Debunk Me. Now.

[SirPhilip]

According to this article (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=239982005), there is a correlation between index finger length and sexual fitness and aggression. Does this mean the upturned middle finger (connoting "F-ck you") has some type of subconscious association?

[HappyCat]

There very well may be a correlation, but that doesn't imply causation. If there is a correlation, I seriously doubt there is any sort of causal link.

[MWare]

http://graphics2.snopes.com/photos/risque/graphics/utahhouse2_small.jpg

In no way relevant, but a funny pic nonetheless.

[Nick Bogaerts]

According to this article (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=239982005), there is a correlation between index finger length and sexual fitness and aggression. Does this mean the upturned middle finger (connoting "F-ck you") has some type of subconscious association?

From your article, it seems that the correlation is between the ratio of the annular to the index and aggression, the middle finger has nothing to do with it. But yes, there is a definite sexual connotation to the middle finger.

[SirPhilip]

From your article, it seems that the correlation is between the ratio of the annular to the index and aggression, the middle finger has nothing to do with it. But yes, there is a definite sexual connotation to the middle finger. That's correct, my typing mistake. Let me clarify my original statement. Apparently, the ring/index finger correlates to fertility (http://human-nature.com/nibbs/02/manning.html), not the middle; although it's still a curious cooincidence people close the only known visual indication of estrogen/testosterone ratio into a fist and upturn the longest finger. :p

[0oTITANo0]

It would be if it were a universal symbol. But its not. It is only culturally significant to the U.S. (where I assume that it originates) and any cultures that have imported it. Other cultures have hand gestures that are offensive which are meaningless here in the U.S. For instance I have heard ( although it may not be true) that the "OK" gesture in the U.S. - Index and thumb forming a ring with the remaining three fingers outstretched - is a rude gesture in the middle east as it is thought to represent a sphincter.

For my 2 cents, rude hand gestures share a common thread in that they are deliberate configurations of the fingers in an unnatural or unmistakable way. When it comes to rude hand gestures really nothing was left except the middle finger. Thumbs up was taken, the index finger already does a lot of talking so the message might not come across, I personally cannot extend my ring finger without holding my other fingers down and I imagine enough other people are the same way that flashing any hand signal with your ring finger will never catch on and finally using the pinky to throw an insult just won't be taken seriously. ;) People generally don't extend only their middle finger during the routine of life, so its a pretty obvious statement when someone does. So, from where I stand the bird is more about what fingers were available to sendi a clear message than bone structure ratios.

[RSLancastr]

For instance I have heard ( although it may not be true) that the "OK" gesture in the U.S. - Index and thumb forming a ring with the remaining three fingers outstretched - is a rude gesture in the middle east as it is thought to represent a sphincter.And the hand gesture which represents "peace" or "victory" in the US, is the equivalent of flipping someone off in other countries.

Seems like there was some US president (Bush senior, maybe?) who made the mistake of making that gesture at some European crowds from his car some years back.

[Foolmewunz]

Where's Shemp when you need him?
Q: Is there a name for Curly's multi-snapping of fingers and then hitting the other hand with the previously 'snapping' hand?

I was in Santiago de Chile once and used it as a goofy 'hurry-up guys' type of gesture, and nearly got knifed! It's evidently a local hand-sign for "your mother is far too familiar with goats" (or I'm just guessing that to lure an answer from Shemp....). :D

[c4ts]

According to this article (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=239982005), there is a correlation between index finger length and sexual fitness and aggression. Does this mean the upturned middle finger (connoting "F-ck you") has some type of subconscious association?

It looks like a penis on a conscious level. Other than that, I can't say. I've never seen a subconscious, so I wouldn't know.

[Nick Bogaerts]

It would be if it were a universal symbol. But its not. It is only culturally significant to the U.S. (where I assume that it originates) and any cultures that have imported it.

Why do you assume it is (a) recent and (b) of American origin?

[valis]

And the hand gesture which represents "peace" or "victory" in the US, is the equivalent of flipping someone off in other countries.

Seems like there was some US president (Bush senior, maybe?) who made the mistake of making that gesture at some European crowds from his car some years back.

