John Lennon's death

[kc440_]

This has been confirmed to me by James Richards, a researcher of the Kennedy Assassination and an expert on the Cuban Exiles. In the Bay of Pigs, many anti-Castro Cubans died or were taken prisoner. A man named San Jenis was a survivor. The Cuban exiles now wanted to kill Kennedy for not providing air cover and because if Castro could be blamed for assassinating President Kennedy, that would make the United States retaliate and the Exiles could get their old Cuba back. The Mob was in on this too. They made a lot of money from those casinos.

Later, San Jenis went by the name Jose Perdomos. The CIA kept him on to do "jobs" after the Assassination. This is what Mr. Richards confirmed for me. On the night John Lennon was killed, the same Jose Perdomos was a special security guard assigned to aid Lennon in entering the Dakota, where he lived. Sometimes Lennon would be mobbed. So on the night John Lennon was killed, Perdomos didn't do his job for Lennon. When Lennon was shot, Perdomos was said to ask the creep, "Do you know what you did?" And the bastard said, "I just shot John Lennon." The creep -- I can't bear to hear or say his name -- was a "Manchurian Candidate." One Lennon website says the creep didn't shoot at Lennon at all. Lennon's autopsy reveals he was shot from the left side. I believe 4 bullets entered his body. The creep was on the right side of the entrance. This was the work of the CIA. They had a man hiding in the darkened entranceway or darkened freight elevator. That's how Lennon was shot.

Why would the CIA want to kill John Lennon? He was funding a dangerous radical leftist group. He was very popular and considered by the FBI and Intel in general as subversive. They shut him up and blamed it on that bastard.

Ironically, it was Lennon who helped us forget Kennedy's murder 17 years prior.

kc440

[defaultdotxbe]

sooooo....who killed dimebag darrell?

[Redtail]

As a side note I read That Jhon's last words were "NO! You want Yoko! She's the one that broke up the Bea....:duck:

[Piggy]

kc440, please provide credible evidence that what you say is true, regarding the specific circumstances of the shooting. Thanks.

[Dog Town]

This has been confirmed to me by James Richards

*cocks head askew* Really?

[Zep]

So who IS James Richards?

[Class]

Uh, is this thread supposed to be serious?:confused:

[Fronzel]

I vaguely remember Perot said that he dropped out of the presidential race because a State Trooper that supported him broke the conspiracy of silence and told him that if he kept running the same Cubans the CIA used to kill JFK and RFK would kill him.

Or something. Perot said lots of crazy things.

[Brainache]

From what I've read, JL was investigated by the FBI (IIRC) in 1974 when he was trying to move to the US. The feds concluded that while he talked about revolution and associated himself with people like Abby Hoffman etc, he was too stoned most of the time to be any kind of threat.
By the time of his murder by Mark Chapman, he had been living in NY for five years or so in semi retirement. He had just released a mediocre album and was re-entering the public spotlight.

As for which side he was shot: Lennon had walked past Chapman and turned to face him when he was shot.

I'll check this, but I think Perdomos was actually the Doorman at the Dakota.

[Piggy]

As for which side he was shot: Lennon had walked past Chapman and turned to face him when he was shot.
ETA: Correction -- I posted that Chapman shot Lennon as he signed a copy of Double Fantasy. That was incorrect. Chapman had gotten Lennon to sign the record earlier in the day.

[Topspy]

Piggy is everywhere but the thread I started on the cool ( if doubtful) finsrud machine...... as far as this thread goes.... Puleeeze!

[Piggy]

Hi, Topspy. I have checked out the Finsrud thread. Interesting and fun stuff. I just had nothing to add there. Seemed like everyone else had covered the bases.

As for Lennon, I remember vividly the day he was shot. I had just gotten out of the shower when my brother told me through the bathroom door. I didn't believe him.

Then I listened to the radio. We were all total Beatles freaks, me and my friends, at that time, listening to our older brothers' LPs.

I was in 8th grade. That morning I was going to English class when my teacher, Mrs. Stein, saw me in the hallway, and she shook her head as she approached me and said, "I'm sorry".

So yeah, this thread caught my eye.

Cheers. -Piggy

[LashL]

Hi, Topspy. I have checked out the Finsrud thread. Interesting and fun stuff. I just had nothing to add there. Seemed like everyone else had covered the bases.

As for Lennon, I remember vividly the day he was shot. I had just gotten out of the shower when my brother told me through the bathroom door. I didn't believe him.

Then I listened to the radio. We were all total Beatles freaks, me and my friends, at that time, listening to our older brothers' LPs.

I was in 8th grade. That morning I was going to English class when my teacher, Mrs. Stein, saw me in the hallway, and she shook her head as she approached me and said, "I'm sorry".

So yeah, this thread caught my eye.

Cheers. -Piggy

Where were you located geographically at the time, piggy?

[Piggy]

Where are you located geographically at the time, piggy?
A little milltown in Georgia, between Atlanta and Macon. Why?

[Brainache]

Hi, Topspy. I have checked out the Finsrud thread. Interesting and fun stuff. I just had nothing to add there. Seemed like everyone else had covered the bases.

As for Lennon, I remember vividly the day he was shot. I had just gotten out of the shower when my brother told me through the bathroom door. I didn't believe him.

Then I listened to the radio. We were all total Beatles freaks, me and my friends, at that time, listening to our older brothers' LPs.

I was in 8th grade. That morning I was going to English class when my teacher, Mrs. Stein, saw me in the hallway, and she shook her head as she approached me and said, "I'm sorry".

So yeah, this thread caught my eye.

Cheers. -Piggy

I was 16 at the time. A huge Beatles fan and I was totally shocked by his death.

BTW the FBI had about 300 pages of info on JL compiled in the early seventies and late sixties according to the book "Come Together- John Lennon In His Time" by Jon Wiener. An interesting read if you want to get some info on the man and his politics.

[LashL]

A little milltown in Georgia, between Atlanta and Macon. Why?

Just asking because it seemed odd to me that you'd describe this as something that happened in the morning (showering, going to school, etc.) unless you were in another time zone, since it happened in the evening in NY, not in the morning.

I guess you just didn't hear about it until the next day, despite the fact that you and your friends were all "total beatles freaks" and despite the fact that this was so well known, apparently, in your elementary school that a teacher would approach you, at what, age 12 or 13, and say "I'm sorry" in the hallway.

Yeah, okay.

Got it.

[The Atheist]

This has been confirmed to me by James Richards, a researcher of the Kennedy Assassination and an expert on the Cuban Exiles.Aha. I see the obvious mistake in the OP. He means James (aka Jim)Morrison, not James Richards.

[kc440_]

As a side note I read That Jhon's last words were "NO! You want Yoko! She's the one that broke up the Bea....:duck:

I wish that was true, and am not ashamed of admitting it. Everyone I contacted when it came over the news, said the same thing: "They should have shot her."

kc440

[CptColumbo]

This has been confirmed to me by James Richards, a researcher of the Kennedy Assassination and an expert on the Cuban Exiles.
I personally have never heard of James Richards, so I don't know how credible a source he is.
However, all your information about "Jose Perdomos" seems to come from James Richards. So did he comfirm it for you or tell it to you?

