Chavez & Ahmedinijad speak at the UN

[chipmunk stew]

And their fanclub goes wild...
http://www.ninjaproxy.com/cgiproxy/nph-proxy.pl/001110A/http/s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14550
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14550

[KingMerv00]

Wow desparate for any support you can get huh? They think BUSH has problems with human rights?

[DavidJames]

Wow desparate for any support you can get huh? They think BUSH has problems with human rights?

Sometimes I think the whole 9/11 conspiracy movement is actually a brilliant secret operations by Karl Rove to make those with legitimate grievances with Bush appear to be complete lunatics.

[MarkyX]

Further proof that the 9/11 Denier movement is based on political agenda and not "finding out teh trooth"

[DavidJames]

Further proof that the 9/11 Denier movement is based on political agenda and not "finding out teh trooth"While there is an element of politics in the movement, let's be clear. The same defect that causes their bizarre and insane interpretation of reality with the 9/11 idiots was present in those supporting the OKC, Waco, Ruby Ridge and Clinton murders lunacy.

[tsig]

While there is an element of politics in the movement, let's be clear. The same defect that causes their bizarre and insane interpretation of reality with the 9/11 idiots was present in those supporting the OKC, Waco, Ruby Ridge and Clinton murders lunacy.

The thin haired monkey seems to have deep strains of insanity.

Since the advent of civilization understanding the natural world has not been needed to survive.

[T.A.M.]

All I have to say to the Chavez/Ahmedinijad lovers is...If you don't like your own country, move to theirs. I am sure they have room for you there somewhere. I can't guarantee it will be as comfortable as your cushy little room, but I am sure with your attitude, Those dictators will see past you being an American...lol

Good Luck with your new life in hell CTers.

TAM

[Childlike Empress]

Hugo Chavez is a dictator, TAM? Please explain why.

[chipmunk stew]

Hugo Chavez is a dictator, TAM? Please explain why.

Childlike, have you conceded that Khalid Sheikh Muhammad is still alive and in US custody? Please submit your answer in this thread:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64160

[stateofgrace]

Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/07/08/venezu11299.htm)

Rights Lawyer Faces Judicial Persecution (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/05/venezu10423.htm)

Curbs on Free Expression Tightened (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/24/venezu10368.htm)

Media Law Undercuts Freedom of Expression (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/11/30/venezu9754.htm)

Court-Packing Law Threatens Venezuelan Democracy (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/07/07/venezu9015.htm)

Charges of Abuses Against Protestors (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/05/venezu8072.htm)

Political Crisis in Venezuela (http://hrw.org/backgrounder/americas/venezuela-bck0703.htm)

Etc,etc,etc.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu

LC comments.

"He just got done calling bush the devil. He said it still smell like sulfur from his visit yesterday."

"Thats awsome!!"

"For other anti-TV people, here a link to the UN site where the video will be made available shortly:"

"Yes, he's done now, and it was awesome. One of the best things I've ever seen."

"I want to have these two over for dinner at my house."

"I always loved Chavez"

"I wish Chavez would have exposed John Bolton as a member of pnac and also exposing the UN as a jewish organization."

Etc,ect,ect.

Enough said.

[apathoid]

All I have to say to the Chavez/Ahmedinijad lovers is...If you don't like your own country, move to theirs. I am sure they have room for you there somewhere. I can't guarantee it will be as comfortable as your cushy little room, but I am sure with your attitude, Those dictators will see past you being an American...lol

Good Luck with your new life in hell CTers.

TAM

I've already offered Nessie a First Class one-way ticket to Tehran, unfortunately he rejected it.

[fuelair]

Hugo Chavez is a dictator, TAM? Please explain why.

Probably a simple slip - he was thinking rectum and typed dictator.

[T.A.M.]

yes, you are right, I meant assmunchers.

