So did Oswald act alone or what?

[EGarrett]

I know little to nothing about the JFK assassination, except that it's the subject of a bunch of conspiracy theories. Is the "Grassy Knoll" stuff just woo-woo? What is the 'sensible' position on this and what is the 'loose change equivalent?'

[Gravy]

Sensible position: Oswald acted alone.
LC equivalent: The Scholars for Truth killed JFK.

Yes, the grassy knoll stuff is woo. But you may get some takers here. KC440 is a newcomer who's fallen hard for the JFK woo.

[Crungy]

I know little to nothing about the JFK assassination, except that it's the subject of a bunch of conspiracy theories. Is the "Grassy Knoll" stuff just woo-woo? What is the 'sensible' position on this and what is the 'loose change equivalent?'

LC = Oliver Stone's JFK

Sensible positions = mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

My noob status does not allow to post direct links, so please add the above with the usual internet preface.

[bob_kark]

If you get the History Channel, watch Unsolved History; The Magic Bullet. It thrashes the magic bullet and grassy knoll theories.

ETA: They actually recreate Oswald's shot nearly perfectly. (The bullet ran out of energy at the end which was likely due to the temperature of the ballistics gel at the time.)

[Gravy]

I heartily second Crungy's McAdams link http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

Best JFK assassination debunking source on the net.

[CurtC]

It's clear that Oswald was the only person to do any shooting in Dealey Plaza on that day. This has been established beyond any doubt for any sane person anyway.

What is somewhat more open for discussion is whether Oswald planned this all himself or whether someone put him up to it. I feel pretty strongly that all the data points to him doing it himself, but I admit there can be reasonable debate about it.

[Nevermore]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):
Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
The Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. the conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive. The Committee further concluded that it was probable that:

four shots were fired
the third shot came from a second assassin located on the grassy knoll, but missed.(Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

[bob_kark]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):
[/LIST](Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

If you watch the Unsolved History episode I mentioned earlier, it shows why the acoustic evidence you're referring to was faulty. They assumed that the recording used to provide this evidence was being recorded in a different area than it actually was. Basically, they had mistaken one motorcycle policeman who made the recording for another. In addition, the episode analyses the picture on the grassy knoll of "badge man" and determines that if it was a real person, he would have been standing on a very tall ladder in the parking lot rather than standing at the wall.

[EGarrett]

I looked at those sites and I just watched the Zapruder Film.

It's funny, you get so caught up in dry browsing that you forget it's a video of a man getting brutally murdered in front of his wife.

But...while trying to get it out of my head...to my untrained eye, seeing it for the first time, it just looks like a sniper was shooting at him.

Either way, I'm not sure I needed to see that.

[Gravy]

Nevermore, the McAdams site covers this in depth.

[Crungy]

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations concluded in 1979 (after a three year investigation):
[/list](Synopsis above quoted from Wikipedia)

In 1994, a prison inmate named James Files claimed to be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

Last count of admitted JFK gunmen that I remember was somewhere around 25. I'm surprised that Mark Karr didn't admit to the fact.

The House Committe's acoustical study was later revealed to be flawed, when it was discovered that another officer's radio recording was included in the anaylized data. This issue is shown in Nova's 1988 special on the JFK assassination.

Now, here's my goofy and embarassing link to that particular issue. The gentlemen who discovered this audio error, is a professional drummer. A few years back, I started to rediscover the classic rock of my youth. One of those genres I enjoyed as a teen was prog rock (don't laugh). Searching the net, I found that the best forum to discuss ELP, was the Greg Lake forum (since taken down). It turns out that the drummer dude who discovered that audio glitch is a hardcore Carl Palmer fan, and was a regular there! He's also a very hardcore born again christian and was prone to all sorts of weird anti Christian conspiracy rants. I remember a particular doozy about the Halloween conspiracy!

[firecoins]

Did Oswald act alone? He was known on occasion to do Shakespearean monologues.

[Calcas]

If you get the History Channel, watch Unsolved History; The Magic Bullet. It thrashes the magic bullet and grassy knoll theories.

ETA: They actually recreate Oswald's shot nearly perfectly. (The bullet ran out of energy at the end which was likely due to the temperature of the ballistics gel at the time.)
"The Magic Bullet" was also the show that converted me to the lone gunman answer.

