Can someone fill me in on what's happening in the Congo?

[Questioninggeller]

Can someone fill me in on what's happening in the Congo? Send me some links, I know about the diamond stuff, but I read this (http://www.msnbc.com/news/926478.asp) and realized I really know nothing about it.

Thanks.

[Checkmite]

In 1997, Laurent Kabila, a rebel leader, overthrew the authoritarian government of Zaire under President Mobutu Seko. He was aided by the former military of Rwanda, which fled that country when the government there fell. When Mobutu was overthrown, Kabila established the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in former Zaire.

In late 1998, Kabila tried to purge the ex-Rwandan military from the DRC. The governments of Burundi, Uganda, and once-again friendly Rwanda came to the aid of the former Rwandan army (under the guise of various rebel movements) and supported them. Meanwhile, Namibia, Angola, Chad, and Zimbabwe have sent their armies as loyalists to support Kabila's government. This conflict has its roots in deep tribal hatred - the loyalists being primarily Hutus, and the rebels being primarily Tutsis.

Does that suit your needs?

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
In 1997, Laurent Kabila, a rebel leader, overthrew the authoritarian government of Zaire under President Mobutu Seko. He was aided by the former military of Rwanda, which fled that country when the government there fell. When Mobutu was overthrown, Kabila established the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in former Zaire.

In late 1998, Kabila tried to purge the ex-Rwandan military from the DRC. The governments of Burundi, Uganda, and once-again friendly Rwanda came to the aid of the former Rwandan army (under the guise of various rebel movements) and supported them. Meanwhile, Namibia, Angola, Chad, and Zimbabwe have sent their armies as loyalists to support Kabila's government. This conflict has its roots in deep tribal hatred - the loyalists being primarily Hutus, and the rebels being primarily Tutsis.

Does that suit your needs?

You forgot toy add that a few years ago, Laurent was assainated by his body guard and his son, Joseph was chosen to step into daddys boots.

The whole thing is still a mess. Un/fortunately diamonds arent as important to the US economy as oil so it will remain that way.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


You forgot toy add that a few years ago, Laurent was assainated by his body guard and his son, Joseph was chosen to step into daddys boots.


It hasn't changed the overall scheme of things.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
In 1997, Laurent Kabila, a rebel leader, overthrew the authoritarian government of Zaire under President Mobutu Seko. He was aided by the former military of Rwanda, which fled that country when the government there fell. When Mobutu was overthrown, Kabila established the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in former Zaire.

In late 1998, Kabila tried to purge the ex-Rwandan military from the DRC. The governments of Burundi, Uganda, and once-again friendly Rwanda came to the aid of the former Rwandan army (under the guise of various rebel movements) and supported them. Meanwhile, Namibia, Angola, Chad, and Zimbabwe have sent their armies as loyalists to support Kabila's government. This conflict has its roots in deep tribal hatred - the loyalists being primarily Hutus, and the rebels being primarily Tutsis.

Does that suit your needs?

Kabila inflamed the situation with the help of his European self-hating allies by allowing squatters to ransack the farms along the frontier in Zaire (Congo).

What this did was drive the Congo from being one of the leading producers of food in the continent of Africa to a non-producing state, opening up all the internal populations to mass starvation. As the 'white' farmers in Congo pleaded with Kabila to stop the squatting and destruction of the farms, Kabila and European self-hating whites celebrated it and allowed it to continue.

Europeans and Kabila, therefore, are candidates for crimes against humanity and should be tried at the UN war crimes tribunal in the Hague.

I am pleased to see European troops in the Congo fighting there. The Europeans created this deadly problem--let them fix it.

JK

[Checkmite]

The Europeans did create this problem; but they had sown the seeds for this conflict a long time ago. It was actually during the colonial "race for Africa" period of the 18th and 19th centuries. The Dutch, French, British, and Germans sought to take advantage of Africa's immense but unrealized wealth. Europe managed to "infiltrate" Africa, and hung around long enough to divide the continent among themselves, slicing it up into various nations and private fiefdoms, and installing their own leaders. Before Europe could follow through and begin developing Africa, however, they simply lost interest and abandoned it around the time of the ultimate fall of the British empire. Without such an adversary, the other nations had no motivation to expend the resources necessary to develop the continent. Some hung on longer than others, but all eventually left.

