More Vanity Videos with Gravy in Action

[Abbyas]

Haven't watched the whole thing, but if you wanna see Gravy at Ground Zero (myself and Reality Bites are in there too).

Check out Part 3B of LTW's We Love Ourselves series.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8820426888499996890

Edit: 40 minutes in, Jason Bermas tells me that the firefighters were paid off.

[Gravy]

I'm amazed they left all that in. The part with me and Abby starts at about 26:30 and runs for 22 minutes. Realitybites is also there trying to keep his cool. This was from Saturday, September 9. The only highlight they missed was Jones whirling around theatrically, pointing at me, and demanding to know what my real name was. He said, "Your name is Mark Ferguson!" and he looked his acolytes for support. No one said a thing. They left him high and dry. The camera caught the end of that episode. The guy who lost the bet to me about the Silverstein quote did not pay up. He scurried away.

This is quite timely, since this weekend I'll have a relevant paper finished.

On Monday the 11th I insisted that Jones go with me to FDNY 10 House to explain to the firemen what really happened. He said he wasn't speaking to me. Notice that Bermas told Abby that he would call me a punk and a betrayer of my country to my face. But when I approached him, all he said was, "Hi, Mark." He said he'd debate, though. It's on videotape!

What flipping jackasses.

[Blackadder_no]

Gawd, what a pathetic performance from Jones.

- "9/11 was an inside job!" repeated ad nauseum. Is this actually arguing?
- "Strawmen! Lies! Propaganda!"
- When stumped: "uh... um... - 9/11 was an inside job!" (rallying cry style).

[jsiv]

Haven't watched the whole thing, but if you wanna see Gravy at Ground Zero (myself and Reality Bites are in there too).

Check out Part 3B of LTW's We Love Ourselves series.

Edit: 40 minutes in, Jason Bermas tells me that the firefighters were paid off.
Can you prove that you're not receiving a monthly check from Olmert?

No?

Didn't think so!

[chacal]

The only highlight they missed was Jones whirling around theatrically, pointing at me, and demanding to know what my real name was. He said, "Your name is Mark Ferguson!" and he looked his acolytes for support.

Or is it De Niro?

How can you keep your cool with these guys. Especially with jones. You owned him with building 7 so he tryed to change the subject. At the end he was nervously playing with he's sunglasses hoping for a chance to have he's regular antipsychotics.

[Dragon]

Gawd, what a pathetic performance from Jones.

- "9/11 was an inside job!" repeated ad nauseum. Is this actually arguing?
- "Strawmen! Lies! Propaganda!"
- When stumped: "uh... um... - 9/11 was an inside job!" (rallying cry style).Yes, and he's always looking around for support from his little acolytes. I think the guy must be basically insecure.

Gravy - given your uncanny resemblace to a certain actor why don't you try this line on him next time?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_433451e42595aaa8.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1695)

"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking to?"

[jon]

So that's why Loose Change used footage from other sources - I've seen better camerawork on holiday videos. This makes me feel travel-sick :(

[bob_kark]

I don't understand why you didn't just debunk his very existence. It was a perfect opportunity.

Oh wait, he wouldn't listen long enough because he's not going to be defeated. I suppose it is more important to win than to be correct... Especially when you're dealing with human lives.

[bob_kark]

Geez Abby, I can't believe you didn't address the squibs properly. Sure, he didn't let you, but it obviously shows that you're wrong. On top of that, you refuse to agree that Gravy is a punk. I'm surprised he didn't slap you.

[einsteen]

Gravy, can debunk your actual existence

Cool video btw

[MarkyX]

I am soooo giong to do a bit of editing on this and slap the "good parts" together.

[Oliver]

NWO Inventor:

Hey Folks: How many of you know that 9/11 was an inside job?

Lemmings:

Uhm? ........ Yeeeah!

delicious...

I wonder when some of these guys are man enough to show up in here.
THE DECIDER (SUPERMOD) said he had problems to sign in to JREF.
Ever heard about such a Problem? Admins? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107451e5e850e23f.gif

.

[jhunter1163]

If Christo(rule8)ing-phera can get an account here, ANYONE can.

[Spins]

Why the hell did Alex Jones not want to answer that simple question about WTC7, he's a lunatic! As soon as he feels cornered he breaks out his strawman argument and or changes the subject by spouting off ten different other lies.

[Walk The Line]

Why the hell did Alex Jones not want to answer that simple question about WTC7, he's a lunatic!

Because he knew that Gravy had the facts on his side. Thus, he had to do whatever he could to shift the focus of the debate from that.

[StoneWT]

I am soooo giong to do a bit of editing on this and slap the "good parts" together.


This should be interesting. Jones has gotten a free pass for far too long. I wonder if Paul Joseph "punk kid" Watson will be dumb enough to link to this new video compilation by Mark?

[negativ]

It's really amazing that the thousands of dollars and [probably] hundreds of hours I've spent learning how to keep Mister Hand from turning into Mister Fist can be undone (temporarily) by a few minutes of an internet video.

Maybe I should seek a refund.:spunhappy_green:

[Bell]

Wow, great to see Mark (or Mark or Mark, or whoever he is) in action. He owned Alex Jones. What a looser that Jones is!

Great show Gravy!

btw, which do you prefer to be called by me from now on?
Strawman or dombo?

[Oliver]

...What a looser that Jones is!...

Indeed - he´s a very clever guy and he knows his business very well. Always at the edge to the point when he could be "a problem" to the gov or incredible to his followers... And strewing just enough to sell himself and his stuff. Not very neat - but very clever, Alex.

[Crungy]

Nice video! I'm shocked that this supreme bit of cinema ownage was kept in by the nutters. Some observations.

When is Alex Jones gonna find his true calling as a televangalist in Tupelo?

When will the lil' fella who punctuates his barks with "Bahbeeeee!" get his first kiss?

Does the one whom everyone refers to as 'Bermas' believe that the movie Quest For Fire was set in the future?

Does the cute chick know that smoking is bad for her health?

How about this strange coincedence. The guy from the gas company is at my house, and having problems with the aniquated meter. He interupted me while I was watching this video and said, "When I came over here, I thought this job was gonna be gravy....."

[MarkyX]

Need to think of a name...

[Bell]

Potatoos and Gravy :D

[WildCat]

Gravy pwns Alex Jones.

I can't believe they left that in there, somebody save that video before LTW "pulls" it!

[WildCat]

When is Alex Jones gonna find his true calling as a televangalist in Tupelo?
I had that exact thought! Well, a televangelist, not necessarily Tupelo.

[MarkyX]

Gravy pwns Alex Jones.

I can't believe they left that in there, somebody save that video before LTW "pulls" it!

Already done.

I'm trying to contact the voice actor of the Moose Change video. I really want that professor-sounding voice :)

[JamesB]

Geez, Alez Jones lies a lot. "The dean if the defense language school said they had to train hijackers"

No, it was not the dean, he did not say that, and it isn't even called the defense language school. That is three lies in one sentence.

And what where they teaching them there anyway, Korean, Mandarin Chinese?

[Brainster]

Okay, now I see a little better why Gravy seems so confident. You really did tie Jones into knots. Did anybody else catch the point at about 30:36 where Jones says about the fire chief that "he told to pull them"? "Pull" them?

[Bell]

Okay, now I see a little better why Gravy seems so confident. You really did tie Jones into knots. Did anybody else catch the point at about 30:36 where Jones says about the fire chief that "he told to pull them"? "Pull" them?

Yes. To bad Gravy didn't pin Jones on that one, asking Jones what he meant by pulling them.

MarkyX, this bit should be highlighted in your new video! :)

[G-K-4]

Yes. To bad Gravy didn't pin Jones on that one, asking Jones what he meant by pulling them.

MarkyX, this bit should be highlighted in your new video! :)
And this sentence should be played twice. Once as natural; a second time with subtitles to really drive it home.

If the CTers can make hay with what Silverstein said, we can make hay with what Jones admitted in public and on camera for the entire internet to see.

[JamesB]

I missed that good catch!

Did that "witness" really say he saw building 6 collapse on 9/11? I thought it was "pulled" down months later.

[ImaginalDisc]

Nice work Gravy!

Incidentally, is that Alex Jones guy the same nutball who had a cameo in "A Scanner Darkly?" If so, I can see why they borught him in to play a role as a crazy conspiricist.

[bob_kark]

Nice work Gravy!

Incidentally, is that Alex Jones guy the same nutball who had a cameo in "A Scanner Darkly?" If so, I can see why they borught him in to play a role as a crazy conspiricist.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405296/fullcredits

Alex Jones .... Arrested Protester

[Anti-sophist]

Some of my favorite highlights and comments...

"There's no point in even talking to him.. it's all strawmen" (31:42), he says, as you are explictly dealing with the comment that the structure fell in 6.5s. You are specifically contradicting a specific fact that was _just_ mentioned, and you were accused of using a strawmen. Oh lord.

"Hey folks! How many of you know 9/11 was an inside job?" (33:28)
I'd just like to point when he looks to his "audience" for support he is commiting an atrocious fallacy. He is appealing to his crowd.. it's sophistry (by the technical definition).

If you watch his eyes, when he talks, you will see he's almost never ooking _at_ you and talking _to_ you. He's looking at _them_ talking _about_ you. ("I guess there wasn't even poisonous dust, like they said" (30:10), or again at about 33:10, where he goes off on a 30 second monologue) This is incredibly common amongst bad debaters. This is why they need to segregate "critics" to "corners". They need their groupthink reinforcement to keep believing the things they believe. They find their truth in being part of a group that believes like they believe.

---

"Just because we don't have all the details, doesn't mean we are .....wrong" -Some dude in the crowd around (32:40)

Isn't that a bizarre statement from a conspiracy theorist? Don't they walk up to random people and bombard them with a million details.. that an average passerby has no chance of being able to counter? And when the passerby doesn't believe them, on those very same grounds, don't they basically attack them and their ignorance? Isn't it ironic, when it happens to them, they use the same excuse that they accost innocent passer-bys with?

--

"I'm a tour guide, I'm not a lawyer"
...
"No I said you are using lawyer tactics..."
"Yea.. facts..." (32:25).

Haha.
--

Here's my favorite line:
"Why did GARBLE GARBLE fall in 6.5 seconds?"
"Guess what? It didn't, chief." (31:25)

I don't know why, but you spinning to a random shark in the crowd and calling him chief is funny. That made me laugh.

[geni]

Nice work Gravy!

Incidentally, is that Alex Jones guy the same nutball who had a cameo in "A Scanner Darkly?" If so, I can see why they borught him in to play a role as a crazy conspiricist.

Yes he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_jones (includes pic)

[Moochie]

Well, I am not convinced you-all ain't part of the conspiracy... :D

M.

