Country Building: Iraq v Afganistan

[Tmy]

Is it me or id the after Taliban transition in Afgan was alot smoother than what going on in Iraq?

It seemed like we installed a government rather quickly. Even put in whats his name as president. Iraq seems to be rather chaotic.

OR is there a big conspiracy to keep Iraq in occupied mode. The easier to swipe the oil. HMMMMMMMM!!!?!

CONSPIRICY ALERT!!!!

[Agammamon]

Afghanistan already had locals waiting in the wings to take over (and they had significant power on their own and local popularity)

[Tmy]

Theres no popular upstarts in Iraq? Was everyone content wh Saddam. Were there no exiles looking to return.

[Jon_in_london]

Well Afghanistan is still a huge mess. Yes, the US was able to install a puppet very quickly, maybe they are having a harder time finding an Iraqi puppet?

Maybe you view what is happening in Iraq as so much worse because of the stronger Iraqi resistance (aluta continua) to US imperialist occupation?

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Maybe you view what is happening in Iraq as so much worse because of the stronger Iraqi resistance (aluta continua) to US imperialist occupation?

I've asked this before, but never got an answer. Maybe I'll try again:

- Are all of the people fighting "US imperialist occupation" from Iraq? I seem to remember, at the end of the war, most of the strongest fighting came from Syrians, Palestinians, etc. who came in to Iraq to join the fight. In many cases they put up more of a fight than the Iraqis themselves did. (This is an honest question... At this point, I don't know.)

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Tmy
Theres no popular upstarts in Iraq? Was everyone content wh Saddam. Were there no exiles looking to return.

Sure there are/were, but they either didn't have enough of a power base in the country or weren't sufficiently pliable to be worth installing. Add to that our failure to have anymore than the barest reconstruction plan before we went in (granted, it was the same in Afghanistan, but the Afghanis had people who were able to take the reins right away) and you get what we have now. The exile we proposed to lead the new government is not particularly popular with the locals and we don't want the religious leaders to gain power and turn the whole country into a religious version of Saddam's Iraq (negating any good that may come of the invasion).

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


I've asked this before, but never got an answer. Maybe I'll try again:

- Are all of the people fighting "US imperialist occupation" from Iraq? I seem to remember, at the end of the war, most of the strongest fighting came from Syrians, Palestinians, etc. who came in to Iraq to join the fight. In many cases they put up more of a fight than the Iraqis themselves did. (This is an honest question... At this point, I don't know.)

How am I supposed to find that out?

Given that they are in Iraq its logical to assume that they are Iraqis.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


How am I supposed to find that out?

Given that they are in Iraq its logical to assume that they are Iraqis.

The question wasn't necessarily directed at you; it was a general request for information. I thought that someone, somewhere may have read a new report that said "Americans stopped an attack in Iraq, organized by people from Syria", or something along those lines.

And I really don't think its logical to assume they're Iraqis. As I mentioned before, near the end of the war, the strongest fighting seemed to come from people who were not Iraqis, but from other Arab states. With the current power vacume, other countries may be eager to extend their influence in the region.

[crackmonkey]

In what way is that logical? It was noted that many of the resistance fighters captured and killed in last week's raids were 'foreign Arabs'. Al Qaeda made no secret that it was sending fighters to Iraq to fight the US, and many Arabs were turned back while trying to enter Iraq to fight.

[patnray]

I question your premise that things went any more smoothly in Afganistan. The situation there is chaotic. The installed government has little power outside Kabul. Most of the country is ruled by warlords. Most of the Talban and Al-quida leadership escaped. Opium production has resumed. Travel on the highways is dangerous...

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
In what way is that logical? It was noted that many of the resistance fighters captured and killed in last week's raids were 'foreign Arabs'. Al Qaeda made no secret that it was sending fighters to Iraq to fight the US, and many Arabs were turned back while trying to enter Iraq to fight.

Oh yes, and I guess those brave men who held Umm Qasar for days against impossible odds were also foreigners?

:rolleyes:

[ssibal]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Oh yes, and I guess those brave men who held Umm Qasar for days against impossible odds were also foreigners?

:rolleyes:

They only "held Umm Qasar for days" because the U.S. and U.K. decided not to roll through the city killing everyone.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by ssibal


They only "held Umm Qasar for days" because the U.S. and U.K. decided not to roll through the city killing everyone.

Sure, whatever propaganda you like.............

[ssibal]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Sure, whatever propaganda you like.............

Right, we were not trying to minimize civilian casualties, we were simply up against a formidable force, we could not have possibly leveled the city in a day.....