9/11 Deniers pissing on graves once again

[MarkyX]

http://blog.abovetopsecret.com/wecomeinpeace/2006/09/911_graphic_novel_the_real_ver.html

At least my comics are funny.

[realitybites]

To borrow a line from the Great Dylan Avery:

Whatever....

[Josh Redstone]

The comments alone are rediculous.....
Seems like every time I think I've seen the worst side of these conspiracy theorists, I see something like this that makes them appear to sink even lower.

[joemailman]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

[chipmunk stew]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?
Do you find this funny?


"THEY'RE GOING TO CRASH INTO NEW YORK! WE SHOULD RUSH THEM!"
"DUDE...THEY HAVE BOXCUTTERS."
"OH YEAH...SORRY...I FORGOT AGAIN. DOH!"


This is "satire" of flight 11--the first plane to strike its target.
This sick [rule 8] doesn't even see the irony in the fact that the only passengers who understood their fate DID rush their hijackers. [Rule 8]ing [rule 8]!

[KingMerv00]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

I am not a Conservative, I have no faith, I am not trusting. I suppose I could be considered conventional because I am in the majority.

[chipmunk stew]

I am not a Conservative, I have no faith, I am not trusting. I suppose I could be considered conventional because I am in the majority.
Ditto.

[bob_kark]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?
I just love the way you guys buy the loony packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it??? Insane? Immature? How 'bout Gullible? Paranoid?

[Bell]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

I just hate the way you guys disrespect the victims of that day. It is so.... so... how shall I put it? Arrogant? Insulting? How about f#cking disgusting?

[negativ]

Re: the "boxcutters aren't dangerous" thing -

First of all, I note with regret the complete lack of CTists offering to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of "box cutters" as weapons. They should have no problem whatsoever being strapped unarmed into a chair in a confined space and left to fight off a couple or three adrenaline-fueled attackers armed only with box cutters and a furious god on their side.

Ask any prison guard how comfortable they would be issuing box cutters along with prison uniforms. Prisoners have infamously fashioned quite lethal weapons for who knows how many years from plastic combs, toothbrush handles, even sharpened bones from T-bones and pork chops. The idea that you need some sort of huge Crocodile Dundee / Rambo knife to be utterly deadly is one that obviously comes from leading a sheltered life.

Second, in the mid 1990s, I used to carry something very similar to this. (http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=41) Once upon a time, I had to take a family member to the airport. In those days, you could go through security and wait at the boarding gate without a boarding pass or ticket. I got up to the security station and remembered my knife. I asked the screener if I needed to leave it with him or go back and return it to my car, fully prepared to relenquish it permanently rather than cause a fuss or undue alarm. The screener looked at it for about 3 seconds and told me to just put it in the bucket with my keys and continue on through. That's anecdotal to be sure, but there's no reason to believe that it would have been impossible or even especially unlikely for the 9/11 hijackers to have been armed with more "traditional" knives.

Not that it makes a damned bit of difference anyway. I'm sure the galley was well stocked with forks and knives and other pointy things that could have been just as dangerous.

[dirtywick]

And actually, when you think of a utility knife, you think of the little blade pointing out 1/2 an inch or less. You know, how you'd use it for practical purposes like cutting a box. But most of them you can extend out a good 4-5 inches and they're very sharp; they have to be to make precision cuts. Those would make very dangerous and substantial weapons.

[Belz...]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

So no one can agree with it without beign conservative ?

[MarkyX]

So no one can agree with it without beign conservative ?

Belz...don't you already know? These idiots see this as a "left-right" issue. It's nothing more than a political agenda for these nuts.

[chipmunk stew]

All this talk about how dangerous a boxcutter actually is is really beside the point, though, isn't it?

The only hijacked flight in history in which passengers rushed the hijackers was the one in which the passengers knew that it was their only option--flight 93. And guess what? The hijackers on that flight were armed with boxcutters and mace. And yet, it didn't stop the passengers once they'd made up their minds.

So boxcutters aren't all that dangerous after all...that is, not if you know that it's all that stands between you and the possibility of avoiding certain death.