Unlike the complete preposturous nature of these 911 kooks, where thousands of people would have needed to collaborate (in secret), invisable missliles are used and airliners and passengers simply vanish, the JFK assassination conspiracy had some "plausibility" to it.

Even LBJ was said to have gone to his grave believing there was some kind of conspiracy. But, alas, the evidence did support that Oswald acted alone.

[Almo]

I still suspect there were other people involved, at least in the planning. Not sure about anything else, since I haven't read enough about it.

[bob_kark]

I still suspect there were other people involved, at least in the planning. Not sure about anything else, since I haven't read enough about it.
You don't know much about it but you think there's a conspiracy?

[defaultdotxbe]

You don't know much about it but you think there's a conspiracy?
isnt that how all conspiracy theories work?

[pgwenthold]

If you watch the Unsolved History episode I mentioned earlier, it shows why the acoustic evidence you're referring to was faulty. They assumed that the recording used to provide this evidence was being recorded in a different area than it actually was.

Not only in the wrong location, but at the long time (this has been the most debated aspect - the timing). All indications are that the "gunshots" seen on the dictabelt are more than a minute after the actual shooting. Moreover, as you say, the supposed "open mike" was not even in Dealey Plaza. Bowles has a lot of insight in this regard

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles.html

He claims that if you actually LISTEN to the recordings from the open mike (as opposed to worry about analyzing wave patterns), you can tell very easily that there is no way the mike was in Dealey plaza (in the form of officer McLain) at the time of the shooting. Among the things:

1) based on the engine rpms from the motorcycle, you can tell it is a three wheeler, and not a two wheeler. Indeed, the Dallas police had a lot of three wheelers for a lot of things. By analyzing engine speed, Bowles can tell things like, how fast the motorcycle was moving

2) You can hear the sirens from the actual motorcade, racing by the open-mike on its way to the hospital. Doppler effects indicate that it passes by (approaches, and then goes away). McLain caught up to the motorcade and stayed with them, so the sirens shouldn't have gone away.

Bowles claims the open-mike was at the TradeMart, where the president was supposed to be going after the parade.

Lastly, even if it were McLain with the open mike (it wasn't), they put him in the wrong spot for the acoustic analysis:

McLain quoted on Bowles site:
Now, the Committee staff Report says that I was from 80 to 90 feet west of Houston, west bound on Elm Street when the President was hit with the last shot. That's completely wrong! I never left Houston Street until after the chief said for us to go to the hospital and for someone to check the overpass. The agent didn't get onto the back of the limousine until some seconds after the last shot. I saw that happen while I was still on Houston Street, so while I only heard one shot, I could not have been on Elm Street until after the shots had been fired. Had the Committee staff told me what they had in mind, it would have made a difference in my testimony. They were at least deceitful if not outright dishonest with me.



Bowles even knows whose mike it was that was stuck open, but doesn't name him
THE MOTORCYCLE WITH THE STUCK MICROPHONE
Several three-wheel officers, assisted by relief officers, were assigned to work major intersections on the motorcade route along Cedar Springs Road and on Harwood Street to Main Street. One of these, Officer "K," completed his assignment about 12:23 (Channel 1) and left on his 2 1/4 mile trip to the Trade Mart where he was due to report to the motor pool by 12:30 p.m.

Shortly after he left his intersection en route to the Trade Mart, his transmitter stuck open for brief intervals during which the sound of the engine suggests a traveling speed of 25 to 30 MPH. During the 12:28 (Channel 1) time frame his mike opened again for 17 1/2 seconds. The engine speed still appears to be near 30 MPH.

Then, at the projected time of 12:29:10 (Channel 1) his mike stuck open once again and remained open for more than five minutes. During the first minute or two his speed held steadily near 30 MPH. Then, the engine sound slowed to an irregular speed for a little less than a minute.

Officer "K" left his corner with 6 1/2 minutes to travel two and one quarter miles to he Trade Mart. There was heavier traffic, a stop sign and three signal lights along the initial portion of his route. Estimating his overall trip at 25 MPH, he had no trouble arriving on time.

