Plane Crashes Into NYC Building

[marksman]

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15223976/)

No word yet if it is terrorism or an accident.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Terrorism

[bozothedeathmachine]

Probably accident.

Tiny fire, relatively light damage, residential building during working hours...so either accident, or opening salvo.

[geni]

Hmmm it would not be the first case of someone deliberate crashing a light aircraft into a building.

[Ziggurat]

Weather reports (http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USNY0996.html) indicate it's cloudy, but with 7 mile visibility, it's hard to imagine this was simple pilot error. So it's probably either terrorism or mechanical failure. It was a residential building, which suggests to me that there might not have been any occupants at the crash location. Let's hope so.

[Cylinder]

Fixed-wing in Manhattan. I guessing a terrorist one-off.

[bozothedeathmachine]

Fixed-wing in Manhattan. I guessing a terrorist one-off.

If that's the case I have to say it's a horrible choice of target. Is the resident a rabbi? Kosher pickle magnate? Perhaps a spurning lover?

[marksman]

If it were terrorism, it's an odd choice for targets. It's not a landmark. It's not near a landmark. It's a residential building being struck during office hours. I suspect accident, and I write this even as I hear the sirens rushing uptown to the scene of the accident.

I hope casualties are minimal.

[Cylinder]

Today is Oct. 11, BTW. Yes, I know al Qaeda is not known for dates. Eyewiteness reports say one wing dropped fairly sharply which sounds like a stalled wing.

[rikzilla]

Crazy guy flys plane into building...it's been done before. There was a nut who did it at the White House; a nutty kid who did it in Tampa right after 9/11. They're getting all kinds of conflicting reports....it's a helicopter...no a light plane...no a multi-engine plane...I imagine the the conspiracy theorists are alreadyl saying that it was a "black helicopter".

Sure hope no one in the building was harmed...

-z

[HarryKeogh]

I'm guessing either the Jews or our government has orchestrated this incident which will affect the psyche of all Americans for years to come...ooh, lunch time!

[slingblade]

Weather reports (http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USNY0996.html) indicate it's cloudy, but with 7 mile visibility, it's hard to imagine this was simple pilot error. So it's probably either terrorism or mechanical failure.

Or the pilot was incapacitated. Stroke, heart attack, etc.


It was a residential building, which suggests to me that there might not have been any occupants at the crash location. Let's hope so.

NBC says there's a hospital on the lower floors.

[casebro]

Murder/suicide? Pilot taking his ex-wife with him by crashing in to her apartment?

[Skeptic]

Light aircraft hitting nondescript residential building during working hours? If it's a terrorist attack, it's a very poor one. I'm guessing accident and/or an attempt at murder/suicide by jilted lover (or something similar).

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Today is Oct. 11, BTW. Yes, I know al Qaeda is not known for dates. Eyewiteness reports say one wing dropped fairly sharply which sounds like a stalled wing.

If you subtract 1 from 10/11, you get 9/11! :eek:

I wonder if the President had advanced knowledge of this? I heard that all the Jews had left the building earlier this morning.

[Grammatron]

Murder/suicide? Pilot taking his ex-wife with him by crashing in to her apartment?

I'm not a pilot, but how hard would it be to crash such a plane into a small apartment building?

[Cylinder]

NORAD is deploying combat air patrols over major US cities. Maybe one of our metropolitan members could peek outside and report.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

There are reports that President Bush was reading to school children in Florida.

[bozothedeathmachine]

Fixed-wing in Manhattan. I guessing a terrorist one-off. If that's the case I have to say it's a horrible choice of target. Is the resident a rabbi? Kosher pickle magnate? Perhaps a spurning lover?
Light aircraft hitting nondescript residential building during working hours? If it's a terrorist attack, it's a very poor one. I'm guessing accident and/or an attempt at murder/suicide by jilted lover (or something similar).


If you're going to paraphrase, at least give credit.

[rebecca]

I'm not a pilot, but how hard would it be to crash such a plane into a small apartment building?