[chipmunk stew]

Belz...don't you already know? These idiots see this as a "left-right" issue. It's nothing more than a political agenda for these nuts.
But Mark, "It's not about left or right. It's about right and wrong!" :rolleyes:

[MarkyX]

All this talk about how dangerous a boxcutter actually is is really beside the point, though, isn't it?

The only hijacked flight in history in which passengers rushed the hijackers was the one in which the passengers knew that it was their only option--flight 93. And guess what? The hijackers on that flight were armed with boxcutters and mace. And yet, it didn't stop the passengers once they'd made up their minds.

So boxcutters aren't all that dangerous after all...that is, not if you know that it's all that stands between you and the possibility of avoiding certain death.

That and the bombs did not exist. The hijackers KNEW that if it was just boxcutters, the passengers might rush in. However, to create fake explosives on your body and say "we have a bomb"...no one is really going to touch you unless they knew they were going to die anyways.

[KingMerv00]

Were there not fake bombs as well?

[jon]

That and the bombs did not exist. The hijackers KNEW that if it was just boxcutters, the passengers might rush in. However, to create fake explosives on your body and say "we have a bomb"...no one is really going to touch you unless they knew they were going to die anyways.

yeah, like looking down the barrel of what might be an unloaded gun - the only way to test this has rather unpleasant consequences if you're wrong.

[stateofgrace]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

I have a couple of dogs that are faithful and trusting. So my reading of your remarks is that you are likening those that don't subscribe to your insanity to dogs.

You pathetic attempts to do so and not condemn this type of nonsense invalidate your opinions.

Had you the slightest shred of humanity you would quickly and swiftly condemn this. But I guess your obedience to your CT masters stops you from doing so.

[uruk]

The guys who make jokes about plastic knives never went shopping at BudK.:
http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=CHP
http://budk.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_CS92FBB
http://budk.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_CS92FTP

Or ever heard of plastic products like Grivory, or Zytel.

[Bell]

All this talk about how dangerous a boxcutter actually is is really beside the point, though, isn't it?

The only hijacked flight in history in which passengers rushed the hijackers was the one in which the passengers knew that it was their only option--flight 93. And guess what? The hijackers on that flight were armed with boxcutters and mace. And yet, it didn't stop the passengers once they'd made up their minds.

So boxcutters aren't all that dangerous after all...that is, not if you know that it's all that stands between you and the possibility of avoiding certain death.

Passengers onboard UA175 where thinking about storming the hijackers as well.

[CptColumbo]

All this talk about how dangerous a boxcutter actually is is really beside the point, though, isn't it?

The only hijacked flight in history in which passengers rushed the hijackers was the one in which the passengers knew that it was their only option--flight 93. And guess what? The hijackers on that flight were armed with boxcutters and mace. And yet, it didn't stop the passengers once they'd made up their minds.

So boxcutters aren't all that dangerous after all...that is, not if you know that it's all that stands between you and the possibility of avoiding certain death.

As you say, it wasn't just "boxcutters," it was also utillity knives, probable fake bombs, and mace. There was also the psychological impact of stabbing and, in some cases, killing passengers, and crew members. An important fact that some overlook is that according to the calls placed to AA and UA, by the crews and those of the passengers, in some cases, the pilots were already dead. How likely would it be that the passengers would want to rush the hijackers when, as far as they know, the only pilot alive on board is one of the hijackers? Especially the people on the on the flights 11 175 and 77.

[kookbreaker]

Just rememeber: D.B. Cooper didn't even have a boxcutter.

[dirtywick]

I mean, there's a lot of other motivators for not wanting to take the plane back, like, in addition to what's been mentioned, being conditioned by the media and entertainment industries to always stay calm and quiet and let the professional authorities negotiate and handle the situation for you.

But still, they always seem to imply that none of the highjackings should have been successful because boxcutters are the equivelant of a Muslim slapstick comic with a floppy fish and beef jerky duct taped to an alarm clock. It's pretty offensive for people to make it seem that the possibility of hijackers using boxcutters, which are actually long, sharp blades, pretty dangerous weapons, is laughable and a joke. It's not, those things can cut you wide open, they're very dangerous.