He went to the Trade Mart and passed time listening to a two-wheel motorcycle tuned to Channel 2. Not all three-wheel motorcycles had been furnished with two-channel radios. He, 'K," doesn't remember moving his motorcycle after he arrived. At any rate, it isn't possible to determine absolutely whether the recorded sounds of engine changes represent activity of the subject motorcycle or of other motorcycles arriving and departing, as they were doing at the motor pool. At one point in the recording the sound does seem more like the engine of a two-wheel rather than a three-wheel motorcycle.

"K" was using a relief or spare motorcycle that day, one which was not equipped with a Channel 2 radio, and one which had experienced frequent radio trouble.

Shortly after the motorcade passed the Trade Mart, Officer "K" can be heard to speak but his message cannot be understood. Moments later he started off on his motorcycle, en route to Parkland. Apparently, in checking his radio, listening to find the opportunity to transmit, he found that his radio was stuck in the transmit mode.

At Parkland, after the immediate urgency had subsided and almost everyone had departed, Officer "K" commiserated with other officers over a couple of his personal misfortunes during the day. One of these problems was that his radio had stuck open during the emergency.

[bob_kark]

isnt that how all conspiracy theories work?
Well, most CTers think they know quite a bit about it... However, in reality, I suppose you're right.

[Loss Leader]

Oswald acted alone. Ironically, it was the 9/11 Deniers who caused me to see that. Watching a conspiacy theory evolve even when the evidence of an event was as plain as 9/11 showed me that people will invent conspiracies for their own psychological needs regardless of their validity.

[CurtC]

It turns out that the drummer dude who discovered that audio glitch is a hardcore Carl Palmer fan, and was a regular there! He's also a very hardcore born again christian and was prone to all sorts of weird anti Christian conspiracy rants.
According to my foggy recollection of this, didn't the guy who figured out that the acoustic analysis was bogus, do it by listening to a vinyl record insert into a girlie magazine (like Gallery IIRC)?

ETA: Yes, I was right for once! Here is Steve Barber's own account of it. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/barber.htm)

[Crungy]

According to my foggy recollection of this, didn't the guy who figured out that the acoustic analysis was bogus, do it by listening to a vinyl record insert into a girlie magazine (like Gallery IIRC)?

ETA: Yes, I was right for once! Here is Steve Barber's own account of it. (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/barber.htm)

Yes, I'm speed postin' at work and forgot to add that! He's quite a character, but sadly his life seemed to have taken a sad downturn at some point.

As of last year, Steve was still part of a group researching the acoustic issues surrounding the JFK case. He said that his group was supposed to issue their lastest findings soon. Anyone heard anything?

[Almo]

You don't know much about it but you think there's a conspiracy?

Note I said "suspect." It's a suspicion, or a hunch. Not a full-blown CT.

[bob_kark]

Note I said "suspect." It's a suspicion, or a hunch. Not a full-blown CT.
Ok, you don't know much about it but you suspect a there's conspiracy?

[Nevermore]

Last count of admitted JFK gunmen that I remember was somewhere around 25 ...

Can you point me toward a source on this? I'd be interested in reading more about it.

Thanks.

[Crungy]

Can you point me toward a source on this? I'd be interested in reading more about it.

Thanks.

This was from an article I read back in the early 90s. During that time I've must have read over a hundred articles, plus some books, on the case. I tried a quick google, and couldn't come up with the specific article. What I do remember is, the article didn't list all 20 something self proclaimed assassins, instead it just named 4 or 5 of the 'murderers', along with a brief discription of them. The article was a broad overview of the JFK assassination, and the 'confessed assassin' portion was just a small part of the story. I also recall that the article stated that some of them were dead. I believe that most of them were in jail, and all proclaimed that they were a top secret special forces type hired by either some branch of the miltary or mob. If I remember correctly, the article then went on to state, that these were actually just two bit loser career criminal types.

[negativ]

I'll admit, I used to be a huge believer in JFK conspiracy theory, thanks in no small part to my [much] older brother. For the record, he won't be bothered to even pay attention to the 9/11 CTists. He enjoyed Abby's Conspiracy Wars video, but has expressed complete disinterest in anything regarding the Truthers and the debunking thereof. I guess that's OK.

