Humans and canids

[negativ]

For no other reason than curiosity, I'm looking for some resources on the history of the relationship between humans and dogs from an anthropological perspective. In particular, I'm looking for whatever info may exist on the earliest examples of human-canid cooperation. For warm and fuzzy reasons, I'm fascinated by the interdependence of humans and dogs. Why do we have guide dogs and not guide chimpanzees, for example. Surely, some smart person here either knows an awful lot about this subject, or can point me towards some dense literature.

Thanks.

[bruto]

I actually don't know much of anything on the subject, though I surmise that on the question of guide animals, an animal too intelligent and independent might not be ideal, and the question put me in mind of this little poem:

APPLIED SCIENCE

The caged chimpanzee learns to communicate by symbols.
She write: in order to communicate by symbols
I need your constant praise and full attention.
See how easily I am distracted by a banana.
You could never trust me to provide proper supervision
for your children. I am incapable ever
of becoming an adequate servant. I know I never
can bake good biscuits. Please let me out.
This experiment is worthless.

Alice Wirth Gray, from What the Poor Eat

[TragicMonkey]

Because chimpanzees are more dangerous than dogs. A dog can bite you, yeah, and even kill you. But it can't wield a knife, set a fire, or squeeze your neck til your eyes pop out. Chimps can do all of those things, and what's worse, they enjoy them very much. They're simply too much like us to be trusted.

[supercorgi]

For no other reason than curiosity, I'm looking for some resources on the history of the relationship between humans and dogs from an anthropological perspective. In particular, I'm looking for whatever info may exist on the earliest examples of human-canid cooperation. For warm and fuzzy reasons, I'm fascinated by the interdependence of humans and dogs. Why do we have guide dogs and not guide chimpanzees, for example. Surely, some smart person here either knows an awful lot about this subject, or can point me towards some dense literature.

Thanks.
Interestingly, now we have seeing eye horses (http://www.guidehorse.org/)- much longer life span than seeing eye dogs.

As for dogs, I don't have any sources for you, but dogs are the earliest domesticated species. Supposedly this had something to do with the fact that early humans and canids competed for the same resources so they came into frequent contact which supposedly led to cooperation for the sharing of resources. That, combined with the canids pack relationships (similar to humans) made them prime candidates for domestication.

I know that some theories, involve the capture and raising of wolf puppies by humans. Neonatal characteristics by most animals are appealing to humans which could have lead to the nurturing of wolf puppies that then became hunting champions. Dogs/wolves have a highly stratified pack structure which would lend itself to human domination/leadership.

[Meri]

I heard an idea, though I have no idea how credible it is, that the domestication of dogs was at least partly initiated by the dogs themselves. The idea is, as best as I can remember, that some wolves learned that by cooperating with humans, they got things like warmth from fire, greater protection, and so on. Unfortuantly, someone told me this idea, said they had a book about it, then remembered they'd lost the book, so I can't explain very well.

[Soapy Sam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Silver_Fox

This ongoing experiment suggests how easy it is to domesticate canids.

Wolves are social hunters. Humans are social hunters. Also, for some odd reason, we just like each other.

I do rather wonder why we did not domesticate the African Wild Dog, which is equally social and at least as bright as a wolf.

[Ericka]

I'm more of a Cat person. Does anyone have information on early cats living with people?

[Metullus]

Cats don't "live with people". Cats enslave people. There is a difference.

[ImaginalDisc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Silver_Fox

This ongoing experiment suggests how easy it is to domesticate canids.

Wolves are social hunters. Humans are social hunters. Also, for some odd reason, we just like each other.

I do rather wonder why we did not domesticate the African Wild Dog, which is equally social and at least as bright as a wolf.

Were african wild dogs feral dogs that made off on their own, like the American Mustang, or purely wild stock?

[Soapy Sam]

No. Different species entirely from the domestic dog. Different genus in fact.
So far as I know they have never been domesticated.
http://www.kidsplanet.org/factsheets/african_wild_dog.html

[ImaginalDisc]

No. Different species entirely from the domestic dog. Different genus in fact.
So far as I know they have never been domesticated.
http://www.kidsplanet.org/factsheets/african_wild_dog.html

Very interesting. No relationship to the besenji breed of dogs? The resemblence is remarkable.

[TragicMonkey]

Forget dogs and cats. What we need is helper meercats. Those things are seriously cute. They could kill thousands of people, but because they're so cute, we'd never be able to bring ourselves to fight back. If there were a Platonic Form for Cuteness, it would be a meercat. Awwww.

[AK-Dave]

Forget dogs and cats. What we need is helper meercats. Those things are seriously cute. They could kill thousands of people, but because they're so cute, we'd never be able to bring ourselves to fight back. If there were a Platonic Form for Cuteness, it would be a meercat. Awwww.
Plus, they taste so much better than dogs. :duck:

[Soapy Sam]

Very interesting. No relationship to the besenji breed of dogs? The resemblence is remarkable.