Sorry CLE, you got me, enjoy...lame

TAM

[Childlike Empress]

Did you try to answer my question, stateofgrace? Seven articles from HRW 2002-2005? Very impressive. What about taking a look at Venezuelas new constitution, created by the people of Venezuela "under" Chavez?

http://www.embavenez-us.org/constitution/intro.htm

Remember the failed referendum against Chavez in 2004? That referendum was made possible by this constitution.

@TAM: assmunchers? How mature.

@fuelair: You think TAM is a retard?

[Pardalis]

Childlike, it's strange how you easily compare the US to Nazi Germany, and then when someone accuses Chavez of dictatorship, you find this unacceptable.

Have you read the US constitution by the way?

http://www.usconstitution.net/

[KingMerv00]

"I want to have these two over for dinner at my house."


CTist: Ahmadinejad! Welcome!

Ahmadinejad: Thank you. (Sits down.)

CTist: Would you like a Rice Krispy square?

Ahmadinejad: Is it Halal?

CTist: Uh...I'm not sure. HONEY, ARE THE RICE KRISPY SQUARES HALAL?!?!

CTist's wife (from the other room): I DON'T KNOW DEAR!

Ahmadinejad: No thank you.

CTist: Soooooooooo.....you hate Bush?

Ahmadinejad: Oh Allah yes! He is an imperialistic, warmongering, elitist bastard.

CTist: You said it buddy.

Ahmadinejad: Don't you hate homosexuals?

CTist: Well, uh...

Ahmadinejad: And freedom of the press?

CTist: Actually...

Ahmadinejad: Your wife is a whore for not wearing a burka.

CTist's wife (from the other room): WHAT DID HE SAY!?!?

CTist: Nothing dear!

(An uneasy silence fills the room. Ahmadinejad glares agrily at the infidel pig dog as he munches nervously on a Krispy square.)

*cough*

CTist: How about them Zionist sleazeballs?

Ahmadinejad: HAHA! My friend! You are very wise.

[Childlike Empress]

@Pardalis: Aha, it's the offtopic curious canadian carnivore again - i don't feel like playing with you tonight.

[stateofgrace]

Childlike I wasn't even addressing you but since you asked maybe you should actually look at where I got the links from.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu (http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu)

I did post it, but guess you missed it. So try again and ask me again once you have read all the articles in it.

Then maybe you should do as TAM suggested head off down there and have a wonderful time. After all it seems your stay in the US is nothing other than persecution and suppression by the neocons who rule the totalitarian country you live in.

[T.A.M.]

CLE:

I have given up being mature with the CT bunch. They only respond to their own tactics, so I just throw it back, and I am throwing it wide. If that includes you, too bad. I can be as "mature" as anyone here, I spend my life acting mature with real people, who really matter. I used the word "Dictator" incorrectly. You gotta stone to throw at me, little miss "I have never said anything incorrectly".

Iran president - puppet for Iatolah
Chavez - socialist nutcase

ok, there is my opinion.

TAM

[Stellafane]

@Pardalis: Aha, it's the offtopic curious canadian carnivore again - i don't feel like playing with you tonight.

Don't feel too bad Pard -- sooner or later she'd probably end up lying to you. It appears to be a habit of hers.

[bjb]

I like how Chavez said he could smell sulfur. As the ancients used to say, "He who smelt it, dealt it."

[Childlike Empress]

I have given up being mature with the CT bunch. They only respond to their own tactics, so I just throw it back, and I am throwing it wide. If that includes you, too bad. I can be as "mature" as anyone here, I spend my life acting mature with real people, who really matter. I used the word "Dictator" incorrectly. You gotta stone to throw at me, little miss "I have never said anything incorrectly".
I deciphered that as a correction of a false statement. That's mature.

[T.A.M.]

I really don't want to get on the topic of maturity here anyway. Whether you think I am acting immature, or not, doesn't really matter.

When I am explaining the events of 9/11 as I saw them, based on the facts and opinions I have found and trust, to a fence sitter, or someone new, than I act mature...they deserve it.