Instead, they left it to their installed African leaders to maintain the diamond, lumber, and ivory industries already underway there, and simply send those resources up the railroad to Europe. Without the backing of the European governments, though, many of those African rulers could not maintain power, and were overthrown. Now, in any given central African country, there are 3 or more independent groups that claim "rights" to the land - the original Tutsis, their enemies the Hutus, and the Colonial powers the Europeans installed. These groups constantly fight, overthrowing each other over and over again.

[c0rbin]

Before Europe could follow through and begin developing Africa, however, they simply lost interest and abandoned it around the time of the ultimate fall of the British empire.

I don't know if "lost interest" is accurate, as the 19th century saw the start of modern warfare blazing across Europe. Sustained control of another continent might not have been within their capabilities with the strife at home flaring up every thirty years culminating in WWI.

[Hypocolius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Kabila inflamed the situation with the help of his European self-hating allies by allowing squatters to ransack the farms along the frontier in Zaire (Congo).

What this did was drive the Congo from being one of the leading producers of food in the continent of Africa to a non-producing state,

I'm sorry, but what? Congo/ Zaire/ DRC has never been organised enough to bne a leading exporter of food. I've lived in Zambia for most of my life (bordering Zaire to the south) and have never seen a single product of any description which was marked "Product of Zaire". Not one. Nothing. It has been a disaster from day one. Zaire's only export is crap music.

Joshua Korosi is right in saying that the problems were originally created by the Europeans, but maybe not in the way he means. The main problem is the imposition of artificial boundaries between countries, with no respect whatsoever for local conditions. Zaire, for example, was the creation of King Leopold of Belgium, who had fantasies of creating a Belgian empire in Africa. He couldn't even persuade his own government to back him, so for years it remained his own private fiefdom. Yes, Zaire has immense wealth, but it is also an immense country, and very difficult to get around.



Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
The Dutch, French, British, and Germans

And Portuguese, Belgians, Italians and Spanish,

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
Before Europe could follow through and begin developing Africa, however, they simply lost interest and abandoned it around the time of the ultimate fall of the British empire

The British Empire ended in about 1947, most African countries didn't get independance until about the 60's. It was WWII that did for it, and Africa. None of the European countries with colonies in Africa (or anywhere else) could afford such luxuries after the war, so independance was inevitable. It wasn't a question of losing interest, it was just plain economics.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Hypocolius
I'm sorry, but what? Congo/ Zaire/ DRC has never been organised enough to bne a leading exporter of food. I've lived in Zambia for most of my life (bordering Zaire to the south) and have never seen a single product of any description which was marked "Product of Zaire". Not one. Nothing. It has been a disaster from day one. Zaire's only export is crap music.


The Congo was creating so much food in the 1990's that almost no mouths there knew hunger. It was the classic example of African success in self-reliance. I am not talking about exports but a self-sustaining African economy, something rare in Africa last century (if at all).

However, since the food was grown on white citizen's farms (citizens of the Congo but ancestors of whites in Europe), the self-hating Europeans fed into Kabila's sociopathological instincts by hinting that it would be 'cool and fashionable' if all the blacks in the Congo killed all the white farmers and stole all the land.

In the 1990's that is what happened too with the European nod. Millions of squatters who claimed they were the remnants of the old Zaire army (a full 99% weren't and were all around the age of 15 - 20 years old) joined Kabila in his Marxist-European promise to get the land.

In a matter of years, the non-Zaire veterans (who claimed they were veterans) raped, murdered and plundered the farms, turning the Congo into an immediate dependent nation-state begging for international food aid, where it once had been the gem of Africa that produced more food than it could consume.

That satisfied Kabila's European handlers, especially the Neo-Marxist Secretary General Kofi Annan and the hard-line communist Nelson Mandela in South Africa. They felt it was more important for the white citizens of the Congo (born and raised there for generations) to be stripped of their land by millions of angry men who never contributed to the health of the country, than it was to have Congo remain a successful, viable nation-state.

I am so pleased the French are in that gateway to hell now. It was nation-states like France that allowed that to happen to the Congo. It was so important for them to run out white citizens, to kill them, to murder and rape them, to burn their farms down, that for every casualty the Europeans take it is a form of justice.

Europe has the blood of millions of Congolese citizens on their hands, sacrificed to the alter of political correctness just to eliminate the white minority presence from Africa. All African nation-states are lands of terror and hell because of political correctness and self-loathing so-called intellectuals in Europe.

