satanic panic

[psy kick]

Were all those stories in the news and written in books about supposed satanic cults abducting children etc. false?
I've read both sides, and I'd like an intelligent answer.
Any evidence at all?

[Psi-less]

Short answer: no. For a much better answer, there's a book by the same name as your thread, "Satanic Panic" by Jeffrey S. Victor, professor of sociology at a branch of SUNY. Two of the most interesting parts of the book are actually appendices--numbers 4 and 5. 4 deals with "Descriptions of Satanic Cult Rumor-Panics in the US and Canada, 1982-1992". It gives the date and location of the rumor-panic followed by a description and possible triggers for the events. Number 5 is "Some Satanic Ritual Abuse Cases, 1983-1987" and gives the date and disposition of the cases. It's a very interesting read, if somewhat frightening for showing how easily these panics can start, spread and how innocent people are damaged by them.

Psi-less

[tim]

In the UK ( specifically in the Sottish Isles) the police removed a number of children from their parents because social workers insisted they were at danger from "satanic abuse".
Not surprisingly, the parents were cleared and the children returned a few weeks later.
Imagine what those parents must have gone through. Is it any wonder that social workers are viewed as enemies by many people?

[SteveW]

One of the most tragic examples of this was the Preschool case in Los Angeles many years ago. The name of the family escapes me at the moment (Mac, something or other). The family was publicly humilated, dragged through the court system, etc. Children were coaxed by zealous social workers, tales of satanic animal sacrifices and sexual abuse abounded. In the end, it was discovered nothing happened. Sort of reminded me of 1689 all over again.

[Psi-less]

Originally posted by SteveW
One of the most tragic examples of this was the Preschool case in Los Angeles many years ago. The name of the family escapes me at the moment (Mac, something or other). The family was publicly humilated, dragged through the court system, etc. Children were coaxed by zealous social workers, tales of satanic animal sacrifices and sexual abuse abounded. In the end, it was discovered nothing happened. Sort of reminded me of 1689 all over again.

I think that was the McMartin Preschool case and it *was* very sad. The Wenatchee "Sex Ring" case here in Washington was as horrid, I think. It accused numerous innocent people and sent lots of kids into foster care for no reason. What's that quote about "those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it"? :p

Psi-less

[MagickalShadow]

<<<<Were all those stories in the news and written in books about supposed satanic cults abducting children etc. false?>>>>

I think that someone here stated that their short answer was "no", but I would have to disagree to a point. If you asked me this question last year I would have said yes, the stories of Satanic Abuse that made the media were basically made up for one reason or another. Let me explain:

The big flashy stories that grabbed the media's attention on this subject have all been proven false save for very, very few. The vast majority of these cases have had no real evidence to support them and often it is discovered years later that the victims have lied about their experiences. Even the Christian Clergy has lied about these cases (Big shock there huh?)

The "Satanic Panic" in the 1980's was brought about by a book called "Michelle Remembers". It was a book about a girl who supposedly had a "recovered memory" of being abused at the hands of a Satanic Cult. This book has since been debunked because no one has ever been able to find any proof or evidence to back the claims in the book. Even many Christian ministers have dismissed the book because the timelines discussed in the book do not match up to either the girl's age or where she lived.

Now, this does not mean that it does not happen at all. It seems that most of the true cases never make it to the national media. Mainly because the true cases are not as flashy as the false ones. When this sort of thing happens, it is usually not with mutilated bodies or someone who is tied down for years and repeatedly raped and forced to have Satan's baby (like the church and media would have you believe).

The most recent and unfortunately true case of Satanic Abuse is the Russell Smith case in Virginia. He has confessed to sexually assaulting his 12 year old daughter and claims that it was for his religious beliefs, which is Satanism. His case even had a spot on America's Most Wanted, but it was only a 3 minute mention. To be honest, most people would not have even heard of it if not for that 3 minute spot. Geraldo Rivera wasn't hot on his case (like he was on every other satanist's case in the 1980's) and Pat Robertson didn't have a mass prayer for his soul. Basically, because this was not a flashy case. The guy molested his daughter and that was it. There was no blood sacrifice or complex ritual involving sex with goats or anything like that. So basically, the media ignored it.

It is my personal belief that of all the cases of so-called Occult Ritual or Satanic Abuse you hear about, ony 2-3% are true. The rest is Christian hysteria or media hype. I have done years of research on the subject and that is basically what I now believe.

