Prescription Drug Madness

[corplinx]

Anyone esle up in arms over this? In the 2000 election, Gore promised and everything and the kitchen sink to get elected. So Bush countered. One of those giveaways was a "prescription drug benefit" for senior citizens.

However, 78 percent of Seniors have no problem buying prescription drugs. So, guess who the benefit is going to? All of them!

This has to be the most retarded thing I have ever seen the GOP do. That party needs a good slap with the newt stick. Yeah, Newt was an a**hole to his wife or whatever. But you would have never seen this kind of expansion of government power and wasteful spending during his reign as house speaker.

What happened to efficient, targeted, and responsible social spending?

Personally, I find the whole idea of a "prescription drug benefit" silly. It sounds like a few seniors need more social security. Instead of cutting off people who get social security and don't need it and then increasing the benefit for people who need drugs to live, we create a whole new bureacracy.

Of course, I am a drastic person who wants to combine welfare, social security, medicaid, and medicare. Cut the fica and medicare taxes. Then remove all tax deductions from the income tax and use one tax instead of 3.

It seems to me that one need-based health and monetary assistance program is all we need.

[Dancing David]

Just wonedring, where does that sevent-eight percent come from? Cause medicare sure ain't no Cadillac program, if it includes medicare recipients.

[SteveW]

I say if you are that sick and you need to take that many pills, you should just give up and die.

[jj]

Oh, the GOP would never pander to a mostly-conservative constituancy, now, never. Ever. Obviously they wouldn't. Right?

SteveW, you and Yeti ought to form a board at www.meanpeople.org. How 'bout it?

You might yet get old yourself.

[kittynh]

There are people who aren't SEniors who need help buying their drugs. I think it should be on a need basis. I have a friend with cancer, just one of her drugs is $3,000. She also has another drug she has priced a $80 a pill. She has sold her car, and is in danger of losing her house as well as her life. My mother in law, a senior , spends more on her horses than she does on meds.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by kittynh
There are people who aren't SEniors who need help buying their drugs. I think it should be on a need basis. I have a friend with cancer, just one of her drugs is $3,000. She also has another drug she has priced a $80 a pill. She has sold her car, and is in danger of losing her house as well as her life. My mother in law, a senior , spends more on her horses than she does on meds.


My point exactly. I thought the whole point of "safety nets" was need based assistance. The drug benefit doesnt discriminate based on need, it discriminates based on age.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

All we need is one welfare program in america to assist people of any age.

[Julia]

Though I am not a senior, I am on Medicare after a few years of disability. It pays for my office visits - which is great - but not for any prescriptions.

This past Fall, thanks to a wonderful doctor, I found some medicine that has really given me my life back. Once again I can drive, do house work, garden . . . basically all the things I once took for granted.

So what's the problem? The prescription costs over $800. Every month. With a couple of other necessary meds, it costs just over $1000 a month. I have managed to come up with it up until now, but I will be unable to continue paying for it much longer.

So SteveW, shall I just pull the plug now?

[Graham]

Originally posted by Julia
Though I am not a senior, I am on Medicare after a few years of disability. It pays for my office visits - which is great - but not for any prescriptions.

This past Fall, thanks to a wonderful doctor, I found some medicine that has really given me my life back. Once again I can drive, do house work, garden . . . basically all the things I once took for granted.

So what's the problem? The prescription costs over $800. Every month. With a couple of other necessary meds, it costs just over $1000 a month. I have managed to come up with it up until now, but I will be unable to continue paying for it much longer.

So SteveW, shall I just pull the plug now?

Sorry to interrupt, Julia but as a person from another country, I'm interested to know what will happen if you can't come up with the money.

Is there no state facility in place to cover this eventuality? Will they just make you do without?

Graham

[shemp]

Originally posted by Graham


Sorry to interrupt, Julia but as a person from another country, I'm interested to know what will happen if you can't come up with the money.

Is there no state facility in place to cover this eventuality? Will they just make you do without?

Graham

Um, yes they will.

I'm afraid it's a hard concept for some Europeans to grasp, but the U.S. isn't run on a semi-socialist basis. Sadly, our society often does let people get sick and die because they can't afford the necessary treatment, and they don't have health insurance, and Medicare won't cover it.

Most U.S. public hospitals will provide a minimal level of emergency care for free to the indigent, but they will not provide anything more extensive such as expensive drugs or a transplant. And even then, the public ends up paying for that care through increased medical costs to those who have insurance or can pay.

This is when the charities step in. If you're lucky, you might get one to help raise funds, but this usually only happens if you are young and have an unusual or rare condition.

In my opinion, the U.S. healthcare system is this nation's greatest shame. The only advantage is that we don't pay high taxes to support a national healthcare system. But in the long run, we pay for it through higher costs and societal ills.