Well, it's a 50-story building. I wouldn't exactly call it small.

[shemp]

I'm amazed at how much worthless speculation there is in this thread. It's clearly the work of the Illuminati.

[Marquis de Carabas]

:mad: This is no laughing matter, people. Kaz might be trapped in an elevator shaft in there!

Oh, wait. That would be a laughing matter, after all. Carry on.

[Skeptic]

If you're going to paraphrase, at least give credit.

OK, OK, mea culpa...

[slingblade]

I'm amazed at how much worthless speculation there is in this thread. It's clearly the work of the Illuminati.

You should see the Loose Change forum.

At this point, if the building collapses, it will be from controlled demolition, just like 9/11, and will be used to shore up the lie about WTC7 collapsing from damage, when we all know it was deliberately destroyed.

If the building doesn't collapse, it is proof that buildings don't fall down when planes hit them.

Lose/lose Loosers.

[firecoins]

I'm not a pilot, but how hard would it be to crash such a plane into a small apartment building?
It isn't hard. Planes go up and down the East River.

This is not that far from the UN but far enough away to realize it wasn't a target.

I believe it could be a terror attack. Someone who just wanted to hit a building not caring which one.

[Evolver]

Is Cheney hiding yet?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Breaking news: CNN is reporting that the plane belonged to Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=117756).

[HarryKeogh]

The plane was registered to NY Yankee Corey Lidle. Could be he was flying home for the off-season but unknown if was on board at this time.

interesting.

[Beerina]

They're now saying the plane is registered to Corey Lidel, a New York Yankees pitcher who pitched against the Tigers this week.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The plane was registered to NY Yankee Corey Lidle. Could be he was flying home for the off-season but unknown if was on board at this time.

interesting.

Consider yourself SCOOPED!!! :p

[The Central Scrutinizer]

They're now saying the plane is registered to Corey (sp?), a New York Yankees pitcher who pitched against the Tigers this week.

YOU TOO!!!! Don't mess with cub reporter Jimmy Olson!

[Skeptic]

Boy, the conspiracy theorists are going to have a ball (no pun intended) with THIS one.

Was he flying the plane? If so that probably rules out the "pilot had heart attack" possiblity.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I am reporting that the building collapsed in a controlled demolition.

[SteveGrenard]

There are reports that President Bush was reading to school children in Florida.

There were reports that Rudy Guiliani and Bernard Kerik just happen to be walking by --- no wait a minute, that was the London underground bombing where they happened to be at the time.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Unconfirmed reports say that Lidle recently converted to Islam, beheaded his wife live on the BBC before take-off and kicked his co-pilot out for bringing a six-pack of beer.

[HarryKeogh]

Unconfirmed reports say that Lidle recently converted to Islam, beheaded his wife live on the BBC before take-off and kicked his co-pilot out for bringing a six-pack of beer.

I heard that someone likened his pitching arm to a gun and a Dane overheard this and killed him without any warning whatsoever.

[Marquis de Carabas]

How do you like his high heat now?

[HarryKeogh]

If only he posted better stats to make this a legitimate tragedy like Thurman Munson's crash.

[Ziggurat]

I heard that someone likened his pitching arm to a gun and a Dane overheard this and killed him without any warning whatsoever.

:solved2

[slingblade]

Boy, the conspiracy theorists are going to have a ball (no pun intended) with THIS one.

Was he flying the plane? If so that probably rules out the "pilot had heart attack" possiblity.

Various posters:


His passport was found on the street below!!! There you go. Unbelievable, what will they find next, his drivers license?


joke right?


No joke MSNBC reported they found Cory Lidle's passport.


You need your passport to fly around in the U.S., even as an ID?


i'm thinking if thats true ... perhaps he was flying back from canada.


or .. its ******** and its to support the finding of the terrorists passport from 911

OMFG THEY DID FIND HIS PASSPORT!!!!
wtf....how can paper survive....w..t..f..
and yea he was in the plane

:eye-poppi

[Marquis de Carabas]

ESPN radio reporting he was in it and is now, fairly obviously, not returning to the mound.

