Sunday Afternoon at TAM--Guns and Nukes

[Hutch]

Well, the Guns for sure, the Nukes depend on how convincing I can sound.

It has become a modest tradition (which means it has happened at two different TAMs), of going to a place in Vegas called The Gun Store, which, as you can imagine, sells guns. It also allows you to rent a variety of weapons, from pistols to Thompson Submachine Guns and fire them off at their range in the back of the store.

Well, tim, Fengirl, Mr. Fengirl, Badger and yours truly are planning to venture over there on Sunday and see what havoc Skeptics with guns can do. I can carry about 6 passengers in the MiniVan I'm renting, so if more folks are interested we'll need more drivers. I figure we'll leave about 1 PM after the papers are done and be there to about 2-2:30PM, but this is subject to change.

After blasting away, I am going to try and convince some others to join me at the Atomic Testing Museum (about 5-10 minute drive), which IMHO is one of those undiscovered treasures of Las Vegas. Very well organized Museum, lots of exhibits, and quite a bit of history of the Testing done, some of which was in eyesight of Vegas in the 50's.

However, if there are other plans afoot, I am willing to listen to reason (or a Wombat with an AK-47...:eek: )

Well, at least SOMETHING is now scheduled for TAM5...:cool:

[Kochanski]

I am not interested in the guns part at all, but I would love to visit the Atomic Testing Museum.

[TobiasTheViking]

I agree with Kochanski.

[CFLarsen]

There are only so many hours at TAM.

Why waste them at firing a lethal weapon, when you can have intelligent conversation with the world's foremost skeptics?

[rustypouch]

Sounds interesting. I might be there.

[TobiasTheViking]

well, i'll only be there if i can find the time.. and if i can hold hands with Kochanski.

:blush:

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'll only go if I can hold hands with TobiasTheCommie.

I do want to see the Atomic museum. The guns I can take or leave, but if that is part of the itinerary, then I'm quite sure I will shoot some, and I quite imagine I will enjoy it. (I have no opposition to guns or anything, it's just that this isn't something I would normally do)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

There are only so many hours at TAM.

Why waste them at firing a lethal weapon, when you can have intelligent conversation with the world's foremost skeptics?

Maybe we can get some of the world's foremost skeptics to go with us! Intelligent people love guns.

[Horatius]

I'd be up for this. I visited the Gun Store the last time I was in Vegas, and it was quite fun.

[Kochanski]

TobiasTheCommie we can hold hands and skip around the parking lot while the others shoot guns if you like. :)

Since it looks like Hutch wants to schedule it after all is done on Sunday, I expect I will have time, since I don't plan to leave until Monday.

[TobiasTheViking]

i won't leave till tuesday.. so i should be game as well.. especially for the skpping around the parking lot.

[Fengirl]

Count me and Mr Fengirl in, for both the shooting and the Atomic Museum.
We were both keen shooters before the UK government went loopy. :rolleyes: Haven't touched a gun in about 8 years...I wonder if I can still shoot straight?

[CFLarsen]

Intelligent people love guns.

Prove it.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Prove it.

I already have.

[Hutch]

Hmmm, suspect we'll need more than one car--or I'll have to upgrade to a 19-Passenger van..

Again, this is all subject to the whims and desires of my fellow Forumites..but were about 90 days out now and some things need to be at least in the conceptual stage.

IIRC the Museum is only open to 5PM and the Gun Store is open to 6:30PM, so doing them on Firday or Saturday would be tough, with the TAM sessions usually lasting to 4pm or later.

Another good reason to arrive early and stay late...

[Hamradioguy]

YES to both! Guess I'd best plan on leaving Monday and not Sunday afternoon, eh? (All those years fooling about with firearms and working on nuclear emergency preparedness may pay off.....)

[CFLarsen]

I already have.

Show me.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

IIRC the Museum is only open to 5PM and the Gun Store is open to 6:30PM, so doing them on Firday or Saturday would be tough, with the TAM sessions usually lasting to 4pm or later.