[Abbyas]

And this is the stuff that they thought was flattering (to them) enough to leave in.

You can imagine what they cut out.

[R.Mackey]

Alex Jones, I presume: "I never tried to be a space captain, you known, people are just made to be space captains. Evil space captains." (15:38)

William Shatner complex?? Wow!

[Raphael]

Gravy- you're a better man than I. Way to keep your cool.

Gravy - "Ranting just doesn't do it"
AJ - " Oh it's doin' it!"

[R.Mackey]

Alex Jones again, 27:20, speaking to Gravy: "Hey I'm not going to address the enemy, I'm gonna let you know you lost. I'm just telling you, you have been defeated!"

Yep, definitely William Shatner complex. The only thing missing is calling Gravy a Klingon.

The musical lead-in was pretty funny, too.

[Oliver]

Alex Jones again, 27:20, speaking to Gravy: "Hey I'm not going to address the enemy, I'm gonna let you know you lost. I'm just telling you, you have been defeated!"

Yep, definitely William Shatner complex. The only thing missing is calling Gravy a Klingon.

The musical lead-in was pretty funny, too.

Please could everyone in here stop talking about music and musicals in relation to 9/11 - otherwise i will never be able to get rid of this song... :boggled:

[R.Mackey]

Edit: 40 minutes in, Jason Bermas tells me that the firefighters were paid off.

Just saw that, 40:35. Good job on that. It pretty much nails shut Alex Jones's complaint, earlier in the same video, that they didn't blame the firefighters.

I can only imagine what MarkyX could do with this footage.

ETA: I just love the look on that woman's face, screen left, while Jason calls Gravy a blankety-blank punk and then lays into you... I can't believe these guys are proud of this behavior.

[Moochie]

9/11 the Musical?

M.

[MarkyX]

Just saw that, 40:35. Good job on that. It pretty much nails shut Alex Jones's complaint, earlier in the same video, that they didn't blame the firefighters.

I can only imagine what MarkyX could do with this footage.

ETA: I just love the look on that woman's face, screen left, while Jason calls Gravy a blankety-blank punk and then lays into you... I can't believe these guys are proud of this behavior.

I plan on mocking the **** out of it. Alas, I need a funny voice actor (*fingers crossed on the Moose Change guy*).

Just don't take this as a confirmation though. It's just an idea that popped into my head. I'm sick of trying to refute them with facts since they don't listen, so the next method is to laugh their behavior.

[Moochie]

Been doing that all along, MarkyX/Gravy. Why haven't you?

M.

ETA: P.S. Not that I mind -- you've provided us with as much entertainment as any sitcom on TV. :)

[Moochie]

One thing I like about the Troothers is the way they're destabilizing mainstream media.

One doesn't have to buy their alternate universe to appreciate that.

M.

[Moochie]

Did anyone else think Alex Jones looks like John Goodman?

M.

[Moochie]

Question: Does a "beauty wart" add to one's credibility?

M.

[Moochie]

Clarification: I live in Australia, and as far as I know there is no 9/11 Truth Movement here -- yet.

Meanwhile, we have all this delicious stuff coming from the states. What are we supposed to think?

Bulltwang bulltwang bulltwang, that's what :)

M.

[jhunter1163]

[QUOTE=R.Mackey;1964317]Just saw that, 40:35. Good job on that. It pretty much nails shut Alex Jones's complaint, earlier in the same video, that they didn't blame the firefighters. /QUOTE]

Another self-BOHICA moment for LTW.

*BOHICA = Bend Over, Here It Comes Again

[Gravy]

Does the one whom everyone refers to as 'Bermas' believe that the movie Quest For Fire was set in the future?
:dl:


How about this strange coincedence. The guy from the gas company is at my house, and having problems with the aniquated meter. He interupted me while I was watching this video and said, "When I came over here, I thought this job was gonna be gravy....."It's a good thing you didnt' say anything. Since we're all Gravy, he could have followed orders and killed you.

[Gravy]

Okay, now I see a little better why Gravy seems so confident. You really did tie Jones into knots. Did anybody else catch the point at about 30:36 where Jones says about the fire chief that "he told to pull them"? "Pull" them? I did. :D

[Hawkeye]

That’s who investigated it, professionals. Not people who can Google a bit and get all excited. Professionals.
I can't think of a better description of the 9/11 “truth movement.”

So, is that debate ever going to happen? The impression I got from the video was that it was rather difficult to have an intelligent discussion with anyone when a dozen of Alex Jones’ lackeys are constantly yelling at you. I would really love to an organized, point by point, controlled debate with a mutually agreed upon moderator.

[Moochie]

Who's the babe with the ciggie? Anyone we know? I think I'm in love :)

M.

[Crungy]

How about this strange coincedence. The guy from the gas company is at my house, and having problems with the antiquated meter. He interupted me while I was watching this video and said, "When I came over here, I thought this job was gonna be gravy....."

:dl:


It's a good thing you didnt' say anything. Since we're all Gravy, he could have followed orders and killed you.

Here's another one for ya. In junior high, I wrote a book report on Franklin Pierce. Cue spooky theremin music.

[Moochie]

Now I'm starting to worry :(

M.

[Abbyas]

Who's the babe with the ciggie? Anyone we know? I think I'm in love

M.

I am extremely embarrassed to have that on tape. For any relatives that may see that: Only in times of extreme stress! RealityBites made me! Peer Pressure, I swear.

[Moochie]

Edit: 40 minutes in, Jason Bermas tells me that the firefighters were paid off.

I think he's been to acting class -- get a load of the two-fingers across eyes routine.

M.

[thinkingcat]

I am extremely embarrassed to have that on tape. For any relatives that may see that: Only in times of extreme stress! RealityBites made me! Peer Pressure, I swear.

Well, just tell RealityBites to stop being such a bad influence on your health.

Otherwise, keep up the good work. Critical thinking is in such short supply in the world.

[Alareth]

My farorite part is the "Mark Roberts - Can debunk your entire existance" caption.

[Brainster]

I am extremely embarrassed to have that on tape. For any relatives that may see that: Only in times of extreme stress! RealityBites made me! Peer Pressure, I swear.

You handled Bermas very well--impressive job!

[VespaGuy]

My favorite part so far... watching Bermas badger a woman to please, please, please, take one of his DVDs. It almost looked like a lame attempt at flirtation. The topper was when she finally agreed to take it and Bermas whips out his business card. Is it possible to take anyone seriously who uses a velcro wallet (10:50)?!

I take pleasure in the little things.

[Gravy]

Is it possible to take anyone seriously who uses a velcro wallet (10:50)?!
Careful there.

[VespaGuy]

Sorry, Gravy.

If it's any consolation, I just watched the part of the video where you 'debated' Jones. Not only did you make him look like an idiot, you did it all while dealing with a throng of others pelting you with idiocy.

If you've got yourself a velcro wallet, I'll suggest trading up to a nice leather one that says "Bad Mother [rule8]"

Keep up the good work.

[Abbyas]

Well, just tell RealityBites to stop being such a bad influence on your health.

Otherwise, keep up the good work. Critical thinking is in such short supply in the world.

Hi, Mom. Sorry, Mom.

[chran]

I plan on mocking the **** out of it. Alas, I need a funny voice actor (*fingers crossed on the Moose Change guy*).

Just don't take this as a confirmation though. It's just an idea that popped into my head. I'm sick of trying to refute them with facts since they don't listen, so the next method is to laugh their behavior. Abby had some pretty funny line readings in her "Conspiracy Wars"-video. :D

[LashL]

Wow~ what an amazing job at making Alex Jones look like the crazed fool that he is. I've actually been transcribing that part of the video so it's taken me a while to get through it, and I'm just now getting to the Bermas bit, but I had to pause to come in and say WOW. Incredible job, Mark.

You know you've won when your opponent can't even address you but instead has to preach to his sycophants. You totally, thoroughly, and utterly trashed him.

And his body language - how telling. At times jumping up and down like a school girl; at times, with fists clenched; at times, poking his fingers on your binder; at times, making a series of ill-timed and very strange "scare quotes" with his fingers in the air; nervously toying with his sunglasses incessantly.

Talk about PWNED!

[firecoins]

Clarification: I live in Australia, and as far as I know there is no 9/11 Truth Movement here -- yet.

M.

Just find out where there is the most Anti-American feelings and you'll find the Aussie Truth movement.

[LashL]

Abby,

Nice work with Bermas. Especially getting him to say on tape that the firefighters were paid off. That is going to leave a mark.

It is so obvious when one watches videos like these that the skeptics are calm, fact based, evidence based, and reality based while the deniers are ranting fools who cannot, and will not, support their claims with facts or evidence.

Anyone can see the contrast between Gravy's calm, fact-based and evidence-based demeanor vs. Jones' foaming and ranting like a lunatic, and can see the contrast between your calm demeanor vs. Bermas' ranting and raving, and draw the obvious conclusion: 911 deniers are paranoid conspiracy theory believers who cannot support their ranting with facts or evidence.

Well done, indeed.

[Muckar-duva]

The very line "they were paid off" in reference to the firefighters (and now, alt-tabbing, I just hear "cavemen" something or other, another fine, researched argument) is, again (for me at least) addressing the issue of: Why? What would the government gain (which couldn't be accomplished in an easier way which would have made international support last longer) by pulling a 9/11 conspiracy?

More pressing, again, is the strangeness of all the people involved (a tiring thing, indeed). Lowly firemen, involved in the biggest government scam of the century? And yet nobody speaks up.

Oh, good show, little guys of LC. How very noble of you to tell the truth! I'm especially impressed by your diligence in discussing CURRENT US politics and the effects that these may have, internationally speaking- and your bleeding, caring hearts just make me melt inside. Melt- like a crappy, fake, steelinforced core that never even existed.

[Polaris]

I am soooo giong to do a bit of editing on this and slap the "good parts" together.

Make sure you include the part where Jones says the Army was going to shoot down American jumbo jets and blame Saddam.

[Polaris]

Need to think of a name...

Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them...wait, that sounds kinda familiar...

[Polaris]

I plan on mocking the **** out of it. Alas, I need a funny voice actor (*fingers crossed on the Moose Change guy*).

Just don't take this as a confirmation though. It's just an idea that popped into my head. I'm sick of trying to refute them with facts since they don't listen, so the next method is to laugh their behavior.

I'd do it - I don't have any professional experience but I have done acting before, and I do impressions and stuff. Too bad I'm in Dallas-Fort Worth.