[Julia]

Originally posted by Graham


Sorry to interrupt, Julia but as a person from another country, I'm interested to know what will happen if you can't come up with the money.

Is there no state facility in place to cover this eventuality? Will they just make you do without?

Graham

Graham,
Though there is some state assistance through the medi-cal program, I do not qualify. I did apply, but was turned down because I own my home. My only option would be to sell my home and use the money to buy the prescription. I would still not qualify for medi-cal because the state would have me use the money made from the sale before I could once again apply for assistance.

And yes, if for any reason someone does not qualify for this state aid (and there are a variety of restrictions, not just home ownership), the only option is to discontinue the medicine if unable to cover the cost. It seems that only those on the far ends of the spectrum, very low or very high income, are able to obtain many prescriptions.

How different is it in your country?

[Graham]

Originally posted by shemp


Um, yes they will.

I'm afraid it's a hard concept for some Europeans to grasp, but the U.S. isn't run on a semi-socialist basis. Sadly, our society often does let people get sick and die because they can't afford the necessary treatment, and they don't have health insurance, and Medicare won't cover it.

*snip*

In my opinion, the U.S. healthcare system is this nation's greatest shame. The only advantage is that we don't pay high taxes to support a national healthcare system. But in the long run, we pay for it through higher costs and societal ills.

And is this a situation that most Americans are happy with or not, do you think?

I presume most Americans of "middle class" or higher (i.e. anyone who's really in a position to make a significant protest) probably has insurance. Does that have any relevance, do you think?

Graham

[tamiO]

Originally posted by kittynh
There are people who aren't SEniors who need help buying their drugs. I think it should be on a need basis. I have a friend with cancer, just one of her drugs is $3,000. She also has another drug she has priced a $80 a pill. She has sold her car, and is in danger of losing her house as well as her life. My mother in law, a senior , spends more on her horses than she does on meds.

I was watching the House Floor (US Congress) yesterday and there were two reps speaking about the high cost of drugs here as compared to an airport pharmacy in Germany. Same drugs; vastly different prices. I was outraged.

:mad:

[Graham]

Originally posted by Julia


Graham,
Though there is some state assistance through the medi-cal program, I do not qualify. I did apply, but was turned down because I own my home. My only option would be to sell my home and use the money to buy the prescription. I would still not qualify for medi-cal because the state would have me use the money made from the sale before I could once again apply for assistance.

And yes, if for any reason someone does not qualify for this state aid (and there are a variety of restrictions, not just home ownership), the only option is to discontinue the medicine if unable to cover the cost. It seems that only those on the far ends of the spectrum, very low or very high income, are able to obtain many prescriptions.

How different is it in your country?

We have a helth system much like the NHS in Britain - not quite so screwed up but similar.

We have a two-tier system in place where you can choose to also take out private health care insurance which will pay for better accomodation, maybe quicker treatment, or you can rely wholly on the state system, as I do at the moment. I have found this perfectly satisfactory throughout a number of medical situations.

I pay what's called PRSI (Pay-Related Social Insurance) out of my salary every month as do all people with a minimum annual income. My employer also contributes on my behalf. This is divided into Social Insurance (which goes towards welfare, etc) and Health Contribution which goes, as the name suggests, towards the health care system.

Any and all illnesses requiring hospitalisation will be "paid for" by the government. There are waiting lists for many procedures, however and the usual other problems associated with such systems.

As far as prescriptions go, everyone pays for the first (I think) €90 a month and then you can claim the rest back from the government.

How does the system work for the handicapped in the US? My son, for instance, who has Downs Syndrome, has had no end of medical problems and has needed various therapies, special assistance, etc over the years. If we were living in the US, would I have had to cme up with that money myself?

Also, I have two children who were born prematurely and who spent some time in PICU on incubators. I believe the costs for that run into tens of thousands per day, which, obviously, I could never have paid myself. What happens in that situation?

Graham

Edited to add - We do pay for GP visits and, in the past year, Emergency Room visits too. I think it's about €40 a time. There is a medical card scheme that entitles the bearer to completely free medical care but you have to be very, very, low income to get one.

[shemp]

Originally posted by Graham


And is this a situation that most Americans are happy with or not, do you think?

I presume most Americans of "middle class" or higher (i.e. anyone who's really in a position to make a significant protest) probably has insurance. Does that have any relevance, do you think?

Graham

Those who are opposed to a national healthcare system (conservatives, big insurers) do everything they can to prevent it. All they have to do is trot out the words "socialist," "liberal" and "higher taxes," and they scare enough people into voting against it.

I have more to say, but I have to go to work, so I'll reply further later.

[Dancing David]

We used to have a safety net but then Slick Willy bowed to the conservatives and went and trashed it, IE 'welfare reform'.

