What it's like in the WMD investigation teams

[a_unique_person]

I think that US intelligence is going to get a big backlash from all of this, not counting that in process already.

It appears that much of the 'intelligence' was so much school boy dreams. Did JK get the job in that intelligence agency he was after, it appears he did.



Three months and still no sign of the WMDs
June 17 2003


Australian inspectors are at the sharp end of a fruitless search for Iraq's suspected stockpiles of illicit weapons.

The latest US intelligence, presented at a morning briefing here and backed by satellite photos and reconnaissance reports, was specific and unnerving.

Saddam Hussein, a team of US and Australian weapons hunters was told, might have built drone aircraft rigged with nozzles to spray poison gases, plus two short-range missiles with warheads designed to carry deadly chemicals or germs, at the former Ibn Fernas aeronautics research centre. The team's mission: Find the drones and use portable X-ray gear to peer into the warheads.

Donning flak vests and helmets, and loading their weapons, the 26-member team climbed into six Humvees and four-wheel-drives and sped to the sprawling complex just north of the reeking mountains of the Baghdad city dump.

They quickly found the "drones": five burned and blackened three-metre wings dumped near the front gate. "It could have been a student project or maybe a model," the team's expert, US Air Force Captain Libbie Boehm, said with a shrug.

The "missiles" were found too, after a bit of searching through a junk heap: two discarded casings of artillery rockets.



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/16/1055615731122.html

(Sourced to LA Times)

They might have built drones that could spray poison gases. The evidence, some charred wings that might have been something a schoolboy made.

[Gem]

Saddam's grandson's science project? I bet it would won first prize, or else:mad:

Gem

[Monketey Ghost]

There will be no backlash. Nobody cares. We won the war, Hussein's out of power now.

After all, how many people are asking where Osama is anymore?

Nobody cares.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
They might have built drones that could spray poison gases. The evidence, some charred wings that might have been something a schoolboy made.

What? It appears we intervened during the r&d phase of the program? Is this better/worse than finding more evolved models? You know, I wouldn't expect the drones to be lockheed marten quality.

I am not sure why this has such a negative spin. Especially since it would indicate that Saddam was still pursueing WMD delivery systems and implicates he probably still had WMD agents he intended to use with them.

[corplinx]

Did I mention that after the LA Times ran the BBC Private Lynch rescue hoax that I have very little regard for their take on things?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by corplinx


What? It appears we intervened during the r&d phase of the program? Is this better/worse than finding more evolved models? You know, I wouldn't expect the drones to be lockheed marten quality.

I am not sure why this has such a negative spin. Especially since it would indicate that Saddam was still pursueing WMD delivery systems and implicates he probably still had WMD agents he intended to use with them.

They might have been a schoolboy project. They also might have been designed to take micro-nukes to kill the martians.

[ImpyTimpy]

You're not serious are you... I mean... We're talking models of planes here which even if used for military applications most likely would be used as intelligence gathering drones... But here you are labelling it as R&D into delivery systems... What's next? You'll be labelling toy radio controlled cars under the same banner?

Originally posted by corplinx


What? It appears we intervened during the r&d phase of the program? Is this better/worse than finding more evolved models? You know, I wouldn't expect the drones to be lockheed marten quality.

I am not sure why this has such a negative spin. Especially since it would indicate that Saddam was still pursueing WMD delivery systems and implicates he probably still had WMD agents he intended to use with them.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


They might have been a schoolboy project. They also might have been designed to take micro-nukes to kill the martians.

Sounds mighty ambitious for a schoolboy project to have wings that measure three meters.

Also from the article:
After visiting more than 300 suspect Iraqi facilities, from pesticide plants to hospital laboratories, the weapons teams have hit all the priority sites identified before the war by US intelligence. Most were so heavily bombed, or so badly looted, that any potential evidence was long gone.

And the 16 months of "diplomacy" leading up to the war didn't give the Iraqis much time to hide, export or destroy any evidence, either.

[ImpyTimpy]

Interesting...

They quickly found the "drones": five burned and blackened three-metre wings dumped near the front gate. "It could have been a student project or maybe a model," the team's expert, US Air Force Captain Libbie Boehm, said with a shrug.

We have the team's expert give the suggestion that it's a student project or a model, yet we have you, who hasn't seen it and is not an expert (correct me if I'm wrong) tell us otherwise? You have any evidence which suggests it was anything besides what the expert in the team described?

Also I am confused... Are you claiming that Iraq exported the weapons throughout the 16 months, so when the inspections started Iraq no longer had WMD's? So the intelligence was wrong anyway?

If so, could you please tell us all how you know these things? Are you a psychic?

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


Sounds mighty ambitious for a schoolboy project to have wings that measure three meters.