If that is the case, then I would suggest doing lunch, then hitting the museum, then the gun range. On Sunday.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Show me.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1995009&postcount=8

[CFLarsen]

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1995009&postcount=8

Circular reasoning.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Circular reasoning.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1996009&postcount=20

[CFLarsen]

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1996009&postcount=20

Not a serious response.

[Hutch]

If that is the case, then I would suggest doing lunch, then hitting the museum, then the gun range. On Sunday.

Given that there seems to be great interest in the Museum, that may be a good idea.

Oh, BTW, here is the Gun Store site (be sure to clip the $5.00 off coupon)

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/rental.htm

And the Atomic Testing Museum:

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/rental.htm

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Not a serious response.

That makes two of us.

[JLam]

Hutch is intelligent, and likes guns.

Tim is intelligent, and likes guns.

Therefore, at least 2 intelligent people like guns.

That makes the statement "Intelligent people like guns" a true statement. (And yes, I'm aware that it doesn't mean ALL intelligent people like guns. Let's not turn this into an introduction to Logic course :p)

Please say you're joking, Claus.

[Cleon]

Claus...Please, please, just give it a rest. This isn't a political statement. This is just something to do while in Vegas. If you don't like it, don't go.

Hutch, depending on my flight situation, I'm in.

[bearcub]

Count me in as well, and I'll have a car if needed.

I missed going last year because I decided to watch the panel discussion instead (probably would have had more fun blasting away).

It's been quite a few years since I last shot anyonething :eye-poppi so I'm looking forward to it. :D

[TobiasTheViking]

oh i would rather watch the panel discussion as well.

[Mattfn]

On Sunday is the paper presentations, and they are over by 2pm, even when running late. Many intelligent skeptics are gone for home by then as well. Those that can stay do so for goings on such as this, to continue to be with those they've met. FYI.

As for me, I don't find those who make up excuses instead of just saying something isn't their cup of tea, or bash suggestions for the heck of it intelligent or fun. So, I can say I will be at pre & post TAM activities with as few such people as possible.

[T'ai Chi]

Target practice sounds like a fun thing to try.

The museum sounds neat too. I hope people everywhere get educated on the horrors of nukes.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Target practice sounds like a fun thing to try.

The museum sounds neat too. I hope people everywhere get educated on the horrors of nukes.

They could also get educated about macroevolution. I don't know much about it, and was wondering if it occured on Earth. Did it?

[Geek Goddess]

Target practice sounds like a fun thing to try.

The museum sounds neat too. I hope people everywhere get educated on the horrors of nukes.


My son drives a nuke

[The Central Scrutinizer]

My son drives a nuke

You're son is Slim Pickens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slim_Pickens)?

[T'ai Chi]

They could also get educated about why I'm a spillover-ing dufus. I don't know much about myself, and was wondering if I am as insecure as I come off. Am I?

Fixed it for you.

Please don't use the quote function to misquote other users.

The Central Scrutinizer's actual post is #31.

[Geek Goddess]

You're son is Slim Pickens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slim_Pickens)?

Nah, that's my dad. He flew B-52s. Son drives a sub.

[briandunning]

Way cool. I go to the FileMaker Developers Conference every year in Phoenix, and the annual trip to the Scottsdale Gun Club grows every year. The guys from the UK like it especially, since they can't do that at home. Hundreds of geeks all lined up with MP5's, 50-cals, you name it.

[CFLarsen]

Fixed it for you.

Aren't you the one who doesn't like personal attacks?

Aren't you the one who always want to discuss the issue?

[SHADOWmsp]

Overall ... count me in!!

If Penn & Teller can be gun dealers (see their recent show in Vegas' program) then I can certainly feel good about shooting hot lead in the NV desert. What fun!!

Also, VERY interested in the museum tour.