~Shadow Villanueva~

[SteveW]

I agree that very. very few instances are true "Satanic" ritualistic killings, abuse, etc. I would imagine the same percentage (perhaps even larger) would hold true for those people who abuse or kill their children because "gawd told them too do it."

[psy kick]

I once read that book by Lauren Stratford whichw as apparantely later disproven.
Johanna Michaelson has a book about children and avoiding evils, one of which is halloween.
She claims she lived next door to a family and when their 3 year old answered the door on Halloween she was so scared by the costumes she dropped dead right there!
No cite, of course...

[aggle_rithm]

Most of the Satanic Abuse stories came about because of quack psychotherapists trying to dredge up hidden memories on the assumption that uncovering them would make their patients "better". As more and more horrid memories were uncovered (invented), the patients strangely failed to get better. In fact, they often got much, much worse. Instead of concluding that this was a bogus therapy, the quacks decided to dig ever deeper, until they came up with the ultimate trauma: Satanic Ritual Abuse!

Of course, it helped to have cultural influences like "Rosemary's Baby" and "Michelle Remembers". It also helped to have group therapy where "victims" could reinforce each other's beliefs.

The bottom line is: If all the murder, rape, and other atrocities supposedly commited by Satanists were so widespread, how come there is NO EVIDENCE? No massive conspiracy can be that airtight. Our criminal investigation techniques are just too good to allow thousands of murders to take place without anyone being reported missing and without any bodies being found.

[SteveW]

[

The bottom line is: If all the murder, rape, and other atrocities supposedly commited by Satanists were so widespread, how come there is NO EVIDENCE? No massive conspiracy can be that airtight. Our criminal investigation techniques are just too good to allow thousands of murders to take place without anyone being reported missing and without any bodies being found. [/B][/QUOTE]

As I said earlier, I think there is much more documented evidence of Xians committing murder, especially of family members, than "satanists." Almost every year a mother murders her children because of God's instruction or to save them from hell.

Serious question - how do the Xian extremists who point at satan worship explain the Xians who murder in the name of their god?

[psy kick]

A good point.
i am a Christian, but wanted some factual answers.
i know better than to ask churches.

So there are people who "worship" satan, but its pretty much like any other religion (sortof).?

[SteveW]

Originally posted by psy kick
A good point.
i am a Christian, but wanted some factual answers.
i know better than to ask churches.

So there are people who "worship" satan, but its pretty much like any other religion (sortof).?

Two cases come to mind, but forgive me, without some research I cannot remember the names but I will look them up and get back to you.

The first was the woman who drowned her kids in a car and the excuse was that god had told her to do it. - It was Texas I want to say though I am most likely incorrect.

The second, and most prominent, was the case of the woman who one by one, tried drowining her kids in the bathtub to save them from damnation.

I will look up the cases and post here unless someone else can site them.

But both were Xians and the killings were obviously motivated by the religion.

[SteveW]

So there are people who "worship" satan, but its pretty much like any other religion (sortof).? [/B][/QUOTE]

I suppose there are some people that "worship" satan just like there are some that "worship" god. Most satan worship, in my opinion, is just mocking Xians. Saying the Mass backwards, sexual connections during the ritual etc.

I doubt if this worship is a valid religion. My experience is that it is practised by disillusioned Xians or goth wannabees.

Anyway, my point is there are many, many more cases in the Xian repetoire than in anything else. Hey, would you want to be alone with a priest nowadays? ;)

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by SteveW


Two cases come to mind, but forgive me, without some research I cannot remember the names but I will look them up and get back to you.

The first was the woman who drowned her kids in a car and the excuse was that god had told her to do it. - It was Texas I want to say though I am most likely incorrect.

The second, and most prominent, was the case of the woman who one by one, tried drowining her kids in the bathtub to save them from damnation.

I will look up the cases and post here unless someone else can site them.

But both were Xians and the killings were obviously motivated by the religion.


One of them is Andrea Yates...

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/01/drownings/

[aggle_rithm]

Originally posted by SteveW



The first was the woman who drowned her kids in a car and the excuse was that god had told her to do it. - It was Texas I want to say though I am most likely incorrect.


If it wasn't God it would have been Buhdda, or aliens, or the CIA, or some other "omnipotent" force that the mentally ill sometimes ascribe their actions to.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by psy kick
I once read that book by Lauren Stratford whichw as apparantely later disproven.
Johanna Michaelson has a book about children and avoiding evils, one of which is halloween.
She claims she lived next door to a family and when their 3 year old answered the door on Halloween she was so scared by the costumes she dropped dead right there!
No cite, of course...
...Sounds like a Snopes.com thing to say... I say that any child with those kinds of insecurities that it drops dead at the site of costumes probably never would have played a very integral part of society in the first place...

