood (less 'Timeline'):


Asimov The End of Eternity

A. E. van Vogt The Weapon Store of Isher and The Weapon Makers

Herbert Franke The Orchid Cage

Gerard Klein The Overlords of War

M. Crichton Timeline


Classical but good.

[KilgoreTrout]

A. E. van Vogt The Weapon Store of Isher and The Weapon Makers


If anyone is in the Elyria, Ohio area, you can find a whole shelf of A. E. van Vogt paperbacks at the video and used book store called "Bookseller", near Big Lots. If I remember correctly, many of them are first editions and cost less than a dollar each.

[asthmatic camel]

The Gormenghast Novels by Mervyn Peake (gothic fantasy)


Nonononono. Awful, tedious, navel-gazing dross. Don't read these books unless you're a masochist. :(

[ClintonHammond]

William Gibson's "Neuromancer" (And a few other books) is one of the main reasons why there was nothing new in a movie like "The Matrix". It was a very important book in the mid 80's, but suffered what all good, 'cutting edge' suffers from in this world, devoid of bohemias, a wicked short shelf-life. The whole cyberpunk 'genre' was gone hardly before it even got here. The prefix 'cyber' has gone the way of the prefix 'electro' from the 50's. ( I don't think that 'cyber' even lasted half as long)

I find it interesteing to reread it now.... a book where the main character hardly even exists in the story. He's a total void in the tale.

"Pattern Recognition", Gibson's latest book is amazing!!

Frank Herbert's "The White Plague"... Dated, but wonderful. Blows all of his Dune tripe outa the water (I'll grant "Dune"... The only one he really wanted to write... The sequels he only wrote because they backed a dump-truck fulla money up to his door... And the less said about that coat-tail riding spew his kid is publishing, the better))

"Bimbos Of The Death Sun" is a MUST read for all walks of "Geek-life". A murder mystery at a Sci-fi convention! You'll see everybody you know in that book! LOL

"Splinter Of The Mind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster... The BEST book if its ilk by a country mile.

It's not 'fiction' but Marshall T. Savage's "The Millennial Project" is a MUST read for anyone interested in the future of the human race. I wish more than 10 people had ever read it.

:-)

[Morrigan]

William Gibson's "Neuromancer" (And a few other books) is one of the main reasons why there was nothing new in a movie like "The Matrix".

It's probably also the reason why The Matrix sucks so much.

Good gods, how that book SUCKS.

Frank Herbert's "The White Plague"... Dated, but wonderful. Blows all of his Dune tripe outa the water

O RLY?
Haven't read it, but I'm a bit skeptical of a claim like that. ;)

(I'll grant "Dune"... The only one he really wanted to write... The sequels he only wrote because they backed a dump-truck fulla money up to his door...
To quote Claus... "Evidence?"
Personally I find that the last two he wrote were some of his best, at least on par with the first novel.

[ClintonHammond]

The Matrix was a damn good movie. (If it was 10 years too late) It earned critical acclaim, financial success, it seemed to 'do' everything it set out to 'do' as a story. It's sequels sure didn't do it any favours at all... I seem to recall reading somewhere that they'd stole the script for the first.... but wrote the 2nd and 3rd themselves which was proposed as a reason why they were so bad!

"how that book SUCKS"
50 million Elvis Presly fans can't be all wrong. It is held up as the seminal cyberpunk book by an awful lot of people who seem to have devoted large chunks of their lives to becoming educated in just how to discern such things. You may not have LIKED it, and that's fine and jim-dandy. (Nothing is liked by everyone) But let us not confuse Like & Dislike with Good & Bad eh. :-)

It changed my life when I read it brand new, in the same way that the Star Destroyer, rumbling over my head in that theatre seat in 1977 changed my life. It's unfortunate that cyberpunk didn't survive HALF as long.

I will endeavour to source the anecdote regarding Herbert and Dune.... It may have been talked about on "Prisoners Of Gravity" a LONG time ago....

[Morrigan]

People have been known to like bad thing.

No matter how "influential" Neuromancer has been, the fact remains that it's shoddily written, has a minimal plot that just plods along and poorly defined characters with no personality. And if it influenced crap like The Matrix, well, goes to show it -was- garbage to begin with...

[pmckean]

Another vote for fellow Scotsman Iain "Macallan" Banks. His Culture series is epic, thoughtful, character driven space opera. It's a difficult book, but since reading it, "Use of Weapons" is the one just that won't leave me; it deals with humanity, evil, repentance, regret... lots of human emotions that I can identify with.

Greg Bear is a great writer, try "The Forge of God / The Anvil of Stars".

Apologies if anyone has already mentioned this, but don't miss Peter Hamilton. Pick up the massive Night's Dawn trilogy for a damn good read.

[alfaniner]

The Matrix was a damn good movie. (If it was 10 years too late) It earned critical acclaim, financial success, it seemed to 'do' everything it set out to 'do' as a story. It's sequels sure didn't do it any favours at all... I seem to recall reading somewhere that they'd stole the script for the first.... but wrote the 2nd and 3rd themselves which was proposed as a reason why they were so bad!
...

I always thought it was a ripoff of The Wonderland Gambit trilogy, by Jack Chalker. The whole VR box, Alice in Wonderland analogy, "nothing you see is real" all came from that.

