Clinton's Dead Bodies List

[kc440_]

Can someone address this claim that President Clinton's administration was rife with murder? Please, no name calling, whatever your opinion.

http://www.zpub.com/un/un-bc-body.html

kc440

[kookbreaker]

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm

[T.A.M.]

Yes, like the snopes article says, public figures have HUGE circles of acquaintances and hundreds and hundreds of people working for them.

I would venture you could find just as big a list for any president.

TAM

[defaultdotxbe]

snopes makes a good rulebook, goes well with any CT


List every dead person with even the most tenuous of connections to your subject. It doesn't matter how these people died, or how tangential they were to your subject's life. The longer the list, the more impressive it looks and the less likely anyone is to challenge it. By the time readers get to the bottom of the list, they'll be too weary to wonder what could possibly be relevant about the death of Clinton's mother's chiropractor.

Play word games. Make sure every death is presented as "mysterious." All accidental deaths are to be labelled "suspicious," even though by definition accidents occur when something unexpected goes wrong. Every self-inflicted death discussed must include the phrase "ruled a suicide," to imply just the opposite. When an autopsy contradicts a "mysterious death" theory, dispute it; when none was performed because none was needed, claim that "no autopsy was allowed." Make liberal use of words such as 'allegedly' and 'supposedly' to dismiss facts you can't contradict with hard evidence.

Make sure every inconsistency or unexplained detail you can dredge up is offered as evidence of a conspiracy, no matter how insignificant or pointless it may be. If an obvious suicide is discovered wearing only one shoe, ignore the physical evidence of self-inflicted death and dwell on the missing shoe. You don't have to establish an alternate theory of the death; just keep harping that the missing shoe "can't be explained."

If the data doesn't fit your conclusion, ignore it. You don't have to explain why the people who claim to have the most damaging goods on Clinton — Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky, Kenneth Starr — are still walking around unscathed while dozens of bit players have been bumped off. It's inconvenient for you, so don't mention it.

Most importantly, don't let facts and details stand in your way! If you can pass off a death by pneumonia as a "suicide," do it! If a cause of death contradicts your conspiracy theory, claim it was "never determined." If your chronology of events is impossible, who cares? It's not like anybody is going to check up on this stuff . . .

[Loss Leader]

Can someone address this claim that President Clinton's administration was rife with murder? Please, no name calling, whatever your opinion.

http://www.zpub.com/un/un-bc-body.html

kc440

I commend to you most heartily the book The Hunting of the President (http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Ten-Year-Campaign-Clinton/dp/0312273193). Joe Conason and Gene Lyons explore in methodical detail the ten year crusade to find any scandal to pin to Bill Clinton. You will learn just how little truth there was to anything Clinton was accused of - black children, rape, murder, securities fraud and more.

[kc440_]

I commend to you most heartily the book The Hunting of the President (http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Ten-Year-Campaign-Clinton/dp/0312273193). Joe Conason and Gene Lyons explore in methodical detail the ten year crusade to find any scandal to pin to Bill Clinton. You will learn just how little truth there was to anything Clinton was accused of - black children, rape, murder, securities fraud and more.

Thank you.

I am suspicious still of Vince Foster's death. And some of the military men. I bet this has been discussed here long ago.

Defaultdotxbe, let's take President Kennedy as an example. "Mysterious" deaths: Marilyn Monroe, the Diem brothers, Karyn Kupcinet, Lee Harvey Oswald, Eleanor Roosevelt, Mary Meyers.

Offhand, those are all I can think of. Too bad Castro's name wasn't on the Kennedy list. :o

kc440

[Loss Leader]

Lee Harvey Oswald

Regarding the killiing of Lee Harvey Oswald, police are interested in talking to this man (http://www.assassinat-jfk.com/media/image/jack_ruby_police.jpg).