When I am responding to Conspiracy Shaite, thrown out by bitter teen hermits, and aged superleft hippies with nothing better to do (not calling you personally either of these), who mock people who I believe died as heroes, I have no time for maturity, as it gets nowhere with that crowd.

I am also man enough, and mature enough to admit when I have mispoken. The word Dictator was not correct, in the political sense, so I withdrew it and replaced it with how I feel each of these men fit into my political universe.

Be careful of nitpicking for nitpicking sake...I can be quite good at it as well.

TAM

[Pardalis]

@Pardalis: Aha, it's the offtopic curious canadian carnivore again - i don't feel like playing with you tonight.

I thought girls liked cats... :(

[Childlike Empress]

@TAM: I see your hate ruling over your rationality.

[negativ]

I like how Chavez said he could smell sulfur. As the ancients used to say, "He who smelt it, dealt it."

Ah, but the standard defense is, "He who denied it, supplied it." Incidentally, this is the working title of the Next Final Edition of Loose Change.

[fuelair]

Did you try to answer my question, stateofgrace? Seven articles from HRW 2002-2005? Very impressive. What about taking a look at Venezuelas new constitution, created by the people of Venezuela "under" Chavez?

http://www.embavenez-us.org/constitution/intro.htm

Remember the failed referendum against Chavez in 2004? That referendum was made possible by this constitution.

@TAM: assmunchers? How mature.

@fuelair: You think TAM is a retard?
No, I was making a funny as TAM recognized and responded to. Clearly TAM and I think nothing of Chaves - he is wasted protein. I suspect (know in my case) that we also think it doesn't mateer if God herself came down and annointed him Queen of the Universe, he is still a pathetic third worlder trying to look big in front of his classmates. No intent of being vicious to you, sounds like you have good intent and I have not read anything of yours that leads me to think of brain difficulties. I just have no time or use for Chaves and his type (or Bush and his in all fairness). Best, F/A

[Darth Rotor]

Did you try to answer my question, stateofgrace? Seven articles from HRW 2002-2005? Very impressive. What about taking a look at Venezuelas new constitution, created by the people of Venezuela "under" Chavez?
"The people" of Venezuela did not create a constitution. A number of smart folks put one together, and doubtless engaged in some debate and disagreement over its details, then presented it for a referendum.

The people approved it via referendum, and I'll take it on faith that the referendum was reasonably free of defect/voter fraud.

So, "the people" of Venezuela may have approved a new constitution, but the creation was limited, like ours was, to a small subset of very smart and motivated Venezuelans.

Oh, and Chavez is a politician, which by functional definition means he is a liar. :) The question is: to what degree?

DR

[T.A.M.]

CLE:

I think you misinterpret annoyance, disgust, and frustration with hate. I think you use choose your words poorly at times, as do I. Hate is a strong word to accuse me of. I don't hate any of the CTers.

I hate eating liver
I hate child molesters/pediphiles
I hate that life is not eternal

I do not hate people incapable of using logic. I do not hate people incapable of believing expert opinion. I do not hate people who think the government is out to get them...I just pity them.

and believe me, I am rational in every sense of the word.

TAM

[Darth Rotor]

CLE:
. . . and believe me, I am rational in every sense of the word.
TAM
Evidence? :)

Sorry, I just channeled Claus, I'll stop.

DR

[Childlike Empress]

No, I was making a funny as TAM recognized and responded to. Clearly TAM and I think nothing of Chaves - he is wasted protein. I suspect (know in my case) that we also think it doesn't mateer if God herself came down and annointed him Queen of the Universe, he is still a pathetic third worlder trying to look big in front of his classmates. No intent of being vicious to you, sounds like you have good intent and I have not read anything of yours that leads me to think of brain difficulties. I just have no time or use for Chaves and his type (or Bush and his in all fairness). Best, F/A

"wasted protein" ... "third worlder" ... you sound like a racist. My intent clearly seems to differ from yours.

"The people" of Venezuela did not create a constitution. A number of smart folks put one together, and doubtless engaged in some debate and disagreement over its details, then presented it for a referendum.