[Jocko]

How do you like his high heat now?

I've heard of a pitcher going inside before, but never that way.

[Cleon]

:(

[Ziggurat]

ESPN radio reporting he was in it and is now, fairly obviously, not returning to the mound.

Oh, I disagree. I think he's quite definitely returning to the mound. Permanently.

:duck:

[Darth Rotor]

Hi, pilot experience and for your consideration.

Dumb luck. There I was, standing in McDonalds saw CNN, took a seat and watched.

CNN has some facts already wrong. I counted 10-16 floors above crash area, which was a three floor zone as best I could tell from the monitor. The "20th floor of 50 story building" is incorrect, as crash was 10-16 floors low. Hard to due to the building being a beveled, ziggurat type top that allows for a few more floors of garden apartments . . . Also, not able to see where building meets ground from the camera angles. Report was he took off from Teterboro.

Looking down the East River from the TV view, weather not a factor. Ceiling looked to be at least 1000 feet. This is important, as pilot was (reported) not on an instrument flight plan. You need 1000/3 for VFR. The East River has a VFR corridor (I have flown it, late 90's). Wish I had the Terminal Area Chart to show you where I am talking about.

Typically, you have to stay below 800', or at 500' on that corridor to avoid conflicting with La Guardia traffic. To enter the corridor, I recall the need for a squawk (IFF code) from New York Approach, details fuzzy in my memory, then switch to the VFR advisory freq to deconflict "see and avoid" with othe VFR traffic in the corridor.

An eye witness who was (reported) a private pilot (CNN called him an amateur pilot in usual disregard for facts) had just got on the phone and described what he saw as he went over a bridge. (Guessing bridge that crosses the East River at about 52d street. Name escapes me: Tri Borough? ) He said the plane was maneuvering eratically just before impact. From where he sat, plane went behind a/the (didn't understand the words) building and then the smoke/explosion blossom came out.

Marvell Scott, (name familiar, once a baseball or basketball player?) was interviewed a few minutes later. He is now a WABC sports anchor in New York. He saw the plane briefly from the building he was in, which is across the street from the crashed into building. Hyperbole aside, his observations included nose high pitch, apparent avoidance of his building, and a loud crash, which Marvell scurried across to go and see. (Having digested all this, he went to find a news crew, as best I can fathom.) His description was lucid, compared to some witness reports.

CNN claims tower was not in touch with plane. No matter, they would not have been. IIRC, 72d street is well outside (north of) the five mile circle from La Guardia, so he'd have been on the VFR deconfliction frequency. Forget the VHF numbers. (110. something, IIRC, but that might have been the Hudson River VFR freq) "See and avoid" is pilot resonsibility in most VFR corridors, and you usually call on the freq when you enter the corridor to let pilots slower, faster, or coming the other way know that they need to look for you. No idea what rules have changed in the Manhattan area since 9-11.

I see five scenarios, some of which have been proposed by posters above.

1. Heart Attack, or other medical malfunction, erratic control, impact. Likely. Young guys (juiced perhaps?) not immune to heart attack.

2. Engine failure, frantic "aw crap" reaponse as he loses lift/energy and fails to find a place to land. Possible attempts to get to Central Park to land, crash building is West of the River, and the corridor, as is Central Park. However, that scenario would argue for a glancing blow on a building as he tries to glide down 72 street in an attempt to find the Park. (Low odds)

With the river right there to ditch into, not betting the odds on above scenario. Not everyone would do as I would have done and ditched in the river under an engine failure in that situation, since not all persons have benefit of dunker training, etc. )

Also likely, still puzzled as pilot's decisions.

3. Control malfunction. Jammed control or snapped control cable for elevator of aileron. Low odds, though the eratic maneuvering may point to that.

4. The lover/revenge/suicide deal. Funny that others came up with that, Hollywood has corrupted us all! :D

5. Deliberate attack for reasons that vary: very low odds.

6. The Neo Cons, of course! :p They were delivering 4' rods with 3" centers . . . by plane . . . yeah, that's the ticket!