[kc440_]

Yes, Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. Or should I say Ruby killed Harvey Oswald. Two people were using the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know if Harvey knew of Lee. In reading the tome Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong, I am not finished but I think Harvey, murdered by Ruby, was a loser and was set up. Lee was aware of Harvey and was setting him up and basically doing things to confuse people in posterity.
kc440

[Loss Leader]

Yes, Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. Or should I say Ruby killed Harvey Oswald. Two people were using the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know if Harvey knew of Lee. In reading the tome Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong, I am not finished but I think Harvey, murdered by Ruby, was a loser and was set up. Lee was aware of Harvey and was setting him up and basically doing things to confuse people in posterity.
kc440


Um ... okay. The world you live in must be a dark, Kafkaesque Tim Burton nightmare so good luck with that.

[Elizabeth I]

Um ... okay. The world you live in must be a dark, Kafkaesque Tim Burton nightmare so good luck with that.

Okay, here's the thing: I SWEAR I was watching TV live as the police were escorting Oswald to court for his arraignment, and saw Ruby step up and shoot Oswald. Then one of the police turned to Ruby and said, "Jack, you son of a b***ch" [does that word violate Rule 8?] in an almost conversational tone. At most he sounded mildly irritated. My husband also remembers this. I have never heard anyone else tell the story, nor have I seen that particular clip in any of those replayed since.

My question is, does anyone else remember that comment from the cop? Or are my husband and I suffering mutual created memory? Or was there a conspiracy to wipe everyone else's memory? Or WHAT?

[kc440_]

Um ... okay. The world you live in must be a dark, Kafkaesque Tim Burton nightmare so good luck with that.

Thank you.

Haven't you ever seen photos of Lee Harvey Oswald where he looks different than he did in the police station? Like the infamous "backyard" photos. Whose face is that? Some nut is going to hold a communist newspaper and a rifle and wants himself photographed with these things? Those photos were toyed with. The man's chin is squared with shadow.

kc440

[kc440_]

Okay, here's the thing: I SWEAR I was watching TV live as the police were escorting Oswald to court for his arraignment, and saw Ruby step up and shoot Oswald. Then one of the police turned to Ruby and said, "Jack, you son of a b***ch" [does that word violate Rule 8?] in an almost conversational tone. At most he sounded mildly irritated. My husband also remembers this. I have never heard anyone else tell the story, nor have I seen that particular clip in any of those replayed since.

My question is, does anyone else remember that comment from the cop? Or are my husband and I suffering mutual created memory? Or was there a conspiracy to wipe everyone else's memory? Or WHAT?

I believe you 100%. I saw it live but I was little. I don't remember hearing that. Could they have removed that line from subsequent showings because you weren't allowed to say bitch on TV then?

kc440

[kookbreaker]

Thank you.

Haven't you ever seen photos of Lee Harvey Oswald where he looks different than he did in the police station? Like the infamous "backyard" photos. Whose face is that? Some nut is going to hold a communist newspaper and a rifle and wants himself photographed with these things? Those photos were toyed with. The man's chin is squared with shadow.


Those photos have been analysed to hell and back. The grain matches, the camera scartches match oswald's camera, Maria Oswald distinctly remembers taking them. Oswald was a nut, and Communism was just his little way of trying to be big fish in a little pond. Read 'Case Closed' to see just how crazy he was and how having pics taken of him and his new used rifle were well in character.

IN the meantime, read this. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/2oswalds.htm)

and

this. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/photos.txt)

[Loss Leader]

Okay, here's the thing: I SWEAR I was watching TV live as the police were escorting Oswald to court for his arraignment, and saw Ruby step up and shoot Oswald. Then one of the police turned to Ruby and said, "Jack, you son of a b***ch" [does that word violate Rule 8?] in an almost conversational tone. At most he sounded mildly irritated. My husband also remembers this. I have never heard anyone else tell the story, nor have I seen that particular clip in any of those replayed since.

