Why people believe weird things

[KarlQuigley]

Using this Forum, I have been searching for the answer to “Why do people believe weird things?” I have read many threads, had replies to my questions, watched some videos and had some good book recommendations (I am doing a lot of book reading, which explains my absence of late- and yet to come).

Thank you everyone.

Though not an expert yet, I think I am getting a clearer picture. May I share my thoughts for comment and/or correction?

During my teens, I tended to believe in Ghosts, UFOs, Telepathy, Astrology, etc. And so did many of my friends. Why? I do not know. I have read similar comments from other Forum members. The only explanation I can offer is that I was told no different and I seemed to lack the capacity to question. Do we all go through this phase?

To keep it simple, and until I know better, I will rephrase the question to “Why do mature people believe weird things?”

In no particular order, here are some of the reasons for Weird Belief - as I understand them.

1) The era of education and influence. What we know now is different to what we knew then. People find it hard to change their views to adapt to new found knowledge. They will cling to and perpetuate (now known to be) myths. They will then attempt to persuade others to believe the same. (Why?) This brings me to…

2) Peer or superior pressure. People believe their peers or who they see as their superior. Someone may be seen as superior because they have a persuasive manner or appearance, rather than superior knowledge. For example, I have many years of training in computers and, when asked, will advise in a matter-of-fact manner but I am often discredited by someone who speaks loudly and forcefully – or happened to be wearing a white coat – or threw in nonsensical technical terms.
I do not yet fully understand why this should be. Any help here?

3) Evolution plays a part. Having evolved intelligence and curiosity, we have also evolved the need to understand life, the universe and everything. When we cannot find an answer, we create one. This is essential so that we can “move on”. Does this sound right?

4) We do not want to die. We fear death. It’s evolution again. To combat this fear we create beliefs in the afterlife and, therefore, religion and the paranormal. How am I doing so far?

5) Now, here is something that I have not read about yet. Money (read Power). While I was studying the Weird Belief question, and beginning to grasp some of the principles, I couldn’t help thinking how I could use this to my advantage. I started thinking how I could profit from this knowledge. How I could influence people to do my bidding. How I could manipulate. How I could rule. Wooh-ha-ha-ha-haaa!

6) Some people are just plain stupid.

To be continued…

Karl Quigley – Still considering point 5.

[SteveGrenard]

You might find answers in a book Why People Believe Weird Things by
Michael Shermer:

http://skepdic.com/refuge/weird.html


Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
by Michael Shermer
(W H Freeman & Co., 1997)

[Foster Zygote]

From the title of your thread I'll assume you've read Shermer's book. But in the unlikely case it was just a coincidence I'll second Steve Grenard's recommendation.

Steven

[El Greco]

One reason I find very widespread is that they just don't care enough to investigate. They just listen to various and often conflicting opinions but they find no reason to search for the truth. If they ever get to the point where they have to search (eg, "does this alternative treatment work ?") they choose the option "let's try it and see". For many people, their jobs and relationships are all they need and want to invest time on.

[blutoski]

One reason I find very widespread is that they just don't care enough to investigate. They just listen to various and often conflicting opinions but they find no reason to search for the truth. If they ever get to the point where they have to search (eg, "does this alternative treatment work ?") they choose the option "let's try it and see". For many people, their jobs and relationships are all they need and want to invest time on.

I find that, too. Or they do a token investigation, and don't solicit others to check their findings or see if there are alternatives they haven't considered yet.

One of the things I'm wrestling with is: how to harness all the good ideas out there while maintaining expertise.

[CFLarsen]

You might find answers in a book Why People Believe Weird Things by
Michael Shermer:

http://skepdic.com/refuge/weird.html

What did you think of it?

[DanishDynamite]

What did you think of it?
Why ask this question?

[Jekyll]

From the title of your thread I'll assume you've read Shermer's book. But in the unlikely case it was just a coincidence I'll second Steve Grenard's recommendation.

Steven

Yeh, but Shermer totally ripped the title off REO speedwagon.

[snooziums]

The answer is simple why people want to believe.

People do not want to accept that they are on some speck of dust compared to the universe, that they are not even a blink of the eye compared to all time, and that humans shall someday become extinct, taking all progress made by humanity with it. Because, if they did, then what would be the point of existing in the first place?

[CFLarsen]

Why ask this question?

Well, since Steve has professed a belief in mediumship, as well as performing experiments on mediumship (some with Gary Schwartz) that - according to Steve - produced evidence of mediumship, I think it is very relevant to know what Steve thought of a book on skepticism he recommends.