What Africa needs is solid leadership, a full light infantry and mechanized infantry invasion supported by Air Cavalry helicopter gunships and B-52 bombers equipped with napalm. That is what Africa needs. Once the trash is taken out, perhaps over a period of decades the communists can be eliminated and Africans will finally know peace and prosperity. Running the white citizens out of the continent and eliminating multiculturalism in Africa may make self-loathing European whites feel better about the historical guilt associated with white activity in Africa in history, but it will only cause tens of millions of current Africans to suffer horrendous deaths from war, disease and starvation.

That is the case now in the Congo.

JK

[arcticpenguin]

There is also some pygmy eating going on in the Congo: http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=20087&highlight=pygmies

[Flo]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The Congo was creating so much food in the 1990's that almost no mouths there knew hunger. It was the classic example of African success in self-reliance. I am not talking about exports but a self-sustaining African economy, something rare in Africa last century (if at all).

However, since the food was grown on white citizen's farms (citizens of the Congo but ancestors of whites in Europe), the self-hating Europeans fed into Kabila's sociopathological instincts by hinting that it would be 'cool and fashionable' if all the blacks in the Congo killed all the white farmers and stole all the land.

In the 1990's that is what happened too with the European nod. Millions of squatters who claimed they were the remnants of the old Zaire army (a full 99% weren't and were all around the age of 15 - 20 years old) joined Kabila in his Marxist-European promise to get the land.

In a matter of years, the non-Zaire veterans (who claimed they were veterans) raped, murdered and plundered the farms, turning the Congo into an immediate dependent nation-state begging for international food aid, where it once had been the gem of Africa that produced more food than it could consume.

That satisfied Kabila's European handlers, especially the Neo-Marxist Secretary General Kofi Annan and the hard-line communist Nelson Mandela in South Africa. They felt it was more important for the white citizens of the Congo (born and raised there for generations) to be stripped of their land by millions of angry men who never contributed to the health of the country, than it was to have Congo remain a successful, viable nation-state.

I am so pleased the French are in that gateway to hell now. It was nation-states like France that allowed that to happen to the Congo. It was so important for them to run out white citizens, to kill them, to murder and rape them, to burn their farms down, that for every casualty the Europeans take it is a form of justice.

Europe has the blood of millions of Congolese citizens on their hands, sacrificed to the alter of political correctness just to eliminate the white minority presence from Africa. All African nation-states are lands of terror and hell because of political correctness and self-loathing so-called intellectuals in Europe.

What Africa needs is solid leadership, a full light infantry and mechanized infantry invasion supported by Air Cavalry helicopter gunships and B-52 bombers equipped with napalm. That is what Africa needs. Once the trash is taken out, perhaps over a period of decades the communists can be eliminated and Africans will finally know peace and prosperity. Running the white citizens out of the continent and eliminating multiculturalism in Africa may make self-loathing European whites feel better about the historical guilt associated with white activity in Africa in history, but it will only cause tens of millions of current Africans to suffer horrendous deaths from war, disease and starvation.

That is the case now in the Congo.

JK

Care to give your sources for that fable ?

:rolleyes:

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The Congo was creating so much food in the 1990's that almost no mouths there knew hunger. It was the classic example of African success in self-reliance. I am not talking about exports but a self-sustaining African economy, something rare in Africa last century (if at all).

However, since the food was grown on white citizen's farms (citizens of the Congo but ancestors of whites in Europe), the self-hating Europeans fed into Kabila's sociopathological instincts by hinting that it would be 'cool and fashionable' if all the blacks in the Congo killed all the white farmers and stole all the land.

This sounds very much like the recent history of Zimbabwe, [edit: except for Kabila] and not much like the recent history of the Congo.

MattJ

[Flo]

Originally posted by aerocontrols


This sounds very much like the recent history of Zimbabwe, and not much like the recent history of the Congo.

MattJ

Yet another example of the reasons why I consider JK as a very bad imitation of a clown ...:D

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Flo


Yet another example of the reasons why I consider JK as a very bad imitation of a clown ...:D

Keep sending troops in, Flo. That is the best thing France has done in decades. :D

Keep sending in more troops. You guys deserve it.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by aerocontrols


This sounds very much like the recent history of Zimbabwe, [edit: except for Kabila] and not much like the recent history of the Congo.

MattJ

By the time I am done, everyone reading this thread will learn a lot of why Africa is broken, not just the Congo. I will consider it a very special psyops assignment.

Viva la France!

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Flo
Care to give your sources for that fable ?

:rolleyes:

Fable? Well, give me your side of the story, the French side.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Come on Flo, I am waiting for you to "enlighten" me. Tell me why I shouldn't hope the Congo = Algeria for France.