[LashL]

What's even funnier is that early in that clip, there's Jones telling the sycophants how to "debate" by advising them, "Don’t answer their questions, answer your own questions. Don’t respond to their questions. Have your points in your head. Don’t ever respond. Respond by saying ‘that’s total baloney, that’s a lie, how dare you tell those lies, you oughtta be ashamed of yourself, prison planet dot com'”

What a complete and utter buffoon. Gravy just wiped the proverbial floor with him and I think that even some of the sycophants saw that, which is why his Jones' pathetic attempts to derail the discussion by appealing to the sycophants were met with little enthusiasm.

[Gravy]

Need to think of a name...
Journey to the Center of the Earth

Alex Jones: His Disciples Would Follow Him Anywhere, But Only Out of Curiosity

Chanting "Pull it," 9/11 Deniers JAQ Off, Bukakke Ground Zero with Stupid

Screw New York's Bravest

[Gravy]

I plan on mocking the **** out of it. Alas, I need a funny voice actor (*fingers crossed on the Moose Change guy*).

We can get Abby to smoke a few packs, and she'll sound just like Alex Jones.

[Abbyas]

I plan on mocking the **** out of it. Alas, I need a funny voice actor (*fingers crossed on the Moose Change guy*).

Put an ad on new york or la craigslist. Tell them you can't pay, but will give them a copy. You'll get oodles of mp3 demos.

We can get Abby to smoke a few packs, and she'll sound just like Alex Jones.

I wouldn't know how. Hi, Mom!

[Crungy]

JFC! These idiots actually believe that Jones and company bitch slapped the gravy train.

Do to my noob status, me can't type in the full link......so please add the prefix below.

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357

[LashL]

Some of my fave quotes from the transcript of that vanity video re: the debate bewtween Mark and Jones:

Mark: Where’s your evidence?
Jones: Ohh, massive evidence, we have total evidence.


And then Jones fails to provide a single piece of evidence.

Regarding Building 7: BEAUTIFUL job – Jones didn’t have a clue. Mark had him sputtering and trying to come up with answers, and he simply could not come up with any coherent answers whatsoever.

Mark: They just followed orders to pull out?
AJ: Yes, they were ordered to pull out.


(Nice admission that the order to "pull" was to pull the firefighters out - oops!)

Mark: They didn’t give the orders, they followed the orders? You’re saying the fire department did not give the order to pull out?
AJ: No, they were given an order and then they gave the order
Mark: By whom? By whom?
AJ: Oh, it’s admitted by the Port Authority, that’s (pause) Guiliani.
Mark: Who admitted it?
AJ: (pause) Uh, I’ve got the newspaper article.
Mark: No you don’t. See, look at his hesitation. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. You’re lying to people at Ground Zero.

- at this point, Jones could no longer even try to address Mark because he realized that he could not counter Mark's facts and evidence, and because Jones knew he had been caught in his own ineptitude and lies, so from here on, he addressed the sycophants in the guise of pretending to respond to Mark - priceless.

AJ: (addressing the sycophants) See, all he does is sit there and act confident…

Mark: I’m asking you for the facts. I’m asking you where your facts are. Where are they? You say an order was given. Who gave it? Tell me. Give me the name right now, with the cameras here.
AJ: See, this is how the spin works. This is a lawyer technique.

AJ: I’m saying you’re using a lawyer, a lawyer tactic.
Mark: Yeah. Fact. We need facts. We need evidence. That’s a tactic? How about that?

Mark: Did you? Yes or no?
AJ: (Totally incapable of getting out of the corner he’s painted himself into, and not having a clue about how to even attempt it, addressing the sycophants) Hey folks, how many of you know 9/11’s an inside job?
Sycophants: small – very small - smattering of mindless yeahs
AJ: (with a smarmy grin) That’s right, it’s an inside job, brother.


I'm still grinning about how thoroughly you exposed him as the liar and fraud that he is, Mark. Kudos again.

[qarnos]

JFC! These idiots actually believe that Jones and company bitch slapped the gravy train.

Do to my noob status, me can't type in the full link......so please add the prefix below.

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357

There ya go.

I haven't been following this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a 5-part vanity series... and one of the parts has 3 parts??!?!

Is that right? :confused:

[Project86]

It has already been mentioned once... but take a look at how many times Alex takes his sunglasses off and on. It's gotta be 15+ in the first 15 minutes. Also note the eye twitching/ticking action.

[Abbyas]

The best part is the neutral onlookers just laughing.

Not a whole heck of a lot of comments on that lc thread. Me thinks it wasn't the slam dunk Dylan thought it was. And actually one response includes a correction for the loosers of the Silverstein quote. Nice.

[Alareth]

JFC! These idiots actually believe that Jones and company bitch slapped the gravy train.

Do to my noob status, me can't type in the full link......so please add the prefix below.

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357

linkified (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357)

[Crungy]

The best part is the neutral onlookers just laughing.


From all of the videos of the ground zero 5 years anniversary that I've seen, it's a bit hard to gauge the sway factor for the neutral public onlookers. Did most of them dismiss them as the 21st century flat earthers, or did some stop and say, "You know I never knew that! Yes, please give me a DVD."

[shuize]

Yeah, the best part was watching Jones and his followers deny up and down that they ever claimed firefighters were in on it while Bermas, just feet away, tells Abby that firefighers were paid off ... on their own PR video.

Retarded.

[LashL]

Yeah, the best part was watching Jones and his followers deny up and down that they ever claimed firefighters were in on it while Bermas, just feet away, tells Abby that firefighers were paid off ... on their own PR video.

Retarded.

Indeed. The troofers have never been noted for their intelligence :)

[MarkyX]

linkified (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357)

Haha, at least one "looser" (he's been upgraded!) realizes that Alex Jones messed up.

Saying that Chief Daniel Nigro gave the order for a collapse zone isn't a "strawman" argument, it's fact. There are many interviews and transcripts from the fire fighters at WTC7 all pointing to the same story.

Stating the WTC7 having it's penthouse collapse isn't "spin", it's fact. Yes, the building fell down quite fast when the global collapse came. However, the penthouse did also fall down before and was rumbling before then. Look at the seismic readings of the WTC7: It's impossible to have a controlled demolition work in that way without giving off signs. So while the global collapse fell quickly when it started, the entire collapse was around 18 seconds because the building was falling apart way before the initial start of the global collapse.

Of course, the 9/11 Deniers don't talk about the penthouse, which is part of the collapse. Facts and evidence are "strawman arguments" and "spin" to Alex Jones.

[MarkyX]

Loose Change boards

He claims he doesn't like George Bush but then agrees with the governments official story. How can anyone trust government when they lie to us on a daily basis?


Because Mark Roberts understands the difference between Science and Politics. 9/11 Deniers mix the two together.

EDIT: Whoops, I made a mistake. They don't use Science at all!

[NickUK]

Someone should point out to the LC forums the sickening hypocrisy of the long lingering shot of the sculpture featuring FDNY at the beginning of LTW's vanityflick, and then Bermas accusing the same firefighters of being paid off in the same film. Might do it myself actually.

It's as stupid as it is insulting. It's no wonder FDNY members get p***ed off with them at Ground Zero.

[Alareth]

Of course, the 9/11 Deniers don't talk about the penthouse, which is part of the collapse. Facts and evidence are "strawman arguments" and "spin" to Alex Jones.

Because there are no facts that can withstand the blinding holy light of "Truth"

[60hzxtl]

The jokers have no clue that they are destroyed by Gravy; all they see is their own image on the screen and think they are winning.

[The Mad Hatter]

Who's the short guy with the squeeky voice who keeps trying to interject?

I watched the video last night, and I think he was in my dream - after agreeing to disagree, he and I went out for tea.

[Alareth]

Who's the short guy with the squeeky voice who keeps trying to interject?

I watched the video last night, and I think he was in my dream - after agreeing to disagree, he and I went out for tea.

How was the unbirthday celebration?

[The Mad Hatter]

How was the unbirthday celebration?

Surprisingly civil, for the most part, until he started "just asking questions."

"Why did they live at the bottom of a well?" "Where did they draw the treacle from?"

[brodski]

Because Mark Roberts understands the difference between Science and Politics. 9/11 Deniers mix the two together.

EDIT: Whoops, I made a mistake. They don't use Science at all!

Also, the troofers don't seem to be able to differentiate between government, and the current administration. Just because NIST is state funded, it doesn't mean it takes orders from GWB.

[Redtail]

They really think they "won" that exchange...

[Gravy]

Who's the short guy with the squeeky voice who keeps trying to interject?

I watched the video last night, and I think he was in my dream - after agreeing to disagree, he and I went out for tea.
That's Tom Foti, who's at Ground Zero every Saturday. He's the biggest creep I've ever met. The camera caught the end of an exchange where Tom again questions that I'm a tour guide, even though I had previously shown him my license. So he decided to quiz me on NYC architecture, in front of the cameras. That was a mistake. Not only am I a tour guide, I had the highest score in history on the qualification exam, and I teach a class to train tour guides. After I answered Tom's question and chided him for quizzing me, he said, "um, um, okay, that was an easy one. I'll come up with a better one." I'll write about him on 9/11 when I can do so without blowing a gasket.

[Redtail]

I am extremely embarrassed to have that on tape. For any relatives that may see that: Only in times of extreme stress! RealityBites made me! Peer Pressure, I swear.

Subliminal on: {Smooooooke} Subliminal off:
Sorry, I'm from NC and I had a lot of state scholarships. Thank you for my education.

[VespaGuy]

That's Tom Foti, who's at Ground Zero every Saturday. He's the biggest creep I've ever met.

Is this the guy who ends every sentence with "baby"?

[Pardalis]

I just looked at it. Gravy, I don't know how you do it, what a colossal effort it must be to keep your cool in front of that madman. I'm trully amazed. I'm just looking at the video and I want to punch my computer screen.

btw, what is that creepy guy with sunglasses always calling you? Does he say 'baby' or 'gravy'?

ETA: what a bunch of idiots, they act like hyperactive kids, slapping their hands all the time and chanting their slogans. How pathetic.

[Anti-sophist]

That video makes me wish I lived in NYC. Pittsburgh is only, what, 7 hours away...

[Bell]

That video makes me wish I lived in NYC. Pittsburgh is only, what, 7 hours away...

About the same as the Netherlands... by plane :(

[hellaeon]

whats the deal with the sunnies, why the need to try and be the men in black?

Also, for someone who wondered about the Aussie truth movement, there are heaps of idiots who believe it here. I knew a few directly for a time and still do (within the music scene im involved in). They are the same in every way. loud and ignorant, spout 10 things at once, then shown wrong, their next smoking gun comes your way. I had a debate with one in a forum recently and he ended crapping on about all the illuminati stuff and secret transactions etc. There was so much I got tired reading it and just did not bother in the end. His last idea was to post the illuminati crap, knowing I dont frequent that forum that much, then accuse me of running away etc when I never went to the forum for a week after. How do you argue with these people in a constructive way? No matter what, they are just like psychics, counting the hits (if you could call them that) and just dismissing the misses.