[Horatius]

2) Peer or superior pressure. People believe their peers or who they see as their superior. Someone may be seen as superior because they have a persuasive manner or appearance, rather than superior knowledge. For example, I have many years of training in computers and, when asked, will advise in a matter-of-fact manner but I am often discredited by someone who speaks loudly and forcefully – or happened to be wearing a white coat – or threw in nonsensical technical terms.

I think this is a factor because we've only recently (in terms of evolutionary timescales) developed intelligence. Most species that live in packs as we do respond to the alpha-male types, because they're generally more suited to hunting, and fighting off invaders and the like. Most people still react emotionally to such alpha types, rather than rationally.

That people ever follow anyone other than an alpha type is indicative that we can overcome this tendency, but it takes a more active exertion of will, which most people don't tend to do. Emoting is just easier than thinking, and probably will be for quite some time to come.

[Horatius]

You might find answers in a book Why People Believe Weird Things by
Michael Shermer:

http://skepdic.com/refuge/weird.html

I've read most of this book, and from what I've seen, he doesn't seem to really address the central question of his title. He shows pretty clearly how we can know that what the people in question believe is weird, but he never seems to give a satisfactory answer about why they believe it. Did anyone else notice this, or did I miss something in the book?

[SteveGrenard]

I've read most of this book, and from what I've seen, he doesn't seem to really address the central question of his title. He shows pretty clearly how we can know that what the people in question believe is weird, but he never seems to give a satisfactory answer about why they believe it. Did anyone else notice this, or did I miss something in the book?

Bob Carroll's lengthy review does an excellent job of addressing the book's shortcomings. Repeating here:

http://skepdic.com/refuge/weird.html

[Foster Zygote]

Yeh, but Shermer totally ripped the title off REO speedwagon.

I thought he played bass for them.

Steven

[Amapola]

I think part of the reason people believe weird things is sheer laziness. Thinking is hard work; a lot of people try to avoid it. If someone tells them something, they simply believe it rather than try to research the matter. That's much easier than thinking for themselves.

[SteveGrenard]

Amapola
I think part of the reason people believe weird things is sheer laziness. Thinking is hard work; a lot of people try to avoid it. If someone tells them something, they simply believe it rather than try to research the matter. That's much easier than thinking for themselves.


Now that wasn't so hard? According to Kim and Kip on Leno last week reading is really hard work. Kim said its hard work because when you're reading you have to move your eyes.

[snooziums]

I think part of the reason people believe weird things is sheer laziness. Thinking is hard work; a lot of people try to avoid it. If someone tells them something, they simply believe it rather than try to research the matter. That's much easier than thinking for themselves.

Yeah, doing lots of research on the "afterlife" is hard work, and so much research. Most would not know what scientific journals to begin in, so they just wanter to their local church and ask there.

Of course, the easy method to find out what the afterlife is like is to just kill oneself, however, then one might not be able to come back and be stuck there.

So, I guess there is no easy method.

[Amapola]

Amapola


Now that wasn't so hard? According to Kim and Kip on Leno last week reading is really hard work. Kim said its hard work because when you're reading you have to move your eyes.

:D Yes, I have heard reading is really hard work. In fact there are a lot of people who never learn how. My mother used to teach adults to read..... since I love to read I find that really sad. Apparently looking at all those little black marks on a white background can be pretty overwhelming to some people.

I used to work for a newspaper and had to attend various seminars about designing newspapers to be easier to read. There were many interesting studies about just how difficult it can be to get people to read things. I think this reluctance to read helped make first radios and then television so popular. I have concluded that many people prefer to simply be told something, whether weird or not, rather than try to find out for themselves.

But there I go, thinking again. :rolleyes:

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Are you an atheist now Karl?

You ask why people believe weird things yet you yourself believe in God?

[hgc]

4) We do not want to die. We fear death. It’s evolution again. To combat this fear we create beliefs in the afterlife and, therefore, religion and the paranormal. How am I doing so far?
Corollary to this one is we do not want our lives not to have meaning. I think this leads along much the same path to curious beliefs about creator, interventionist gods/aliens and eternal existence. The fact of evolution is, of course, a major threat to meaningful life for some people. Once you have eternal existence, you're gonna be real concerned about the quality of that eternity. Heaven and Hell can be great inducements to existential gymnastics.

[CFLarsen]

Bob Carroll's lengthy review does an excellent job of addressing the book's shortcomings. Repeating here:

http://skepdic.com/refuge/weird.html

What do you think?

[rustytunes]

There is also the scam factor - scam artists can be very clever at conning gullible and even not so gullible people.

[steenkh]

Do not forget that science, and particularly modern science is difficult to comprehend. Not everyone has got a decent science education, and among those who have, not everyone have understood everything they learned.

