European pyramids discovered

[Sir Arthur Mortal Coyle]

European Pyramids have allegedly been discovered, but is it wishful thinking?

A no holds barred fight to decide the outcome is required so:

In the red corner we have Semir Osmanagic, new-age philosopher and amateur archaeologist

And in the blue corner we have the Bosnian university mining and geology department, Mark Rose of America's Archaeological Institute, Professor Anthony Harding of Exeter University, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, and several Bosnian scholars.


http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1887835,00.html

Be amazed and like me bemused :boggled: So who'll win?

[MRC_Hans]

Always interesting. Amateur archeologists have foiled experts before, but:


Mr Osmanagic and his dozens of helpers have conducted satellite photography of the area,


They have WHAT? They have their own satellites? Or did they just look at Google Earth :rolleyes: ?


thermal inertia analysis reported to reveal faster heat loss than would occur with a hillside,


A hillside? Ehrm, just which hillside? Reference data, please. And explain why some hill cannot have a different heat loss and still be natural.


and radar research said to disclose the existence of straight and perpendicular tunnels inside the "pyramids".


Cool! What kind of radar is this? I mean, they have tried radar on the Egyptian pyramids, but it didn't disclose much (those pesky non-conductive rocks tend to not provide any distict echoes).


Excavations on the "pyramid of the moon" have revealed terraces of sandstone slabs with small channels built in at regular intervals, apparently a primitive drainage system, as well as at least one subterranean chamber with stone-built walls.


Nice, but how does this prove that the entire hill is artificial? This area has been inhabited since prehistoric times, so it's not that surprising to find anciant structures.


"Our working hypothesis [=wishful thinking] is that all this is before the end of the last Ice Age," said the adventurer. "We're looking for organic material, wood, charcoal or bones that we can carbon-date. I believe that the world's history is much older than they teach us."
(addition mine)

Hans

[Darat]

European Pyramids have allegedly been discovered, but is it wishful thinking?

A no holds barred fight to decide the outcome is required so:

In the red corner we have Semir Osmanagic, new-age philosopher and amateur archaeologist

And in the blue corner we have the Bosnian university mining and geology department, Mark Rose of America's Archaeological Institute, Professor Anthony Harding of Exeter University, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, and several Bosnian scholars.


http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1887835,00.html

Be amazed and like me bemused :boggled: So who'll win?

I'd be surprised that we hadn't notice them before if they have found some however I would not be surprised to learn that some ancient culture built them. After all the pyramids are the simplest and easiest "big" structures to build so are found throughout the world.

[MRC_Hans]

Sure enough, they're on Google Earth. It's a low res area, unfortunately, but they don't seem very regular, nor particularly "aligned with the heavens" (what does that mean, anyway? As long as they aren't dated, how can you determine their elignment with the heavens of their time?)

Hans

[Big Al]

It wouldn't surprise me if there were European pyramids, just as there are in South America. However, I don't see this as evidence for a pan-global community of builders.

What's so counter-intuitive about the pyramid shape? You build a low wall and then stand on it to build the next level. Then you stand on that level to build the next one, and so on. Thus each level is smaller than the last, so the pyramid shape comes naturally. It's a pretty damn' obvious way to make a large, stable structure.

[rebecca]

I blogged about it a few months ago here (http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=80) and here (http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=90).

The guy is a lunatic and I can't believe he's still getting attention.

[MRC_Hans]

Good coverage, Rebecca!

These are their "handmade" rocks, below. This leads me to announce a new and even more sensational discovery: The entire Danish island of Bornholm is hand-built!!! (at least the shape of the rocks there is very similar).

Hans :nope:

[MRC_Hans]

Now, this one looks man-made. So, surprise! There are some old houses in Bosnia. Not much pyramid scale over that one, tho'

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

And a high-tech tunnel ... or at least a hole in the rocks. Mmm, those rocks are conglomerate rocks, of water-ground stones .... there goeth yeh pyramid thesis, methinks.

You are right, Rebecca: Them folks are nuts.

Hans

[CFLarsen]

It wouldn't surprise me if there were European pyramids, just as there are in South America. However, I don't see this as evidence for a pan-global community of builders.

What's so counter-intuitive about the pyramid shape? You build a low wall and then stand on it to build the next level. Then you stand on that level to build the next one, and so on. Thus each level is smaller than the last, so the pyramid shape comes naturally. It's a pretty damn' obvious way to make a large, stable structure.

The pyramid is one of - if not the - easiest structures to build, especially if you want to build bigger than an ordinary house.

Think of children (OK, and some adults, too - I shall not name names (cough)) on the beach: They build...what? Basically pyramids. Just let sand fall down and, bingo, you have a pyramid. Shuffle together some sand and, bingo, you have a pyramid. You can erect rather impressive structures in a relatively short time. And you don't have to be taught to build it - it comes natural.

It is simple. It is stable. And you can start small and make it bigger as you go, if you like. Finding pyramids all over the world is not impressive, far from it - it is to be expected.

It is certainly not a sign of an impossibly advanced civilization.