Touch of parallel development there , maybe. The wild dogs (aka "hunting dogs") have quite distinctive ears and colouring, as well as noticeable differences in paw structure.
They have highly developed social structure and a great deal of their behaviour appears to be learned , rather than innate. I have watched them hunt and kill Wildebeest . I was impressed by the degree of cooperation in the hunt and by what, frankly, looked like planning. I found them quite fascinating.

They just seem to be the sort of animal that would be easily domesticated and would fit well into human social structures, yet I've never heard of anyone making the attempt.

Meerkats are cool too.

[Polaris]

Touch of parallel development there , maybe. The wild dogs (aka "hunting dogs") have quite distinctive ears and colouring, as well as noticeable differences in paw structure.
They have highly developed social structure and a great deal of their behaviour appears to be learned , rather than innate. I have watched them hunt and kill Wildebeest . I was impressed by the degree of cooperation in the hunt and by what, frankly, looked like planning. I found them quite fascinating.

They just seem to be the sort of animal that would be easily domesticated and would fit well into human social structures, yet I've never heard of anyone making the attempt.

Meerkats are cool too.

Cape Hunting Dogs (I think you mean these things: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/africanwilddog.htm) probably have it too good to adapt - as far as African predators go, they work less and benefit more than any large African cat, based on their body structure and method of hunting, which is an endurance/stamina model combined with pack tactic. But, given enough time, I could see adaptation among this species regarding humans. If it works for lions in Kruger Park (http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/King_of_beasts_in_the_line_of_fire.html) and lizards (iguanas in Florida, and the "ruin lizard" that seems to be most happy in the ruins of human dwellings and old stone walls), I don't see why hunting dogs couldn't, hypothetically, become domesticated.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

The chimp point is right. I know I wouldn't want a guide pet who could rip my arms off and beat me with them.

[Meri]

The chimp point is right. I know I wouldn't want a guide pet who could rip my arms off and beat me with them.

The best way to avoid this is to not, under any circumstances, call the chimp a monkey.

Or is that only orangutans?

[LawnOven]

The best way to avoid this is to not, under any circumstances, call the chimp a monkey.

Or is that only orangutans?

or make sure you bring enough birthday cake for the whole class...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/03/06/ferocity_of_chimpanzee_attack_stuns_medics_leaves_ questions/

[ImaginalDisc]

On a more serious note, I think part of the reason why dogs and humans partner well is that we both have the endurance to walk distances without neededing to take long breaks. Even horses must rest for hours after a long walk. Dogs can traverse the same terrain we can, provided they don't have to climb any sheer cliffs. And, dogs are also omnivorous so a human walking along, picking berries can also feed berries to his four legged friend.

[SteveGrenard]

When you work your way up to around 6500-7000 BC or 9K years ago, you may be interested in looking into this breed:

http://www.siuc.edu/aboutsiuc/saluki.html


Salukis definitely were around as early as 3500 B.C. because there are pictures of them on the walls of 5,467-year-old Egyptian tombs. Nothing else in the world looks exactly like a Saluki, so there’s no mistake about this. Actually, they may date back to Jericho, circa 6500 B.C. Fanciers of the breed contend that the real reason Joshua fit de battle there was to get his lunch hooks on a couple of fine rabbit hounds.

Also an excellent site here:

http://www.salukiofarabia.net/profile.htm


Hamad’s detailed research on the breed’s history shows that Salukis can be traced back to 5,000 BC -7,000 BC, when man spread out across the fertile lands known as Mesopotamia. In order to catch game, from necessity, early man began the domestication of the local wolf. With selective breeding they produced the first domesticated dog: the Saluki. The Saluki breed was bred to assist man in chasing prey and catching it in the harsh desert climate.


Also wikipedia article w/more links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluki

[Piggy]

Canine Evolution: A Shaggy Dog History (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/sci;298/5598/1540)

The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behaviour and Interactions with People (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=dI5jXrFVT88C&oi=fnd&pg=PP11&sig=WDLXr7RILCG5ogu6XNekqmajGY0&dq=dogs+domestication+history&prev=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3Ddogs%2Bdomestication%2Bhistory%26sta rt%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)

A Natural History of Domesticated Mammals (http://books.google.com/books?id=cgL-EbbB8a0C&pg=PP7&lpg=PP7&dq=dogs+domestication+history&sig=J6rt57Up-HhNKWkwmDUCywRZNQw) - see chapter 4 "Dogs"

Phylogeny and Origin of the Domestic Dog (http://www.cabi-publishing.org/pdf/Books/0851995209/0851995209Ch1.pdf) (PDF)

Multiple and Ancient Origins of the Domestic Dog (http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wayne1.htm)

Evidence for domestication of the dog 12,000 years ago in the Natufian of Israel (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v276/n5688/abs/276608a0.html)

Testing the hypothesis that the domestic dog is derived from several different ancestral gray wolf populations (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ggs/72/4/72_229/_article/-char/en)

Genetic Evidence for an East Asian Origin of Domestic Dogs (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5598/1610)