Ironically, it was Lennon who helped us forget Kennedy's murder 17 years prior.

kc440

Who is this "Kennedy" you speak of?

I didn't make us forget about it! If anything it reminded us of it.

When the Columbia was destroyed on re-entry, I thought about the Challenger disaster almost twenty years before.

When Regan was shot I thought about the Lennon shooting.

My father tells me of how when MLKjr. and RFK were killed people thought about when JFK was shot.

When my grand-uncle was alive he told me how the Kennedy assassination reminded him of when FDR died.

[kc440_]

kc440, please provide credible evidence that what you say is true, regarding the specific circumstances of the shooting. Thanks.

I just found the site. Here's the link. Scroll down till you see red letters saying, Who Really Killed John Lennon? I had a hard time finding the site. :mad:

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm

kc440

[Brainache]

To be fair, I think Kc was referring to The Beatles first appearences in the US in 1963 which according to some helped take the nation's mind off the recent tragedy.

All that - I wanna hold your hand and She Love You - mop top hysteria helped people get over Kennedy apparently.

[Foolmewunz]

Just asking because it seemed odd to me that you'd describe this as something that happened in the morning (showering, going to school, etc.) unless you were in another time zone, since it happened in the evening in NY, not in the morning.

I guess you just didn't hear about it until the next day, despite the fact that you and your friends were all "total beatles freaks" and despite the fact that this was so well known, apparently, in your elementary school that a teacher would approach you, at what, age 12 or 13, and say "I'm sorry" in the hallway.

Yeah, okay.

Got it.

Huh?

Seems totally plausible to me. An eight grader might have been in bed by the time the news hit Speedbump, Georgia.

[yodaluver28]

I Googled James Richards-Lennon assassination and the only on-topic article that came up was on an anti-semitic website that promotes the notion that Kennedy was assassinated by Israel with help from what they call "secret Jew" Lyndon Johnson.


I need to go take a shower now.

[kc440_]

So who IS James Richards?

He is an expert on the Cuban Exiles, trained by the CIA, leading up to Kennedy's Assassination..

kc440

[kc440_]

Uh, is this thread supposed to be serious?:confused:

It sure is. John Lennon's death is a bonafide conspiracy.

kc440

[Brainache]

Umm kc440 where is that link you mentioned?

And the murder of John Lennon was not a conspiracy. It was the act of a fudamentalist nutjob with a Beatles fixation.

[CptColumbo]

He is an expert on the Cuban Exiles, trained by the CIA, leading up to Kennedy's Assassination..

kc440
OOOH..That James Richards.

Nope, still haven't heard of him.

[LashL]

Huh?

Seems totally plausible to me. An eight grader might have been in bed by the time the news hit Speedbump, Georgia.

Sure, okay, the kid might have gone to bed early. (But the timing issue you raise is a bit suspect - the news hit Speedbump, Ontario, Canada, pretty quickly and I can't imagine that it didn't hit Speedbump - insert city, state, whatever, here- equally quickly)

I don't know anyone who was an 8th grader John Lennon fanatic at the time of his death, admittedly, so I don't know what time they went to bed, but 8th graders around here typically do not go to bed before 2200 or so. That said, this particular ~13 year old John Lennon fan might have been an "early to bed" kind of kid, who knows? In any event, he's here so he can tell us himself.

Still, the whole story sounds suspect to me. Just my opinion, obviously. But an elementary school teacher seeing a kid in the morning and immediately saying "I'm sorry" because the teacher knows that the kid is a John Lennon fan ~ sorry, it sounds strange to me.

I'll be happy to modify my opinion and my position if and when evidence to the contrary is presented, of course.

It just sounds like a bouncy silly tale at first instance.

[kc440_]

I Googled James Richards-Lennon assassination and the only on-topic article that came up was on an anti-semitic website that promotes the notion that Kennedy was assassinated by Israel with help from what they call "secret Jew" Lyndon Johnson.


I need to go take a shower now.

I believe that was rumored by an ex-colleague about Mr. Richards, which he catagorically denies and wants no part of.

kc440

[Brainache]

I just found the site. Here's the link. Scroll down till you see red letters saying, Who Really Killed John Lennon? I had a hard time finding the site. :mad:

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm

kc440

Kc you have to be one of the most gullible people I have ever seen if you give that site any credence at all. What a load of absolute codswallop.

He suggests Edward Teller was resposible~!

He says it was J Edgar Hoover's FBI hit squad.

He says it was the doorman.

He says it was the Genovese crime family.

He manages to tie it in with the Tate- La Bianca murders.

About the only person he says wasn't involved was Mark David Chapman. You know the guy who owned the gun. The guy who told people he was going to kill John Lennon. The guy who was hanging around after the killing reading "Catcher In The Rye". The guy who confessed and never recanted.

In short: "Dude, that's retarded".

[Foolmewunz]

Sure, okay.

I don't know any 8th grader John Lennon fanatics, admittedly, so I don't know what time they went to bed, but, sorry, the whole story sounds like nonsense to me.

Just my opinion, obviously. But teachers in the hallway acknowledging and deferring to the 8th grader kid's "grief" in the morning (because he was allegedly well known as a Lennon fanatic) ... I think not.

I've read enough of Piggy's posts that I sincerely doubt he'd have any reason to make up something so innocuous. If you're not clear on the timing, Lennon was shot at about 11 PM. The first news reports hit us in NYC within about 20 minutes, but I can imagine that it didn't spread across the country quite so rapidly. We didn't have a CNN world at that time, and if Piggy's family was not wont to watch the 11 PM news, they may have learned it only the next morning.

Again, seems totally plausible, especially having noted Piggy's command of the language and that he said that the teacher approached him "that morning". So, yeah, I'd say it's very conceivable the he would've learned it in the morning. (I got calls from my in-laws in Montreal in the morning - they live out in Lac Des Deux Montagnes, but work in the city, so go to bed early 'cuz they get up at 6... They also learned of it on the morning news.)

I'm an older dude, but IIRC there's always been a fairly large Beatle Revival movement as an undercurrent to pop culture. There was a show that ran on Broadway for a couple of years right around then, it was well known enough that SNL even stole their tag line from the TV commercial. "Not The Beatles but an Incredible Re-enactment!" The show was called Beatlemania.

[Brainache]

I was a total Lennon/Beatles fanatic from about age ten (1974) I find nothing to question in Piggy's post. Given that he was probably a rare specimen at his school in "SpeedBump" Georgia, I can believe a teacher taking an interest in him.