Practically everybody have to rely on authorities to tell us what is real and what is not. There are very few of us who will ever have the opportunity of testing scientific concepts by themselves. For many people, a sentence like "There is more between Heaven and Earth than the eye can see" conveys a deep truth, because they do not relly understand what their eyes can see, and scientific knowledge is just as mysterious as superstitious claims. It is just a question of which authority to trust.

Religious and alternative authorities are very good at sowing distrust towards scientist authorities. "Evolution is just a theory" is just the right way to plant the seed of distrust, and the toxins that are part of everyday life today, are seen as the responsibility of science, whereas a world free of chemicals is seen as natural and good, and people who advocate "natural" solutions are seen as better authorities.

Once you have the wrong authorities in your head, even if you have not given up science, the road is open for seriously weird thinking.

I see no way around this except a better education. And critical thinking should be an essential part of this education, and not just something that is casually absorbed along the way.

[Jekyll]

I thought he played bass for them.

Steven

Maybe, did I see that on the Mann Show?

[pjh]

It strikes me that a factor for considering is how much trust you place in others.

You regularly come across justifications like 'they can't all be lying/wrong'.

It appears to me that when evaluating evidence, some folks put far more credence in anecdotes and stories, 'trusting' what they're told.

[hgc]

It appears to me that when evaluating evidence, some folks put far more credence in anecdotes and stories, 'trusting' what they're told.... fueled by confirmation bias.

[Jeff Corey]

In teaching critical thinking, I've used Shermer's Weird Things and Sagan's Demon Haunted World, but for a clear description of the psychological mechanisms underlying such beliefs, Gilovich's How We Know What Isn't So
is unbeatable, even if it's a bit dated. A revised edition would be great.

[Cuddles]

I would say that a very important factor is that people don't like being wrong. For some reason most people find it very hard to finish an argument with a simple "I was wrong" and instead go to incredible lengths to make up a reason why they weren't wrong or how it was the other person's fault. This applies to all aspects of life, whether it is about the existence of god or whose turn it was to feed the cats. I think the mark of a true skeptic isn't about investigating or questioning seemingly irrational beliefs (although that is important too), but simply being able to admit to having made a mistake when shown to have done so.

[UKBoy1977]

In teaching critical thinking, I've used Shermer's Weird Things and Sagan's Demon Haunted World, but for a clear description of the psychological mechanisms underlying such beliefs, Gilovich's How We Know What Isn't So
is unbeatable, even if it's a bit dated. A revised edition would be great.

Another great book on the same lines is "Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking." Some overlap with Gilovich but very good nonetheless.

http://www.amazon.com/Don-Believe-Everything-You-Think/dp/1591024080/sr=8-1/qid=1158586176/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9063743-2871142?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Beady]

For some reason most people find it very hard to finish an argument with a simple "I was wrong" and instead go to incredible lengths to make up a reason why they weren't wrong or how it was the other person's fault.

But, being the enlightened individuals that we are, no one ever does anything like that, here on this forum.

[Soapy Sam]

Let me take the obvious step of rewording the question:-
"Why do wierd people believe things?"

Not everyone who believes any one or two odd things is wierd, but my experience is that many people who purport to believe one wooism believe many other, often contradictory notions. Example:- Fans of Von Daniken, often also believe Velikovsky . These two writers are internally inconsistent and have both been proven wrong many times, but more importantly , they are mutually contradictory in many areas: If one is right about everything, the other is wrong about a great deal- yet repeatedly I meet people who claim to be convinced by both.

In addition, such people tend to believe in many, if not all forms of psi, ghosts, Vedic technology, Atlantis etc.

There is a pattern here. First there tends to be a rejection of orthodox views , particularly in sciences like archaeology which demand thorough and lengthy study. Whether the rejection comes from inability to understand, or simple reluctance I don't know.

I can perfectly understand someone believing that extra terrestrial aliens exist and may have visited or may still visit Earth. Stunningly unlikely, but possible. But when he also believes in fairies and leylines, I have to start asking myself if he has something wrong with his mind.

[Cuddles]

But, being the enlightened individuals that we are, no one ever does anything like that, here on this forum.

Who, us?:eek:

[slipknotmcfadden]

I agree that it's partially:

1. Rejection of science and scientists (the "I don't need no book-learnin'. I went to the school of common sense." phenomenon).

2. incompatibility with religion

3. laziness (unwillingness to learn)

4. stupidity (inability to learn - I feel this is much rarer than #3)

But how about this for #5 - I think there are a lot of people who really do want to "figure things out"; people who like to do their own comparisons to find out if something, say a homeopathic "remedy", works better than traditional medicine. They just don't know how to conduct the experiment. They don't understand the scientific method.

For instance, my brother was telling me how to remove sweat-stains from white undershirts (is this too gross?). He said that our sister-in-law had told him not to use bleach in every load of white laundry he did (as opposed to using it every time). He told me he had tried it and it worked.

