Rochester NY bans marilyn manson

[Nie Trink Wasser]

free speech you say ?

evil fascist conservatives you say ?




http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news.asp?contentID=213692


NEWS - Marilyn Manson Banned In Rochester?
06/06/2003



(6/6/03, 6 p.m. ET) -- Marilyn Manson has been left off the bill for the Rochester, New York date of this summer's OzzFest tour, reports the Democrat And Chronicle newspaper. A spokesperson at the Six Flags Darien Lake in Rochester, Laura Spallone, told the publication, "Several people in the area expressed an uncomfortable feeling about having that artist in our area."


Tour promoters Clear Channel chose to not back Manson and preferred to stay out of the controversy surrounding the August 11 date at the Darien Center. The company said in a statement, "It's Six Flags decision..." And it stressed that Manson is welcome to play in Buffalo venues as he previously has, added the Democrat And Chronicle.


The fact that Six Flags doesn't want Manson on the bill doesn't come as a surprise to the shock rocker. In a previous interview, he said that he's not exactly the darling of concert venues and sponsors. "It's always difficult to find a building to let us play in," Manson said. "All the building owners don't want to deal with Marilyn Manson or their stockholders will protest, there's always that. It comes down to everything. A hotel is hard to get. People don't want anything to do with me."

Marilyn Manson came up against something similar in 1997 when venues in New Jersey and Louisiana refused to let him perform his OzzFest set. He threatened legal action against the venues, who eventually gave in and let him play.

Manson and his management were in Europe and couldn't be reached for comment. His publicist and the OzzFest spokespeople also couldn't be reached for comment at press time.

[Denise]

I find it ironic that he is touring with Ozzy. It seems that in the eighties Ozzy had the same problem, but now he's considered ok. I wonder why that is?

I remember the unsuccessful lawsuit against Ozzy about a teenager who commited suicide that was attributed to his song "Suicide Solution." Most rational people realized that the song was about alcohol and not an enticement to suicide but the fundies had a heyday. And the biting the head off of a dove- of course, that one was true. And the fact that he pissed at the Alamo.

I'd like to know what Marilyn Manson has done compared to what Ozzy has done?

[Khalid01]

All the building owners don't want to deal with Marilyn Manson or their stockholders will protest, there's always that. It comes down to everything. A hotel is hard to get. People don't want anything to do with me.

Sounds like capitalism in action, to me. I don't see any portion of the politcal spectrum directly connected to this. No one must hold a concert for Manson if they don't want to for whatever their reasons. And if someone does host them, then they get the revenue, it's that simple, and entirely apolitical. Am I missing some sort of veiled sarcasm?

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Denise
I'd like to know what Marilyn Manson has done compared to what Ozzy has done?

Good question.

I don't know the answer but I'll bet the age of the fans have a lot to do with it.

Now that Ozzy's fan base has grown up he's probably not seen as threatening. Parents aren't walking in and finding their kids listening to Ozzy but they are finding them listening to Marilyn (and are horrified, hehe).

That's just a guess of course.

No one would probably complain about Alice Cooper or David Bowie although there was a time when they would have.

It is pretty dumb, of course, but it is Six Flags right.

Don't these people realize that it only adds to his notoriety?

You can't buy publicity like that, hehe.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

I'd like to know what Marilyn Manson has done compared to what Ozzy has done?




the media blamed him for the Columbine murders, Manson was taken to trial over a suicide for the song ' Reflecting God ', he was taken to court for placing his balls on a security guard's head during a show, arrested for wearing a dildo onstage, the list goes on and on.

I think the motivations for opposition to him can be seen in the censoring of the song ' the nobodies ' when it was released . The words "dead", "death", and "ratings" were cut out of the released version. Here are the complete lyrics :


"• Today I am dirty • I want to be pretty • Tomorrow, I know I'm just dirt • • We are the nobodies • we wanna be somebodies • when we're dead, • they'll know just who we are • • Yesterday I was dirty • wanted to be pretty • I know now that I'm forever dirt • • We are the nobodies • we wanna be somebodies • when we're dead, • they'll know just who we are • • Some children died the other day • we fed machines and then we prayed • puked up and down in morbid faith • you should have seen the ratings that day... "



I think the censoring of this song is a very very interesting piece to a real problem in our country.

[Tmy]

This reminds me of Bill Oreillys weekly rant against rap music.

I cant help but roll my eyes at his dopey arguments. Its obvious that he doesnt listen to the stuff, he just picks out some choice lyrics and generalizes.

Does he realize that in his day people said the same aboutthe Beetles, Stones, and whatever geezer bands he likes.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy

Does he realize that in his day people said the same aboutthe Beetles, Stones, and whatever geezer bands he likes.


I dont seem to remember the Beetles singing about drug dealing and drive-by shootings.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Tony



I dont seem to remember the Beetles singing about drug dealing and drive-by shootings.