[LashL]

I was 18 at the time, in university, and I remember the radio being on and the exact words spoken, "John Lennon has been shot ... and killed" and I remember being blown away by the last two words, which I didn't expect at all. I wasn't a huge Lennon or Beatles fan at the time, but I was stunned and shocked by it nonetheless. I remember the shock and unexpected angst I felt, and I remember the exact location that I was at when I heard it. Funny how that works, even when you're not a big fan.

And as I said above, if piggy's story is accurate, I'll gladly modify my opinion of his story. But, you know, it was 25 years ago, so describing it today as "I remember the day it happened" and talking about it as though it was morning still sounds wrong to me, since the then 13 year old is now almost 40. But I take your point that a then 13 year old might not have heard about it until the next morning.

If it’s true, I will gladly apologize for being skeptical of it, but it just didn't ring true to me at first blush. Perhaps I'm just so used to people making things up so often (happens every day in my line of work) that I have a hard time believing bouncy tales at first blush.

[CFLarsen]

To be fair, I think Kc was referring to The Beatles first appearences in the US in 1963 which according to some helped take the nation's mind off the recent tragedy.

That would be difficult, since the first appearance of the Beatles in the US happened on Feb 7th, 1964.

[ktesibios]

Kc you have to be one of the most gullible people I have ever seen if you give that site any credence at all. What a load of absolute codswallop.

He suggests Edward Teller was resposible~!

He says it was J Edgar Hoover's FBI hit squad.

He says it was the doorman.

He says it was the Genovese crime family.

He manages to tie it in with the Tate- La Bianca murders.

About the only person he says wasn't involved was Mark David Chapman. You know the guy who owned the gun. The guy who told people he was going to kill John Lennon. The guy who was hanging around after the killing reading "Catcher In The Rye". The guy who confessed and never recanted.

In short: "Dude, that's retarded".

And, like any proper paranoid conspiracy theorist, he has a thing about the JOOS.

And Napoleon. Kinda says it all, don't it?

[Brainache]

That would be difficult, since the first appearance of the Beatles in the US happened on Feb 7th, 1964.

Yep sorry got my dates confused. Kennedy was killed in November 63. So I'm a dunce.

[Marquis de Carabas]

What possible reason would Piggy have to lie?

Unless... he was part of the conspiracy, of course.

Let's see, Piggy takes his name from The Lord of the Flies, the novel. The actual Lord of the Flies is Beelzebub, the devil. The devil is a figure in Christian mythology. There's a Christian musician named Steven Curtis Chapman. Chapman, Chapman... sounds familiar... ? Oh yeah, Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon.

Piggy, j'accuse!

[The Atheist]

Beatles and conspiracy in the same thread?

You missed one, kc440:http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1037745308838bd5c4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1987)

[Foolmewunz]

Beatles and conspiracy in the same thread?

You missed one, kc440:http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1037745308838bd5c4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1987)

Ya know, I'd have to say that long before we started getting good debunkings of JFK CT, the thing that turned me away from the dark side was the "Paul is Dead" CT, which had about a ten day lifespan. 18 years old and too much marijuana and time on one's hands will do that to you, I guess, but we just ate up the clues and had it been 2003, I'm sure we would've been photo-shopping and pixel-ating the issue to death.
Whoa, man, like the Walrus was Paul! And in Norse mythology the walrus is like the symbol of death, ya know.
Hey check out Abby Road. Paul's barefoot on the cover and in Indian funerals Indians are barefoot.

Our big cultural buzz back in the 60's was to have FM radio and I'll never forget the midnight to 6 a.m. guy on WBAI, taking phone calls and pushing the conspiracy for about four hours, because he was so sick of the Howard Stern type call-ins... "Howard, you Rock, Man!"..... He had people soaking their album covers (John Wesley Hardin' was the target for some reason), to remove the picture on the front and find the hidden text behind it. And they were doing it!

Finally, about four in the morning he just started chewing the listeners out for being so gullible. Nothing like ridicule by a local icon to wake you up in a hurry. :woowoo

That's why I still support the Krassner school of debate with CT believers. Ridicule them - make 'em feel really childish and make it clear they'll never again get laid, too! (What hottie wants to go home with the guy who's got fourteen people laughing at his idiotic beliefs?)

(ETA: Pay no attention to the smilies - I'm just testing a bunch of the new ones to see what they look like in threads.)

[CptColumbo]

And George has no pants on in this shot. Meaning he did it?

Wait, that's not George.

[Muckar-duva]

I was 18 at the time, in university, and I remember the radio being on and the exact words spoken, "John Lennon has been shot ... and killed" and I remember being blown away by the last two words, which I didn't expect at all. I wasn't a huge Lennon or Beatles fan at the time, but I was stunned and shocked by it nonetheless. I remember the shock and unexpected angst I felt, and I remember the exact location that I was at when I heard it. Funny how that works, even when you're not a big fan.

And as I said above, if piggy's story is accurate, I'll gladly modify my opinion of his story. But, you know, it was 25 years ago, so describing it today as "I remember the day it happened" and talking about it as though it was morning still sounds wrong to me, since the then 13 year old is now almost 40. But I take your point that a then 13 year old might not have heard about it until the next morning.

If it’s true, I will gladly apologize for being skeptical of it, but it just didn't ring true to me at first blush. Perhaps I'm just so used to people making things up so often (happens every day in my line of work) that I have a hard time believing bouncy tales at first blush.


Hell, I remember when the news was in the Swedish papers, and I was 4 years old. The only reason I remember it at all is probably because that was the first time I saw dad cry. I don't find the piggy story strange at all.

[Peephole]

Why would the CIA want to kill John Lennon? He was funding a dangerous radical leftist group. He was very popular and considered by the FBI and Intel in general as subversive. They shut him up and blamed it on that bastard.

kc440
Oooooh, do Biggie and Tupac!

[Piggy]

Just asking because it seemed odd to me that you'd describe this as something that happened in the morning (showering, going to school, etc.) unless you were in another time zone, since it happened in the evening in NY, not in the morning.

I guess you just didn't hear about it until the next day, despite the fact that you and your friends were all "total beatles freaks" and despite the fact that this was so well known, apparently, in your elementary school that a teacher would approach you, at what, age 12 or 13, and say "I'm sorry" in the hallway.
I was 14 -- no, 13... my birthday was 4 days away -- out of elementary school (which was grades 1-6 for us). My brother was 15, and already working after school.

John was killed at about 11:00 Monday night. By the time it hit the news wires, we would have been in bed.

My brother heard it on the radio the next morning while I was in the shower, and he came and told me.

Of course it was all over the news. Anyone who listened to the radio or turned on the TV or saw a paper that morning knew about it. Obviously, Mrs. Stein heard about it and, knowing how much of an influence the Beatles' music was having on me at the time, understood that it was going to be shocking and sad for me.

So yes, despite the fact that all this is exactly what you'd expect to happen, it actually happened.