Now, I'm not sure which way is better, but I know that bleach is a damn effective "dechromifier" (is this a real word? I made it up just now, but it might be a real word). Would it really prevent clothes from getting whiter if used too much? "Whiteness" would surely be a difficult thing to gauge with the human eye, especially over a time period of several weeks and several laundry cycles. You'd have to get some sort of light meter to make it an objective measurement, or do side-by-side comparisons with the human eye in a blind test (ha, pun).

So yeah, partially it's laziness, but I think most people wouldn't know how to set up the experiment to be scientifically sound even if they could work up the energy to do it. It also explains why so many applicants for the JREF prize can't agree on a protocol - they don't know what a real scientific experiment is supposed to look like. That's where the education needs to start, methinks.

[russingram]

I question whether people really do believe weird things. Just look at the lengths to which they go to avoid testing their beliefs - it's like they know, in the back of their minds, that their beliefs are not true.

[Amapola]

I question whether people really do believe weird things. Just look at the lengths to which they go to avoid testing their beliefs - it's like they know, in the back of their minds, that their beliefs are not true.

That's a pretty good point....... they do also become incredibly angry when challenged. Afraid to "rock the boat" perhaps?

There may also be a fear of what to replace the weird beliefs with. If you admit that you are wrong, you may have to tear up the whole fabric of your life up to that point. What do you put in its stead? I think that has some people scared to the point they won't admit a beilef they hold is wrong.

[Dogdoctor]

There are probably many reasons why people believe weird things. For myself it involved not understanding the disadvantages of other methods of evaluating the world and a lack of data to evaluate things with. Evolution is key since everything that we are is a result of that process but for the greater part you can discard evolution since it applies equally to everyone.

[Ryan O'Dine]

I think a lot of belief is has little to do with truth, and everything to do with self image. A person will believe in UFOs not because the evidence is convincing, but because they fancy themselves the “cool” UFO-believing type. Or people will believe their religion because think themselves “righteous,” and how can you be righteous if you don’t believe in a religion?

[KarlQuigley]

Thanks for the book recommendations. No coincidence, I am reading the “Weird Things” book (and others) at the moment. Thanks anyway.

…Part two…

7) People find it easier to accept something unquestionably than to question. (This probably relates to point six).

9) The fear of the unknown. We need to be wary of that dark cave. Fear of the future. We need to expect the unexpected. Astrologers offer reassurance and also…

You know what? I don’t really care any more!

The more I read, the more I realise that all these different reasons are themselves a belief in weird things. There are only three reasons why people believe weird things..

1) Some people are suckers.

2) Some people suck in suckers.

3) Some suckers suck in other suckers.

You see, the more examples of weird things I read about, the angrier I get. Especially when I read about the lives that have been ruined by false accusations based on “repressed memories”.

I have one question and forgive me for asking it. Why are so many instances of weird things (mostly) unique to America? Like Alien Abductions, Repressed Memories, Suicidal Cults, etc. Or does it just seem that way?

Karl Quigley P.O.

[KarlQuigley]

There is also the scam factor - scam artists can be very clever at conning gullible and even not so gullible people.
That is exactly the way I am now starting to think. Totally agree.

[KarlQuigley]

Are you an atheist now Karl?

You ask why people believe weird things yet you yourself believe in God?
Here's the truth. Some days I do and some days I don't. I never believe in the type of God who cares about us, or we are answerable to as preached by religion.
God, to me, is nothing more than an explanation for what cannot be explained. Not really a literal God. How can I explain? Try this.

God = That prickly feeling you get when you stop and think "Why am I here?" or "How can I exist?". - In both those questions the emphasis is on the "I" bit.

Or, maybe a better explanation, the same God as referred to by Stephen Hawking.

Am I an athiest? In the accepted sense, Yes.

Karl Quigley M.A.

[Vitnir]

Quote
"I have one question and forgive me for asking it. Why are so many instances of weird things (mostly) unique to America? Like Alien Abductions, Repressed Memories, Suicidal Cults, etc. Or does it just seem that way?"

It just seems that way, there are as many idiots over in Sweden where I live. I know they aren't idiots technically but rather intelligent and educated people but sometimes I just give up on the world.

[KarlQuigley]

I question whether people really do believe weird things. Just look at the lengths to which they go to avoid testing their beliefs - it's like they know, in the back of their minds, that their beliefs are not true.
This, in my experience, is so very true. I think you have made an interesting observation. I'm going to go away and think about that. In an earlier post, I stated :-

1) Some people are suckers.

2) Some people suck in suckers.

3) Some suckers suck in other suckers.

