Why do believers think atheists are amoral?

[rustypouch]

Because of recent visits by the JW's and a newspaper article I read this moring, written by a Christian university student about the decline of organised religion in Canada, I started thinking about the relationship between religion and morals. A quote from the article:

Put simply, it is the fact that a life lived without Christ, a life spent on drugs, alcohol and multiple sexual relationships, does not fulfil many university students in any manner.

Why do these people assume that because atheists have no belief in any deity that they are devoid of any morals and higher purpose? Why is it that a life without relgion automatically means a life of debauchery?

Frankly, I'm more concerned with the people who can't form their own opinions on morality, who have to take it from four thousand year old myths. I have had believers (the JW's who visited me) tell me that if they didn't have a god, there would be nothing to stop them from going around stealing and killing people. This implies to me that they think that because I have no god, there is nothing preventing me from acting in the same way. Does this mean that they don't trust themselves to make any important descisions? Does this mean that they would become anarchists if there were no consequences for their actions, and that the only thing keeping believers from running amok is the fear of divine retribution?

If this is true, how can religious people be trusted when there are no consequences to their actions?

As an atheist, I feel that I have a very stong morality. The only person to whom I have to justify my actions is myself, and I can be a very harsh critic. Why can few believers recognise this and accept that atheists can have morality achieved through experience and thoughtfulness for others?

[evildave]

My exposure to such people tends to indicate that THEY THEMSELVES lived the life of drugs and crime, before their "conversion" to become "born again".

The story is almost invariant, and goes a bit like this: "I was a druggy/alcaholic/criminal/etc. Then I let Christ into my life, and I cleaned up. Then I [backslid in some way]. Then [something scary happened, typically in a car], and I knew GOD was warning me! So now I am born again all-the-way!"

Then they simply assume everybody else is just like them.

As for the others who didn't start off as human garbage, they only deal with other believers, and the human garbage weak and desperate enough to look anywhere for change, even to a life of being a fundy.

It's the conclusions of small samples. Naturally, my own exposure is a "small sample", so don't treat it as the definitive description of fundy thinking.

[Darwin]

If you think about it,it´s not that black and white.

-How many people have committed crime or done this or that BECAUSE they were not religious? (atheist in particular)

-In how many a case,does something happen BECAUSE they did not subscribe to a religion?

-It is empirically proven that lots of things that can be considered bad objectively have been done in the name of religion(s) itself.

-How can one say that a life involving multiple sexual relationships or even toxins of some sort can not be found fulfilling to someone?

-And as a point that I´ve considered many a time before;
Could not we,if this were true,as well translate it like;"Well,you´re unable to make choises of your own,you´re basically a sack of scum and unless you live by these written rules,your true nature will unveil itself."

[Agammamon]

". . . a life spent on drugs, alcohol and multiple sexual relationships, does not fulfil many university students in any manner."

I think most people would agree (except maybe Keith Richards)that a whole life spent like that would not be fulfilling. Yet I don't know anyone who spent their 18-28's like that and regrets it.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Agammamon
". . . a life spent on drugs, alcohol and multiple sexual relationships, does not fulfil many university students in any manner."

I think most people would agree (except maybe Keith Richards)that a whole life spent like that would not be fulfilling. Yet I don't know anyone who spent their 18-28's like that and regrets it.

Hah, no kidding. That sums up my early 20's and it was a blast.
I don't think I could do it now, but it was fun while it lasted.
And I did it all without Jesus!!

[justsaygnosis]

Because they're indoctrinated to believe they're right.
Anyone who disgrees with them must be wrong.
Wrong equals immoral.

[evildave]

Actually, you might have something there.

When you have people who can't distinguish between fact, opinion and morality, who believe that they have the "ultimate right answer", it may be that they consider all other opinions about a matter to be "evil".

[Yahzi]

Does this mean that they would become anarchists if there were no consequences for their actions, and that the only thing keeping believers from running amok is the fear of divine retribution?
We must be prepared to seriously consider the truth of this assertion.

It is within the realm of possiblity that a huge segment of the population has never progressed beyond the first level of moral thinking (fear of punishment), and might actually be incapable of progressing beyond it.

[BillyJoe]

rustypouch,
(Why not rustynail?)

Originally posted by rustypouch
As an atheist, I feel that I have a very stong morality. Watch the ambiguity.....
Do you mean "in spite of my atheism....." or "because of my atheism....." or "regardless of my atheism....."?

Originally posted by rustypouch
The only person to whom I have to justify my actions is myself..... Why do you feel you need to justify your actions to yourself?

Originally posted by rustypouch
.....and I can be a very harsh critic. Why do you feel the need to be so hard on yourself?

Originally posted by rustypouch
Why can few believers recognise this and accept that atheists can have morality achieved through experience..... How does experience cause you to be moral?

Originally posted by rustypouch
.....and thoughtfulness for others? Why do you feel you need to be thoughtful of others?

regards,
BillyJoe.
(Devil's Advocate :cool: :D )

[Checkmite]

I think the logic they use is quite simple:

Morality comes from God
Atheists don't believe in God
So, atheists are immoral

Of course, many of them don't realize - or simply ignore - the fact that although they believe in God, they often aren't paragons of morality themselves. In addition, one of the apparent "perks" of being a believer is being able to decide exactly which morals one can choose to follow at any particular time, confident in the knowledge that they'll be forgiven; in other cases, they're able to take a certain moral - "Do not kill", for instance - and define situations in which that moral isn't necessarily binding.