[Gravy]

This is an excerpt from my new Loose Change Guide, which will be released...sometime.

Avery is not alone in his hero-delusions, in which real men don’t take guff from armed terrorists. James Fetzer, the unhinged co-chair of the conspiracy group Scholars for 9/11 Truth, said on camera at a conference in Los Angeles that if the hijackers were real, “American” passengers would have beaten them to death with their luggage. Therefore, the hijackers were not real. The crowd found this statement amusing. Perhaps in his senescence he’s forgotten that the hijackers told the passengers they had bombs on board, and that prior to 9/11, the rule was to cooperate with hijackers in order to get the plane on the ground safely.

Perhaps he’s also forgetting that real American heroes took action on board flight 93, and gave their lives that others might live.

How about Loose Change Forum Administrator “JohnDoeX,” who claims to be an airline pilot on leave due to stress, which accounts for the time he has to make up to 200 posts per day on that forum. Pilots who’ve read and posted to that forum have cast serious doubt on the idea that Mr. DoeX has piloted large passenger planes, as does this post of his (typos not corrected):

If hes trying to take over my ship. .and all he has is a boxcutter? Im gonna grab my crash axe and chop him up... while tossing fire extingushers to passengers. .you? Or do you cower and say.. "Please dont cut me Mr. Big Bad Terrorist" Wow. Swinging an axe while tossing fire extinguishers! Another armchair hero who, like Dylan Avery, doesn’t seem to be aware that all airlines trained their crews to cooperate with hijackers in order to get the plane on the ground safely. Not to mention the fact that the crash axe in a 757 or 767 is far behind the pilots, who fly harnessed in their seats, with a large center console between them. Perhaps if Mr. DoeX is as stressed-out as he seems, he flies with an axe in his lap.

The American Airlines pilots involved in Tuesday's terrorist attacks were trained not to fight with hijackers.

"Attempt to establish a rapport with the hijackers," the American flight manual tells pilots. "Do not negotiate with the hijackers -- allow trained negotiators to do this. Never attempt to overpower a hijacker."

Another section warns pilots to "be alert for passengers wanting to become heroes and discourage unwanted intervention" by them. http://tinyurl.com/qgwxh

[T.A.M.]

awesome, as always Gravy. Keep up the fantastic work.

TAM

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I just love the way you guys buy the official packages. It's so.....so.....how shall I put it???? Conventional? Conservative? How 'bout Faithful? Trusting?

I think the phrase for which you are looking is, "Evidence based."

[Blackadder_no]

It's not, those things can cut you wide open, they're very dangerous.

You don't need to tell me; I've still got the scars from almost cutting my thumb off with one of those. I've always handled them far more carefully than any other type of knife.

[steve s]

The guys who make jokes about plastic knives never went shopping at BudK.:
http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=CHP
http://budk.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_CS92FBB
http://budk.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_CS92FTP

Or ever heard of plastic products like Grivory, or Zytel.

A big THANK YOU!

Years ago (pre 9/11) I saw some knives like that. When 9/11 happened and they mentioned plastic knives that was the first thing I thought of, not the hobby knives that everyone talks about. I tried to look for them on the net but couldn't find them. Thanks for pointing them out.

Steve S.

[Axiom_Blade]

As you say, it wasn't just "boxcutters," it was also utillity knives, probable fake bombs, and mace.

The deniers advance myths about the event in order to promote their theories.
We can never deal with 9-11 properly if we allow it to get distorted this way...

[ponderingturtle]

Just rememeber: D.B. Cooper didn't even have a boxcutter.

Remember also that some of the most successful bank robbers only need a pen and paper.

[ponderingturtle]

A big THANK YOU!

Years ago (pre 9/11) I saw some knives like that. When 9/11 happened and they mentioned plastic knives that was the first thing I thought of, not the hobby knives that everyone talks about. I tried to look for them on the net but couldn't find them. Thanks for pointing them out.

Steve S.

Those are probably more lethal the boxcutters because they stab better instead of cut.