NORAD of course has launched fighters. This incident allows them to see if their procedures and response times are within the zone desired.

Note: NORAD were not able to order a pre emptive launch, only a reaction.

All I have to offer as of this moment.

ETA: That VFR corridor goes past Yankee Stadium. Weird thought about Lidle: one last look at the stadium before he ends it all? I sincerely hope not. Ouch.

DR

[firecoins]

The Queensborgh bridge. Triborough is in the 150's of Manhattan by the Bronx.

[shemp]

It seems like things just get more and more bizarre. You couldn't make this stuff up. I'm really sorry this happened to him and the others who were killed. And even as a Red Sox fan, I wish that the Yankees had beaten Detroit so maybe this wouldn't have happened. (On the other hand, if it had been the Evil Emperor Steinbrenner... well, a Red Sox fan can only go so far.)

[The Mutha]

CNN reporting that the FBI is saying the pitcher guy was the only person in the plane.

[joobie]

when he played for the phils the brass was always trying to get him to stop flying, to which he replied he'd rather fly than pitch.

[Darth Rotor]

The Queensborgh bridge. Triborough is in the 150's of Manhattan by the Bronx.


Thanks. Sorry about crappy memory.

DR

[fuelair]

There are reports that President Bush was reading to school children in Florida.

It's just too easy, I'll let this one alone.

[The Mutha]

Hopefully, somebody got in touch with this guy's loved ones before they found out he's dead on TV...

[Darth Rotor]

Hopefully, somebody got in touch with this guy's loved ones before they found out he's dead on TV...
Sadly, NOK rules like the ones we use in the military are not usually honored by the media. :mad:

DR

[fuelair]

You should see the Loose Change forum.

At this point, if the building collapses, it will be from controlled demolition, just like 9/11, and will be used to shore up the lie about WTC7 collapsing from damage, when we all know it was deliberately destroyed.

If the building doesn't collapse, it is proof that buildings don't fall down when planes hit them.

Lose/lose Loosers.

Naaah, it's gotta be a tactical nuke. Carried by the helicopter several people said they saw. The plane is just a plant. I am clearly talking out of my rectum. Oh wati!, I'm a Cter so I always talk out of my rectum. Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh! Huh? What! Man what a nightmare that was!

"Submitted for your approval from a random guy who just happens to be wearing a black suit and dark sunglasses."

[SteveGrenard]

All the Mayor said was that the plane took off from Teeterboro Airport andf was on radar, was seen circling the Statute of Liberty, sightseeing obviously,
and then proceeded up the East River and was lost on radar at about the 59th Street Bridge. It may have fallen below radar altitude at that point so there is no radar record of it left turning over into the city at E 72nd Street.

The mayor also said two people were on board, the student pilot and his instructor. He said the pilot had 75 hours. He would not identify either of them
in spite of the fact the press already said Corey Lidle was on board and probably flying it.

When asked about the safety of the airpsace over Manhattan the mayor said small planes and choppers are allowed and said this was per FAA regulations.

(This policy may have to be revisited?)

[Darth Rotor]

All the Mayor said was that the plane took off from Teeterboro Airport andf was on radar, was seen circling the Statute of Liberty, sightseeing obviously,
and then proceeded up the East River and was lost on radar at about the 59th Street Bridge. It may have fallen below radar altitude at that point so there is no radar record of it turning over into the city at E 72nd Street.

The mayor also said two people were on board, the student pilot and his instructor. He said the pilot had 75 hours. He would not identify either of them
in spite of the fact the press already said Corey Lidle was on board and probably flying it.

When asked about the safety of the airpsace over Manhattan the mayor said small planes and choppers are allowed and said this was per FAA regulations.

(This policy may have to be revisited?)
1. No reason to revisit policy. The VFR corridors work. They have been working for decades, and with nearly no accidents. It is trivially easy to avoid hitting a building while flying the VFR corridor.
2. Since the aircraft is below the height of the buildings, it would have been in what is called ground clutter.
3. 75 hours is a low time pilot. If he had a malfunciton, odds of him being behind the aircraft (mentally) are high, and a whole host of scenarios open up as possible causes.