[Piggy]

I just found the site. Here's the link. Scroll down till you see red letters saying, Who Really Killed John Lennon? I had a hard time finding the site. :mad:

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm
You seemed to have missed the word "credible". Regarding the specific claims concerning the positions of John and Chapman at the time of the crime, and the entry and exit of the bullets, please provide some credible verification.

Thanks.

[Piggy]

Sure, okay, the kid might have gone to bed early. (But the timing issue you raise is a bit suspect - the news hit Speedbump, Ontario, Canada, pretty quickly and I can't imagine that it didn't hit Speedbump - insert city, state, whatever, here- equally quickly)
I don't recall when I went to bed, because there's no reason to remember. But at 13/14, it was probably before 11:00 PM. And even if I'd gone to bed later, I would not have been watching TV or listening to radio that late in my house, so I would not have heard the news breaks anyway. Even if some of my friends had heard, they would not have called that late at night.

Still, the whole story sounds suspect to me. Just my opinion, obviously. But an elementary school teacher seeing a kid in the morning and immediately saying "I'm sorry" because the teacher knows that the kid is a John Lennon fan ~ sorry, it sounds strange to me.
ETA: This next bit penned before reading Lash's later post, so add salt.

Don't you just love conspiracy theorists? Anything not 100% bona fide common that is presented on the other side is suspect ("You were wearing an orange shirt? Why would you do that? Sounds very unlikely. Wouldn't blue have been more popular?") while the most outrageous speculation on their side is worthy of consideration because, who knows, it might be possible.

Mrs. Stein was an English teacher. In that town, my teachers tended to take a special interest in me, especially the language teachers, because I excelled in their courses. Even in grade 6 I would jot Beatles' lyrics in the corners of my quizzes, and in 7th grade carved "Do what you want to do and go where you're going to" in a desk. I don't remember any specifics -- because they would not have been important or unusual enough to remember -- but in an English class, I had by that time (the end of the first term) certainly cited the Beatles. And Mrs. Stein knew me as a person, too, not just a student. She was a great teacher, and she understood how to encourage a kid's love of language, whatever form it was taking.

For an English teacher in a small town to know that one of her best students was a Beatles freak, and for that teacher to say something compassionate to him on the morning when Lennon's death was being reported everywhere -- there's nothing silly or bouncy about it.

Again, despite this being exactly what you would expect, it did actually happen.

[Gravy]

On the night John Lennon was killed, the same Jose Perdomos was a special security guard assigned to aid Lennon in entering the Dakota, where he lived. Sometimes Lennon would be mobbed.
Lennon did not have a "special security guard" assigned to him. Jose Perdomo – not "Perdomos" – was the Dakota's front doorman.

So on the night John Lennon was killed, Perdomos didn't do his job for Lennon. When Lennon was shot, Perdomos was said to ask the creep, "Do you know what you did?"Perdomo was not a bodyguard. By the way, the "creep's" name is Mark David Chapman, who had traveled to NYC previously to kill Lennon but didn't go through with it.

One Lennon website says the creep didn't shoot at Lennon at all. Lennon's autopsy reveals he was shot from the left side. I believe 4 bullets entered his body. The creep was on the right side of the entrance. This was the work of the CIA. They had a man hiding in the darkened entranceway or darkened freight elevator. That's how Lennon was shot.Lennon was shot in the back and shoulder by Chapman, who then sat down on the sidewalk and read "Catcher in the Rye" until the police came.

I just found the site. Here's the link. Scroll down till you see red letters saying, Who Really Killed John Lennon? I had a hard time finding the site. :mad:

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm

kc440
"Hard time finding the site?" Google "Lennon assassination." The site is the second link that comes up. From the first paragraph on the site:
...It is difficult to criticize the official explanation of what happened to John Lennon because a universally accepted version does not exist. There was no trial, no testimonies, no witnesses.No witnesses? Um, Yoko? No trial? Chapman was caught redhanded and happily confessed. The gun was his. He got the fame he wished for.

kc440 is the one who thinks that nuclear weapons and depleted uranium were involved in the destruction of the Twin Towers. I can't figure out of he's a troll, is really young and naive, or is...well, I don't want to speculate further. It's depressing.

[Piggy]

And as I said above, if piggy's story is accurate, I'll gladly modify my opinion of his story. But, you know, it was 25 years ago, so describing it today as "I remember the day it happened" and talking about it as though it was morning still sounds wrong to me, since the then 13 year old is now almost 40. But I take your point that a then 13 year old might not have heard about it until the next morning.

If it’s true, I will gladly apologize for being skeptical of it

No need to apologize for skepticism around here. :)

I responded to the earlier posts without reading thru the thread -- usually not a good idea, so my apologies for that.

You're right, I should have said "the day after" or "when I heard" or something like that.

There are some events which make you hyper-aware, which fix your attention. I don't recall all the details, but some of them are still vivid. When my brother told me, I was putting on socks. (I used to take my clothes into the bathroom, shower, dry off, and dress in there.)

As it happened, the Beatles were very important to me then. My oldest brother was 10 years older. My best friend Mike had a brother who was 11 years older. I first really listened to the Beatles in my brother's Mustang, on 8 track. He'd play '62-66 and '67-70 when we rode with him.

So that was our introduction to rock and roll. Our brothers' Beatles records were the first ones we started listening to, before we moved on to Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd (my most enduring musical passion), and Jethro Tull. As was (and I reckon still is) usual for boys that age, we started trying to learn guitar. We learned Beatles' lyrics and wrote our own songs. It was one of those things that held us together, like punk would be soon afterward for me and another group of friends.

I started writing poetry at 10 years old, after Randall Jarrell's "The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner" showed me that poems could be powerful things. By the time I was 13, Lennon had already had a profound effect on my writing -- I recall one poem that was a response to "Across the Universe".

Btw, the reason I recall carving the Harrison lyric into a desk was that, well first of all it was the first time I'd vandalized anything, but more importantly the next day (or perhaps a few days later) someone carved something totally stupid in response. It fed my budding teen arrogance, and was confirmation that the rest of the kids in that town were a pack of Phillistines and to hell with them. But us... we knew what was what and what was good and what had value.

I still have a couple of full-page drawings I did after Lennon's murder (from my Magritte-inspired surrealist phase) -- one was a watch (my own wristwatch) stopped at the day and time of his murder, with pieces of the face shattered out and other scenes showing through, and the words "Stupid Bloody Monday" written across it (yes, typical juvenile stuff); the other was an abstract of his face, with trademark hair and glasses, composed of objects.

All of which is to say... my reaction at the time, and my memory of it, really aren't unusual at all.

[JPK]

Funny, but I had a very similar experience to Piggy’s the day after John Lennon was killed. I was in 9th grade at the time and was a John Lennon fan. Now that might seem strange because of my age, but there is a good explanation for that. I am the youngest of four children in my family. There is a 16 year spread between me and my oldest sister and she was a huge Beatles fan. She had moved out by the time I started really getting into music and I had all of her albums to listen to in my formative years. Everyone was well aware that I was a Beatle fan.
One difference was I happen to have been awake at the time when they announced that John Lennon had been shot. I stayed up all night listening and recording the radio.
JPK

[Donal]

Come on guys, don't you find it suspiscious that someone would shoot Lennon 6 times and not once turn on Yoko Ono?