HAHAHHAHA! The Beetles are responsible for exposing an entire generation to drugs. They helped to create the drug induced society we have today. They're convicted druggies, and I beleive they were even jailed for drugs.

"Lucy in the Sky with Dimonds" is not about a girl. (LSD, get it.)

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy


HAHAHHAHA! The Beetles are responsible for exposing an entire generation to drugs. They helped to create the drug induced society we have today. They're convicted druggies, and I beleive they were even jailed for drugs.

"Lucy in the Sky with Dimonds" is not about a girl. (LSD, get it.)


No s--t!!! I used to listen to that song when I was on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". ;)

Still, I dont remember them singing about dealing drugs or drive by shootings or killing people.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Tmy


HAHAHHAHA! The Beetles are responsible for exposing an entire generation to drugs. They helped to create the drug induced society we have today. They're convicted druggies, and I beleive they were even jailed for drugs.

"Lucy in the Sky with Dimonds" is not about a girl. (LSD, get it.)



bob dylan gave them their first joint and the grateful dead had just a BIT of LSD influence.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Tony



No s--t!!! I used to listen to that song when I was on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". ;)

Still, I dont remember them singing about dealing drugs or drive by shootings or killing people.


Drug dealings and drive buys dont exist? Whats wrong with rapping about them. Sure there are perfromers who glorify that behavior, but any genre has musicians who do that. Not just rap.

Can you give me an example of a group and song promoting such?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy



Drug dealings and drive buys dont exist? Whats wrong with rapping about them.


Child rape exists too, should they rap about how great that is??


Can you give me an example of a group and song promoting such?

Master P
South Park Mexican
Dj Screw
Ludacris
Eazy-E

just to name a few...

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Tony



Eazy-E

just to name a few...



Easy E??? HAHAHAHA!! He died of Aids about 6-7 years ago.

Your like Bill O. You know nothing about the genre. You here one sound clip and you condem the whole industry. How ignorant.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Denise
And the biting the head off of a dove- of course, that one was true. And the fact that he pissed at the Alamo.

And don't forget the bat incident which kind of led to the dove incident. Btw, the Alamo story is a corker. Do people in the US really feel that strongly about their monuments?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy




Easy E??? HAHAHAHA!! He died of Aids about 6-7 years ago.




You didn't ask for current examples.

Your[sic] like Bill O. You know nothing about the genre. You here[sic] one sound clip and you condem[sic] the whole industry.

You dont know what you're talking about, Ive listened to rap since I was 12. So much for skepticism.

How ignorant.

Cleary an evaluation of yourself.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser




bob dylan gave them their first joint and the grateful dead had just a BIT of LSD influence.

And that bloke who ran the Star Club in Germany introduced them to the drug of choice of the teddy boys (and later, the mods)--amphetamines.

[Tmy]

Of soure Id want current examples. If your going to condem rap music Id liek to haer current complaints. Instead of trotting out NWA's "Straight Out of Compton" which came out in the early 90s.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy
Of soure Id want current examples. If your going to condem rap music Id liek to haer current complaints.


You ignored the other (current) examples I gave.

Instead of trotting out NWA's "Straight Out of Compton" which came out in the early 90s

Of course, I didnt use that as an example.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

manson was a guest on Bill's show and debated him on the issue...I'll try and find a transcript.

[Monketey Ghost]

Originally posted by Tony



No sh**!!! I used to listen to that song when I was on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". ;)



I certainly hope Tony will be warned about cussing.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,32588,00.html



O'REILLY: What's your message? What are you trying to get across in the lyrics to these songs?

MANSON: It's always about being yourself and not being ashamed of being different or thinking different. I try and take everyone's ideals, common morals, flip them around, make people look at them differently, question them, so that you're not always taking things for granted.

O'REILLY: All right, noble. But why the bizarre getup? I mean, why the eye, why the nail polish, why the Satan stuff? You're a minister in the Church of Satan, right?

MANSON: No, not necessarily. That was...

O'REILLY: Well, I mean...

MANSON: ... that was the...

O'REILLY: Publicity stunt?

MANSON: No, no, no. It was a friend of mine who's now dead who was a philosopher that I thought that I'd learned a lot from, and that was a title that I was given. So a lot of people made a lot out of it.

O'REILLY: Yes, but, I mean, look, if you're a reverend in the Church of Satan...

MANSON: It's not a real job. I didn't get paid for it.

O'REILLY: But why -- if you want to get those kids, those lonely kids, and you want them to be able to be creative and burst out of that, why the bizarre presentation, which can be misinterpreted?

MANSON: I think everybody's got a presentation. Everybody looks a certain way because they want to convey a certain image. You look a certain way because you want people to listen to you in a certain way.

O'REILLY: But you've done some pretty bizarre things on stage. I mean, they tell me that you engaged in a sex act with another man on a stage in Miami. Is that true?