Luckily in that particular forum, he is already a goose on many other things and not too many take him seriously.

[Gravy]

Is this the guy who ends every sentence with "baby"?That's him. He's a singer-songwriter, but I don't think he wrote the LIHOP MIHOP song. I have an audio recording of me telling him what I really think about him, but I can hardly listen to it myself, it's so harsh. http://tomfoti.com/

[hellaeon]

They actually are now amazing me. I cant believe how much crap can consistenly flow through them out their trapholes. This is a study in Behavioural science. Just consistently going on and on. That jones is just a preacher if ever. He should start a church.

Seriously how do you keep your cool.

[Gravy]

Seriously how do you keep your cool.
As Abby and realitybites know, sometimes I don't. But it would be playing Jones' game to try to outshout him. I do wish I had gotten in his face more and demanded that he answer questions, but if you had seen how many times he called camera operators over to film him, you'd understand why I was hesitant to draw more attention to him. I didn't know the Louder Than Words guys and camerapeople were there during that encounter, though. If I had known that, I would have had a few choice words for them. For 9/11, I printed out many quotes, so people didn't have to take my word. That was very effective.

[The Mad Hatter]

That's him. He's a singer-songwriter, but I don't think he wrote the LIHOP MIHOP song.

If only he used his singing voice when he yells at you. While his songs are generic and slightly out of tune, his voice is almost tolerable...

I have an audio recording of me telling him what I really think about him, but I can hardly listen to it myself, it's so harsh.

Now this I would love to hear! How'd he react?

[Abbyas]

Gravy, you gonna pursue that debate with these children? I know you are excited about Fetzer, but it's soooo far away.

[Gravy]

Gravy, you gonna pursue that debate with these children? I know you are excited about Fetzer, but it's soooo far away.
I am, after I get the new LC guide done. Seems like a good subject for an Abby/Ray mockumentary....

[shuize]

I don't know. Maybe it's the couple of beers I've had this evening. But I've been replaying the Bermas conversation with Abby in my mind.

How f*cking stupid do you have to be to believe that the firefighters at ground zero were in on the so-called conspiracy?

Putting aside for a moment the ones who died at the scene (and heros they were -- I just saw photos of the guys climbing the stairs again and started to tear up), what sort of idiot thinks that all the other firefighters would watch their brothers die in a planned demolition and not speak up because they were supposedly worried about their pensions? Not even one.

That is so f*cking retarded. I can't believe you guys can even stand to breathe the same air as those douche bags, much less try and debate them.

[stateofgrace]

Having watched Jones performance again, I am surprised they would wish to keep this in their video.
A while ago I did a study into bullies and the effects they have on people (nothing too deep, just a few problems with my kids at school)
Jones falls into one of these categories.
He came across as nothing other than a schoolyard bully.

Serial bullies fall into the following categories.

The Attention-Seeker
The Wannabe
The Guru
The Socialised Psychopath or Sociopath

looking at Jones performance and the way he shouted, screamed , avoided the question I would put him down as the Wannabe.

similar to the attention-seeker
is one of life's chronic underperformers and is best described as ineffectual in everything
craves undeserved respect and attention and will go to considerable lengths to acquire them
hangs around the fringes of a profession
not professionally qualified but claims they are a professional because they sit next to a professional or work alongside or near or in the midst of professionals, or provide services to professionals
lacks the ability, competence and professionalism to be a qualified professional
wants so much to be seen as competent professional person but is unable and unwilling to put in the work to achieve this
is unable and unwilling to apply knowledge gained from experience but instead devotes time and effort to improving skills of deception, manipulation, false claim, denial and projection
may have been rejected by their chosen profession for lack of competence
is spiteful towards and despises anyone who is qualified in the profession from which the bully has been excluded by virtue of lack of competence
is likely to be vilifying the profession they want to belong to or which they're claiming to be part of or which they are claiming to represent
displays a deep-seated envy and jealousy of the professionals that he or she works alongside or claims to serve
harbours a bitter resentment, grudge, distaste and contempt for the professionals that he or she works alongside or claims to serve
is likely to be criticising, condemning, disadvantaging and causing detriment to the professionals he or she works alongside or claims to serve
may seek positions of power over the professionals he or she works alongside or claims to serve, perhaps to facilitate a compulsion to criticise, condemn, disadvantage and cause detriment
is irresistibly drawn to organisations, roles and positions which offer the wannabe power and control over the professionals s/he despises (eg inspection regimes, approval roles, regulatory bodies, ticksheet compliance schemes, political correctness police, trade union official, etc) - and is often described as a talentless jobsworth
when in a position of power associates with and makes alliances with or surrounds him or herself with clones, drones, minions, fellow wannabes, sycophants and brown-nosers
instinctively objects to any suggestion of change, reform, improvement, progress or evolution, but has no viable or positive alternatives of their own
opposes every idea, suggestion, opinion, contribution or reform on principle but has no original, positive, constructive ideas or contributions of his or her own
is likely to plagiarise and steal others' ideas which are then put forward as their own
may place undue emphasis or reliance on an old, minor or irrelevant qualification to bolster their claim of belonging to or deserving to belong to a profession
may claim ambiguous or misleading or bogus or fraudulent qualifications, associations and experience
displays a superior sense of entitlement because they associate with or serve higher performers
emotionally immature
controlling
easily provoked
when challenged is adept at rewriting history to portray themselves as competent, professional and successful, regardless of multiple witnesses and overwhelming evidence to the contrary
quickly and loudly feigns victimhood when exposed and held accountable, often repeatedly and loudly accusing the person holding them accountable of being a bully
when held accountable makes conflicting and contradictory threats and demands (eg demands apology but orders the other person not to communicate with them)
when held accountable makes lots of loud but empty threats (eg of legal action such as libel, slander, defamation etc)
only carries out threats of legal action when in the presence of a superior serial bully, especially a sociopath (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Sociopath) type
may indulge their jealousy and envy of professionals or those they claim to serve by pursuing vindictive vendettas, sometimes with the help of a superior serial bully, especially a sociopath (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Sociopath) type
is easily manipulated and controlled by a superior serial bully
female wannabes may be arch bullies (some people might call them puppetmasters or queen bees)
may surround herself with drones of the opposite sex
may exploit some perceived vulnerability in self to ensure drone loyalty
gives the appearance of loyalty to drones but will discard them when they've served their purpose
is likely to have affairs to gain power, status or positionWow all that from a twenty minute clip of the guy.

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully....htm#Attention (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully....htm#Attention)

Maybe it's just me. Maybe because I don't like bullies, I don't like these deniers and I don't like the nonsense they try to sell. But Jones did nothing to promote this movement; he looked foolish, childish and came across as bully.

He really has shown me the mentality behind the leaders of this movement. Those being one of simply "shout it", keep shouting it and hope more loonies listen. The fact that what they are shouting is nonsense in the first place apparently means nothing. Nor does the fact that nobody but the gullible believe what they are saying.

[Moochie]

I am extremely embarrassed to have that on tape. For any relatives that may see that: Only in times of extreme stress! RealityBites made me! Peer Pressure, I swear.


:) I figure it's tough enough confronting these folks as it is. No need to be embarrassed, IMHO. After all, who knows what they're on?

Big hug,

M.

[negativ]

I have an audio recording of me telling him what I really think about him, but I can hardly listen to it myself, it's so harsh.

Oh, DO please make this available. I suspect it's quite entertaining, and useful in a wide variety of situations completely unrelated to the original context.

[Moochie]

Just find out where there is the most Anti-American feelings and you'll find the Aussie Truth movement.

There isn't any really rabid anti-American feeling here. The folks who are aware of our relationship with the States tend to have a love/hate relationship. Many think we're too cozy with Mr. Bush's foreign policy, while others would like to become another state of the States. :)

My personal feeling is that our relationship is important, but not "Iraq" important.

FWIW, I felt the same way about Vietnam.

M.

[Muckar-duva]

According to the truthers, it's impossible to to believe the official 9/11 story AND criticize Bush and the US current politics. I find that very strange, but maybe that's just me. I should probably sit down and wait for my huge check from the US government for being such a dedicated shill.

[Moochie]

I believe the "Troothers" to be on Planet X.

M.

[MikeW]

Good work, Gravy! There was one moment when I really wished I was there, though, as someone in the crowd demanded that you "debunk W199-eye". Because Alex Jones is one of those people who pretends that it's a document George Bush signed to take FBI agents off the bin Ladins, when actually it's an FBI case number from 1996 and has nothing to do with Bush at all (see http://files.meetup.com/206829/911%20-%20Descent%20into%20Tyranny%20-%20By%20Alex%20Jones.pdf and search for "eye" to see where he gets it wrong). So I'd have loved to see him try to "debate" that one with you...

[I'll_buy_that]

so, yelling and posturing is argument? 'I WON, YOU LOSE!'

[CurtC]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357&view=findpost&p=7500059
I observed that Roberts was on much shakier ground when it came to issues like the hijackers than on aspects of physical evidence. This is what I expected, because from what I have seen any evidence which requires "joining the dots" type thinking, he appears to be very poor at.
Mark, he's got you. You are not good at jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions.

[chipmunk stew]

Just watching now. I have to pause before you get into it though, Gravy, because I'm cracking up at the music clip Dylan put in just before you laid the smack down. The voice-over on the music clip is from some sitcom or something and says:

Kid: ...this big 8th grader, and he's a real jerk!

Mom: Is there something Mrs. Cooper should know about this 8th grader? ...Does he take drugs, or something?

Kid: No...

Mom: Well, what is it then?

Kid: Well it's just that he's this 8th grader and he thinks he's so cool and...

:dl:

[Horatius]

From that same thread:

I don't remember him resorting to any strawmam tactics. He did come across poorly, though. When you're debating a liar like that Mark guy, you don't want to get into a shouting match because it causes confusion. Liars love to cause confusion because it makes it harder for people to catch them lying. It also makes it harder for people to figure out what the hell is actually true. Ask tough enough questions and a liar will expose himself.

I think I've finally figured out why the LC film convinces so many of these guys. The fact that they can look at this video, and accuse Gravy of doing what Alex Jones is actually doing, just shows that they honestly can't see the truth in front of their eyes. This is just one example, there were others in that thread as well, where they somehow managed to completely reverse who was doing what.

I don't know what brain malfunction leads to this phenomenon, but I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's just nothing else I can imagine that can explain such utter blindness...Any neuroscientists out there looking for a thesis to work on?

[stateofgrace]

WTF is wrong with these people?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15707

[chipmunk stew]

Nicely done, Mark! It's great to finally see you at work.