I still can't buy the "jet effect" explanation for the "back-and-to-the-left" bit. I now think it's more likely that it has to do with the tension of Kennedy's back brace suddenly being unopposed by the muscles that of course slackened at the moment his brain was obliterated.

When I first moved to the DFW area, one of my first stops was of course Dealey Plaza and the grassy knoll, etc. My first impression was that the actual scene is much smaller in real life than it had appeared to be in all the photos I had seen. I haven't fired a rifle in decades, but there was a time (and this is not an Internet Tough Guy brag, it's just the facts, ma'am) when I could hit a running prairie dog at ~50 yards with a Marlin bolt-action .22 caliber rifle using only iron sights. (I could also hit them with a Ruger .223 caliber Mini-14, but the end result was a bit more gross than I cared for at that age). I do not have the least bit of difficulty believing that Oswald could have hit JFK with a scoped rifle at the distance of a mere 60 yards. It's hardly a feat, and frankly I'm surprised that he took 3 shots to do it.

A much easier and closer shot could have been made as the motorcade was coming down Houston street, directly towards the TSBD. Why would a well-orchestrated conspiracy dictate that the "patsy" pass up the easy shot in favor of a slightly harder one which would "necessitate" multiple shooters thereby multiplying the complexity of the coverup? Why fear being seen by the approaching motorcade if everyone who isn't In On It has been intimidated or ridiculed into silence?

I could go on for ages, but frankly I need to get back to World of Warcraft. :Banane39:

For a very long time I'd been coming to reevaluate my JFK conspiracy leanings. I couldn't really express why (some of the JFK debunkers leave a lot to be desired, Gerald Posner being a prime example), but it just sort of started not to smell right to me. The final nail in that coffin was the never-ending Loose Change thread on this forum. There are a lot of parallels between the two conspiracy cults, and the blistering light of logic and reason I've seen here over the past several months contributed a lot of tools I've used to slice through that particular bit of BS occupying my mental real estate.

A sincere 'thank you' to the contributors; you know who you are.:cool:

[Gravy]

According to my foggy recollection of this, didn't the guy who figured out that the acoustic analysis was bogus, do it by listening to a vinyl record insert into a girlie magazine (like Gallery IIRC)?

Er, I just subscribe for the assassination recordings.

[jhunter1163]

On the McAdams site, there's something called Rashomon to the Extreme. I think the number of people alleged to be directly involved in the shootings there is in the high 60s. That site is an EXCELLENT resource for debunking all CTs Kennedy-related.

[Dog Town]

YES!

[VBU2C5]

Years ago I remember watching a special on the JFK assasination on PBS, and they actually sat a cadaver in a chair and fired the same type rifle at the correct angle into the back of it's head. The head reacted exactly as JFK's head did in the Zapruder film, it's been so long I don't recall all of the details, but it covered the motorcycles audio and just about everything else. I think the final verdict was one gunman.

[Foolmewunz]

The CT that will not die. Why?

It reminds me of one of the first influences I had in the realm skepticism and skeptical enquiry.... Josephine Tey's "The Daughter of Time". In it, her detective hero is laid up with a broken leg and entertaining himself looking at pictures of famous historical personages. He comes across a conundrum that one of the people perceived to be completely vile in English history has what he perceives to be a decent, sincere and honest face. Being a detective, this launches him on further study, and he goes through all kinds of research to learn that Richard III had been totally converted to 'bad guy' by Shakespeare.

More important, as he's thinking of writing the whole thing up and straightening out the record, his research reveals that this had already been done several times through the last couple of centuries. in fact, when viewed in historical context, Shakespeare wrote for patrons and those patrons were Tudors, who detested Richard. Once the Tudor era ended, there was already a movement to straighten out the record on Richard III, but it never took hold. Shakespeare's play is brilliant and it became the standard version of "the evil king and the two poor little princes".

The point? No one wants to believe that Richard III was not the hunch-backed foul dastard that Shakespeare portrays him as. I think that regardless of how often it's debunked, there are people out there who've been believing in the grassy knoll, mafia link, bay of pigs, CIA, etc... for forty years and they're no longer looking for an investigation and prosecution. They're looking for confirmation of one tenet of their faith that they've held to for half or more than half of their lives.