The people approved it via referendum, and I'll take it on faith that the referendum was reasonably free of defect/voter fraud.

So, "the people" of Venezuela may have approved a new constitution, but the creation was limited, like ours was, to a small subset of very smart and motivated Venezuelans.

Oh, and Chavez is a politician, which by functional definition means he is a liar. :) The question is: to what degree?

DR

You are wrong. The referendum i spoke of was not a referendum to approve the constitution, it was a referendum to oust him (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3569012.stm):

The referendum was activated after the opposition collected signatures from 20% of the population - a recall mechanism inserted into the Venezuelan constitution by Mr Chavez in 1999.

If his victory is confirmed, it will be the eighth time Mr Chavez has won public approval of his rule and his policies, after two presidential elections and six referendums.

CLE:

I think you misinterpret annoyance, disgust, and frustration with hate. I think you use choose your words poorly at times, as do I. Hate is a strong word to accuse me of. I don't hate any of the CTers.

I hate eating liver
I hate child molesters/pediphiles
I hate that life is not eternal

I do not hate people incapable of using logic. I do not hate people incapable of believing expert opinion. I do not hate people who think the government is out to get them...I just pity them.

and believe me, I am rational in every sense of the word.

TAM

I am sure you are informed enough to know that Chavez is no dictator and no "nutcase". So why did you claim he is?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

"wasted protein" ... "third worlder" ... you sound like a racist. My intent clearly seems to differ from yours.
...
Neither Third World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world)
Today, however, the term is frequently used to denote nations with a low UN Human Development Index (HDI), independent of their political status (meaning that the PRC, Russia and Cuba, all of which were very strongly aligned during the Cold War, are often termed third world). However, there is no objective definition of Third World or "Third World country" and the use of the term remains common. Some in academia see it as being out of date, colonialist, othering and inaccurate; its use has continued, however. [1] In general, Third World countries are not as industrialized or technologically advanced as OECD countries, and therefore in academia, the more politically correct term to use is "developing nation"., nor "wasted protein" are inherently racist terms. You are again attempting to demonize those that you disagree with by slinging mud in an attempt to sully their character.

[Childlike Empress]

I'm still thinking about that signature. What about "Even Chavez doesn't smell him but be aware"?

You honestly have no problem with his statement, Arkan?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'm still thinking about that signature. What about "Even Chavez doesn't smell him but be aware"?

You honestly have no problem with his statement, Arkan?

Whether or not I have any issues with fuelair's comment is moot. You claimed that fuelair's use of the phrases "waste of protein" and "third worlder" were racist. I am stating that those phrases are not inherently racist. "waste of protein" is a statement of opinion. "third worlder" is an error of fact since Venezuela's HDI rating of 0.75-0.799 puts it above the .5 cutoff for "low development", but below the .8 rating of high development; though it could be argued that they are on the low end of the rating category as other nations in that same range are "most" of South America, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Libya, and China to name a few.

[Childlike Empress]

Absolutely wrong, Arkan. I said that fuelair "sounds like a racist" to me. In my book "wasted protein" combined with "thirld worlder" is a strong indication of a racist mindset (or an absolutely silly comment) and i will not answer to that type of comments.

[chipmunk stew]

I am sure you are informed enough to know that Chavez is no dictator and no "nutcase".
That depends. Does he actually believe that Bush is the Devil?

[Childlike Empress]

Yeah, the devil and the sulfur. I am sure Chavez smells it every time he reads Chomsky's books. Just like Pat Robertson.

I await your answer here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64160), chipmunk.

[T.A.M.]

My opinion on Chavez. He believes in a political system, socialism, which has proven to be a failure. He makes outlandish, irational statements about the US, and elements of the USG.

To me, he is a Socialist "nutcase".

TAM

[chipmunk stew]

You are wrong. The referendum i spoke of was not a referendum to approve the constitution, it was a referendum to oust him (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3569012.stm):
About that referendum (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/07/08/venezu11299.htm):
(Washington, July 8, 2005) — In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.