Nixon was the US President best known for using the V sign.

Of course some non US figures have used it in the same way.

http://www.uk-in-oz.com/revitalising-st-george/images/churchill.jpg

[T'ai Chi]

I remember seeing a program on the history channel of some American POWs who, when photographed by the other side, used the middle finger in the pics, so the Americans back home seeing the pics would know that something was wrong.

[SirPhilip]

Nixon was the US President best known for using the V sign.

Of course some non US figures have used it in the same way.

http://www.uk-in-oz.com/revitalising-st-george/images/churchill.jpg "V" also is symbolic of female genetalia; gosh, it all makes sense now what Dick (sic) was trying to convey to the public. :p

[Dancing David]

There is no statement of the correlation's amount, so it could be insignificant.

[Elizabeth I]

And the hand gesture which represents "peace" or "victory" in the US, is the equivalent of flipping someone off in other countries.

Seems like there was some US president (Bush senior, maybe?) who made the mistake of making that gesture at some European crowds from his car some years back.

Nope, it was W. and family making the "hook 'em Horns" gesture during his second inaugural parade:

"OSLO, Norway -- Many Norwegian television viewers were shocked after watching President Bush and family apparently saluting Satan during the U.S. inauguration.

The president and his family were photographed lifting their right hands with their index and pinky fingers raised, much like a horn.

In reality, it was just a sign of respect for the University of Texas Longhorn Band, whose fans are known to shout out 'Hook 'em, 'horns! at athletic events.

But in much of the world, those "horns" are a sign of the devil. Among Nordics, the hand gesture is popular among death and black metal groups and fans."

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=129665

Of course, those of us who went to other Texas universities consider it a rude gesture as well. :)

[blutoski]

According to this article (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=239982005), there is a correlation between index finger length and sexual fitness and aggression. Does this mean the upturned middle finger (connoting "F-ck you") has some type of subconscious association?

There's a practice called 'data mining,' where you establish a goal to find two things that are related by looking at a mess of measurements. If your threshold is 95% confidence, then on average one in twenty correlations will be due to pure chance, by design. So all you have to do is measure five things and see if they relate to each other: one pair will probably come out as 'related' by chance alone.

Then the next step is to invent some type of plausible connection. In this case, 'hormones in the womb.' Yeah. That's it.

Step three is to publish, and lie back in the warm limelight of fame.

Step four is when others try to replicate the study, but fail, and the hypothesis is rejected. This doesn't get so much press coverage.

[c4ts]

And the hand gesture which represents "peace" or "victory" in the US, is the equivalent of flipping someone off in other countries.

Seems like there was some US president (Bush senior, maybe?) who made the mistake of making that gesture at some European crowds from his car some years back.

V facing forward is fine. V with the back of your hand facing out is rude.

[SirPhilip]

There's a practice called 'data mining,' where you establish a goal to find two things that are related by looking at a mess of measurements. If your threshold is 95% confidence, then on average one in twenty correlations will be due to pure chance, by design. So all you have to do is measure five things and see if they relate to each other: one pair will probably come out as 'related' by chance alone. Then the next step is to invent some type of plausible connection. In this case, 'hormones in the womb.' Yeah. That's it. Step three is to publish, and lie back in the warm limelight of fame. Step four is when others try to replicate the study, but fail, and the hypothesis is rejected. This doesn't get so much press coverage. That makes sense. Unfortunately, I've decided this is something I'm going to believe no matter what. :p

[Kopji]

The wiki article on this is particularly informative. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_finger

[Yahzi]

I thought our "flipping off" was derived from the English, who invented it to taunt the French. After Angicourt, the French swore to cut the first two fingers off of any English longbowman they captured (hence rendering the use of a bow impossible), so sticking your two fingers up at them was a way to dismiss their threat and offer one of your own.

Edit: Doh, the Wiki article is pretty definitive on that myth. Learn something new every day!

[fuelair]

According to this article (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=239982005), there is a correlation between index finger length and sexual fitness and aggression. Does this mean the upturned middle finger (connoting "F-ck you") has some type of subconscious association?

No, it is quite concious as well as symbolically clear if done correctly.:)