You big, mean 8th grader.

[Moochie]

Hey, Horatius, it's all theater, don'tcha know?

M.

[Horatius]

WTF is wrong with these people?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15707

She's just one of those people who enjoy hearing themselves speak

See what I mean? How can anyone watch their video, and come to this conclusion about Abby? !!!

ETA: Oh damn, multiple exclamation points, they must be getting to me!

[Horatius]

Hey, Horatius, it's all theater, don'tcha know?

M.

And bad theatre at that!

[chipmunk stew]

And Abby, excellent job keeping your cool and trying to keep Jason on topic. I didn't see you giving him any reason to get all worked up like he was. Maybe he was just frustrated that you were hanging with that punk with all his facts and evidence and whatnot.

[Bell]

WTF is wrong with these people?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15707

What the hell?

That's pathetic. :mad: But to be expected, alas, after that last bashing of her after she uploaded her own video.

[Brainster]

This time Dylan didn't have time to cull out all the useless junk, so we get an hour and three-quarters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7009170953577304119&hl=en) of the Loosers walking around New York City. I've only watched the first five minutes or so, but Alex Jones claims "Even our debunkers have groupies now!" He also harangues some soldiers in a restaurant, to the point where they get up and walk out; Jones follows them for a block or two muttering about the evidence and complaining about the military-industrial complex. Dylan orders chicken pot pie. There's also a hilarious exchange between Bermas and a bemused young oriental man who asks, "Wait a minute--I don't understand. You've already investigated and now you want us to investigate?"

[chipmunk stew]

Are there any proxy servers that still work over there? I can't seem to get in with Ninja Proxy or Unipeak.

[MarkyX]

Hey guys, I just contacted the voice actor of the "Moose Change" and...well, I might actually make a mockumentary out of this.

[CurtC]

Gravy,

Where did the 18 second figure come from for WTC7? I can see about one for the collapse of the East mechanical penthouse, then a delay of about six seconds, then approximately 7 for the collapse of the overall structure. So I could see 14 - am I missing something?

[Gravy]

Oh, DO please make this available. I suspect it's quite entertaining, and useful in a wide variety of situations completely unrelated to the original context.
If you've seen the movie "A Christmas Story," the line "My father wove a tapestry of profanity which to this day is still hovering somewhere over Lake Michigan" sorta says it all.

[Gravy]

Gravy,

Where did the 18 second figure come from for WTC7? I can see about one for the collapse of the East mechanical penthouse, then a delay of about six seconds, then approximately 7 for the collapse of the overall structure. So I could see 14 - am I missing something?
You're missing a real strawman argument in effect. My figure is 13.5+ seconds, based on what I can see in the videos. 18 seconds is the duration of the seismic rumbling that the LDEO recorded. This could indicate internal collapses before the visible collapse is apparent, but even they say this shouldn't be used as anything conclusive.

[Gravy]

Good work, Gravy! There was one moment when I really wished I was there, though, as someone in the crowd demanded that you "debunk W199-eye". Because Alex Jones is one of those people who pretends that it's a document George Bush signed to take FBI agents off the bin Ladins, when actually it's an FBI case number from 1996 and has nothing to do with Bush at all (see http://files.meetup.com/206829/911%20-%20Descent%20into%20Tyranny%20-%20By%20Alex%20Jones.pdf and search for "eye" to see where he gets it wrong). So I'd have loved to see him try to "debate" that one with you...
Oh, believe me, I would have been delighted if you were there! Woo-hoo! All I got to say about the 1199 was to check the numbers: that it wasn't an executive order. I don't like giving partial answers. I was trying to focus on Jones, which the gnats made difficult. The flyer I was handing out lists 911myths.com as the first place to go for accurate info.

[VBU2C5]

Gravy I can understand you not wanting to post your profanity laced tirade, you were very impressive in maintaining your cool in the face of lunacy.
( still it would probably be fun to hear )

I love the part where you finally see Bermas face to face, not quite so cocky as before huh?

I still believe that on the PM's debate with Avery and Bermas, Avery shows that he knows that LC still is what it started out to be, a fictionalized account of the 9/11 events, he always leaves himself and out, he'll say when confronted with cold hard facts, " we don't have all the answers, we just want people to ask questions " I think he knows his 15 minutes of fame are ticking down.

Bermas on the other hand, well I actually think he believes there is a conspiracy, he also strikes me as a bully. ( except when he's around Gravy! ) I don't want to post anything too controversial, but Bermas scares me a bit, isn't he former military? Oh well, just be careful while in the trenches guys and gals, they (LC people) are all beginning to become frustrated and testy. Being wrong all the time has that effect on people.

[c0rbin]

Did anyone else think Alex Jones looks like John Goodman?

M.


Nope. Not me. When I look at him I see Mark Holton known affectionatley as Francis from Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure.

A little more pointedly as Gacy in the movie Gacy.

This poster is creepy:

http://www.filteringcraig.com/images/francis.jpg

But this one is creepier!

http://img.clubic.com/photo/00115556.jpg

[Bell]

<snip>

but Bermas scares me a bit, isn't he former military?

<snap>

Nope, that's Korey Rowe, who alledgely was with the 101st.

[Abbyas]

WTF is wrong with these people?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...howtopic=15707

Love it.

[Bell]

Love it.

Yeah right...

It's like John Moss (James Woods) giving his review on the party crasher on tv in The Hard Way. I just can imagine Abby sitting in front of her computer, wearing a face mask and making gum bubbles, totally flipping out. "From me too you! From me too you! FROM ME TOO YOU!!! :D

[Redtail]

Nope, that's Korey Rowe, who alledgely was with the 101st.

Does he go into depth about that? I mean just because one was at 101st doesn't mean he was in any kind of combat arms.

[Bell]

Does he go into depth about that? I mean just because one was at 101st doesn't mean he was in any kind of combat arms.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/korey-rowe-supports-threatening.html

There's a bit at the end of that blog entry, which I found when I Googled to verify my post.

[VBU2C5]

Rowe, that's right, thanks Bell. Regardless if Rowe was in combat, I have been seeing more and more talk of revolt or revolution on the LC forum, although to their credit the moderators discourage it. See, you can post about revolution and get warned, but don't give facts and truth or you will be banned!

[Redtail]

AH, Well if he actually was in Rakkasans then he MAY have been INF but still he could also have been a cook or in supply (nothing wrong with that but a foxhole in a large base is a helluva lot different from patrols and constant contact with the enemy.) Also, as someone over there caught, he lied about being in the initial invasion of Afghanistan that leads me to think he's a wannabe.

[JamesB]

AH, Well if he actually was in Rakkasans then he MAY have been INF but still he could also have been a cook or in supply (nothing wrong with that but a foxhole in a large base is a helluva lot different from patrols and constant contact with the enemy.) Also, as someone over there caught, he lied about being in the initial invasion of Afghanistan that leads me to think he's a wannabe.

If I remember right he was an RTO 11B. That is radio telephone operator infantryman, for you non-military types. He said he just pulled guard duty in Afghanistan (which for the time was pretty much par for the course for that time period unless you were SF) but has some more lurid stories from Iraq. While he might exaggerate a bit, I have seen nothing to suggest that he is lying about his service. Not to Lauro Chavez standards certainly.

[CurtC]

Love it.
They seem to go on and on about your use of Paxil. Last month, I heard a very interesting story (I heard the podcast) on Slate, called Extroverted Like Me. I suspect it will be interesting to any people who have taken Paxil or are considering it. Links:

MP3 podcast (http://media.slate.com/podcast/Slate060628_Paxil.mp3)

Same article in a web page (http://www.slate.com/id/2143243/)

[Redtail]

If I remember right he was an RTO 11B. That is radio telephone operator infantryman, for you non-military types. He said he just pulled guard duty in Afghanistan (which for the time was pretty much par for the course for that time period unless you were SF) but has some more lurid stories from Iraq. While he might exaggerate a bit, I have seen nothing to suggest that he is lying about his service. Not to Lauro Chavez standards certainly.

Oh I didn't mean to imply he was lying about his service. Just that he was hyping himself up to be CPT Hooahh! when he was just another Leg.

Edit: "CPT Hooahh" means Rambo-esque soldier and "leg" means anyone who doesn't jump out of a plane. I really need to stop using that term.

[MikeW]

All I got to say about the 1199 was to check the numbers: that it wasn't an executive order. I don't like giving partial answers. I was trying to focus on Jones, which the gnats made difficult.
Sure, I wasn't criticising -- you did a great job. And it's interesting to see how little Jones had. A few showman tricks, bluster, a little playing to the crowd, but that's about it. No real answers to anything.

[Muckar-duva]

I believe the "Troothers" to be on Planet X.

M.


Oh, no. I think they're a figment of our imagination.

[Bell]

MarkyX, do you, or anyone you know, have experience with animation?

[G-K-4]

Considering that the Loosers are criticising some of our stars, maybe it's time we generated some positive Hollywood buzz. I can see it now...

Coming this summer, to a theater near you.

In a world...

Where facts are ignored and belief is reality...
Where words have no meaning...
Where lies travel at the speed of light...
One man and one woman stand against the darkness.

Starring Robert DeNiro...
http://images.charitybuzz.com/images/highlights/NYRP/robert_deniro_thumb.jpg
..."Yeah, facts!"

Reese Witherspoon...
http://www.primary.net/~gic/super/superg/r_witherspoon.jpg (http://www.primary.net/%7Egic/super/superg/r_witherspoon.jpg)
..."Gravity is an acceleration."

And introducing the Keebler Elf in his first film role...
http://forums.randi.org/customavatars/avatar9866_3.gif
..."New World Order, baby!"

in...

I Was a Debunker for the J.R.E.F.

With Mark Holton as Alex Jones...
http://www.movie-montage.com/images/upload/1057.jpg
..."Strawmen! Lies! Propaganda!"

Tony Danza as Tom Foti...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Tony_Danza-300x380.jpg
..."How about that, baby?"

...and Charlie Sheen as "Mister X".
http://www.760kfmb.com/rick_blog/imglib/charlie.jpg
..."It seems like the worm is turning."

Music by Lihop-Mihop and I Am the World Trade Center.

Your world will never be the same again.

[Bell]

I'm so gonna see that movie!

[Gravy]

I Was a Debunker for the J.R.E.F.

:D
Can we arrange for the premiere to be at the Oneonta Bijou?

[G-K-4]

:D
Can we arrange for the premiere to be at the Oneonta Bijou?
Only if I can go and have my picture taken with Reese and Abby.

[Brainache]

I see the Alex Jones character being played by Jim Belushi.

[Muckar-duva]

The topic does no longer exist at LC, by the way. Which lends some credit.