Could number 4 be ...Some suckers suck in themselves..? Let me think.

Karl Quigley T.H.

[KarlQuigley]

Quote
It just seems that way, there are as many idiots over in Sweden where I live. I know they aren't idiots technically but rather intelligent and educated people but sometimes I just give up on the world.

You're probably right. We have our fair share of idiots too. Maybe it's more to do with the American media or just the size of the American population.

Since I've started this quest of mine to understand Weird Beliefs, I too have become despondent. I wonder how James Randi manages to cope?

Karl Quigley Q.D.

[KarlQuigley]

I've thought about it.

1) Some people are suckers.

2) Some people suck in suckers.

3) Some suckers suck in other suckers.

4) Some suckers suck in themselves.

Any additions?

Karl Quigley F.B.

[KarlQuigley]

I think a lot of belief is has little to do with truth, and everything to do with self image. A person will believe in UFOs not because the evidence is convincing, but because they fancy themselves the “cool” UFO-believing type. Or people will believe their religion because think themselves “righteous,” and how can you be righteous if you don’t believe in a religion?

So..a possible..Number 5..maybe..

Some suckers like being a sucker - or - Some suckers are proud to be a sucker

No, I haven't quite got it. Any ideas. Or is this covered by number 1? - Some people are suckers.

Karl Quigley T.H.

[Beady]

Has Barnum taught you people nothing?

[KarlQuigley]

Has Barnum taught you people nothing?
Errr...Yes...Which is why I use the word "sucker"...Sorry, I thought this would be clear..Never mind.

The assumption is that "There's a sucker born every minute" would be rule 0...Hang on...Let me check something.

Oh right, that's not all he said. The quote should be "There's a sucker born every minute...and two to take 'em". I apologise for the previous sarcasm.

That does cover a lot of it.

Let's just say then that I'm expanding the rule.

Karl Quigley H. H. I S.

[skeptigirl]

The answer is simple why people want to believe.

People do not want to accept that they are on some speck of dust compared to the universe, that they are not even a blink of the eye compared to all time, and that humans shall someday become extinct, taking all progress made by humanity with it. Because, if they did, then what would be the point of existing in the first place?
This is a myth.

[skeptigirl]

I would say that a very important factor is that people don't like being wrong. For some reason most people find it very hard to finish an argument with a simple "I was wrong" and instead go to incredible lengths to make up a reason why they weren't wrong or how it was the other person's fault. This applies to all aspects of life, whether it is about the existence of god or whose turn it was to feed the cats. I think the mark of a true skeptic isn't about investigating or questioning seemingly irrational beliefs (although that is important too), but simply being able to admit to having made a mistake when shown to have done so.It can be observed that people will often continue to argue a disproved point rather than just saying they were wrong and moving on. It can also be observed that people have a desire to be believed. That's why an awful lot of rather incredible things are described as having happened to "my cousin", or some other person one knows well enough the listener cannot question the credibility of the story. I'm always skeptical of the, "Uh huh! It happened to my cousin" line.

[KarlQuigley]

It can be observed that people will often continue to argue a disproved point rather than just saying they were wrong and moving on.

I remember once being told an urban myth which, having believed, I repeated to a friend. He replied that he had heard a similar story and that the story was likely to be false. When he told me this, it dawned on me and I felt foolish. Normally, I would laugh it off and agree.

But I didn't. I insisted that it was true and that I knew the person the story related to (I didn't, of course). My friend ended up believing the myth. I'm embarrased to this day.

Given the same set of circumstances, would I do it again? I would like to think not.

Karl Quigley B.H.

[steenkh]

Because, if they did, then what would be the point of existing in the first place?
The question is, why should there be a point to existing at all? Humans like to see a point to everything, but most things just exist. But you may be right that some people would rather invent a religion to give them a reason for being than to face the fact that they just exist, and that is all there is to it.

(Thanks to Skeptigirl for having drawn my attention to this quote)

[skeptigirl]

Let me take the obvious step of rewording the question:-
"Why do wierd people believe things?"

Not everyone who believes any one or two odd things is wierd, but my experience is that many people who purport to believe one wooism believe many other, often contradictory notions. Example:- Fans of Von Daniken, often also believe Velikovsky . These two writers are internally inconsistent and have both been proven wrong many times, but more importantly , they are mutually contradictory in many areas: If one is right about everything, the other is wrong about a great deal- yet repeatedly I meet people who claim to be convinced by both.

In addition, such people tend to believe in many, if not all forms of psi, ghosts, Vedic technology, Atlantis etc.

There is a pattern here. First there tends to be a rejection of orthodox views , particularly in sciences like archaeology which demand thorough and lengthy study. Whether the rejection comes from inability to understand, or simple reluctance I don't know.