My question is, does anyone else remember that comment from the cop? Or are my husband and I suffering mutual created memory? Or was there a conspiracy to wipe everyone else's memory? Or WHAT?

Yeah, well Ruby was well known to the Dallas police department. That's how he got anywhere near Oswald to begin with. And, of course, nobody in Dallas actually was rooting for Oswald. So, I wouldn't be surprised if that were true.

[Hamradioguy]

Okay, here's the thing: I SWEAR I was watching TV live as the police were escorting Oswald to court for his arraignment, and saw Ruby step up and shoot Oswald. Then one of the police turned to Ruby and said, "Jack, you son of a b***ch" [does that word violate Rule 8?] in an almost conversational tone. At most he sounded mildly irritated. My husband also remembers this. I have never heard anyone else tell the story, nor have I seen that particular clip in any of those replayed since.

My question is, does anyone else remember that comment from the cop? Or are my husband and I suffering mutual created memory? Or was there a conspiracy to wipe everyone else's memory? Or WHAT?

No conspiracy, but a clear example of Recovered Memory Syndrome. The cop to whom Oswald was handcuffed- Detective James R. Leavelle- did indeed say "Jack, you son of a b**ch", but I doubt you actually heard him say it at the time. Per the Warren Report: "Someone shouted 'here he comes'; additional spotlights were turned on in the basement and the din increased." "...all the newsmen were poking their sound mikes across to him and asking questions..."

Play a copy of the tape of that event and you'll see that there was so much shouting it would have been impossible for you to have heard Leavelle's comment. However, Leavelle WAS interviewed AFTER the event and at that point repeated his comments. I can't cite a specific source but believe it was on "60 Minutes" many years later that he added that he said it in an almost converstaional tone (Anybody care to find the interview I'm thinking of?)

So, you heard Leavelle's comments when he was interviewed and then you "remembered" hearing them at the time of Oswald's shooting. No at all an uncommon experience.

[Brainster]

Yes, like the snopes article says, public figures have HUGE circles of acquaintances and hundreds and hundreds of people working for them.

I would venture you could find just as big a list for any president.

TAM

Eisenhower? He sent thousands of Americans to their deaths on June 6, 1944.:rolleyes:

[kc440_]

Those photos have been analysed to hell and back. The grain matches, the camera scartches match oswald's camera, Maria Oswald distinctly remembers taking them. Oswald was a nut, and Communism was just his little way of trying to be big fish in a little pond. Read 'Case Closed' to see just how crazy he was and how having pics taken of him and his new used rifle were well in character.

IN the meantime, read this. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/2oswalds.htm)

and

this. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/photos.txt)

I read your 2 accounts. Thanks for telling me about them. But I trust my own senses. If Harvey set himself up, why would he declare himself to be innocent and a patsy at the police station, if he wanted to go out with glory? Recently there was that freak named Carr who claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey. He loved the camera and insisted he did it. But Oswald in police custody and before the press claimed he was innocent.

I've seen many LHO photos. Even as a kid I could tell the Backyard photos were not him.

And you've heard "Thou doth protest too much"? Robert Oswald is vehement about his brother's guilt and has never visited Marina in the years since the crime, nor his "nieces." Why? He is not a blood relative of the 2 girls. He was not Harvey's brother. DNA would prove it.

About Oswald exhumed, the head and the torso are of 2 different people. How did Oswald's head get severed from his body or skeletal remains?

In Mailer's book about Oswald, he describes LHO being arrested in a near riot outside the theater and a merchant seeing the police exit with LHO from the back door of the theater. Mailer might not have understood the implications of what he wrote.

I'm sorry. I can't believe what you do.

kc440

[Gravy]

Well, I guess you've taken a step forward, kc440: you're derailing your own threads with JFK assassination nonsense. Am I going to find this everywhere you post? I'd like to know so I can steer clear.