Just asking questions.


Also, Chapman was just recently denied parole again.

[Piggy]

Come on guys, don't you find it suspiscious that someone would shoot Lennon 6 times and not once turn on Yoko Ono?
This was part of his plan, to support an insanity defense.

[Parsman]

I didn't like Double Fnatasy much, thought it was a workmanlike album and not worthy of Lenon at his best. I was leaving Edinburgh to travel home to Fraserburgh for the Christmas Holidays from university and I went in to the science fiction bookshop that was then on West Cross Causeway. I heard one of the members of staff say the John lenon was dead to another customer. I didn't think anything of it though - I assumed it was a comment on the work done on "Double Fantasy" and not anything that had realy happened. Thus it was only when I got to the railway station and saw the evening newspapers with news of his shooting that I realised Lenon was really dead.

[Brainster]

For those of us who were a little older than Piggy, the news came from, of all places, Monday Night Football and Howard Cosell.

Hey, KC, can you work Lyman Bostock into a conspiracy theory?

[kc440_]

The man who wrote that site about Lennon's death, I've been warned, is not too stable and evidently hates Jews. This, for me, is unfortunate. But that Jose Perdomo(s?) was a Cuban Exile who managed to survive the Bay of Pigs and was John Lennon's doorman that night is the truth. The man whose name I mentioned assured me of this, but told me not to trust anything else the guy says because he's not playing with a full deck and is a racist bastard.

I had a hard time finding the site because I knew its name was something like jfk.Montreal; so was looking first for JFK sites. I say this to answer someone's criticism of me having a hard time finding the site. I will try to find out more about Jose Perdomo(s?). He's probably dead.

kc440

[Gravy]

I didn't like Double Fnatasy much, thought it was a workmanlike album and not worthy of Lenon at his best. I was leaving Edinburgh to travel home to Fraserburgh for the Christmas Holidays from university and I went in to the science fiction bookshop that was then on West Cross Causeway. I heard one of the members of staff say the John lenon was dead to another customer. I didn't think anything of it though - I assumed it was a comment on the work done on "Double Fantasy" and not anything that had realy happened. Thus it was only when I got to the railway station and saw the evening newspapers with news of his shooting that I realised Lenon was really dead.
Parsman, I know you're in a hurry, but is it really necessary to abbreviate "Lennon?" :D

[kc440_]

I have found another site which explains Lennon's death and verifies Jose Perdomo was the security guard that night.

http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthorizedtheassassinationofjohnlennon.htm

Perdomo, under the name San Jenis, was an Anti-Castro Cuban Exile, trained by the CIA. I will try to find more info about him specifically.

kc440

[Gravy]

Jose Perdomo was the Security Guard that Night -- Coincidence?
As I mentioned before Perdomo was the doorman, which wasn't a big coincidence, since the shooting happened at the Dakota, where Perdomo was the doorman.

If the shooting had happened down the street at the Ansonia and Perdomo was working the front door there, THAT would have been something to investigate, because Perdomo was not the doorman at the Ansonia.

Is any of this sinking in, kc440? That's a serious question.

[Piggy]

I have found another site which explains Lennon's death and verifies Jose Perdomo was the security guard that night.

http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthorizedtheassassinationofjohnlennon.htm

Perdomo, under the name San Jenis, was an Anti-Castro Cuban Exile, trained by the CIA. I will try to find more info about him specifically.
That's a great site. They begin their conspiracy theory argument with the observation that the actions of the man who shot John Lennon for no apparent reason... cannot be rationally justified.

Hmmmmm....

Obviously, there's a conspiracy here....

[senorpogo]

I have found another site which explains Lennon's death and verifies Jose Perdomo was the security guard that night.

http://www.john-lennon.net/whoauthorizedtheassassinationofjohnlennon.htm

Perdomo, under the name San Jenis, was an Anti-Castro Cuban Exile, trained by the CIA. I will try to find more info about him specifically.

kc440

First off, your source doesn't strike me as terribly credible. Secondly, it clearly identifies Jose Perdomo as the doorman, not a security guard.


"Jose Perdomo, the outside doorman for the Dakota,"

He's a doorman, not a security guard nor "a special security guard assigned to aid Lennon in entering the Dakota" as you contend in the original OP.

[kc440_]

As I mentioned before Perdomo was the doorman, which wasn't a big coincidence, since the shooting happened at the Dakota, where Perdomo was the doorman.

If the shooting had happened down the street at the Ansonia and Perdomo was working the front door there, THAT would have been something to investigate, because Perdomo was not the doorman at the Ansonia.

Is any of this sinking in, kc440? That's a serious question.

No, Gravy, I don't understand why it would have been important if Perdomo was a guard at a different building and Lennon got shot there, rather than at the Dakota. :confused:

I have found a better site about Jose Perdomo. I think the conspiracy theory about Lennon's death is growing. These sites didn't exist a year or two ago.

http://forums.lionsgate.com/archive/index.php/t-4084.html

kc440

[Dog Town]

I don't understand why it would have been important if Perdomo was a guard

Doorman! Got it!

[kc440_]

First off, your source doesn't strike me as terribly credible. Secondly, it clearly identifies Jose Perdomo as the doorman, not a security guard.

He's a doorman, not a security guard nor "a special security guard assigned to aid Lennon in entering the Dakota" as you contend in the original OP.

I read somewhere that he was the Security Guard, as famous people lived in that building. But I stand corrected. Is the job title so important? :eek:

kc440

[Gravy]

No, Gravy, I don't understand why it would have been important if Perdomo was a guard at a different building and Lennon got shot there, rather than at the Dakota. :confused:

I have found a better site about Jose Perdomo. I think the conspiracy theory about Lennon's death is growing. These sites didn't exist a year or two ago.

http://forums.lionsgate.com/archive/index.php/t-4084.html

kc440
(Sigh)
Okay, so none of this is sinking in.

See, it's not a coincidence that Perdomo was the doorman at the Dakota on the night Lennon was shot. That's where he worked. As a doorman.

Capisce?

[kc440_]

(Sigh)
Okay, so none of this is sinking in.

See, it's not a coincidence that Perdomo was the doorman at the Dakota on the night Lennon was shot. That's where he worked. As a doorman.

Capisce?