MANSON: To a certain degree, to a certain degree. It wasn't so much a formal sex act. No one was aroused.

O'REILLY: But why did you do that? Why would you do that?

MANSON: Somebody ran on stage and pulled down their pants. So rather than let them make a laugh out of me, I grabbed them and turned the joke around on them. My parents were in the audience, and...

O'REILLY: Your parents were in the audience?

MANSON: ... and I introduced my father to the gentleman that came onstage, so my father approved of it. I don't see it to be that shocking.

O'REILLY: But it was shocking.

MANSON: It was entertaining to me.

O'REILLY: To you.

MANSON: To me.

O'REILLY: But if kids saw that, if they saw you simulating or actually doing whatever happened, a sex act with another man, maybe they would go out and do it too.

MANSON: Well, I can't be blamed for something like that. You have to blame Richard Simmons and Liberace and people like that. I don't encourage people to choose any sort of sexuality. But I think I just try and entertain people. That's an odd example, because it was a rare occasion. Someone ran up on stage and took off their clothes. It's not something that I would normally do.

O'REILLY: But you...

MANSON: But I thought it was funny to me at the time.

O'REILLY: You have the stand on sex. You encourage kids to have sex.

MANSON: No, I don't -- I do have a lot of sexual imagery in my performance. But I don't think it's ever encouraging anyone to have sex. I think I just show my own sexuality, but I don't think I've ever really written about having sex or anything like that.

O'REILLY: You...

MANSON: I think that's, again, another thing that parents should be deciding.

[Frostbite]

Haha. Retards. They don't know what they're missing.

(Ok sorry this is getting old.)

[Frostbite]

Oh and doesn't Eminem and most rappers sing about rape, drive-bys and other crap? Why is that more socially acceptable than a genuine freak who sings about thinking different? People are so god damn stuck up sometimes, it's sickening.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

O'REILLY: You're a pretty well-spoken guy, yet in your records you use a lot of F-word, a lot of swearing and this and that. Again, is it necessary to get your message across to use that kind of language? Is it -- you use the sexual imagery, you use the shocking physical appearance, you've done some bizarre things on stage, and you use profanity. All that necessary?

MANSON: Sometimes. I think sometimes when you're making a point, I don't think that my lyrics are over-laced with profanity, because I myself don't speak using a lot of profanity in normal conversation. But I think when you're making something aggressive and you need to get a point across, if you're angry, sometimes profanity is necessary. It's better to use a curse word than to hurt somebody else, I find.

O'REILLY: You can take some of your lyrics as, you know, "You'll understand when I'm dead." I mean, disturbed kids could take the lyrics and say, you know, When I'm dead, everybody's going to know me.

MANSON: Well, I think that's a very valid point, and I think that that's a reflection of a -- not necessarily this program, but of television in general. If you die and enough people are watching, then you become a martyr, you become a hero, you become well-known. So when you have things like Columbine and you have these kids that are angry and they have something to say and no one's listening, the media sends a message that if you do something loud enough and it gets our attention, then you will be famous for it.

Those kids ended up on the cover of "Time" magazine. The media gave them exactly what they wanted. And that's why I never did any interviews when that happened, when I was getting blamed for it, because I felt that I would be contributing to what I found to be reprehensible.

O'REILLY: So you don't believe that your songs reflect any kind of suicide wish or anything like that?

MANSON: No, I feel that my songs talk about getting through feelings like that.

O'REILLY: What do your parents think of you?

MANSON: My parents, you know, at first weren't sure what I was doing. They wanted me to be a writer. I started out as a journalist. I still feel that I am a journalist, in a way, because I see things and I report them back to people in my own fashion, in songs or in interviews. My mom was always a big fan of Elvis. She made me listen to Elvis when I was a kid. I hated it. And I think now I've kind of grown up to fill in some of the sort of controversy that he created back in his day, but in a much more extreme, modern sense.

[tedly]

Now I feel really old. Every generation will push and push until they piss the fogeys off, and I know that some day my kid will tell me he wants to be an accountant, but....

It really hurt to read those things said about the beetles ( for whom God has an inordinate fondness) but it's The Beatles ! I'm tempted to put up Carl Hiaasen's test and ask if anyone here can name them.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

I'm tempted to put up Carl Hiaasen's test and ask if anyone here can name them. [/B]


sure I can !

it's Howie, Brian, Nick, A.J., and Kevin !

[BillyTK]

Just slightly off-tangent, I'm reminded of something the great Bill Hicks once said, if you wanted proof that the Beatles Band (;)) did vast amounts of drugs, just look at the fact that they let Ringo do the vocal on Yellow Submarine!

The Beatles' names? John Lenin, Paul McCarthy, Rex Harrison, Ringo Starr and Dung.

:D

[Rat]

Marilyn Manson at the Onion. In case no one's mentioned it yet. (http://www.theonion.com/onion3703/marilyn_mason.html)