[Loss Leader]

Actually, 9/11 is what finally convinced me that there was no conspiracy surrounding the assassination of JFK. I have watched the trooth movement spring up in the face of such insurmountable evidence for really no other reason than that it satisfies the psychological needs of its believers. Big events must have big causes? Not in the case of 9/11. And it helped me see that I had falled into that trap regarding JFK.

Oswald acted alone.

[kookbreaker]

I read your 2 accounts. Thanks for telling me about them. But I trust my own senses. If Harvey set himself up, why would he declare himself to be innocent and a patsy at the police station, if he wanted to go out with glory? Recently there was that freak named Carr who claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey. He loved the camera and insisted he did it. But Oswald in police custody and before the press claimed he was innocent.

Oswald was not about public perception and glory, he was about being someone who did things. Don't try to compare him to a gloryhounding habitual confessor.

I've seen many LHO photos. Even as a kid I could tell the Backyard photos were not him.

All the evidence says otherwise.

And you've heard "Thou doth protest too much"? Robert Oswald is vehement about his brother's guilt and has never visited Marina in the years since the crime, nor his "nieces." Why? He is not a blood relative of the 2 girls. He was not Harvey's brother. DNA would prove it.


Its not that Robert is vehement, he's merely adamant about it despite years of conspiracy kooks trying to convince him otherwise. As for the visiting? That could be the result of hundreds of personal matters that are not your or my concern. As for the DNA? I would not want to coddle to kooks ludicrous suggestions.


About Oswald exhumed, the head and the torso are of 2 different people. How did Oswald's head get severed from his body or skeletal remains?


The head was removed during the exhumation autopsy. You might wish to read about the process:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/lhox1.htm

There is no evidence of body and head being different.

"“The findings of the team are as follows: We independently and as a team have concluded beyond any doubt, and I mean beyond any doubt, that the individual buried under the name of Lee Harvey Oswald in Rose Hill Cemetery is in fact Lee Harvey Oswald.”"


In Mailer's book about Oswald, he describes LHO being arrested in a near riot outside the theater and a merchant seeing the police exit with LHO from the back door of the theater. Mailer might not have understood the implications of what he wrote.

I'm sorry. I can't believe what you do.


Its not a matter of belief, its a matter of evidence.

[tsig]

I read your 2 accounts. Thanks for telling me about them. But I trust my own senses. If Harvey set himself up, why would he declare himself to be innocent and a patsy at the police station, if he wanted to go out with glory? Recently there was that freak named Carr who claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey. He loved the camera and insisted he did it. But Oswald in police custody and before the press claimed he was innocent.

I've seen many LHO photos. Even as a kid I could tell the Backyard photos were not him.

And you've heard "Thou doth protest too much"? Robert Oswald is vehement about his brother's guilt and has never visited Marina in the years since the crime, nor his "nieces." Why? He is not a blood relative of the 2 girls. He was not Harvey's brother. DNA would prove it.

About Oswald exhumed, the head and the torso are of 2 different people. How did Oswald's head get severed from his body or skeletal remains?

In Mailer's book about Oswald, he describes LHO being arrested in a near riot outside the theater and a merchant seeing the police exit with LHO from the back door of the theater. Mailer might not have understood the implications of what he wrote.

I'm sorry. I can't believe what you do.

kc440

You are quite welcome to your reality

but I don't think it will fit you and me

Therefore I shall just let you be

In the darkness of what you see.

[Cuddles]

I've seen many LHO photos. Even as a kid I could tell the Backyard photos were not him.

Some things can be debunked by kids because they are so obviously wrong. Other things cannot be debunked by kids because they do not know what they are talking about. Be careful you don't confuse the two.

Would you really accept a child's interpretation of evidence over that of qualified professionals?

[CurtC]

But I trust my own senses.

...

I've seen many LHO photos. Even as a kid I could tell the Backyard photos were not him.
Here you have effectively contrasted the way you work and the way that the regulars here work. We don't trust our senses. We demand evidence, and when evaluating evidence is beyond our abilities, we put trust in the consensus of the subject matter experts.