I claim it's not a coincidence. Like President Kennedy's shooting and Oswald just happening to work at the Texas School Book Depository. It's quite possible Perdomo killed Lennon or was in on it. The creep was the patsy. Since Lennon was getting re-established as a person of note, the CIA struck in December when his album was out. :(

kc440

[Gravy]

I claim it's not a coincidence. Like President Kennedy's shooting and Oswald just happening to work at the Texas School Book Depository. It's quite possible Perdomo killed Lennon or was in on it. The creep was the patsy. Since Lennon was getting re-established as a person of note, the CIA struck in December when his album was out. :(

kc440
Um, hello? kc? I also claim it's not a coincidence that Perdomo was at the Dakota. That's where he worked. Now, if you have evidence that he was involved in the murder, present it now. Otherwise, stop dragging this poor guy's name through a pool of mud that you've created. That's rude.

Capisce?

[Piggy]

[Intercom]: Mr. Lawrence, Mr. Kincaid… Mr. Anderson is here to see you now.

L: Thanks, Pam. Send him in.

K: What’s this all about, anyway?

L: I dunno. Some job he wants done. Wouldn’t say over the phone.

A [entering]: Good morning, sirs.

L: Anderson

K: Anderson

L: Have a seat. Now… what’s your project?

A: Well, sirs, let me get right to the point. It’s John Lennon. I think it’s time we took him out.

K: Lenin? Who’s he, Russian expat?

A: No, sir. Lennon. The musician. You know, the radical. The druggie. The one with the wife.

L: You mean from the Beatles?

A: Yes, sir. The FBI kept a file on him for about seven, eight years. A very active radical, involved in international heroin traffic, a Communist revolutionary.

K: Oh, yeah. All those protests, the whole thing with John Sinclair and Angela Davis. I can’t believe we let him in the country.

L: Mm.

K: And didn’t he write that song, “Revolution”?

A: Yes he did, sir.

L: You mean the one with all the jibber-jabber?

K: No no, that was “Revolution Number Nine”. I mean the one about Chairman Mao.

L: Oh, right. And he wrote “Back in the USSR”, too.

K: No, I think that was… you know, the other guy… the cute one. The one who wrote “Silly Love Songs”.

L: Really? You mean [singing] “Da da da had enough of silly love songs…”

K: Yeah, that’s it.

L: You know, my wife loves that tune! That’s the same guy who wrote “Back in the USSR”?

K: You wouldn’t think so, but I’m pretty sure, yeah.

A: Sirs, I think we’re drifting away from the point, here.

K: Sorry. So why’d the Feebees close the file?

A: Well, sir, he ostensibly cleaned up and settled down, knocked off the radical activities and was a stay-at-home dad, so Jimmy thought…. Well, you know how Jimmy is – or “was”, if you get my drift.

L: [clears throat]

A: But he has a new album out, and from what I understand, it’s highly subversive. Could start stirring up trouble. Very left wing. And… I hate to bring this up, but… we believe it promotes pedophilia.

L: Huh?

A: I’m not kidding, this is how crazy he’s gotten. There’s a song, “Beautiful Boy”, with the lyric “I can hardly wait to see you come”. It’s really pretty sick.

L: Listen, Anderson, I don’t think we could justify any funding—

A: Oh, no problem, sir. We have a dark angel for this one. Says it’s long overdue after what Lennon’s done.

K: What do you know about this guy?

A: He knows Lennon. Personally. A real insider – or was, before our man turned Commie.

L: All right, so what’s your plan, Anderson?

A: Well, sir, we’ve managed to put a former operative in position at Lennon’s hotel. Former Bay of Pigger. He’s the doorman.

K: You’re gonna have the doorman shoot him?

A: No, he’s there for site management and cleanup. We need a patsy. Still working on that. We’re having a hard time finding anyone who wants to shoot John. And there’s a credibility gap.

K: Why not have someone try to shoot Yoko and miss? Hell, I’d believe that.

L: Well, if you’re gonna do that, might as well not miss. One less witness, right? And have you heard her records?

A: I’m sorry, we can’t go after Yoko. Her family’s very connected in Japanese finance. John’s family… well, they’re labor lefties.

K: What if we had an agent in the ambulance slip her a mickey… you know, induce a heart attack on the way to ER?

L: Kincaid—

K: Just brainstorming, here.

[Intercom flashes]

L: What is it, Pam?

[Intercom]: Sirs, sorry to interrupt, but there’s a call for Mr. Anderson in his office.

A: This is a very important meeting.

[Intercom]: Yes, sir, I understand, but it’s a Mr. Best, and he says it’s urgent. Something about having located a “candidate”?

A: Uh… actually, I probably better take this call. But you guys think it over, ok? That’s all I’m asking. Just give it some thought.

[Gravy]

A: Uh… actually, I probably better take this call. But you guys think it over, ok? That’s all I’m asking. Just give it some thought.
All they are saying, is "give death a chance." Is that so wrong?

[kc440_]

Um, hello? kc? I also claim it's not a coincidence that Perdomo was at the Dakota. That's where he worked. Now, if you have evidence that he was involved in the murder, present it now. Otherwise, stop dragging this poor guy's name through a pool of mud that you've created. That's rude.

Capisce?

His name is already in the mud. He worked for the CIA. He "guarded" John Lennon as a Doorman (I don't really see the difference). Read the link I presented last. There is something to this.

kc440

[Piggy]

His name is already in the mud. He worked for the CIA. He "guarded" John Lennon as a Doorman (I don't really see the difference). Read the link I presented last. There is something to this.
A doorman opens doors. A guard guards.

He is claimed to have worked for the CIA. Got evidence?

Even if he was an out-of-work Bay of Pigger who was in NYC working as a doorman at the Dakota, how does this demonstrate that the CIA was behind Chapman shooting Lennon?

What if the doorman had formerly been in the Army? Would this be evidence that the Army had Lennon shot?

What if he had been an out of work actor? Would that be evidence that the Screen Actors Guild (once headed by Reagan!) had him bumped off?

[kc440_]

All they are saying, is "give death a chance." Is that so wrong?

As long as there is death, there is hope.
--Brother Theodore

[kc440_]

A doorman opens doors. A guard guards.

He is claimed to have worked for the CIA. Got evidence?

Even if he was an out-of-work Bay of Pigger who was in NYC working as a doorman at the Dakota, how does this demonstrate that the CIA was behind Chapman shooting Lennon?

What if the doorman had formerly been in the Army? Would this be evidence that the Army had Lennon shot?

What if he had been an out of work actor? Would that be evidence that the Screen Actors Guild (once headed by Reagan!) had him bumped off?

What if he killed John Kennedy? What if he was a Watergate burglar?

kc440

[Piggy]

What if he killed John Kennedy? What if he was a Watergate burglar?
What if he hated licorice?

If you have some evidence that this guy was actually employed as a hit-man by the CIA at the time, then please present it.

But the very idea that the CIA would want to kill Lennon is ludicrous. And even if they did, why hire an assassin to stand idly by?

There is no scenario that makes sense here.

Btw, Liddy's plumbers were hacks, and no one in the Company would have hired them for anything.

[bob_kark]

What if he killed John Kennedy? What if he was a Watergate burglar?

kc440
Why would Oswald rise from the grave just to kill Lennon? Lennon wasn't even famous at the time Oswald died. I'm sorry kc440_, I can buy your reanimated corpses, but where's the motive?