Let me know how to help, if you need it,

A skeptic named Jim
aka SHADOWmsp

[DRBUZZ0]

I was planning on a trip to the atomic testing museam as well as the nevada test site, but it would have to be on a weekday, because otherwise it's nearly impossible to get onto the site.

I dunno if this would be redundant then, but I already had a visit approved by the DOE.

There's some cool stuff there. If you've ever seen the well known movies of the houses being blown apart by the pressure wave of a nuke, those are still there.... well...the houses that were far enough not to be completely destroyed that is.

[Hamradioguy]

There's some cool stuff there. If you've ever seen the well known movies of the houses being blown apart by the pressure wave of a nuke, those are still there.... well...the houses that were far enough not to be completely destroyed that is.

Yeah, I saw some of those on my last visit to the NTS. Really weird, as they are pretty much exactly as they were 50 years ago....like time just stopped. A bizarre place and well worth a visit. But on my visit the trees were nowhere in sight however (There's a film of a forest of 50ft fir trees bending in the atomic blast wave. No trees grow in the Nevada desert of course, so they cut a bunch of big trees in the Pacific northwest, trucked 'em to Nevada and stuck 'em in holes they drilled. Instant forest! As I said, a bizarre place.) I hope the good Dr. can pull off a visit.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

How far from Vegas is it? Can we go on Thursday?

[Hutch]

OK, what I have so far is:

NUKES (11)

Hutch (minivan)
Kochanski
Tobais the Commie
Central Scrutinizer
Horatius
HamRadioGuy
Cleon?
Bearcub (car)
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch?

GUNS (8)

Hutch (car)
Horatius
Hamradioguy
Cleon?
bearcub (car)
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch?

I have a minivan, don't know what bearcub drives, so we should have the transportation angle covered. As Scrut has suggested, we'll do the Museum first as it is the one most everyone is interested in and closes earlier.

So, for a working plan, it'll be.

Meet after lunch at 1:30PM (place to be determined after I've seen the lay of the land) to drive to Atomic Testing Museum (about 20-25 minutes depending on traffic).

Atomic Testing Museum--2:00-3:45PM

Drive to Gun Store--3:45-4:00PM (those that don't want to shoot may (1) wangle a ride back with someone (2) come along and watch (3) split a cab.)

Gun Store--4:00-5:30PM (depending on crowds, may be less than that)

Back to Rivera--5:30-6:00PM

Above subject to change/review/modification as necessary.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

GUNS (8)

Hutch (car)
Horatius
Hamradioguy
Cleon?
bearcub (car)
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch?

I want to shoot guns too! Can we pick who we point them at?

[Fitter]

Hutch, I'm in for the museum and have will have my car there as well. It's a Grand Am so it will seat 5 adults ( as long as those in the back seat are not my size) and there is room for a commie in the trunk.

[Hutch]

I want to shoot guns too! Can we pick who we point them at?

Sorry, scrut, rebecca ain't coming with us (at least not that I know of)

You do get large paper targets to shoot at and keep, from gangsters to terrorists and maybe others. I still have my perforated terrorist lying around here somewhere..

[Loon]

I'm in for both

[Zygar]

I am also in for both.

[Horatius]

Sorry, scrut, rebecca ain't coming with us (at least not that I know of)

You do get large paper targets to shoot at and keep, from gangsters to terrorists and maybe others. I still have my perforated terrorist lying around here somewhere..

It's hard to tell, but they also have Saddam Hussein (http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/94904555fc35e3015.jpg). Or did, a few years back. And Osama!

[bearcub]

Sorry for the delay. I'll be driving a yuppiemobile (BMW) sedan. I'll have room for 3 easily or 4 friendly folks.

[Hamradioguy]

Hutch, I'm in for the museum and have will have my car there as well. It's a Grand Am so it will seat 5 adults ( as long as those in the back seat are not my size) and there is room for a commie in the trunk.

