Is France in "Civil War"?

[SteveGrenard]

Muslim Violence Increasing in France
October 06, 2006 09:07 AM EST



By S. Zieve - Although this summer’s widely-covered Muslim riots in France have ended, daily violence against France’s police continues. An average of 14 officers per day are said to be injured by Muslim radicals, with 2,500 police already wounded in 2006.


Calling the violence an undeclared “Intifada”, the Telegraph.co.uk reports: “…a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.

“It said the situation was so grave that it had asked the government to provide police with armored cars to protect officers in the estates, which are becoming no-go zones.”

Muslim attacks on police are growing on a daily basis and police face attacks each time they attempt to arrest someone in Muslim neighborhoods.

Secretary General of the Action Police trade union Michel Thoomis said:

"We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists. This is not a question of urban violence any more, it is an intifada, with stones and Molotov cocktails. You no longer see two or three youths confronting police, you see whole tower blocks emptying into the streets to set their 'comrades' free when they are arrested. We need armoured vehicles and water cannon.

They are the only things that can disperse crowds of hundreds of people who are trying to kill police and burn their vehicles."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/[/url]
main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/wmuslims05.xml

[Darat]

How many French people have been killed in this suggested civil war?

[SteveGrenard]

How many French people have been killed in this suggested civil war?




You would have to ask the head of the French police syndicat for the answer to that since he made the claim. Is the mortality figure germane to the problem? Do you define a civil war by this?

[senorpogo]

I'm in a state of civil war with myself, orchestrated by an irrational love of fried foods. This is not a question of just "a snack now and then" any more, it is a binge-itada, with fries and buffalo chickenwings. You no longer see two or three onion rings confronting me, you see whole fried onion towers emptying into my mouth to join their 'comrades' where they are digested in my belly. We need health food and exercise.

[Rob Lister]

Do you define a civil war by this?

Generally, yes.

[Skeptic]

Calling the violence an undeclared “Intifada”

So what's the problem? We all know the Intifada is a brave and wonderful and just and honest struggle for freedom.

I suggest giving the Muslims in France their own state. That'll bring peace, for sure.

Oh wait.

[Darat]

You would have to ask the head of the French police syndicat for the answer to that since he made the claim. Is the mortality figure germane to the problem? Do you define a civil war by this?

So you haven't researched this?

[steverino]

So you haven't researched this?

What is your point Darat? This may not be in a literal sense a civil war, but it IS a conflict and it IS uncivil, and a conflict between two peoples in one country. I will stick my neck way out on this French crisis and say where there is smoke there is (or will soon be) fire.

It is also an intriguing paradigm, a warning to other nations-The French are getting kicked in the balls for being tolerant and celebrating multi-culturalism. Mark my words, ball-kicking will escalate to police-killing sooner than later, and they will learn the hard way that, sadly, no good deed goes unpunished.

[Nick Bogaerts]

A ciil war is what is happening in France and is not happening in Iraq. I'm glad I'm in the middle of a civil war, it's much quieter than when I'm not. So far, no one in France has tried to kill me. Perhaps because I'm a foreigner.

[SteveGrenard]

So you haven't researched this?

I asked you if civil war is defined by its death toll? Or are there other factors which define such a conflict?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war

[SteveGrenard]

Generally, yes.

What's the number then when this becomes a civil war?

[CFLarsen]

What's the number then when this becomes a civil war?

Shouldn't you be the one to answer this?

[Darat]

I asked you if civil war is defined by its death toll? Or are there other factors which define such a conflict?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war

You said - "You would have to ask the head of the French police syndicat for the answer to that since he made the claim. " to my question regarding the number of dead French in this "civil war" - since you don't have an answer I presumed you hadn't done any research into this.

[SteveGrenard]

Well what is your answer then. Do you feel that a particular mortality has to be reached for a conflict to be called a civil war? And yes, I did not make the
claim. The head of the police union did. He called it a civil war. If as you imply a certain number of deaths must occur for this to be a civil war then it would be he to back up his claim which according to the press reports is based on 2,500 French police officers wounded by French moslems. This is
in my mind, and by any measure, an extraordinary number of police officers to be wounded by a single group and may be the justification for the use of the term "civil war." If you disagree, claiming there must be X number of deaths, please let us know.