[Gravy]

His name is already in the mud. He worked for the CIA. He "guarded" John Lennon as a Doorman (I don't really see the difference). Read the link I presented last. There is something to this.

kc440
Okay, you don't understand the difference between a bodyguard and a doorman. You can look those words up in a dictionary.

Now, kc, how do you know your CIA assassin isn't this (http://www.miamidadecie.com/jsp/agents/agent_overview.jsp?agentID=33421) Jose Perdomo, who actually is an Agent?

[senorpogo]

He "guarded" John Lennon as a Doorman (I don't really see the difference).

You don't see the difference? The two are completely different things. A guard protects a person while a doorman opens the door for them.

guard
9. a person or group of persons that guards, protects, or keeps a protective or restraining watch.

doorman
the door attendant of an apartment house, night club, etc., who acts as doorkeeper and performs minor services for entering and departing residents or guests.

For chrissakes, they're two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT words. Completely. It's like being unable to distinguish the difference between a butcher and a baker. "But they're both people!"

You really can't see the difference between this (http://www.asms.net/facultymanaged/srou/london/guard.jpg) and this (http://www.hotels.spb.ru/ghe/doorman.JPG)? I hope you're just trolling. Either way, the ignorance of the CT crowd is staggering.

[senorpogo]

Okay, you don't understand the difference between a bodyguard and a doorman. You can look those words up in a dictionary.

Now, kc, how do you know your CIA assassin isn't this (http://www.miamidadecie.com/jsp/agents/agent_overview.jsp?agentID=33421) Jose Perdomo, who actually is an Agent?

Century 21? Must be some kind of New World Order organization preparing the 21st century for eventual global dominance.

Hope you guys have fun in the FEMA camps!

[yodaluver28]

This is such a pointless discussion. We all know that the shooter was the one and only Billy Shears. ;)

[Dog Town]

This is such a pointless discussion. We all know that the shooter was the one and only Billy Shears. ;)

The question is: What would you do, if I sang out of tune?

[slingblade]

There is something to this.

Yes.

It means you are an official 25-Percenter.

Really.

[LashL]

I was 14 -- no, 13... my birthday was 4 days away -- out of elementary school (which was grades 1-6 for us). My brother was 15, and already working after school.

John was killed at about 11:00 Monday night. By the time it hit the news wires, we would have been in bed.

My brother heard it on the radio the next morning while I was in the shower, and he came and told me.

Of course it was all over the news. Anyone who listened to the radio or turned on the TV or saw a paper that morning knew about it. Obviously, Mrs. Stein heard about it and, knowing how much of an influence the Beatles' music was having on me at the time, understood that it was going to be shocking and sad for me.

So yes, despite the fact that all this is exactly what you'd expect to happen, it actually happened.

Makes perfect sense, Piggy. Sorry for sounding as though I thought otherwise. I was tired and misread your post and leapt to an unfouonded conclusion. My apologies.

[Piggy]

Makes perfect sense, Piggy. Sorry for sounding as though I thought otherwise. I was tired and misread your post and leapt to an unfounded conclusion. My apologies.
No problem. I've done it myself on those late night reads. Cheers -Piggy

[kc440_]

Yes.

It means you are an official 25-Percenter.

Really.

I don't know what that means. I know when I was a Freshman in High School, I took the National Educational Development Test, as did other Freshmen throughout the country. And guess what. I came out in the top 1% of the nation.

What detracts from this is I believe Harvey Oswald did not kill President Kennedy and 9-11 was an inside job. I'm very aware of this, but I don't care. :)

kc440

[Loss Leader]

Well, this shouldn't be too hard to crack. Mark David Chapman is alive and, apparantly, enjoys answering mail.

kc440, all you have to do is write to Chapman and ask him about your theory. The address is:

Mark D. Chapman
DIN 81A3860
Attica Correctional Facility
Exchange St.
Attica, New York 14011-0149

Of course, you won't write him because Chapman's first-hand denial of your pet theory would ruin all your fun.

[kc440_]

Now, kc, how do you know your CIA assassin isn't this (http://www.miamidadecie.com/jsp/agents/agent_overview.jsp?agentID=33421) Jose Perdomo, who actually is an Agent?

There's an artist named Jose Perdomo, there's an architect and a Real Estate Agent with no photo provided, named Jose Perdomo. I don't know if the CIA's Perdomo is still alive, but he had none of these identities.

kc440 :p

[Dog Town]

Well, this shouldn't be too hard to crack. Mark David Chapman is alive and, apparantly, enjoys answering mail.

Of course, you won't write him because Chapman's first-hand denial of your pet theory would ruin all your fun.

Paranoia's like his will never accept a letter! Hey kc how do you get online?
You know people are watching you, and following your every move, right?

[kc440_]

Well, this shouldn't be too hard to crack. Mark David Chapman is alive and, apparantly, enjoys answering mail.

kc440, all you have to do is write to Chapman and ask him about your theory. The address is:

Mark D. Chapman
DIN 81A3860
Attica Correctional Facility
Exchange St.
Attica, New York 14011-0149

Of course, you won't write him because Chapman's first-hand denial of your pet theory would ruin all your fun.

It is not my pet theory. I don't think about what happened much. I just enjoy the Beatles and how John was before Yoko hooked him. That's my reality.

I have no intention of writing to that creep and wouldn't believe anything he said. It's ironic that John and Yoko were on David Frost's show in the early '70's and the big argument Yoko had with the audience was that the prisoners of Attica should be released. They needed love. I would have liked to have said, "Let them move into your apartment building. So what if you get raped, Yoko? So what if they cut your throat? They need love."

Now the culprit in her husband's murder is in Attica and she has to come forward every few years to keep him in the joint.

kc440

kc440

[kc440_]

Paranoia's like his will never accept a letter! Hey kc how do you get online?
You know people are watching you, and following your every move, right?

I still love those dogs of 911. Maybe I should write a tribute to them.

kc440

[slingblade]

I don't know what that means.

South Park, episode 10-09.


I know when I was a Freshman in High School, I took the National Educational Development Test, as did other Freshmen throughout the country. And guess what. I came out in the top 1% of the nation.

Anecdotal and not relevant.

What detracts from this is I believe Harvey Oswald did not kill President Kennedy and 9-11 was an inside job. I'm very aware of this, but I don't care. :)

Welcome to My Mind Sorry, Closed.

[The Atheist]

I don't know what that means. I know when I was a Freshman in High School, I took the National Educational Development Test, as did other Freshmen throughout the country. And guess what. I came out in the top 1% of the nationThat would be the top 1% for gullibility and the abilty to subscribe to and promote ridiculous CT?
What detracts from this is I believe Harvey Oswald did not kill President Kennedy and 9-11 was an inside job. I'm very aware of this, but I don't care. :)

kc440That would be the top 1% for gullibility and the abilty to subscribe to and promote ridiculous CT?