If you are an 'able bodied adult' who doesn't have children then you just have to get sick and die.

Sure hospitals have 'forgiveness programs' which is why some people hear from the bill collector everyday,
sure the pharmacuticals have 'assistance programs' , if you have no assets, no money , no nothing.

But hey, thats the wonder of capitalism. The powerful people don't have to worry cause they can fix the health plans the way they want.

[Tony]

I was watching the House Floor (US Congress) yesterday and there were two reps speaking about the high cost of drugs here as compared to an airport pharmacy in Germany. Same drugs; vastly different prices. I was outraged.


Why are drugs so expensive here and not in germany?

[Attrayant]

All of them, probably. (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030609/health/9drugs.htm)

[Tony]

Originally posted by Attrayant
All of them, probably. (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030609/health/9drugs.htm)

Thanks for the article, it gives me some good ideas.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Dancing David
We used to have a safety net but then Slick Willy bowed to the conservatives and went and trashed it, IE 'welfare reform'.

If you are an 'able bodied adult' who doesn't have children then you just have to get sick and die.


You might want to research that. I'm not sure I agree with either of those statements.

[kittynh]

I live close enough to Canada that many people here truck up there for their drugs. They also can buy them more cheaply over the internet from Canada. Worth checking out if you are paying too much.

I can't help but hope this system will finally get an overhaul. Every year what I have to pay into kitty for health care goes up, but what I get goes down. It's awful. Everyone else seems to be in the same boat. Doctors are having fits too. All my MD friends are losing money. One doctor in town isn't taking insurance at all, she just charges $35 for a 20 minute visit. With my deductable going up to $25 it won't be long until it's just as cheap to see her.

[Tony]

Originally posted by kittynh

I can't help but hope this system will finally get an overhaul. Every year what I have to pay into kitty for health care goes up, but what I get goes down. It's awful. Everyone else seems to be in the same boat. Doctors are having fits too. All my MD friends are losing money. One doctor in town isn't taking insurance at all, she just charges $35 for a 20 minute visit. With my deductable going up to $25 it won't be long until it's just as cheap to see her.

Shouldnt we address the root causes of the failures? What are they?

[corplinx]

Here is something I have always wondered. People compare drug prices in other countries and the US. In many of those countries there are price controls on the drugs. Do the companies have to jack up the uncontrolled price in the US to make up for the lower margins in the other countries?

Always wondered about this.

[Gideon S]

Julia,

My mother is in a very similar situation, and I would suggest that you look into buying meds from Mexico or Canada and having them mailed to you.

caveat:

THIS IS ILLEGAL, but it's better than the alternative, and I've never heard of anyone going to jail for it.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by corplinx
Here is something I have always wondered. People compare drug prices in other countries and the US. In many of those countries there are price controls on the drugs. Do the companies have to jack up the uncontrolled price in the US to make up for the lower margins in the other countries?

Always wondered about this.

I've heard that it was due to the high cost of lobbying the FDA to get a drug approved for market in the US.

[Lemastre]

Originally posted by Graham
I presume most Americans of "middle class" or higher (i.e. anyone who's really in a position to make a significant protest) probably has insurance. Does that have any relevance, do you think?

Graham Many folks over 65 have only the government-provided Medicare insurance, which does not pay for prescriptions. Older persons who have a chronic condition or a certain medical history find that insurance companies won't cover them. If they can get private insurance, the premiums are usually several hundred dollars a month. The elderly who depend on Medicare are extremely numerous and do wield power in Washington. That's why prescription coverage is being considered.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by corplinx


You might want to research that. I'm not sure I agree with either of those statements.

Uh, where is there the safety net?

In Illinois you have to be not an 'able bodied adult' to qualify for medical benefits and then you have to meet a fairly punative income standard. If you don't get SSI and make $600 a month in SSDI then you will have to pay about two hundred dollars a month before you get medical coverage.

If you have a catastrophic illness it's kind of random if Medicaid will step in and pay, depends on how soon you are able bodied after the illness. There are also income and property limits.

If you have children then there is a lifetime limit of five years on your benefit.

Where do you get your information? I do know what I'm talking about. ( I work with this crap all the time)

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by corplinx
Here is something I have always wondered. People compare drug prices in other countries and the US. In many of those countries there are price controls on the drugs. Do the companies have to jack up the uncontrolled price in the US to make up for the lower margins in the other countries?

Always wondered about this.

I heard that it was the profit motive and that the rest is just spin. Pharmacutical companies also recieve huge amount of grant funding, the motive is profit.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I heard that it was the profit motive and that the rest is just spin. Pharmacutical companies also recieve huge amount of grant funding, the motive is profit.

I am sure profit is a consideration. However, I also wonder what the wholesale markup is in the US versus a price controlled country. I also wonder how much markup they need to make producing the drug worthwhile.