I can perfectly understand someone believing that extra terrestrial aliens exist and may have visited or may still visit Earth. Stunningly unlikely, but possible. But when he also believes in fairies and leylines, I have to start asking myself if he has something wrong with his mind.This is a specific phenomena. There are many reasons people believe weird things. But the framework on which your beliefs are structured has an impact on what you generally tend to believe. Thus if you have built a framework around religion, you will fit your newer experiences into that framework. If you've built your belief framework around conspiracies, you'll often conclude new information is evidence of yet another conspiracy.

While I haven't read the two books mentioned, "Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking." and Gilovich's "How We Know What Isn't So", I may look for then now. I have read the other two, Shermer's and Sagan's. And I've read quite a bit on brain structure, not the physical structure, but the way thoughts, perceptions, memories and belief systems are structured.

What you need to start with to understand why people believe anything is to look at how what we experience is processed. You don't perceive what your senses take in, you perceive the data after the brain interprets it. This is a fascinating area of brain science. Let me give you an example.

The images going into our eyes are transmitted to the brain upside down. But we see the image right side up. If you wear special glasses that reverse the image, after a day or so, your brain will flip the reverse image right side up and when you take the glasses off everything will be upside down for a while.

There are a number of optical illusions where your brain fills in the missing data it expects to be there. This is why something in dim light will sometimes look like something else including details but when you are closer or there is more light and you see what it really is, you no longer see the details your brain was providing.

But this is just the beginning. Your brain categorizes things. Once you learn something, like what a tree is, you recognize all sorts of trees that you have never seen before. The brain builds categories and recognizes certain patterns as being in that category.

The brain assumes certain relationships. Your brain is looking for cause and effect so it often assumes causality where there is really only coincidence.

Some people are naturally better at logic. They may be better observers. Or they may have learned in science class that the brain wants to find cause and effect but the scientific process does a better job of it. Thus the person has learned about the brain's mechanisms and consciously improves the outcome.

The person establishes a belief system. It can be modified. The incoming new information is fit into the structure. People fall on a continuum as to how flexible that belief structure is with new information. So you have your more rigid dogmatic believers and those that can learn new tricks.

And we have those social factors which are more part of one's personality or identity and how we interact with others. So the alpha dog's and the submissive dog's social factors affect the belief structure and how incoming data is perceived. You can have someone who is timid believe roller coasters are dangerous and someone who is a thrill seeker believe there is no danger. These social factors and intrinsic personality affect what we believe.

Those are some of the intrinsic reasons people believe weird things. There are also extrinsic reasons. There is a whole science of persuasion used by marketers and power seekers. Some of it comes naturally. You get a David Koresh, Charles Manson, Marshall Applewhite or Jim Jones and mix them with a group of personalities that are susceptible to this natural skill and you get a Waco or a Jonestown or a mass murder or mass suicide. Had those people not crossed paths they wouldn't necessarily have established those particular beliefs.

Other extrinsic factors involve the things that control the information we receive. There are some very slick political marketers acting right now. They choose words which actually influence belief. Apparently Newt Gingrich discovered Democrat Party had a more negative connotation than Democratic Party, the proper name. He set out to repeat the negative version and have other Republicans repeat the negative version and in no time at all some of the news casters used the negative name. You could write volumes on how people actively influence people's beliefs.

Our belief systems include who and what we chose to identify with. People drive cars, wear clothes and vote an image of themselves often quite removed from reality. The person who has an off road vehicle but never goes off road in it, the Libertarian who thinks the Republicans are closer to Libertarian ideals when Republicans (at the moment) infringe on behavior like banning gay marriage, being anti-personal choice for abortions, intrusive government spying without warrants and so on. Those anti-Libertarian positions are ignored because many Libertarians believe an image that the Republican Party Platform is closer to their beliefs than the Democratic Party Platform when the opposite is true. (Yes, I used this opportunity to sneek a subtle message in...muahahahaha.)

So there are intrinsic factors, extrinsic factors and social influences which lead us to believe what we believe. We have as a species reached a point where we can examine these reasons as well as we have reached a point where we know how to improve on the way the mind takes in data and forms beliefs by using the scientific process. We need to do a better job teaching kids awareness of the influences on their beliefs so they are less affected by the influences that lead them to believe weird things.

[Beady]

...then what would be the point of existing in the first place?

What makes you think there's a point to it?

Seriously. Why do you think there's a point, a purpose, to existence? To assume there is a Purpose to it all also assumes that somewhere out there in the ether is a Standard by which to judge whether or how well we have fulfilled that Purpose.