By the by, as I'm working in a building that will partially get demolished soonish: I should probably refuse to work, right, during those days? Because "falling in own footprint" means that several nearby buildings(and probably all of mine) will get damaged, and even though officials say that won't happen, we all know what a CD looks like.

[Bell]

The topic does no longer exist at LC, by the way. Which lends some credit.


By the by, as I'm working in a building that will partially get demolished soonish: I should probably refuse to work, right, during those days? Because "falling in own footprint" means that several nearby buildings(and probably all of mine) will get damaged, and even though officials say that won't happen, we all know what a CD looks like.

Don't be so sinical, Muckar-duva. Only if the building to be demolished is owned by a j000, you are in danger.

[Muckar-duva]

Don't be so sinical, Muckar-duva. Only if the building to be demolished is owned by a j000, you are in danger.

If a workmate of mine is one, I would probably be safe, no? IF she is actually scheduled to work those days...

[Bell]

If a workmate of mine is one, I would probably be safe, no? IF she is actually scheduled to work those days...

Yeah, stay very very close to her.
You know you want! :D

[Muckar-duva]

Yeah, stay very very close to her.
You know you want! :D

Well, she IS hot.

[Bell]

Well, she IS hot.

Offcourse she is. Most Jewish girls are :)

[Muckar-duva]

Offcourse she is. Most Jewish girls are :)

I never knew. We only keep one lifevest per workplace, you see.

[Bell]

I never knew. We only keep one lifevest per workplace, you see.

I'm affraid you missed me there :confused:

[Muckar-duva]

I'm affraid you missed me there :confused:

I never see the other Jewish women, as we're only assigned one per workplace.

(Only reason I'm even joking like this is because we've already been over how she's the reason the world suffers, and all other serious issues... but I still feel evil telling jokes about jews in her absence, as she's the basis for all of them... being the only assigned one to our station.)

[Bell]

Okay, gotcha.

But, as you say, she is hot, I hope you are the only man at the work station? ;)

(I only joke about this, because I figure the skeptics on here can see through the jokes. Also, I'm not joking about Jewish girls looking hot, they really do :blush: )

[mrfreeze]

You're not fooling anyone! You're just after her small bag of Jew gold!

[G-K-4]

I never see the other Jewish women, as we're only assigned one per workplace.
Maybe she is some sort of Lamed Vavnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamed_Wufnik)?
Or, if she listens to Ani Difranco, maybe that makes her a Righteous Babe (http://www.righteousbabe.com).

Or both!

[Brainster]

Getting back to the videos, I'd like to learn a little more about Luke. He appears many times in the 9/9 Loose Change video (better known as "We can't leave anything on the editing floor"), and at first I assumed he was one of the dorks that came with Dylan and company down to NYC from Oneonta. He's nothing impressive; if anything he seems a little dorkier and younger than Dylan, which is going some. But then during the segment at the church, it turns out that he's a big wheel in the NYC Truth Movement. He appears next to Dylan in the restaurant scene as Do-Over decides on the Chicken Pot Pie from about 1:04-1:14. But then Les Jamieson is show introducing him at 37:30 as Luke Luchowski (sp?) and there is some substantial applause from the Looser section and Luke proceeds to give a short introduction to someone else.

What's this all about? Are the Loosers just rewarding a NYC Denier who pushed their film?

There are some bits worth watching. From about 1:30 to 4:30, Alex Jones harasses some military people who made the mistake of eating at the same joint the Deniers have infested; remarkable mainly for the usual anti-military attitude and Jones' bizarre claims that the soldiers he harassed were from the Martial Law Officers for the FEMA camps. Wouldn't that have been ironic, if one of them had turned an arrested Jones on the spot, and wheeled out the Chinese guillotines? Unfortunately Jones survives to the applause of the Looser contingent.

There's a reasonable bit with a Debunker from about 27:45-37:19; he makes some decent points for our side. Anybody know him?

[60hzxtl]

Quote from Google Video: September 9th. We hit the pavement for spreading DVDs and truth at ground zero, . . . .
NOTE: Due to some audio mishaps, we are unable to use a majority of our footage from the speeches given by Craig Bartmer, Mike McCormick, Kevin McPadden, Donna Marsha O'Connor, Janet McKinley and Willie Rodriguez. End quote

I would say that the evidence is that the audio "mishap" is similar to the audio "mishap" on the Jarrah and Atta tape released over the weekend.

Could it just be a coincidence?

I'm just asking questions.

[MarkyX]

First three minutes of 9/11 Deniers Speak - Ground Zero Edition

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9H4QW7NX

Not sure if I will continue on with this or not.

[chipmunk stew]

I've only watched the first five minutes or so, but Alex Jones claims "Even our debunkers have groupies now!" He also harangues some soldiers in a restaurant, to the point where they get up and walk out; Jones follows them for a block or two muttering about the evidence and complaining about the military-industrial complex.
Just started watching this part.

If you had any doubts that Jones is a complete whackjob, this pretty much banishes them. "Hit 'em with the codes." :confused: "That's the martial law takeover arm...["Really?"] Yeah, FEMA..." :eye-poppi

[JamesB]

Just started watching this part.

If you had any doubts that Jones is a complete whackjob, this pretty much banishes them. "Hit 'em with the codes." :confused: "That's the martial law takeover arm...["Really?"] Yeah, FEMA..." :eye-poppi

Did anyone catch their insignia, I couldn't figure out what units they were from, although one guy had a 1st Armored combat patch. Of course Jonesy knows they were Northcom martial law troops. I am still mad I don't know the secret Northcom handshake.

[chipmunk stew]

Watching the part with them heading back to the subway, etc., to a soundtrack of thug rap, in which the lyrics conjure up an image of a gritty neighborhood and the artists warn against snitching and brag about being willing to kill a cop if necessary, I was reminded of the scene in Office Space when the lead and his friends go through with their conspiracy to install a virus on their corporate intranet to the G-life anthem "Damn It Feels Good to Be a Gangsta". For a moment I forgot this was not a parody, and that Dylan and co. take themselves very seriously.

[chipmunk stew]

I'm also struck at how incompetent this group seems with all things tangible.

They approach the subway ticket machine and their hotel door like a group of cavemen around a microwave.

How many Loosers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? All of them, apparently.

[Brainster]

I'm also struck at how incompetent this group seems with all things tangible.

They approach the subway ticket machine and their hotel door like a group of cavemen around a microwave.

I couldn't help chuckling at their taking the subway. When you've got a group of 4-5 people or more, it's actually cheaper to cab it.

[Gravy]

I couldn't help chuckling at their taking the subway. When you've got a group of 4-5 people or more, it's actually cheaper to cab it.
By taking the subway, though, they can claim that Teh Man forced their movement underground.

[chipmunk stew]

I had the interview with Craig Bartmer (~45:00-1:30:00) on my headphones while I was working. He's an ex-NYPD who was at Ground Zero and is now suffering lung ailments from breathing in the dust and polluted air. He is deeply bitter and intensely angry. He has not been treated well.

He didn't buy into the conspiracy theories until his friends pressured him into seeing the first Loose Change, after which he started looking into it himself. He now recites assertions from CT sites (such as put options) that have since been thorough debunked.

If our recent efforts had started a year or so earlier, I wonder if his interview would be hanging from Dylan's trophy belt today?

[boloboffin]

From that same thread:



I think I've finally figured out why the LC film convinces so many of these guys. The fact that they can look at this video, and accuse Gravy of doing what Alex Jones is actually doing, just shows that they honestly can't see the truth in front of their eyes. This is just one example, there were others in that thread as well, where they somehow managed to completely reverse who was doing what.

I don't know what brain malfunction leads to this phenomenon, but I'm sure it's there somewhere. There's just nothing else I can imagine that can explain such utter blindness...Any neuroscientists out there looking for a thesis to work on?

They bought their own propaganda.

[Gravy]

Getting back to the videos, I'd like to learn a little more about Luke.
I don't know much about him. He was at one of their Saturday GZ gatherings, and I think he does a lot of organizing behind the scenes.

[boloboffin]

If you ever need an actor to play Alex Jones in a movie, I'm your guy. (I'm also in the DFW area, though.)

I look enough like him for dramatized re-enactments. And I love to do a skewering of the guy. He's ripe for it.

[Brainster]

If you ever need an actor to play Alex Jones in a movie, I'm your guy. (I'm also in the DFW area, though.)

I look enough like him for dramatized re-enactments. And I love to do a skewering of the guy. He's ripe for it.

Hi Boloboffin, welcome to the JREF forums! For those unaware, Boloboffin is one of the top debunkers over at the Democratic Underground 9-11 forum (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125), along with another recent arrival here, GreyLeonard.

[60hzxtl]

If you ever need an actor to play Alex Jones in a movie, I'm your guy. (I'm also in the DFW area, though.)

I look enough like him for dramatized re-enactments. And I love to do a skewering of the guy. He's ripe for it.

Hmmmm.

Maybe we could borrow you for a weekend of dis-information in NY at GZ. . . .

Welcome boloboffin!

[chipmunk stew]

If you ever need an actor to play Alex Jones in a movie, I'm your guy. (I'm also in the DFW area, though.)

I look enough like him for dramatized re-enactments. And I love to do a skewering of the guy. He's ripe for it.
Do you sing? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63415) :)

Welcome!

[JamesB]

If you ever need an actor to play Alex Jones in a movie, I'm your guy. (I'm also in the DFW area, though.)

I look enough like him for dramatized re-enactments. And I love to do a skewering of the guy. He's ripe for it.

I am not sure how you could possibly mock Alex Jones anymore than Alex Jones already does himself...

[Redtail]

And If you need another actor I wear glasses, have cruly hair, and can puncuate every sentence with "Bay-Bee! I even have an MFA in acting. :D

[negativ]

Hi Boloboffin, welcome to the JREF forums! For those unaware, Boloboffin is one of the top debunkers over at the Democratic Underground 9-11 forum (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125), along with another recent arrival here, GreyLeonard.

Mmmm, the shrill, wild-eyed creamy caramel histrionics of DU.com mingled with the peanutty crunch of willfully ignorant Truther paranoia, nestled in an impenetrably thick and insulated skull of pure Ipecac, with just a sprinkling of magnesium citrate for that extra burst of ... flavor.

[Alareth]

I don't know. Maybe it's the couple of beers I've had this evening. But I've been replaying the Bermas conversation with Abby in my mind.

How f*cking stupid do you have to be to believe that the firefighters at ground zero were in on the so-called conspiracy?

Putting aside for a moment the ones who died at the scene (and heros they were -- I just saw photos of the guys climbing the stairs again and started to tear up), what sort of idiot thinks that all the other firefighters would watch their brothers die in a planned demolition and not speak up because they were supposedly worried about their pensions? Not even one.