It takes a willingness to shake off the cobwebs and say, "Dammm, did I really believe all that crap?", to be able to reverse yourself on such a seminal emotional experience as the JFK assasination was. I was able to do it - I was a true believer for years. But when the preponderance of evidence convinced me that Oswald could have and most likely did do it alone, I began to question not just the official versions, but the "evidence" of the CT crowd.

[CurtC]

Last count of admitted JFK gunmen that I remember was somewhere around 25 ...Can you point me toward a source on this? I'd be interested in reading more about it.
Not exactly that, but the headline from an issue of The Onion:

KENNEDY SLAIN BY CIA, MAFIA, CASTRO, LBJ, TEAMSTERS, FREEMASONS
President Shot 129 Times from 43 Different Angles

[The Painter]

I don’t know the answers. Evidence not found or misinterpreted, cover ups, etc. The thing that bothers me the most about Oswald acting alone is the fact that Oswald was killed. The first rule in a conspiratorial assassination is, kill the target. The second rule is kill the assassin.

[defaultdotxbe]

I don’t know the answers. Evidence not found or misinterpreted, cover ups, etc. The thing that bothers me the most about Oswald acting alone is the fact that Oswald was killed. The first rule in a conspiratorial assassination is, kill the target. The second rule is kill the assassin.
its always been my theory (and this may be as wooish as any others) that the mafia killed oswald to make it look like they killed kennedy, to scare off RFK

[bob_kark]

I don’t know the answers. Evidence not found or misinterpreted, cover ups, etc. The thing that bothers me the most about Oswald acting alone is the fact that Oswald was killed. The first rule in a conspiratorial assassination is, kill the target. The second rule is kill the assassin.
Yes, but who kills the assassin's assassin?

[defaultdotxbe]

Yes, but who kills the assassin's assassin?
pulmonary embolism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/pulmonary embolism) apparently, wonder how much that cost them

BTW anyone else know jack ruby's real name was jacob rubenstein? those j000s are at it again!

[bob_kark]

Everyone knows Vinnie "Pulmonary" Embolism was a mafia hitman, just like Jack "Ruby" Rubenstein. Two clots, straight to the pulmonary artery, typical gangland style execution.

[Mancman]

On another forum I'm on there's a nutter who believes in every conspiracy theory.

Currently he's claiming that JFK had a small wound on the front of his head and a large exit hole at the back. He refuses to acknowledge this drawing:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dox2big.jpg

Is there anything else I can hit him with?

[Bell]

On another forum I'm on there's a nutter who believes in every conspiracy theory.

Currently he's claiming that JFK had a small wound on the front of his head and a large exit hole at the back. He refuses to acknowledge this drawing:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dox2big.jpg

Is there anything else I can hit him with?

Try to find the clip from Penn & Teller [rule8] about conspiracy theories. They use a similar gun and shoot at a pumpkin, which 'explodes' at the other site re the entry, and falls to the side the bullit came from.

ETA: I touched the drawing :boxedin:

[negativ]

Try to find the clip from Penn & Teller [rule8] about conspiracy theories. They use a similar gun and shoot at a pumpkin, which 'explodes' at the other site re the entry, and falls to the side the bullit came from.

I've seen similar examples offered up before, and frankly I think they're a bit weak. There is not much similarity between a pumpkin and a human skull. A pumpkin's interior is mostly air**, has nothing analogous to bone, and is not connected to anything else. Using the pumpkin model, we should expect a solid blow from a baseball bat to send one's head flying. There are better explanations for Kennedy's motion after the head shot which don't involve a shooter from the front.


** OMG!! The WTC towers were ALSO mostly air... obviously JFK was killed by means of controlled demolition. WHAT DID JFK KNOW ABOUT THE 9/11 PLOT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Bell]

I've seen similar examples offered up before, and frankly I think they're a bit weak. There is not much similarity between a pumpkin and a human skull. A pumpkin's interior is mostly air**, has nothing analogous to bone, and is not connected to anything else. Using the pumpkin model, we should expect a solid blow from a baseball bat to send one's head flying. There are better explanations for Kennedy's motion after the head shot which don't involve a shooter from the front.