JK

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Hypocolius

The main problem is the imposition of artificial boundaries between countries, with no respect whatsoever for local conditions.

You're absolutely right, I should have emphasized that more.

If you like, you can think of the situation as the same thing that's happened/is happening in the Balkans.

[Hypocolius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


By the time I am done, everyone reading this thread will learn a lot of why Africa is broken, not just the Congo.

LOL! JK, the main reason I joined this forum is that I was lurking one day and saw one of your pronoucements on Africa that was so twisted and wrong that it jerked me out of my lethargy and forced me to register. I have to thank you for that, so thanks. I don't know where you get your info on Africa from, but it's usually bogus.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Hypocolius


LOL! JK, the main reason I joined this forum is that I was lurking one day and saw one of your pronoucements on Africa that was so twisted and wrong that it jerked me out of my lethargy and forced me to register. I have to thank you for that, so thanks. I don't know where you get your info on Africa from, but it's usually bogus.

Well, share you wisdom with me. Enlighten me. Give me all the information that you have on Africa.

Better yet, tell me about the government in the UAE and the current conditions there.

JK

[Hypocolius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well, share you wisdom with me. Enlighten me. Give me all the information that you have on Africa.

How long have you got?


Better yet, tell me about the government in the UAE and the current conditions there.

JK

OK, the government here is undemocratic, autocratic, hydromatic... Funnily enough though Ras al Khaimah had a bit of a palace coup this week, which livened things up a tad. Tales of tanks in the streets etc, which hasn't happened here for a while.

As for current conditions, pretty good as long as you have a job and don't break any laws, though it can be difficult to know when you've broken a law or not. One friend of mine has been deported in the last 3 years, and I know at least two people who've spent time in jail for alcohol offences (oddly you don't get deported when you've served your time). There's no tax, the pay is still good (though not the funny-money that was being handed out in the '70s and '80s), though it does mean you have to live in a desert which isn't so wonderful. Crime is a real rarity, it happens, but not often at all, and I have not seen or smelled any drugs at all in three years. I'm sure they're here, but the penalties are so harsh that you'd have to be totally nuts to go looking for it.

So, to recap; no crime, no drugs, good pay, no taxes, no vote.

All in all, better than South Africa, which is where I was before here.

What's it like where you live?

:D :D

[Jon_in_london]

Who here thinks that JK thinks that DRC is Zimbabwe?

[Jon_in_london]

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/hhanson/241/congotimeline.html

1957-1959 Political groups emerge as Belgians allow city level elections, these all have an ethnic/regional dimension, except Lumumba’s MNC.

1960 Independent government a fragile coalition of Lumumba and Kasavubu, whose ethnic/regional base was the Bas-Congo, people jealous of others’ participation in the Kinshasa economy.

1961 Mobutu takes over briefly, Lumumba assassinated with participation of the CIA, who feared his strong labor orientation and feared he would ally Congo with the Soviet bloc.

The institutional basis of the state disintegrates, the army revolts, Katanga, the copper mining province, with Lubumbashi in it, secedes. Secession is strongly supported by the 31,000 Europeans living there, and tacitly supported by the Belgian state, that supplies military, economic, and technical support. Mercenaries are recruited in Belgium to create a Katangan army.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well, share you wisdom with me. Enlighten me. Give me all the information that you have on Africa.


Refer to my post above.

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/hhanson/241/congotimeline.html



Thanks.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Hypocolius


How long have you got?



OK, the government here is undemocratic, autocratic, hydromatic... Funnily enough though Ras al Khaimah had a bit of a palace coup this week, which livened things up a tad. Tales of tanks in the streets etc, which hasn't happened here for a while.

As for current conditions, pretty good as long as you have a job and don't break any laws, though it can be difficult to know when you've broken a law or not. One friend of mine has been deported in the last 3 years, and I know at least two people who've spent time in jail for alcohol offences (oddly you don't get deported when you've served your time). There's no tax, the pay is still good (though not the funny-money that was being handed out in the '70s and '80s), though it does mean you have to live in a desert which isn't so wonderful. Crime is a real rarity, it happens, but not often at all, and I have not seen or smelled any drugs at all in three years. I'm sure they're here, but the penalties are so harsh that you'd have to be totally nuts to go looking for it.

So, to recap; no crime, no drugs, good pay, no taxes, no vote.

All in all, better than South Africa, which is where I was before here.

What's it like where you live?

:D :D

no drugs. sounds boring *scratches UAE off my list of places to get good bud* ;)