You can trust your senses if you so choose, but be aware that out of those two ways of operating, sense-trusting very frequently results in wrong answers, and demanding evidence is almost always right.

[kc440_]

Well, I guess you've taken a step forward, kc440: you're derailing your own threads with JFK assassination nonsense. Am I going to find this everywhere you post? I'd like to know so I can steer clear.

I can see how this thread went astray, but I wasn't the only guilty party. It's a case of all roads lead to Dealey Plaza.

kc440

[kc440_]

Here you have effectively contrasted the way you work and the way that the regulars here work. We don't trust our senses. We demand evidence, and when evaluating evidence is beyond our abilities, we put trust in the consensus of the subject matter experts.

You can trust your senses if you so choose, but be aware that out of those two ways of operating, sense-trusting very frequently results in wrong answers, and demanding evidence is almost always right.

You leave it in the hands of experts. Well, there's a class of experts on jfkresearch.com. Whom am I to believe?

kc440

[firecoins]

Actually, 9/11 is what finally convinced me that there was no conspiracy surrounding the assassination of JFK. I have watched the trooth movement spring up in the face of such insurmountable evidence for really no other reason than that it satisfies the psychological needs of its believers. Big events must have big causes? Not in the case of 9/11. And it helped me see that I had falled into that trap regarding JFK.

Oswald acted alone.
I second that. That is my story too and I am sticking too it! The fact that both of came to that conclusion must mean their was a conspiracy not to believe this stuff

[kookbreaker]

You leave it in the hands of experts. Well, there's a class of experts on jfkresearch.com. Whom am I to believe?


As you say 'a class of experts'

Which 'experts' told you Oswald's head was seperated from his body without even going through the autopsy report to see the explanation?

Which 'experts' have decided that the photos are fake despite several witnesses seeing them, Maria admitting she took them, and markings that indicate that they came from Oswald's camera to the exclusion of all others?

Many CT 'experts' are self-styled amatuers who embarass the term 'amatuer'. Like how every 911 CT'er is a structural engineer, a demolitionist, a fire expert, a metallurgist, and a seismologist all in one.

[Bell]

Eisenhower? He sent thousands of Americans to their deaths on June 6, 1944.:rolleyes:

Nooo! :eek:
What bastard!

[Brainache]

Yeah, but what I want to know is who killed Rooseveldt and McKinley?
Was Grover Cleveland all that people say he was?

[CurtC]

You leave it in the hands of experts. Well, there's a class of experts on jfkresearch.com. Whom am I to believe?
If you'll notice, I said "subject matter experts." Not "experts at dreaming up wild, unsubstantiated tripe," or "experts in philosophy."

[firecoins]

I think Clinton would be a good spokesman for Viagra.

[kc440_]

You are quite welcome to your reality

but I don't think it will fit you and me

Therefore I shall just let you be

In the darkness of what you see.

Thank you ever so. ;) Are those lines from a song?

kc440

[Parsman]

Well if pictures are all it takes to convince kc440 I have just seen an amazing video used as a trailer for a radio station which shows that Keith Moon and Elvis Presley are alive and well and gigging with Noel Gallacher, Sheryll Crowe, the Sugababes and Stevie Wonder. It must be true, it was in a moving picture...

[brodski]

Well if pictures are all it takes to convince kc440 I have just seen an amazing video used as a trailer for a radio station which shows that Keith Moon and Elvis Presley are alive and well and gigging with Noel Gallacher, Sheryll Crowe, the Sugababes and Stevie Wonder. It must be true, it was in a moving picture...

Radio 2 is run by TEH GLOBALISTS! ;)

Proof!

naFCdBYexB0

[tsig]

'a class of experts'

, a demolitionist, .

Most seem to be demonologists.

Wow that is devilish hard to spell.