I can decipher the doctor's note

[BillyJoe]

http://www.randi.org/images/commentary/200609/15prescription.jpg

James Randi (of no fixed address and indeterminate age :D)

CT abdo/pelvis
with oral
.......contrast
pancreatitis
..........pain

The doctor has ordered a Computerised Tomographic scan (with oral contrast) of Randi's abdomen and pelvis for pain suspected of being caused by pancreatitis.

[T'ai Chi]

What I'm wondering is why Randi, after the doctor gave him that piece of paper, didn't read it over then and there to make sure he understood what it said.

I'd certainly want to know what I'm giving someone to fill when medicines are involved!

[BillyJoe]

It's not a medicine. It's a referral for a radiological procedure.

But, wait, Randi thought it was a prescription as well:


Recently, one of my doctors gave me a prescription to be filled, then promptly went away on vacation. When I presented the prescription, the pharmacist could not read it. I returned to the doctor's office, and found that none of his employees there could read it, either. I had to wait until the doctors vacation was over, so that I could get the prescription filled. When I commented on this to him, he seemed surprised. “Well, that’s the way I write!” he answered. I assure you that that doctor is no longer on the list of those I consult.


Seems the pharmacist couldn't decipher it and neither could any of his doctor's employees. Yet it seems so straight forward to me.
And he says he waited for the doctor to return from vacation before he could get the prescription filled. Yet it is clearly NOT a prescription but a referral for a CT scan.

On the other hand, it is written on, what looks like, a sheet out of a prescription pad!

What gives :confused:

[Infinite]

I agree, seems pretty weird that a doctor would put a CT procedure on a presciption note. There's usually a different form for that type of thing.

[zizzybaluba]

I thought it was weird, too, when my doctor sent me for an MRI and put the order on a standard prescription note. But the radiology center I went to had no qualms about accepting it.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Wonder if the law requiring doctors to print will affect anything.

If it wasn't a prescription, why was he able to 'get it filled' when the doctor came back?

[Groovydoc]

Actually, interestingly enough, this does appear to be the doc's printing. I can say I was tempted to make the same post when the commentary first came out, but had no time. It is perfectly valid to use a prescription pad for orders of this sort, as long as you include all the info needed, in this case name, study, and reason for study.

I'm actually wondering if this was a different script which Mr. Randi happened to have handy as an example of "bad doc writing," rather than the actual undecipherable script (which is probably long gone.)

In any case, I have been guilty of writing almost as bad as that depicted, though I try to always explain to the patient what the script is for. There are docs whose writing is truly deplorable. In my training I ran across one so infamous, his writing was called "Mullarabic" based on his name and his writing's appearance. This continues to be an area docs are encouraged to do better to avoid medication errors.

[Lisa Simpson]

I've had many a medical procedure written out on a prescription pad. MRI, glucose tolerance test, ultrasound, etc.

[BillyJoe]

Okay, Mr. Randi, come clean. :cool:

[rjh01]

Typical. Someone puts a claim on this forum and people here do their best to tear up the claim. Not even James Randi can sneak one through.

What is the date on the form? Is the first digit the year? Otherwise it makes no sense.

Also if it is a referral surely James would know it is a referral rather than a prescription? The doctor should have explained what James Randi should do.

[BillyJoe]

What is the date on the form?I saw that but chose to ignore it because it tended to interfere with my claim that I could decipher the doctor's note. :o

[BillyJoe]

.....oh, and thanks, Mr. Randi, for the birthday wishes. :)

[BillyJoe]

No explanation or correction in this week's commentary :(

[Marc L]

Typical. Someone puts a claim on this forum and people here do their best to tear up the claim. Not even James Randi can sneak one through.

Nor should he be able to. This is a forum of skeptics, after all. We need to hold Randi (and ourselves) to the same standards we hold non-skeptics.

I'd like to point out what I think is obvious (granted, I can be wrong)-Randi didn't post the current prescription because he didn't want to make it public. He's entitled to his privacy

Marc

[BillyJoe]

So, instead, he lets the whole world know that he has a condition suspected of being pancreatitis for which he was ordered a CT scan?
(A common cause for pancreatitis is alcoholism)

(Perhaps the presription was for viagra :D)

Anyway, the problem is that the note he substituted, if that is the case, is very easy to read by almost anyone.


Also, I'm surprised Randi hasn't offered a correction or explanation.

(Perhaps his scouts haven't seen it worthwhile to inform him:( )

[Marc L]

So, instead, he lets the whole world know that he has a condition suspected of being pancreatitis for which he was ordered a CT scan?
(A common cause for pancreatitis is alcoholism)



Yeah, that is a good point.


Anyway, the problem is that the note he substituted, if that is the case, is very easy to read by almost anyone.

And I see your point here, too. Oh well, until he explains it to us (if he does), all we can do is speculate.

Marc

[Ririon]

So, instead, he lets the whole world know that he has a condition suspected of being pancreatitis for which he was ordered a CT scan?
(A common cause for pancreatitis is alcoholism)

(Perhaps the presription was for viagra :D)

Anyway, the problem is that the note he substituted, if that is the case, is very easy to read by almost anyone.


Also, I'm surprised Randi hasn't offered a correction or explanation.

(Perhaps his scouts haven't seen it worthwhile to inform him:( )
IIRC, He very rarely reads the forum. Even this subforum about his comments. Have you emailed him about this?

[BillyJoe]

I thought he had helpers scanning the forum for him - as I said, perhaps they feel this is of little importance to bring to his notice.

Okay, I'll email him - but I wonder how many emails he must get and how many he could possibly respond to. Perhaps his helpers scan his EMAILS rather than the forum?