[Darat]

What is your point Darat?


My point was in response to Steve's lack of apparent research into the matter he seemed to want to discuss.


This may not be in a literal sense a civil war, but it IS a conflict and it IS uncivil, and a conflict between two peoples in one country. I will stick my neck way out on this French crisis and say where there is smoke there is (or will soon be) fire.


What are your views on what the "fire" will be and when will it happen?


It is also an intriguing paradigm, a warning to other nations-The French are getting kicked in the balls for being tolerant and celebrating multi-culturalism. Mark my words, ball-kicking will escalate to police-killing sooner than later, and they will learn the hard way that, sadly, no good deed goes unpunished.

Really? Yet France is an EU country that caused a storm by not allowing for instance people to wear "religious" dress in public schools. France is actually (in my opinion) very well known for not "celebrating multi-cultural-ism". Indeed so "anti-not-French" are they that the state is trying to stamp our phrases such as "weekend" and "email" being imported into the official French language.

France (again in my opinion) is really not the country to point to if you want an example of "being tolerant and celebrating multi-culturalism" causing terrible problems.

[Darat]

Well what is your answer then. Do you feel that a particular mortality has to be reached for a conflict to be called a civil war? And yes, I did not make the
claim. The head of the police union did. He called it a civil war. If as you imply a certain number of deaths must occur for this to be a civil war then it would be he to back up his claim which according to the press reports is based on 2,500 French police officers wounded by French moslems. This is
in my mind, and by any measure, an extraordinary number of police officers to be wounded by a single group and may be the justification for the use of the term "civil war." If you disagree, claiming there must be X number of deaths, please let us know.

I presume this was to me?

I haven't implied that any number of deaths are required - I have simply asked you a question that I thought would be very easy to answer if you had researched this matter to any degree i.e. if a civil war is happening what is the number of deaths?

[steverino]

Really? Yet France is an EU country that caused a storm by not allowing for instance people to wear "religious" dress in public schools. France is actually (in my opinion) very well known for not "celebrating multi-cultural-ism".

This is a tricky putt Darat but I'll take a swing at it. The issue here is a time-line one. Maybe the non-Islamic French started seeing problems and feared being over-taken by Islamic immigrants and as a non-militant stop-gap measure imposed the head dress restrictions. This as a reaction to the smoke. The "fire" I refer to would be Moslems living in France killing French police and non-Muslims there. When? Let's see. My crystal ball says before March is when France will meet its Waterloo.

[Nick Bogaerts]

The "fire" I refer to would be Moslems living in France killing French police and non-Muslims there. When? Let's see. My crystal ball says before March is when France will meet its Waterloo.

Look mate; if one day the chars Leclercs suddenly start rolling down the streets of Ferney-Voltaire and pull down the statue of the patriarch, I'll be sure to keep you informed. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Darth Rotor]

Is France in a civil war?

No, next stupid question?

SG, the LA Watts riots and the King riots were not signs of a civil war, they were signs of civil unrest.

There's a difference.

DR

[Giz]

Is France in civil war?

I'm guessing no, as they haven't surrendered.

[marksman]

To whom does France surrender in a civil war? Wouldn't that mean that some French would win a war unaided by other nations?! Doesn't that violate a law of phsyics somewhere?

[SteveGrenard]

To whom does France surrender in a civil war? Wouldn't that mean that some French would win a war unaided by other nations?! Doesn't that violate a law of phsyics somewhere?

This might help answer your question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

[malbui]

Look mate; if one day the chars Leclercs suddenly start rolling down the streets of Ferney-Voltaire and pull down the statue of the patriarch, I'll be sure to keep you informed. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
If that happens, I'll stroll down the road and watch. There's not much going on around Ferney the rest of the time so we could do with the entertainment.