That is so f*cking retarded. I can't believe you guys can even stand to breathe the same air as those douche bags, much less try and debate them.

I've seen truthers make statements that all the ones that died were killed because they wouldn't co-operate in the "cover-up"

[shuize]

I've seen truthers make statements that all the ones that died were killed because they wouldn't co-operate in the "cover-up"
Well, I'm calmer since my post above. But that explanation is just as retarded as the original claim.

[Horatius]

I've seen truthers make statements that all the ones that died were killed because they wouldn't co-operate in the "cover-up"

That's just so.....Ugh! I was watching the video discussed in this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=65229). The bit that hits me the hardest, is at one point, the doctor fellow finds someone who needs oxygen, but he doesn't have any. He stops one of the firemen, and tells him the other guy needs oxy, and without hesitation, "10-4!" off the fireman goes to help the other guy. No hestation, no worry about his own needs, just Bam! Doing his job. After just seeing the collapse, in which he has to know a lot of other firemen died. And they expect me to believe this guy was just part of a mass murder of his own friends? As if!

I'm getting angry all over again just typing this!

[Polaris]

He should start a church.

SHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHhhhhhh!!!!!

[Polaris]

According to the truthers, it's impossible to to believe the official 9/11 story AND criticize Bush and the US current politics. I find that very strange, but maybe that's just me. I should probably sit down and wait for my huge check from the US government for being such a dedicated shill.

Let's all pool our money and buy the rights to Loose Change.

[Polaris]

I am not sure how you could possibly mock Alex Jones anymore than Alex Jones already does himself...

Dress to look exactly like him, show up at an event where he'll be spewing, stand right next to him, and show, in the same manner as he is, recipes from a cook book.

[Gravy]

Dress to look exactly like him, show up at an event where he'll be spewing, stand right next to him, and show, in the same manner as he is, recipes from a cook book.
:D
...Or show kitten pictures, really aggressively.

That bit with the Marines was unbelievable. And the most unbelieveble thing was that the LC crew applauded him when he returned to the table.

[Mince]

Gravy;

You have such fortitude, my friend. It isn't easy being the only right in a room full of wrongs. Typical Alex Jones: winning arguments by posse comitatus. Jones is really irritating, but to great effect. He's often asked who has benefited most from 9/11. Well, I say it is Jones himself. He would be very unremarkable but for his sensationalism. If not for 9/11, he'd be a trivial hack in a business already overcrowded with his ilk. He always prefaces his spurious, unsubstantiated claims with "it's been admitted" or "it's documented." Here's how it works:

Today, I tell an AP reporter that George Bush told me he planned the 9/11 attacks. The reporter then publishes an article carrying my claim. Tomorrow, Alex Jones claims that George Bush admitted planning the 9/11 attacks. "It's documented, just read yesterday's AP article."

It was rather fascinating watching you frustrate his cabal. I expected them, at one point, to say "God, just...just believe me!" The biggest tragedy, outside of the actual event, is watching these predators gain undue fame and fortune.

Kudos to you. I don't think I'd have the will to do what you did at GZ, if even I had the knowledge.

[Spins]

He's often asked who has benefited most from 9/11. Well, I say it is Jones himself. He would be very unremarkable but for his sensationalism. If not for 9/11, he'd be a trivial hack in a business already overcrowded with his ilk.
That is so true, and as you say before 9/11 he was just another kook and now he's become somewhat of a cult hero amongst the paranoid, tin-foil hat wearing, conspiracy loving crowd, because after all he did predict the attacks! Not surprising really as he predicts things on an almost daily basis that don't come true, he was bound to score a direct hit sooner or later!

[Mince]

JFC! These idiots actually believe that Jones and company bitch slapped the gravy train.

Do to my noob status, me can't type in the full link......so please add the prefix below.

s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15357


by dylan avery
like where he says that the World Trade Center had "no columns on the inside"?

just the way he introduces himself into the situation...almost never took off his shades, was asking everyone questions...yeahhh...he got his fifteen minutes of fame. http://proxify.com/blank.gif

Uh, Dylan: After God created Heaven and Earth, he created the term "15 minutes of fame." He had you in mind when doing so; except that he erred. He envisioned people actually earning their 15 minutes.

**emphasis added

ETA: Does anyone have a functioning iron-o-meter left?

[jhunter1163]

Do you sing? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63415) :)

Welcome!

What are you saying about my vocals? ;)

I should check with Greyleonard about how that's coming along. He said to give him a few days, he wanted to clean it up a little before he mixed it. We'll see how he is at turning sow's ears into silk purses.

Welcome to the forums, Bolo.

[Alareth]

That is so true, and as you say before 9/11 he was just another kook and now he's become somewhat of a cult hero amongst the paranoid, tin-foil hat wearing, conspiracy loving crowd, because after all he did predict the attacks! Not surprising really as he predicts things on an almost daily basis that don't come true, he was bound to score a direct hit sooner or later!

Is there any way of comparing is prediction accuracy rate to say, Sylvia Browne? ;)

[Bell]

Is there any way of comparing is prediction accuracy rate to say, Sylvia Browne? ;)

Anybody got a linky to his latest terror attack prediction? The NWO doesn 't answer my calls. And if I'm not mistaken, it is to happen this month?

[Spins]

Anybody got a linky to his latest terror attack prediction? The NWO doesn 't answer my calls. And if I'm not mistaken, it is to happen this month?Most of the predictions he makes are made on his radio program. Here's some Perry Logan has compiled on his website...


Alex predicted millennial havoc, but none occurred.

"This is only the beginning. In the next few years, in this second phase--the period of escalating violence. They're gonna allow limited nuclear exchanges." "There's going to be more. This is only the kickoff." (9/13/01)

"Within 2 years I'm predicting...that you're going to see a suitcase nuke in this country. You're probably going to see a release in a few years of something communicable. & I am predicting that you will see a lot of conventional bombings...in the next year or so." (10/18/01)

"I'm telling you now...there's a very good chance there gonna blow something up overseas or here." "The evidence is all tilting toward...blowing up a building. They're really setting us up for a smallpox attack." Chemical attacks are "almost a guarantee in the next six months or so." (9/26/02)

"They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans." There was going to be a nuclear release in Iraq, an international depression, formation of a world government, probably a nuclear release in Iraq, an international depression, a world government formed. Also, "They may kill millions of Americans." (7/11/02)

They're going to blow more stuff up.
(4/13/04)

"I predict Arnold is gonna save children at a school shooting, or there'll be some type of bombing, & he will land by helicopter & run in & direct things. I predict it....I see it all aligning. I see it all coming together. I see their plan, clear as day....He'll fly in & things will be burninig & he'll run into it & save someone." [circa March of 2005. Kinda proves Alex is living a fantasy, doesn't it?]

Alex also said (several times) they were going to roll out Osama bin Laden "on ice" before the 2004 election.

Alex said they were going to blow up Washington DC before the election.

Alex said Saddam Hussein had been taken to Cuba.Can't post the links becasue I'm a JREF noob! :)

perrylogan.org/ AlexBleef.html
perrylogan.org/ Bogus%20Predictions.html

remove the space after the forward slash

[Bell]

Hello Spins,

For easy access:
http://www.perrylogan.org/AlexBleef.html
http://www.perrylogan.org/Bogus%20Predictions.html

Perry is nuts, btw ;) But in a good way.
You gotta love Jones' prediction about Arnie saving the day. I'll wait for the movie.

[Spins]

Is there any way of comparing is prediction accuracy rate to say, Sylvia Browne?
Possibly, but I'm guessing it's about the same, I've heard they both live on the same planet though, its called planet tin-foil hat!

I've also heard a rumor Alex Jones can sometimes be found in New York harassing military personnel and "non-believers" before he returns to planet tin-foil hat!

;)

[Spins]

Perry is nuts, btw ;) But in a good way.
Yeah, I've seen one of his videos on YouTube. I think a lot of it is an act, as you say he's a friendly nut-job! :)

[G-K-4]

Anybody got a linky to his latest terror attack prediction? The NWO doesn 't answer my calls. And if I'm not mistaken, it is to happen this month?
I don't know if Alex Jones is predicting this, but some of the kids at LC are biting their fingernails over the October 21 U.S. attack against Iran. It will be sparked by the destruction of the U.S.S. Enterprise (no, not that one) in a false flag operation conducted by the U.S. and Israel.

Or something.

But note that October 21 is 10/21, and 10+2+1=13. OMG!

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15909

The thread was begun by a poster named "shure", who quotes the following article by Hall Turner:

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=105096;title=AP FN

Hal Turner is a radio show host infamous for his racism and anti-Semitism.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=215#35

Turner's website basically allows him to hang himself.
http://www.halturnershow.com/index.html

[Hellbound]

Ah, geeze.

How'd they intercept that memo?

They've got it all wrong, though. See, the memo stated:

On October 21st at 1900 hours, as previously scheduled, U.S. and Isreali forces will conduct operation "Never Saw it Coming" against the U.S.S. Enterprise. We expect this to be a huge blow-up, so we require the area to be cleared of any potential witnesses. Secrecy is paramount...no one must know we are conducting this operation. Make sure our operatives dress in Arabic clothing."

Now, sure, this may sound suspicicious, but it's actually referring to a suprise birthday party for the General. THe party will be huge, so we don't want any reporters writing stories about drunk saliors on the flight deck. We had to send people onto the ship and into town (where Enterprise soldiers might be taking shore leave) to recon the party site buy supplies, so we dressed them in Arab garb so they wouldn't be recognized. And, of course, we were trying to make it a SUPRISE party. Thanks a lot, "truthers"!

:D

[MarkyX]

Yeah, I've seen one of his videos on YouTube. I think a lot of it is an act, as you say he's a friendly nut-job! :)

I talk to Perry every now and then. Perry Logan is not his real name, but a fictional character.

Although he really, really, really loathes republicans.

[TheGrunion]

Ah, geeze.

How'd they intercept that memo?

:D

On a related topic.....

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15285

I will post an excerpt here till i hear back from him that i can post it in its entirety..

This is the important part..


QUOTE I am an ex USAF pilot (365th MAC, 18th Sq, McGuire AFB) and have
forwarded a link to your site to several of my pilot friends.....

.....In addition, my research has lead me to believe that a nuclear attack on Iran is tentatively targeted on October 21, 2006 to circumvent the November 7 national election. The Dwight D. Eisenhower Strike Group is scheduled to depart Norfolk, VA on October 1, 2006 to arrive in the Persian Gulf by October 21, 2006 for the purported nuclear attack on Iran. (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/batgru-69-med07.htm).