It also inherently assumes that there is a Being who will measure us against that Standard. If there is no Being to do the measuring, then it is up to us to do it, but how can we measure if we don't know how to read, or even recognise, the Standard? The Being has to exist in order for us to be measured against the Standard for, without the Standard, there is no point to the Purpose.

Hey! Did I just found a religion?

[skeptigirl]

Just a bit of elaboration on the myth we have to have meaning in our lives...

People have all sorts of desires. Some folks are out for power, fame, their mark on the world. Some want to know they did good things, some are just happy to sit in front of the TV with a six pack every night. There is no innate human desire to have meaning in one's life. Maybe some people think that matters. I tend to think it's one of those slogans people have heard others saying and they adopt it. There are a number of religious persons who've been told that slogan and then repeat it to the next person. I bet if they had to explain why it mattered that our lives matter they'd be darn hard pressed to do so. And, frankly, I don't see a whole lot of meaning in being a creation of a god which is the typical context that slogan is used in..

I've been a happy camper exploring the world the first half of my life and now I want to influence others to think critically and see the world as evidence based. I want to share what I've observed. I raised and continue to raise a son and did a tiny bit to advance the nursing profession (was part of a small group of nurses who established the right to work as independent contractors in WA State). There's more than enough "meaning" in my life.

[trvlr2]

But, being the enlightened individuals that we are, no one ever does anything like that, here on this forum.

Evidence, please?:D

KarlQuigley (Quote ) snip..

snip...

I have one question and forgive me for asking it. Why are so many instances of weird things (mostly) unique to America? Like Alien Abductions, Repressed Memories, Suicidal Cults, etc. Or does it just seem that way?

Karl Quigley P.O.

Karl, I think the emergent weirdness started with the notion of equality;
ie, my ideas are as good as any-equal to all, so are my opinions.Now grant the same to all others.
Careful examination will show great differences in quality,clarity,and value
of these ideas and opinions.
So, even though I don't believe that Americans have cornered the market on woo-icity,the average guy,armed with political equality, mistakes that equality with that of his ideas,opinions, etc.
And, he can afford to indulge this notion.Only the UK comes close , in this respect.(And maybe leads, per capita wooness).

btw,skeptigirl, nice posts ,above.

[skeptigirl]

Quote
"I have one question and forgive me for asking it. Why are so many instances of weird things (mostly) unique to America? Like Alien Abductions, Repressed Memories, Suicidal Cults, etc. Or does it just seem that way?"

It just seems that way, there are as many idiots over in Sweden where I live. I know they aren't idiots technically but rather intelligent and educated people but sometimes I just give up on the world.I missed this earlier. Here's another myth.

Mexico had a whole slew of UFO incidents after the 91 solar eclipse. Japan has had it's share of suicide cults. Does nerve gas in the subway ring a bell? And wasn't there a mass suicide in France or other European country a few years ago? India has gurus too numerous to count. Maybe it's Sweden that is the exception?

Pana Wave (http://www.rickross.com/groups/pana_wave.html)

World Religions and 101 Cults and Sects (http://www.religion-cults.com/)

UFOs in Mexico (http://home.uchicago.edu/~ryancook/au-mex.htm)

List of haunted sites in the USA and in other countries (http://theshadowlands.net/places/)

Crop circles are mostly in England. Surely US tourism isn't the only reason.

Sightings of the Virgin Mary and the face of Jesus are certainly not restricted to the US.

[KarlQuigley]

Karl, I think the emergent weirdness started with the notion of equality;
ie, my ideas are as good as any-equal to all, so are my opinions.Now grant the same to all others.
Careful examination will show great differences in quality,clarity,and value
of these ideas and opinions.
So, even though I don't believe that Americans have cornered the market on woo-icity,the average guy,armed with political equality, mistakes that equality with that of his ideas,opinions, etc.
And, he can afford to indulge this notion.Only the UK comes close , in this respect.(And maybe leads, per capita wooness).

With the utmost respect, I was wondering whether you could rephrase that into something a little bit more intelligible?

I am not sure whether you're trying to start a "my country is better than yours" argument. If so, I have better things to do.

If you think that I am trying to start this argument, then I apologise. I have better things to do.

If you merely think that I have insulted Americans, then I apologise. This was not my intention, again I have better things to do.

Whatever, I reserve the right to make an observation which I see to be true. This can then be discussed (sensibly) whether there is any truth in my observation and why, if untrue, it should appear this way.

If you look at the title of this thread, you will see that it is fitting for me to make this comment for two reasons. 1) This may be example of Weird Beliefs and 2) Cultural differences may have relevance.

I stand by the observation, because this is the way I see things. It's a belief shared by many this side of the pond and, possibly, the reverse is true. Is it?

I would like to discuss this which is why I clearly said "Or does it just seem this way?"