[Ririon]

I thought he had helpers scanning the forum for him - as I said, perhaps they feel this is of little importance to bring to his notice.

Okay, I'll email him - but I wonder how many emails he must get and how many he could possibly respond to. Perhaps his helpers scan his EMAILS rather than the forum?
That appears to be how things work. From reading his commentaries, it seems like he spends quite some time reading emails.

[Marc L]

I thought he had helpers scanning the forum for him - as I said, perhaps they feel this is of little importance to bring to his notice.

Okay, I'll email him - but I wonder how many emails he must get and how many he could possibly respond to. Perhaps his helpers scan his EMAILS rather than the forum?

He's certainly read, and responded to two emails I've sent him. One with additional information on Martian Astrology, and another about the error I thought I found in the Encyclopedia (though I admit, I still don't get the joke...)

Marc

[BillyJoe]

....and another about the error I thought I found in the Encyclopedia (though I admit, I still don't get the joke...)try us.

[Marc L]

try us.

Well, the intial thread I did is here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64386

While I understand the reference to Martin Gardiner, as well as the publication names, and the state name, I don't get the dates. Randi has Martinet Jardinier living from 1898-1902.

Obviously the dates are a reference to something, and I only did a cursory search on Wiki, but couldn't find anything. I'm probably nuking this (by the way, Geek Goddess, tell your son to get used to that term...), but I would like to know the answer.

Marc

[Pennywise]

Anyway, the problem is that the note he substituted, if that is the case, is very easy to read by almost anyone.


Not really. The only word word I could make out was "oral." Anything else would have been a guess. There is absolutely no excuse for that by a professional who writes prescriptions for drugs that people's lives may depend on.

It's time to start printing them out and signing them if the doctors are too stubborn and arrogant to write legibly. I've known students with crippled hands who could write better than that. I could probably write better than that with my teeth.

[BillyJoe]

I said almost anyone :D

I agree with your other point though.

[tkingdoll]

It's time to start printing them out and signing them if the doctors are too stubborn and arrogant to write legibly. I've known students with crippled hands who could write better than that. I could probably write better than that with my teeth.

I've had printed prescriptions from every doctor I've been to for about 10 years now. To be honest I thought it was now the norm.

[BillyJoe]

Apparently, I have to send an email to Jeff but his inbox is full.
So, I guess that's that, unless his eye catches this: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64703

[ponderingturtle]

I agree, seems pretty weird that a doctor would put a CT procedure on a presciption note. There's usually a different form for that type of thing.

It is not that weird. I have run into such things all the time(Hell I have requested doctors give me a perscription for restaints for transporting potentialy combative patients) and have had issues with not having perscriptions when taking people in for MRI and CT scans.

So in NY that is normal

[Flange Desire]

snip
I'm actually wondering if this was a different script which Mr. Randi happened to have handy as an example of "bad doc writing," rather than the actual undecipherable script (which is probably long gone.)
snip


This is the most likely explanation IMO.

[BillyJoe]

+
Another thought: If he used the script, or referral as the case may be, why does he still have it in his possession. Either the pharmacist or the radiologist must have it.

[Captain Trips]

So, instead, he lets the whole world know that he has a condition suspected of being pancreatitis for which he was ordered a CT scan?
(A common cause for pancreatitis is alcoholism)

Let me point out the operative word here: "A." That is only ONE possible cause of pancreatitis. Another is gall stones. And a CT scan would certainly be in order then. I know because that is exactly what my wife had about a year ago. Pancreatitis, causing SEVERE abdominal pain, with a CT scan run showing gall stones so severe as to be totally blocking the bile duct, causing excess bile remaining in the gall bladder, pressing against the pancreas, resulting in inflamation of the pancreas -- thus, pancreatitis.

Maybe Randi has gall stones? (Interesting, though, that you chose to fixate on only one cause of pancreatitis -- are you so eager to find Randi is an alcoholic that you don't want to investigate other possible reasons for such a diagnosis? Just what kind of a skeptic are you that you only want to find one answer and not all possible answers?)

[BillyJoe]

Let me point out the operative word here: "A." That is only ONE possible cause of pancreatitis. Another is gall stones. And a CT scan would certainly be in order then. I know because that is exactly what my wife had about a year ago. Pancreatitis, causing SEVERE abdominal pain, with a CT scan run showing gall stones so severe as to be totally blocking the bile duct, causing excess bile remaining in the gall bladder, pressing against the pancreas, resulting in inflamation of the pancreas -- thus, pancreatitis.Coincidentally, my father had exactly the same condition causing his pancreatitis. The stone was caught in the end of the bile duct where it joind the bowel. He had it removed via a scope passed through his mouth, esophagus and stomach and into the bowel. How did your wife fair?

Maybe Randi has gall stones? (Interesting, though, that you chose to fixate on only one cause of pancreatitis -- are you so eager to find Randi is an alcoholic that you don't want to investigate other possible reasons for such a diagnosis? Just what kind of a skeptic are you that you only want to find one answer and not all possible answers?)Let me point out that I used that word "A", implying that there are other causes. However, the first thing the doc asked my father was how much alcohol he consumed. So that was my immediate thought when I easily deciphered that note Randi copied. Also, I have attempted to find out from Randi via an email to Jeff who, I was informed acts as an intermediary in these matters. Alas, his inbox is full. I put a request in "Community" alerting Jeff to this fact but have received no response.

regards,
BillyJoe

[Suew0]

Maybe the pharmacist couldn't decipher it because Randi gave him a referral note instead of a prescription. And gave his prescription to the paperboy. :-D