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by SteveW
One of the most tragic examples of this was the Preschool case in Los Angeles many years ago.

Doug Linder's Famous Trials page (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/ftrials.htm) has a very interesting outline of the case. The direct link is here (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/mcmartin.html). And yes, it was the McMartin Preschool, and the case lasted from 1987 to 1990.

[KelvinG]

Scott Peterson's defense is trying to claim that Laci Peterson was abducted and killed by a Satanic cult.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA030523PetersonDefenseTheories.html

But Richard Ofshe, author of Making Monsters: False Memories, Psychotherapy, and Sexual Hysteria, says organized satanic cults are a complete myth.

"I think you'd be better off suggesting Saddam Hussein really did it," Ofshe told ABCNEWS.

Ofshe says police departments nationwide created special task forces to investigate cults back in the late 1980s, but in the end, no one was ever able to prove such cults really existed.

Ofshe said the phenomenon known as "satanic panic" was short-lived in the world of law enforcement.


I guess Peterson's defense is banking on the fact that even though the "satanic panic was short-lived in the world of law enforcement", the world of public opinion can still be duped into believing such nonsense.
Expect them to stick to this story, even though they'll never get a scrap of reliable evidence to back it up. When it comes to satanic cults, rumours and vague details are just as effective as real evidence.

[aggle_rithm]

Originally posted by Yahweh

...Sounds like a Snopes.com thing to say... I say that any child with those kinds of insecurities that it drops dead at the site of costumes probably never would have played a very integral part of society in the first place...

Probably not insecurities, probably a congenital heart condition.

If there is any truth to this story, I'll bet it had nothing to do with Halloween.

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by SteveW
One of the most tragic examples of this was the Preschool case in Los Angeles many years ago. The name of the family escapes me at the moment (Mac, something or other). The family was publicly humilated, dragged through the court system, etc. Children were coaxed by zealous social workers, tales of satanic animal sacrifices and sexual abuse abounded. In the end, it was discovered nothing happened. Sort of reminded me of 1689 all over again.

it's very difficult to clear your name even if not indicted

The Klassens (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/05/sex_money040205) are still trying to clear their names almost 17 years after the initial allegations.


Timeline (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/Klassen/)

The taxpayers get the bill when the wrongfully accused sue governments, agencies and justice entities maliciously prosecute people when good evidence is lacking. The Klassens were prosecuted inspite of growing evidence that they were innocent of wrong doing.

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by SteveW
So there are people who "worship" satan, but its pretty much like any other religion (sortof).?

I suppose there are some people that "worship" satan just like there are some that "worship" god. Most satan worship, in my opinion, is just mocking Xians. Saying the Mass backwards, sexual connections during the ritual etc.

I doubt if this worship is a valid religion. My experience is that it is practised by disillusioned Xians or goth wannabees.

Anyway, my point is there are many, many more cases in the Xian repetoire than in anything else. Hey, would you want to be alone with a priest nowadays? ;)

my understanding is that the premise behind Levayan (sp?) satansim is that you aren't actually worshiping anything, but you're using energy in the same way religion proper would.

All of the satanists I've met are the funniet people I know of.

"Hey, N_C, I need to know who the tallest freshman is."
"Um... why?"
"I need a table."
"Um... why?"
" because you can't properly sodomize a table, that's why!"

[Jas]

I'm actually from Martensville, SK, which was the setting for the Sterling trial (involving an unlicensed daycare, a satanic cult, and the police force). There are still people there who believe that babies were roasted and eaten on a BBQ. I went to school with a couple kids (early 20's now) who were involved in that. It's interesting when you see your home town and people you know, playing a prominent part in your roommates book on 'Psychological Deviance'! (although, it is a pretty messed up little town, more than one story from there made national headlines)

I believe that the FBI has never authenticated a single Satanic ritual killing, although they have hundreds reported to them every year.

The other factor, I believe, is mental illness. When someone suffers from a disease such as schizophrenia (among others), they get a VERY distorted view of religion, so often people will say 'Satan told me to do it', (when really it was the illness) and they will get a lot of media coverage as a result. Oddly enough, God seems to instruct a lot of people to kill, however, thsoe cases are presented by the media (if at all), as being psychosis (however it was brought on), whereas when Satan tells someone to do, it's presented as being a very real thing.