[uruk]

Those are probably more lethal the boxcutters because they stab better instead of cut.


The first knife on the list can cut flesh fairly well. Not anything like a boxcutter can, but good enough to cause a gashing wound.


Don't ask me how I know. Let's just say that I should stay away from knives for the benefit of my own health.

[ponderingturtle]

The first knife on the list can cut flesh fairly well. Not anything like a boxcutter can, but good enough to cause a gashing wound.


Don't ask me how I know. Let's just say that I should stay away from knives for the benefit of my own health.

Mabey, I have not handeled to many of them and those that I have I was unimpressed with their cutting ability. But I have seen stabing demonstrations that led me to believe that that could to real harm to someone.

Call the mythbusters?

Personaly anyone who downplays the threat of a weapon should get a chance to back up their words, unfortunately such duels are not legal.

[Toro]

That was funny.

[shuize]

A previous post of mine on the boxcutter issue:
The next time some wackjob tells me how easy it would be to take someone on boxcutter vs. bare hands, I'm going to challenge them to put up or shut up.

I'll be the one holding the cutter, of course.

Having previously worked in a profession related to court services, I've had occasion to view the results of knife/razor blade fights. I guarantee you, four big guys armed with cutters in a small area would clean house. It's amazing to me that anyone was able to get in the cockpit of flight 93 at all. Those passengers are f*cking heros.

[einsteen]

I'm not really into all those CT details, what is the official story about those boxcutters etc ? What equipment did they have on-board ?

[Skylark]

I thought that there was one section that was pretty funny on that thing though; the hostages. ^^

"Amhed Al Bean"

I nearly pissed myself at that.

But anyway, to the point of the topic: If they wanted, they could have taken over the plane with ballpoint pens. (In primary school another student stabbed me in the neck with one and I nearly died; trust me, a bunch of terrorists could do it too :P)

But the fact that they threatened the passengers with a bomb should be evidence enough that the Loosers look for another tree to bark up.

[einsteen]

Taken over the plane with ballpoint pens.. oh yes very realistic. On my school there was a guy who burned me with a lighter. Nobody would expect I kicked him into all corners of the class, even the teacher's jaws were dropping because I was the silent student.

What's your life worth if your life will end? And psychologically seen, what will happen in panic situations, from a psychologist I've heard that there are 3 possibilities,

- Total chaos because of adrenaline, you are going to attack, you will do it
- You stiffen by fear, you can do nothing.
- You want to escape.

[Matthew Best]

What's your life worth if your life will end?

Quite a bit, as was proved on United 93.

However, nobody on the other planes had any reason to think that their lives were about to end just because they had been hijacked.

I'm sure this has been pointed out many, many times. I wonder why it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

[Gravy]

Quite a bit, as was proved on United 93.
Eloquently said, Matthew.

[einsteen]

Ok chance 1/4

[Gravy]

Taken over the plane with ballpoint pens.. oh yes very realistic.
Surely you've heard that the pen is mightier than the sword? :)

[MortFurd]

Ok chance 1/4

Not likely these days. 911 pretty well convinced people not to play around with hijackers. The assumption today is that the hijacker is there to kill you, and people react (have reacted) accordingly. It is no longer "be nice to Mr. Hijacker so we can land safely." It's "kill that !@@#$@# quick before he kills us all."

From my point of view, actually a much healthier reaction. If that had always been the case, the crap would have ceased after the first hijackings in the 70's. We might have lost an airplane or two at the beginning, but weigh that against the lives lost on 911 and in all the other hijackings.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Taken over the plane with ballpoint pens.. oh yes very realistic. On my school there was a guy who burned me with a lighter. Nobody would expect I kicked him into all corners of the class, even the teacher's jaws were dropping because I was the silent student.

What's your life worth if your life will end? And psychologically seen, what will happen in panic situations, from a psychologist I've heard that there are 3 possibilities,

- Total chaos because of adrenaline, you are going to attack, you will do it
- You stiffen by fear, you can do nothing.
- You want to escape.

This is called 9/12 thinking; the act of applying the knowledge you had on 9/12 to the events of 9/11.