Not sure what your size is but I'm thin- that's thin but not skinny. And for my age I'm pretty flexible. I'm just glad it was my college roommate and not me that was the Commie.

[a.real.girl]

Is there still room for this? Can a newbie girl join? I can drive myself...and a few others.

[exarch]

I'm tempted to do this again. But I'm more likely to decide on the day itself if I'll join or not.

It looks like there's quite a crowd already though, and "the gun club" is not that big a place IIRC.

[The Shadow]

Hutch,

Sounds like fun, but you guys are doing it too close to my departure time. I'm definitely considering on going at some point though. Shot a lot of guns, but nothin' fully automatic - yet. Thanks for the Idea!

[Pirate_Lad]

What kind of range does this place have? I really, really miss rifles and machineguns. I would love to throw some lead downrange a few hundred meters.

[exarch]

What kind of range does this place have? I really, really miss rifles and machineguns. I would love to throw some lead downrange a few hundred meters.

Unfortunately, it's only about 15-20 meters at most, IIRC.

[Pirate_Lad]

but, but...how can I display my proficiency with small arms if there is no wind or drop to account for?

Pah! I might look into finding a place where you can use some heavy gear, if such a place exists.

[Curnir]

but, but...how can I display my proficiency with small arms if there is no wind or drop to account for?

Pah! I might look into finding a place where you can use some heavy gear, if such a place exists.

well.. that sounds like something that is worth researching for TAM6.

Umm and just what do you mean by 'heavy gear'?

I mean I'd love to get my hands on a M82.. but I'd settle for a M21, M24 or even a Remington 700 with a good scope.

Among the smaller stuff.. well the MP5 and some 9mm guns would be fun.

[Hamradioguy]

Pah! I might look into finding a place where you can use some heavy gear, if such a place exists.

Heavy gear? Like this?:

[Horatius]

What kind of range does this place have? I really, really miss rifles and machineguns. I would love to throw some lead downrange a few hundred meters.

Here's a picture from a few years ago.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/94904555fc35e3015.jpg

[Curnir]

there's something wrong with that picture. :p

[TriangleMan]

I'd like to go to the Museum, but it looks like there's enough people for the Gun Club. From what I recall it only has six or seven booths for firing. I went last year and had a fun time shooting a 9mm - the first time I had ever fired guns before.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

there's something wrong with that picture. :p

The shooter is upside down.

[exarch]

The shooter is upside down.

For some reason, when Tim went to shoot the Thompson in 2005, they hung the target upside down as well (IIRC). I don't quite know what the reason for that is though ...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

For some reason, when Tim went to shoot the Thompson in 2005, they hung the target upside down as well (IIRC). I don't quite know what the reason for that is though ...

Because he's from England?

[exarch]

Because he's from England?

Maybe if he was Australian, but British?

[Hutch]

No, they hung my target upside down for the Thompson last year. I think they explained that people tended to shoot high with the gun and having them aim at the upside down target led to more hits than the regualr target.

or something like that..

[Horatius]

No, they hung my target upside down for the Thompson last year. I think they explained that people tended to shoot high with the gun and having them aim at the upside down target led to more hits than the regualr target.

or something like that..

They told me it was because everyone wants to do "head shots", but very few can control the muzzle lift, and they got tired of people shooting the ceiling.

[tim]

Erm....... They did hang the target upside down, but every round (40) hit the kill zone. Don't mess with the wombat......................... :eek:
BTW, Lynn would like to come, I think.

[Hutch]

OK, to the best of my knowledge and the above posts, this is what we have for the sunday outing:

MUSEUM (17)

Hutch (minivan)
Kochanski
Tobais the Commie
Central Scrutinizer
Horatius
HamRadioGuy
Cleon
Bearcub (car)
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch
Fitter (car)
Loon
Zygar
a.real.girl (car)
tim
lynn


GUNS (14)

Hutch (car)
Horatius
Hamradioguy
Cleon
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch
bearcub (car)
Central Scrutinizer
Loon
Zygar
a.real.girl (car)
tim
lynn

Looks like we have enough transportation, and if Fitter doesn't want to do the shooting, he/she (can't remember, fitter, brain cramp) can take the other non-shooters back. We probably can accomodate a few more, figure Hutch+6, fitter+4, bearcub+3 and a.real.girl+3 = 20.