I am in the process of securing emergency plans and preparedness for my families' survival after the consequences of the lunatics in this White House commence a global nuclear war (WW IV... WW III is the current bogus "Global War On Terror"). So I plan to be very busy with personal preparations prior to the November elections. If the earth survives and we still have any civil rights and/or choices left (ie. no marshall Law and Internment Camps), .....

[Brainster]

I talk to Perry every now and then. Perry Logan is not his real name, but a fictional character.

Although he really, really, really loathes republicans.

Really? I hadn't noticed. ;)

[Bell]

I don't know if Alex Jones is predicting this, but some of the kids at LC are biting their fingernails over the October 21 U.S. attack against Iran. It will be sparked by the destruction of the U.S.S. Enterprise (no, not that one) in a false flag operation conducted by the U.S. and Israel.

Or something.

But note that October 21 is 10/21, and 10+2+1=13. OMG!

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=15909

The thread was begun by a poster named "shure", who quotes the following article by Hall Turner:

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=105096;title=AP FN

Hal Turner is a radio show host infamous for his racism and anti-Semitism.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=215#35

Turner's website basically allows him to hang himself.
http://www.halturnershow.com/index.html

Well, since this will not happen, the troofers will say Hall Turner was right. But the gubmint cancelled the fake attack, because they were exposed. CT logic.

Anyhow, that was not what Jones was refering to. Prior to 9/11/06 (I think) he had another podcast or whatnot, ranting about a huge terror attack looming. Somewhere in Israel, or England, or in the US (to keep a wide scope). I hoped someone might have a linky at hand, because I can't be bothered to search and listen through all that dribble.

[Moochie]

Just watching a bit of Part 3C of 5. Seems these guys must have independent means to be able to go traipsing about NYC for hours at a time adoring each other and totally confusing the tourists.

M.

[Childlike Empress]

Here you go (http://download.alciada.eu/AlexJones/AlexJonesWarns911InJuly.wmv), Bell.

[Bell]

Here you go (http://download.alciada.eu/AlexJones/AlexJonesWarns911InJuly.wmv), Bell.

CE, thanks, but that was the 2001 radioshow. I was talking about a show from this year. Oh well, forget it. Who want's to look and listen to that nut anyway?

[Childlike Empress]

Oops, sorry. First read, then post... ;)

[Mince]

It will be sparked by the destruction of the U.S.S. Enterprise (no, not that one)


http://www.geocities.com/zarvoxian/stiv/chekov/wessel.wav

[Regnad Kcin]

I couldn't help chuckling at their taking the subway. When you've got a group of 4-5 people or more, it's actually cheaper to cab it.More than five people in a cab? What next, someone eating a dozen goldfish? A panty raid?

[MarkyX]

Okay guys, need some help.

What the hell is Alex Jones talking about with this language dean bullcrap? Where can I find a site that refutes that the language dean, which I have doubts would be relating himself with security matters, saying that "we trained hijackers"

[LashL]

Okay guys, need some help.

What the hell is Alex Jones talking about with this language dean bullcrap? Where can I find a site that refutes that the language dean, which I have doubts would be relating himself with security matters, saying that "we trained hijackers"

In one of Jones' rants at that troofy conference, he said something to the effect that “The dean of the Defense Language School said the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. 3 of the hijackers had high level spy training at the Defense Language school in California”. Apparently, he attributed it to a story in the San Jose Mercury News. I saw on another website that the owner of the site looked this up on Google and did an archive article search at the San Jose Mercury News’s web site and could find no original source reference to this story.

But I also found this online (from something I would not consider a reputable source) but it's a start for a search:


"A US Air Force officer, Lt Colonel Steve Butler as vice-chancellor for student affairs at the Defence Language Institute, has been suspended from duty after he wrote a letter to a California newspaper accusing President George W. Bush of allowing the Sept 11 attacks to happen because he needed the war on terrorism. Butler’s letter accused Bush - the commander in chief of the US armed forces - of allowing the Sept 11 attacks to occur for his own political ends. Butler’s letter said, of course, Bush knew about the impending attacks on America, but he did nothing to warn the American people because he needed the war on terrorism; his daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. He further wrote that Bush's presidency was going nowhere. He wasn’t elected by the American people, but placed into the Oval Office by the conservative Supreme Court ... the economy was sliding into the usual Republican pits and he needed something to hang his presidency on," reported the Reuters/AP news agency."


Although it cites Reuters and AP, I haven't yet found any original source for it. All I've found is the above and a similar story here:

MONTEREY - A United States Air Force officer has been suspended from duty after he wrote a letter to a California newspaper accusing President George W. Bush of allowing the September 11 attacks to happen "because he needed this war on terrorism".

Lieutenant Colonel Steve Butler was relieved of his duties as vice-chancellor for student affairs at the Defence Language Institute pending an investigation into his letter, which was published in the Monterey County Herald on May 26, a military spokesman said.

Butler's letter accused Bush - the Commander-in-Chief of the US armed forces - of allowing the September 11 attacks to occur for his own political ends.

"Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had
Saddam and he needed Osama.

"His presidency was going nowhere. He wasn't elected by the American people, but placed into the Oval Office by the conservative Supreme Court ... The economy was sliding into the usual Republican pits and he needed something to hang his presidency on.

"This guy is a joke."

Butler, a 24-year Air Force veteran who served as a combat pilot during the 1990 Gulf War, was not immediately available for comment.

His wife, Shelly Butler, said the military had given her husband "a lot of grief" over the letter and reassigned him to temporary duty at Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield, California.

She said he planned to retire in several weeks.

Butler's suspension was apparently based on Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which says that any commissioned officer who uses "contemptuous words" against the President or other senior officials may be punished by a court-martial.

The Monterey Herald said the last Article 88 court-martial occurred in 1965 when an Army second lieutenant was prosecuted for taking part in an anti-war protest in Texas, although the Pentagon had "quietly issued" memos reminding officers of the Article 88 provisions after President Bill Clinton became embroiled in the Monica Lewinsky scandal, prompting letters to the editor from military officers.

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/news/articles/officeringun.htm

(Again, I haven't yet seen it reported from an original source (Monterey Herald or Reuters or AP)

[Polaris]

:D
...Or show kitten pictures, really aggressively.

That bit with the Marines was unbelievable. And the most unbelieveble thing was that the LC crew applauded him when he returned to the table.

I didn't watch that far into it. I have to wonder about the owners of the establishment who didn't have the NYPD eject him and his barnacles for harassing customers.

Ever see an old video, just after 9/11, of a diner owner in NYC who had to be restrained from attacking a black woman who was her customer who was shouting to everybody that 9/11 was just desserts for "all the murdered Iraqi babies we dunn killed"?

[Brainster]

I don't know much about him. He was at one of their Saturday GZ gatherings, and I think he does a lot of organizing behind the scenes.

Found him; the name is Luke Rudkowski (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0608,murphy,72254,6.html), and he is indeed even younger than Dylan:

They unite Luke Rudkowski, an earnest Brooklyn College freshman, with David Ray Griffin, a California theologian who wrote The New Pearl Harbor. They link Les Jamieson, a web designer and coordinator for New York 9-11 Truth, with multimillionaire Jimmy Walter, dreamer of car-free, self-sustaining cities.

[Class]

I didn't watch that far into it. I have to wonder about the owners of the establishment who didn't have the NYPD eject him and his barnacles for harassing customers.

That's because the store owner supported them and told them about the Marines. He's the white haired man they talk to and Alex Jones gives the man a tip for driving them out.

[Bell]

That's because the store owner supported them and told them about the Marines. He's the white haired man they talk to and Alex Jones gives the man a tip for driving them out.

No way! :eek: That's one sad person. What's that cafetaria's name and address? So that skeptics can avoid like hell.

[Redtail]

No way! :eek: That's one sad person. What's that cafetaria's name and address? So that skeptics can avoid like hell.

Or... Go in there, wait for the Ctrs to show up, then point, giggle and pass notes.:D

[Bell]

Or... Go in there, wait for the Ctrs to show up, then point, giggle and pass notes.:D

Or get a job there and spit in their food :boxedin:

[Brainster]

No way! :eek: That's one sad person. What's that cafetaria's name and address? So that skeptics can avoid like hell.

The restaurant is called Oliva (http://www.olivany.net/home.htm) at 225 Broadway between Vesey and Barclay. I should note that I don't know that the owner was the one who pointed out the presence of the military men and women; he may have been a maitre d' or something similar. But I'll definitely not eat there when I'm in NYC next.

Hat Tip to SLC commenter Manny.

[Polaris]

That's because the store owner supported them and told them about the Marines. He's the white haired man they talk to and Alex Jones gives the man a tip for driving them out.

Like I said, I didn't actually watch past the Gravy/Jones Celebrity Deathmatch.

I'd like to see a platoon of USMC just walk into that place, each sit down, and not order a thing. Let the owner try to get the cops to move them.

I have another idea, but I'm not going to say what it is, in case someone thought of it before me, I wouldn't want to have "confessed" to something I hadn't done.

I've sent the place an email, voicing my displeasure. Maybe sending a link to Opie and Anthony will generate some extra flak for this place, if their listenership is made aware of this occurrance?

[Mince]

Ah, geeze.

How'd they intercept that memo?

They've got it all wrong, though. See, the memo stated:

On October 21st at 1900 hours, as previously scheduled, U.S. and Isreali forces will conduct operation "Never Saw it Coming" against the U.S.S. Enterprise. We expect this to be a huge blow-up, so we require the area to be cleared of any potential witnesses. Secrecy is paramount...no one must know we are conducting this operation. Make sure our operatives dress in Arabic clothing."


:D

God Damnit!! How does this (top secret) information keep getting out!? How is it that some lame enlisted person knows about it and decides to email johndoeX, instead of, you know, seeking fame and fortune for all his knowledge?

[JamesB]

Okay guys, need some help.

What the hell is Alex Jones talking about with this language dean bullcrap? Where can I find a site that refutes that the language dean, which I have doubts would be relating himself with security matters, saying that "we trained hijackers"

That is actually based on a true story. An Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, who was an associate dean for student affairs at the Defense Language Institute (not the Defense Language School and not the dean of the institute either) wrote a letter to the editor of the Monterey newspaper claiming Bush knew about 9/11. It is a violation of article 88 of the UCMJ for an active duty officer to show contempt for a public offficial, so they investigated him (I am not sure if he was ever charged though, he dropped from public view). There have been some claims that one of the hijackers studied there, although it most likely one of those, weird phenomenons known as Arabs not having unique names.

Jones claimed he called the LTC up and the guy said that he was forced to train the hijackers, before he got spooked and hung up. I have no idea what they would be training them in, DLI as the name implies is a language school, were they learning Korean? It does not teach espionage, I am not sure now, but before 9/11 you could just drive onto campus and walk into any classroom. An interesting place to train our elite secret agents.