** OMG!! The WTC towers were ALSO mostly air... obviously JFK was killed by means of controlled demolition. WHAT DID JFK KNOW ABOUT THE 9/11 PLOT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

What JFK knew about 9/11 is addressed in the presidents doodle book.

Source (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64492).

[CurtC]

its always been my theory (and this may be as wooish as any others) that the mafia killed oswald to make it look like they killed kennedy, to scare off RFK
I like it! It's about the most plausible JFK conspiracy theory out there!

Of course, there's one little detail that completely kills it. At the time the police were scheduled to take Oswald out of the jail and load him in the car, Jack Ruby was at the Western Union office wiring some money to an employee. They have accurate clocks and keep thorough records.

After he did that, he made his way to the police station, where the police were running late with the transfer of Oswald, so Ruby just happened to be there at the time Oswald came out. All the evidence of Ruby's shooting of Oswald points to a spur-of-the-moment impulse by an unstable hothead. Ruby also left his dog in his car. This was no planned knock-off.

[defaultdotxbe]

I like it! It's about the most plausible JFK conspiracy theory out there!

Of course, there's one little detail that completely kills it. At the time the police were scheduled to take Oswald out of the jail and load him in the car, Jack Ruby was at the Western Union office wiring some money to an employee. They have accurate clocks and keep thorough records.

After he did that, he made his way to the police station, where the police were running late with the transfer of Oswald, so Ruby just happened to be there at the time Oswald came out. All the evidence of Ruby's shooting of Oswald points to a spur-of-the-moment impulse by an unstable hothead. Ruby also left his dog in his car. This was no planned knock-off.
ive never been on the recieving end of a debunking before, it feels....different...

[defaultdotxbe]

I've seen similar examples offered up before, and frankly I think they're a bit weak. There is not much similarity between a pumpkin and a human skull. A pumpkin's interior is mostly air**, has nothing analogous to bone, and is not connected to anything else. Using the pumpkin model, we should expect a solid blow from a baseball bat to send one's head flying. There are better explanations for Kennedy's motion after the head shot which don't involve a shooter from the front.


** OMG!! The WTC towers were ALSO mostly air... obviously JFK was killed by means of controlled demolition. WHAT DID JFK KNOW ABOUT THE 9/11 PLOT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
well actually penn and teller duplicated someone elses experiment using a melon wrapped in tape

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6422842824047450841

fast forward to 27:00 for the kennedy/melon demonstration, although if you got the time id watch the whole thing, its a good show

ETA: "NOBODY CAN CONVINCE ME" -Beret Dude ;)

[Oliver]

I've seen similar examples offered up before, and frankly I think they're a bit weak. There is not much similarity between a pumpkin and a human skull. A pumpkin's interior is mostly air**, has nothing analogous to bone, and is not connected to anything else. Using the pumpkin model, we should expect a solid blow from a baseball bat to send one's head flying. There are better explanations for Kennedy's motion after the head shot which don't involve a shooter from the front.


** OMG!! The WTC towers were ALSO mostly air... obviously JFK was killed by means of controlled demolition. WHAT DID JFK KNOW ABOUT THE 9/11 PLOT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Personally? I think John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a good man with a very heartedly Mind and Heart. So i let him his rest in peace after all these years since the event.

[mamapajamas]

Did Oswald act alone? He was known on occasion to do Shakespearean monologues.

JFK did keep saying, "We must act." That was one of his favorite lines.

[Ducky]

On another forum I'm on there's a nutter who believes in every conspiracy theory.

Currently he's claiming that JFK had a small wound on the front of his head and a large exit hole at the back. He refuses to acknowledge this drawing:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dox2big.jpg

Is there anything else I can hit him with?

You owe me a night's sleep now. Thanks.

[Mancman]

You owe me a night's sleep now. Thanks.

Sorry! :blush:

[EGarrett]

On another forum I'm on there's a nutter who believes in every conspiracy theory.

Currently he's claiming that JFK had a small wound on the front of his head and a large exit hole at the back. He refuses to acknowledge this drawing:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dox2big.jpg

Is there anything else I can hit him with?From the looks of it...that first hit was pretty effective.

:)