[Sir Arthur Mortal Coyle]

It’s all becoming clear now, its not a Pyramid!

It’s Xenus happy holiday Volcano for those disorientated Thetans who just can’t seem to settle down.



Come on locals, you should be able to make a bundle of easy money off the Scientologists. :rolleyes:

I could do this new-age philosopher and amateur archaeologist lark. :)

[Maja]

I've seen an interview with Semir Osmanagić on TV and he was a nice and charming man, but definitely a nutcase. The funniest moment was when he talked about the names of his four "pyramids" -- he had named them the Sun Pyramid, the Moon Pyramid, the Dragon Pyramid and the Heart Pyramid -- and then he went on to claim, with a perfectly straight face, that the Heart Pyramid was a unique case in the whole world of a pyramid named after the heart. He tried to present the name, which he had made up himself, as a sensation. :(

He also showed some photographs of structures which he said were obviously man-made. Only one looked obviously man-made to me -- it was definitely a structure made of rectangular blocks. But he claimed to have found a surface covered with a "mosaic" of irregulary shaped tiles, and all I could see in the photograph of this "mosaic" was a large cracked flat rock.

[NobbyNobbs]

Sure enough, they're on Google Earth. It's a low res area, unfortunately, but they don't seem very regular, nor particularly "aligned with the heavens" (what does that mean, anyway? As long as they aren't dated, how can you determine their elignment with the heavens of their time?)

Hans

What would be really cool is using astronomy to see when (if ever) these "pyramids" did "line up with the heavens" and see later, through independant verification, if the dates match.

[ponderingturtle]

The pyramid is one of - if not the - easiest structures to build, especially if you want to build bigger than an ordinary house.


Sure, also look in china and there are some large earthen pyramids there as well, that in volume are much bigger than the great pyramid. Still to build mountain sized earthen pyramids you need a large population, I would expect monoliths and such, as much easier if somewhat more technicaly advanced than a big pile of dirt.

[ponderingturtle]

What would be really cool is using astronomy to see when (if ever) these "pyramids" did "line up with the heavens" and see later, through independant verification, if the dates match.

That seems a bit to easy to contrive any date you want and find some alignment that you can call significant. They have to line up with something, at some time of the year at some point it history. You would need to know what stars the creators concidered important first before you started looking.

[CFLarsen]

Sure, also look in china and there are some large earthen pyramids there as well, that in volume are much bigger than the great pyramid. Still to build mountain sized earthen pyramids you need a large population, I would expect monoliths and such, as much easier if somewhat more technicaly advanced than a big pile of dirt.

Apart from the pyramids in Egypt and in Central America, that's a pretty good description: A pile of either dirt or stones.

It doesn't sound so amazing, though.....

[ponderingturtle]

Apart from the pyramids in Egypt and in Central America, that's a pretty good description: A pile of either dirt or stones.

It doesn't sound so amazing, though.....

No there are a fair number of stone pyramids in asia as well, and lets not forget all the nubian pyramids. There are many pyramids made of cut stone

[LawnOven]

Hey, we have them in North America too.
Don't forget Cahokia; Largest Prehistoric Earthworks in North America; bigger than London at the time.

http://www.cahokiamounds.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Monks_Mound_in_July.JPG

[ponderingturtle]

Hey, we have them in North America too.
Don't forget Cahokia; Largest Prehistoric Earthworks in North America; bigger than London at the time.

http://www.cahokiamounds.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Monks_Mound_in_July.JPG

Are they pyramidal? I know many are animal shapes and thus not really pyramid, but am unfarmilier with the topography of cahokia.

[LawnOven]

Are they pyramidal? I know many are animal shapes and thus not really pyramid, but am unfarmilier with the topography of cahokia.


Oh yes, in a general sense. They have (had) angled sides; many of them were platforms for buildings; also burials.

An artists rendering:

http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/imagnat/cahokia.jpg

http://www.umsl.edu/~anttbaum/cahokiapainting.jpg

[Big Al]

It’s Xenus happy holiday Volcano for those disorientated Thetans who just can’t seem to settle down.

Come on locals, you should be able to make a bundle of easy money off the Scientologists. :rolleyes:

Sorry, Sir Arthur - Xenu will only blow those poor Thetans up with his hydrogen bombs, and we'll all end up more conflicted and neurotic when the confused little tykes crowd into us. There's no such thing as a happy holiday with nasty old Xenu.

And you can't make money out of a Scientologist - their beneficent "Church" grabs it all. Think of all the extra Dianetic auditing fees they'll get if this news gets out!

[Sir Arthur Mortal Coyle]

Sorry, Sir Arthur - Xenu will only blow those poor Thetans up with his hydrogen bombs, and we'll all end up more conflicted and neurotic when the confused little tykes crowd into us. There's no such thing as a happy holiday with nasty old Xenu.

And you can't make money out of a Scientologist - their beneficent "Church" grabs it all. Think of all the extra Dianetic auditing fees they'll get if this news gets out!


True, it's all so true ;)