Also from the article:


And the 16 months of "diplomacy" leading up to the war didn't give the Iraqis much time to hide, export or destroy any evidence, either.

[corplinx]

There was intelligence about drone with sprayers. We don't who the intelligence came from. Was is a scientist not directly involved who said he knew of such a project?

Is this is a case of people's expectations not meeting reality when it turns out the project was in its infancy?

[MRC_Hans]

I think all this is moot. It has already been established that the Bush administration lied (or presented distorted information, if you prefer) to get support for the offensive. We need to deal with that; it's not a big sensation, politicians do it all the time, it's simply another brick in the wall.

As for Saddam: So it turned out that he was just a paper tiger; his mighty armies were tatters, his WMD were scrap. However, before the offensive, his roars were quite loud, so nobody can be surprised that the hunters were called in.

What else would anybody suggest should have been done?

- Should we have waited to see if he was actually able to gas or nuke somebody?

- Should we have ignored him while he kept on butchering his population?

- Should we have waited to see if he would have invaded another neighboor?

- Do you think the situation in Iraq would be neater if we had just waited for him to die of old age?

IMHO, Saddam Hussein was an ongoing disaster, and there was no neat and clean solution, only more or less dirty ones. We picked one, and now he is gone. Instead of bickering, we should work on giving that poor country a future.

Hans

[a_unique_person]

I was more interested in just what is going on in those teams out to find the WMD.

It can be a point of view that we all have to get on with it, and move on.

However, we will be seriously missing the fact that 'intelligence' that is used to prosecute something as serious as a war, can be so off that it appears to be sheer fantasy.

Make sure youd don't have any model planes that look too suspicous, or long, cylindrical objects around your home.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
You're not serious are you... I mean... We're talking models of planes here which even if used for military applications most likely would be used as intelligence gathering drones... But here you are labelling it as R&D into delivery systems... What's next? You'll be labelling toy radio controlled cars under the same banner?


Obivously it is you who isn't taking things seriously.

Click here (http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html) and you will learn that 9/11 was in fact caused by remote controlled planes.

Clearly Saddam was testing 'Bumble Planes' of his very own.

He was stopped just in the nick of time. For now, freedom is safe.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I was more interested in just what is going on in those teams out to find the WMD.

I assume the reports will filter through, eventually

It can be a point of view that we all have to get on with it, and move on.

However, we will be seriously missing the fact that 'intelligence' that is used to prosecute something as serious as a war, can be so off that it appears to be sheer fantasy.

Yup! But thats nothing new. How much intelligence used to conduct the Cold War do you think was pure fabrication and loose rumors?

Make sure youd don't have any model planes that look too suspicous, or long, cylindrical objects around your home.

But that's the point: I can build a perfect model of a Scud in my backyard, and at most, the local police will come around and ask politely to have a look. But Saddam was expected to have the stuff, an expectation he did much to fuel himself, so things are interpreted differently.

Originally posted by Mr. Manifesto

Click here and you will learn that 9/11 was in fact caused by remote controlled planes.

Another idiot conspiracy site. A small jet? We SAW them 757s, remember?

Clearly Saddam was testing 'Bumble Planes' of his very own.

"Clearly"? Make that "possibly". I have news for you: A 3meter primitive plane can't carry enough explosives to do more damage than a tank cannon shell.

He was stopped just in the nick of time. For now, freedom is safe.

Assuming he was the only threat to freedom :rolleyes:



Hans

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Click here (http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html) and you will learn that 9/11 was in fact caused by remote controlled planes.



:confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

;)

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I think all this is moot. It has already been established that the Bush administration lied (or presented distorted information, if you prefer) to get support for the offensive. We need to deal with that; it's not a big sensation, politicians do it all the time, it's simply another brick in the wall.

As for Saddam: So it turned out that he was just a paper tiger; his mighty armies were tatters, his WMD were scrap. However, before the offensive, his roars were quite loud, so nobody can be surprised that the hunters were called in.

What else would anybody suggest should have been done?

- Should we have waited to see if he was actually able to gas or nuke somebody?

- Should we have ignored him while he kept on butchering his population?

- Should we have waited to see if he would have invaded another neighboor?

- Do you think the situation in Iraq would be neater if we had just waited for him to die of old age?

IMHO, Saddam Hussein was an ongoing disaster, and there was no neat and clean solution, only more or less dirty ones. We picked one, and now he is gone. Instead of bickering, we should work on giving that poor country a future.

Hans

Very interesting post Hans...
I still am very ambivelent about the whole thing.

If it did more good than harm, I guess it was the right decision.

[Monketey Ghost]

Sort of missed Sr. Manifesto's sarcasm, didn't you?

[Mr Manifesto]

I had hoped that the people who used this forum would be sharp enough to notice obvious sarcasm. Live and learn. :D