Yesterday, a court in Caracas ordered that María Corina Machado and Alejandro Plaz be tried on treason charges brought by a public prosecutor because their nongovernmental organization, Súmate, accepted foreign funds for a program that encouraged citizen participation in a referendum on President Hugo Chavez’s presidency in 2004. Two other Súmate leaders, Luis Enrique Palacios and Ricardo Estévez, will also be tried on charges of complicity with this alleged crime.

“The court has given the government a green light to persecute its opponents,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “Prosecuting people for treason when they engage in legitimate electoral activities is utterly absurd.”

Machado and Plaz have been charged under article 132 of the Venezuelan Penal Code with “conspiracy to destroy the nation’s republican form of government.” If convicted, they face up to 16 years in prison.

[Childlike Empress]

I know exactly as much as you about this case (nothing) but i think it is not far fetched to name the "foreign funds" as NED or USAID or some other "humanitarian" organisation of that kind. What's your point?

[gumboot]

Absolutely wrong, Arkan. I said that fuelair "sounds like a racist" to me. In my book "wasted protein" combined with "thirld worlder" is a strong indication of a racist mindset


The Third World are not a race. Ergo derogatory comments levelled at the Third World cannot be considered racism.

You do understand what a "race" is right?

-Andrew

[Childlike Empress]

Do you understand what "wasted protein" is?

[dirtywick]

Do you understand what "wasted protein" is?

I assumed it was sperm.

[Childlike Empress]

Thanks for forcing us to get on the ground again, dirtywick ;)

[chipmunk stew]

I know exactly as much as you about this case (nothing) but i think it is not far fetched to name the "foreign funds" as NED or USAID or some other "humanitarian" organisation of that kind. What's your point?
My point is, they're being tried for treason. You pointed to the referendum, saying it was made possible by the constitution. If so, then people are being tried for treason for exercising a constitutional right that you held up as evidence of Venezuela's healthy democracy.

You see no problem with this?

[Childlike Empress]

My point is, they're being tried for treason. You pointed to the referendum, saying it was made possible by the constitution. If so, then people are being tried for treason for exercising a constitutional right that you held up as evidence of Venezuela's healthy democracy.

In which way are they tried for exercising a constitutional right? Treason? I don't see it.

[Stellafane]

In which way are they tried for exercising a constitutional right? Treason? I don't see it.

Many CTists call for the overthrow of the US government. Should they be tried for treason?

[chipmunk stew]

In which way are they tried for exercising a constitutional right? Treason? I don't see it.
Machado and Plaz have been charged under article 132 of the Venezuelan Penal Code with “conspiracy to destroy the nation’s republican form of government.”
That's the charge. Not "illegally accepting funds from foreign sources" or anything like that. The charge is "conspiracy to destroy the nation's republican form of government." You don't see this as having a major chilling effect on the constitutional right to recall the president by referendum?

Are you really okay with this? Even if it's technically enforcable under Venezuelan law?

[fuelair]

"wasted protein" ... "third worlder" ... you sound like a racist. My intent clearly seems to differ from yours.
?

AW spoke up in my place, and I suspect I may have given you too much credit in the last part of my post. Chavez is, to the best of my knowledge, Hispanic - which is not , by any system of racial classification (except the old South African one) a race. He is, I believe, technically Caucasian or Caucasian/Mongolian mix which is just as artificial as any other classification of race (the basic part, skin color, is now known to be about providing one chemical in the body and producing another - i.e. unimportant in any major way). Many third worlders (a legitimate designation used by governments, sociologists, economics, medical personnel) are wonderful and useful people - which many people think I am. Chavez, however, is a standard cookie-cutter, small town/country politician picking on someone too big to bother with him unless it turns out he bites. Right now he is busy yapping, if he is a lot smarter than I think he is, he might stay around awhile - but he will never be important, he will just play at it.

I recognize the difference between saying I sound like a racist (even if you misused the term as pointed out), please do not make the error of calling me one.