[ClintonHammond]

"shoddily written, has a minimal plot that just plods along and poorly defined characters with no personality"
According to whom? You? I guess you're entitled to think so, but there seems to be a weight against you.

[Pipirr]

On the subject of the Matrix totally ripping off William Gibson, Second Life totally ripped off Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.

By which I mean "was inspired by".

It also had a very cool pizza delivery business model.

[ClintonHammond]

I used to play a table-top game called "Car Wars" that had a quarterly magazine devoted to it, called "Autoduel Quarterly".

One of the best pieces of fiction ever included in that mag was a story of a pizza delivery dude. :-)

Why no pizza delivery dude movie yet??? Mad Max meets The Noid!?!?! LOL

"Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson."
What a fantastic 4/5ths of a book. That guy can't write an ending to save his life! What about his "Cryptonomicon"? I have a ton of chums who dig the hell outa that book, but I donno... I just don't grok....

[Deus Ex Machina]

Anything by Orson Scott Card - his Ender's Game books or my own favourite "Wyrms" which isn't the book you think it is at the start

Enders Game was good short story that Card managed to make into a good novel. Personally I cannot stand anything else he wrote.

As for "Wyrms" - not sure if we are talking about the same book but the book "Wyrm" (no "s") by Mark Fabi is excellent reading.

I love Niven's work one of the few to manage to addd some humor to Sci Fi. Ben Bova has some good stuff too.

[ClintonHammond]

"Wild Cards" by George RR Martin

Great 'mutant' stories that aren't as sanitized as X-Men

[asthmatic camel]

Enders Game was good short story that Card managed to make into a good novel. Personally I cannot stand anything else he wrote.

Enders Game is average, the sequels are dreadful. Card even rewrote Enders Game as seen from from Bean's point of view.

:deadhorse

[Buckaroo]

Enders Game is average, the sequels are dreadful. Card even rewrote Enders Game as seen from from Bean's point of view.

:deadhorse

Yeah, I was a little underwhelmed by Ender's Game, despite Card's accurately predicting blog culture. And was it just my impression, or did he spend a disproportionate amount of time describing Ender and some of the other boys gettin' nekkid? Once or twice I could see, given the setting... but Card seemed to really like the idea of his child protaganists going starkers, and made a note of it a few too many times.

I'm just sayin'...

[Morrigan]

You don't want to get me started on the putrid piece of monkey feces that was Ender's Garbage.... grrrrr.

[merentha]

Yeah, I was a little underwhelmed by Ender's Game, despite Card's accurately predicting blog culture. And was it just my impression, or did he spend a disproportionate amount of time describing Ender and some of the other boys gettin' nekkid? Once or twice I could see, given the setting... but Card seemed to really like the idea of his child protaganists going starkers, and made a note of it a few too many times.

I'm just sayin'...

I had the unfortunate experience of reading Card's fantasy Hart's Hope. I thought it was a pedophile's wet dream of adults raping/seducing kids barely into puberty thinly disguised as a story about hate and vengeance. I never finished the book.

[gaiapan]

How about Alistair Reynolds? Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Absolution Gap, Chasm City.

I thought they were pretty good, though it did take me a while to really get into them.

[c4ts]

I realize it's prosaic to say so, but William Gobson's Neuromancer is just about as good as any novel - sci-fi or otherwise - ever written. It also may be the most important sci-fi novel of the last 30 years.

Months later I find this thread, and already someone's mentioned it. Great novel, especially if you like detective fiction, or mohawks.

[c4ts]

On the subject of the Matrix totally ripping off William Gibson, Second Life totally ripped off Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.

By which I mean "was inspired by".

It also had a very cool pizza delivery business model.

How closely does Second Life follow Snow Crash? Does it kick you off the server for hours if you lose a swordfight, and can you use it to brainwash people? If so I'm in...

[asthmatic camel]

How about Alistair Reynolds? Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Absolution Gap, Chasm City.

I thought they were pretty good, though it did take me a while to really get into them.

Another vote for Reynolds; great space opera by a working scientist who knows his stuff.

I don't think anyone's mentioned Vernor Vinge yet, his books are worth a read.

[Gilmar]

Besides many other authors mentioned here, I like Norman Spinrad, one of the "New Wave" SF writers who got his start in the 60s. His protagonists are usually pretty together, though not Heinlein uber-competent. The plot often involves some area of their life that Our Hero hasn't examined well enough, and the Bad Guys get their hooks into him/her thereby. Our Hero triumphs by understanding themselves better & turning the Bad Guys' plot back on them. It sounds kinda touchy-feely when I describe it that way, but it's not.

I also used to read a lot of Piers Anthony, but I think I got tired of the preciousness and puns. He mostly does his Xanth fantasy books these days.

Then there's Cordwainer Smith, who I am not sure how to begin to describe. Nesfa Press has his one novel (under the Smith name) and an omnibus of his short stories.

Theodore Sturgeon must not go unmentioned either.

[ZirconBlue]

I also used to read a lot of Piers Anthony, but I think I got tired of the preciousness and puns. He mostly does his Xanth fantasy books these days.


I was a huge Piers Anthony fan for several years, starting around 6th grade. Either his writing got worse (he was pumping out around 3 novels per year), or I outgrew it. I've been afraid to re-read some of my favorites (Incarnations of Immortality, Aprentice Adept, early Xanth) for fear of finding out it's the latter.