I'll have maps for the drivers at TAM5 and as for the 1:30PM gathering point, I will either tell you at TAM5 or more probably post it on the Information Board, providing we have one like last year (for 1st-timers, there was a large board outside the meeting room to post notes/meetings, etc. on. I'll post there once I have a feeling for the hotel and the best place to meetup).

The plan for Sunday at the moment is:

0900-1230--Either attend paper presentations/sleep in/gamble/etc.
1230-1315--Eat lunch
1315-1330--Gather at designated location.
1330-1400--Depart hotel and drive to Atomic Testing Museum.
1400-1545--At Museum
1545-1600--Depart museum and either return to Rivera or drive to Gun Store.
1600-1730--At Gun Store
1730-1800--Leave Gun Store and return to Rivera.

Like any good schedule, there is extra time built in and is subject to modification/amendement/complete destruction.

skeptics...organizing cats....whats the difference...;) :D

[TriangleMan]

OK, to the best of my knowledge and the above posts, this is what we have for the sunday outing:

MUSEUM (17)

you missed someone (see post #61)

[Hutch]

OK, three-sided Sapient, you've on the list.

[Pirate_Lad]

Hey, wait a second... I wanted in on this!

[Hutch]

MUSEUM (19)

Hutch (minivan)
Kochanski
Tobais the Commie
Central Scrutinizer
Horatius
HamRadioGuy
Cleon
Bearcub (car)
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch
Fitter (car)
Loon
Zygar
a.real.girl (car)
tim
lynn
triangleman
pirate Lad

GUNS (16)

Hutch (car)
Horatius
Hamradioguy
Cleon
shadowmsp
skeptikilt
rustypouch
bearcub (car)
Central Scrutinizer
Loon
Zygar
a.real.girl (car)
tim
lynn
triangle man
Pirate lad

Looks like we're pretty full up, unless another car joins the list.

[SquishyDave]

I'll be in on this, my Sister and Brother-in-law will probably come along, we have a car, there will be room for two others.

[Hutch]

OK, looks like we have plenty of transportation to both places.

As for meeting up, I'll try and get ahold of all the drivers during TAM5 (or if you see me first, come on up) and have maps for them. As for where we'll meet up to go, I want to look at "the lay of the land" first at the Riveria, and then I'll post a notification on the Bulletin Board (they had one last year, hopefully they'll have one this year) so please be sure to check on that for the meetup location.

[Frogberto]

Both of these actually sound great to me. I'm in if this is still open.

[Hutch]

Both of these actually sound great to me. I'm in if this is still open.

Gotcha.

[SpeederA]

is there room for me for both?

[Hutch]

OK with speederA, but the book is now closed.

I'll check with the Museum to see if we can get a group rate or something.

See y'all in a couple of days...less than 20 hours to departure.

[Soapy Sam]

There are only so many hours at TAM.

Why waste them at firing a lethal weapon, when you can have intelligent conversation with the world's foremost skeptics?

Of course, some combination of both activities might be arranged.:cool:

[SHADOWmsp]

Just want to say "Thank You Hutch".

Just two weeks ago I thought this side trip would be a bust, that there wasn't enough people to pull it off.

Thank you to all that have "committed" to enhancing your person knowledge of bombs and firearms in these past few days!

I am really excited...boarding on my flight begins in 13 hours!

See you all there!

SHADOWmsp

[Sin City Teacher]

The Atomic Testing Museum is worth checking out. I went last year. I bought my Einstein action figure in the gift shop while I was there, and it can totally take my Jesus action figure in a fight.