Maybe I am completely off-track with my replies but you haven't made it easy for me.

Karl Quigley C.Y.A.W.

[KarlQuigley]

To Skeptigirl,

Thank you. Thank you. As you probably know, I have been doing a lot a reading of late. Nothing I have read so far has really tried to address the actual "Why" part of my question.
You have. And I thank you once again. You have given me something to think about and given logical explanation.

Eventually, this thread will disappear but your informed view should not.

Regards Karl Quigley

BTW, Crop circles! They're a joke, a hoax, a bit of fun. It's not our fault the Americans took them seriously.:) I await trvlr2's reply to that comment.

[skeptigirl]

Cute comment on the crop circles. :D

Thank you for the compliment.

My point of view is heavily influenced by my belief the mind is more biological than psychological. As a nurse practitioner, I have had lots of anatomy and physiology education. It never made sense to me that we treated the mind as something completely different from the body. Emotions and thoughts need structure and physiology to exist. From there I have had more interest in brain function as a structural and physiologic process.

Information comes into our brains via our senses. That includes information in books, in what we hear and read, not just the physical nerve impulses of the senses. Your brain has to have a way to store, retrieve and interpret what it receives. It's incredible how fast you can retrieve the trillions and trillions of facts in your brain, from all your experience memories to what you read in a textbook a decade ago. There is very little lag time considering the amount of material you can retrieve.

There is a fascinating body of research delving into just exactly what is occurring for this feat of memory retrieval to happen. There is additional research trying to understand just what consciousness is. In the distant past mind and body were viewed differently. One looked at psychiatric disorders to see if there was a physiological basis, but beyond that there was this concept the mind wasn't the result of structure and physiology. That part of our minds was sort of left in the background. You looked at behaviors, genetics, social dynamics, psychological trauma and so on.

Now we are recognizing the brain comes with certain operating programs as part of its structure. We understand that functional structure better every day.

[KarlQuigley]

Hi Skeptigirl

Taking your points on board, I now rephrase the question; why don’t people believe more weird things?

If I now consider the human brain in its physical sense, and try to grasp its complexities, I find it incredible we manage to make the amount of correct connections that we do. If I also consider the desires of evolution for self-preservation and for that of the species, which seems at odds with our sheer capacity for reasoning, I now realise that I may be tackling this from the wrong angle.

I would like to know more about our understanding of the physical workings of the brain. Can you suggest a book for someone with little background knowledge? Not another book relating to Weird Beliefs but one that will help me to understand what you understand.

Thank you

Karl Quigley M.A.

[robinson]

To answer the question, posed in the title -

People believe weird things because ...

...they were taught them by people they trusted, when they were young. (Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Jesus, God, Satan, Angels, Heaven, Hell, etc etc etc).

...because the human brain percieves things weird sometimes.
http://www.patmedia.net/marklevinson/cool/cool_illusion.html

...because the human brain IS weird sometimes.

[Yahzi]

Since I've started this quest of mine to understand Weird Beliefs, I too have become despondent. I wonder how James Randi manages to cope?
I read a quote from Einstein many years ago, that served as an epiphany for me. Someone asked Einstein how he could bear to be surrounded by so many people that were, relative to him, so very stupid. His answer was:

"Because I know they can't help it."

When I start to become despondent, I remember that. People are what they are. The hardest lesson I ever learned in life is that you have to accept people for what they have to offer, not for what you want or need.

(Admittey, I struggle with that lesson every day, as a cursory perusal of the thread in my sig line shows. :D )

[skeptigirl]

Hi Skeptigirl

Taking your points on board, I now rephrase the question; why don’t people believe more weird things?

If I now consider the human brain in its physical sense, and try to grasp its complexities, I find it incredible we manage to make the amount of correct connections that we do. If I also consider the desires of evolution for self-preservation and for that of the species, which seems at odds with our sheer capacity for reasoning, I now realise that I may be tackling this from the wrong angle.

I would like to know more about our understanding of the physical workings of the brain. Can you suggest a book for someone with little background knowledge? Not another book relating to Weird Beliefs but one that will help me to understand what you understand.

Thank you

Karl Quigley M.A.

There's a massive amount of information out there.

The first 3 links in this Google search for brain research (http://www.google.com/search?hs=kRz&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=brain+research&btnG=Search) were chock full of even more links.

I don't have a recommended book. What I know comes from an initial background in anatomy and physiology a while back and an insatiable curiosity that I satisfy by web surfing and reading. I recommend either reading a bit of brain basics on the web and then branching out in what interests you via search engines. Or, the other option I also do often is to just browse the appropriate section of the book store (more up to date choices) or the library (less expensive) and find the type of book that has what you are looking for. Then search the web for more after reading a book to get started.