[Gravy]

I don't know what that means. I know when I was a Freshman in High School, I took the National Educational Development Test, as did other Freshmen throughout the country. And guess what. I came out in the top 1% of the nation.And then, just that one day, that one fateful day, you didn't wear your bicycle helmet?

Sorry, kc, I don't believe you. Got some backup for that 1% statement? You can PM me, and I'll publicly eat crow. (ETA: never mind. I'd have no way of knowing if your backup was legit.)

Here are a few of the reasons why I don't believe you:

"I read Tom Flocco and Rense.com."
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1928890&postcount=20

http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/newversion/hb1.htm (http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/%7Eoyakodon/newversion/hb1.htm)
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1993616&postcount=96
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1996034&postcount=8
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1990300&postcount=37
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1969002&postcount=11
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1968975&postcount=16
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1928685&postcount=9
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1926882&postcount=20
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1926498&postcount=94
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1926274&postcount=74
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1911093&postcount=5
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1911067&postcount=58

[Loss Leader]

Is anybody going to write Chapman? Because it took me, like, fifteen minutes to track down the address.

[Brainache]

Is anybody going to write Chapman? Because it took me, like, fifteen minutes to track down the address.

Thanks for the effort LL, but I'd rather not. Fundamentalist christians who murder celebrities are not high on my list of people I want to contact.

I wish kc would stop trying to find patterns that don't exist. Or if he must, he should go watch the sky for a while and count the angels in the clouds or something.:hypnodisk

[brooklyn44]

Is anybody going to write Chapman? Because it took me, like, fifteen minutes to track down the address.

Hat tip to you!!! Nice reseach skills.:)

[yodaluver28]

I just don't get the conspiracies on this one, JFK, okay, maybe. But unlike Oswald, Chapman is alive and has been pretty open and candid about what he did, how, and why. What's the mystery here?

[Piggy]

Is anybody going to write Chapman?
Would you like me to? I spent a couple years researching a book on multiple murderers, so I have no qualms about writing him. Chapman obviously didn't fit on the list of people I was researching, but it doesn't skeeve me out to have a correspondence with him. If you're serious, I'll certainly oblige. What, specifically, do you want asked?

[Piggy]

I just don't get the conspiracies on this one, JFK, okay, maybe. But unlike Oswald, Chapman is alive and has been pretty open and candid about what he did, how, and why. What's the mystery here?

Per CT standards, Chapman's confession doesn't matter. He was a patsy. He was manipulated into doing what he did, and he's too mentally weak to understand that. Of course he believes he did it.

[Loss Leader]

Would you like me to? I spent a couple years researching a book on multiple murderers, so I have no qualms about writing him. Chapman obviously didn't fit on the list of people I was researching, but it doesn't skeeve me out to have a correspondence with him. If you're serious, I'll certainly oblige. What, specifically, do you want asked?

Oh, I don't care. I was just excited that I found his inmate number.

[Piggy]

Oh, I don't care. I was just excited that I found his inmate number.
OK.

But now that I've gotten to thinking about it, I might write him anyway.

[Muckar-duva]

Piggy, don't be The Last Victim. ;)

[Piggy]

Piggy, don't be The Last Victim. ;)
In my not-so-humble opinion, Moss is only slightly less freaky than the guys he wrote to.

I prefer authors like Michaud and Ayensworth. Their book on Bundy (http://www.amazon.com/Ted-Bundy-Conversations-Stephen-Michaud/dp/1928704174/sr=1-4/qid=1160882159/ref=sr_1_4/002-0115152-8261608?ie=UTF8&s=books) was absolutely brilliant.

FBI profiler John Douglas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=John%20E.%20Douglas&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/002-0115152-8261608) is also interesting, even if he's a bit full of himself and not the greatest wordsmith. Roy Hazelwood (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Roy%20Hazelwood&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/002-0115152-8261608) is another profiler worth reading, if you can stomach it.

[Brainache]

Jon Wiener's book "Come Together" mentions CTs about Lennon's murder. Apparently a Journalist called Fenton Bresler wrote a book in 1989 called "Who Killed John Lennon?". Of course he answers it was the CIA "worried that he would use his powerful influence in the cause of peace".
No evidence as usual, just speculation.

According to Wiener's book, Lennon's FBI file dates from 1972. Nixon's Attorney General received a memo from Senator Strom Thurmond suggesting Lennon be deported to counter plans for a series of anti-war concerts timed to coincide with the Presidential elections of that year. The administration began deportation procedings.

The FBI gathered information about a pot conviction Lennon had gotten in England in 1969 and used it as the basis for the deportation. Lennon won his case and wasn't deported. Nixon won his election and the FBI and CIA closed their files on John Lennon.

I just did about twenty seconds of googling and look what I found:

http://www.lennonfbifiles.com/

Lots of interesting stuff there.

[CptColumbo]

FBI profiler John Douglas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=John%20E.%20Douglas&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/002-0115152-8261608) is also interesting, even if he's a bit full of himself and not the greatest wordsmith. Roy Hazelwood (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Roy%20Hazelwood&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/002-0115152-8261608) is another profiler worth reading, if you can stomach it.

I found Douglas' last book Anyone You Want Me to Be, to be his best work to date. This might be because he didn't write it with Mark Olshaker (I may have gotten the spelling wrong). Douglas does seem to recap his career, and his importance to the FBI and Profiling in his earlier books. He keeps telling the story of when he nearly died tracking the "Green River Killer." However, I think some of that may be an attempt to make a book where you don't have to read his first (Mindhunters)to learn about his qualifications and his experiences.

The Cases That Haunt Us is a good read for any skeptics of conspiracy theories.

[Piggy]

In some investigations, the investigators themselves become prone to CT explanations, if their biases are strong enough.

Take the Wayne Williams case. There were many involved in the case (which, btw, was recently re-opened and had to be closed again when no new evidence was found) who believed that the killer must have been white, and the Klan was likely involved.

Yet this made no sense. Given the locations and circumstances of these kids' disappearances, and the fact that they continued even after the community had been alerted, it was extremely unlikely that a white man was (or white men were) walking off with these boys.

But race relations being what they are/were, and given a strong popular feeling that a black man would not be kidnapping and killing black kids, plus the even-then-predominant public image of a serial killer as a white man, many investigators remained highly resistant to the theory that the killer could be black. And there are some who still hold to this bias.

In the case of Danny Harold Rolling's murders, which occurred in Gainesville Florida while I was living there, early suspicion focused on a mentally unstable young man named Ed Humphrey. Even after Rolling was apprehended, his campsite searched, and his self-recorded audio tapes listened to, there were some investigators who were reluctant to let go of the Humphrey theory, to the extent that they conjured up a totally unsupported two-man theory which posited that these loners -- one local, one a transient; one mildly disturbed, one obviously psychopathic -- somehow teamed up for the crimes.