DR

[marksman]

My prediction:
alcohol was involved.

[Snide]

Dang, Baseball Reference is quick.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lidleco01.shtml

[Darth Rotor]

My prediction:
alcohol was involved.
Why do you suggest that? Is this the old John Denver rumor revived?

DR

[marksman]

Because it was a joy ride in the middle of the afternoon involving a sportsman whose season was ended and was effectively unemployed until next Spring. Many people travel North at this time to see the foliage.

The idea that leisure and alcohol might be related isn't an extraordinary claim. But it's pure speculation on my part.

[firecoins]

My prediction:
alcohol was involved.
are you suggestiong that performance decreasing drugs were used by the Yankees?:rolleyes:

Are you suggesting that Yankee Pitchers could not find the strike zone?:rolleyes:

Yes these are joke and I shouldn't make them but I could not help myself.:(

[The Central Scrutinizer]

My prediction:
alcohol was involved.

I blame Bush.

[Darth Rotor]

Because it was a joy ride in the middle of the afternoon involving a sportsman whose season was ended and was effectively unemployed until next Spring. Many people travel North at this time to see the foliage.

The idea that leisure and alcohol might be related isn't an extraordinary claim. But it's pure speculation on my part.
I ask because most pilots, by the time they get their FAA check ride and thus their private pilot's license, have had "no drinking and flying" drilled into their heads.

On the other hand, millionaires are known to do things they aren't supposed to . . . just like anyone else.

DR

[Hamradioguy]

They're now saying the plane is registered to Corey Lidel, a New York Yankees pitcher who pitched against the Tigers this week.

News reports say his passport was found at the crash site. Everybody knows a baseball player would not fly around NYC with his passport. Everybody knows a passport could not survive a crash into a building followed by a fire. Clearly it was planted. Clearly the Gubmint did it. The troofers will have fun with this I bet.

[Dave1001]

I've heard of a pitcher going inside before, but never that way.

The puns are endless.

[Dave1001]

News reports say his passport was found at the crash site. Everybody knows a baseball player would not fly around NYC with his passport. Everybody knows a passport could not survive a crash into a building followed by a fire. Clearly it was planted. Clearly the Gubmint did it. The troofers will have fun with this I bet.

My first thought was that it was weird they made a point to mention that his passport was found on the ground. Like a response to the CT's.

[firecoins]

Did they find a plane?

Did BBC and Al Jeezera find anyone reported dead to be alive somewhere?

Why didn't the Secret Service rush Bush out of where ever he was?

Why did NORAD fail to intercept the plane? Were there any military exercises simulating a Cessna into a Manhattan apartment building?

How did is the Goat doing from My Pet Goat?

[Cylinder]

FAA restricts Manhattan flight path (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/10/13/faa.plane.crash.ap/index.html)

Fixed-wing planes have been banned from the East River corridor in New York unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control, the Federal Aviation Administration said Friday.

The announcement comes two days after after a plane carrying New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle above the East River slammed into a skyscraper.

The new ban will affect small aircraft, but not helicopters, that previously have been allowed to fly along the river, which runs along the east side of Manhattan Island.

All air traffic along the river has been limited to 1,100 feet in altitude.

[Darth Rotor]

FAA restricts Manhattan flight path (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/10/13/faa.plane.crash.ap/index.html)
Oh, for flocksakes, this is stupid draconian reaction to a one off.

Stupid is as stupid does. The FAA are now officially stupid. :( The VFR corridors require a check in and check out at each terminus of the route. See and avoid. This is insanely simple VFR traffic separation.

*mutters into his beer*

DR

[The Central Scrutinizer]

FAA restricts Manhattan flight path (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/10/13/faa.plane.crash.ap/index.html)

Unfortunate, but predictable.

[Giz]

The puns are endless.

Guess he pitched when he should have yawed.