Double-think

[pdoherty76]

I would be interested in peoples views on this. In an alex jones video a lady on the street is asked about the london bombing and the subsequent shooting of the brazilian man on the tube train.

She says something startling: "i am prepared to give up my liberty for freedom"

are liberty and freedom different?

Jones makes the connection to the doublethink in 1984. war is peace, freedom is slavery etc

its convincing to me. but hey im just a fruitloop

[Oliver]

My translator says:

liberty: n. Freiheit; Entlassung; Frechheit

freedom: n. Freiheit; Emanzipation; Unabhängigkeit; Befreiung; Freilassung; Entlassung; Offenheit; freier Zugriff

Looks different. :D

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Doublethink, in 1984, is specifically believing something to be true while at the same time knowing it to be false.

The "war is peace", etc, is Newspeak; which is the idea of redefining meanings, and changing how language is used to make it a form of propaganda.

The idea of giving up personal liberties in exchange for "freedom" (in this case freedom from some fear, whether real or imaginary) is not a new idea and one which political philosophers have struggled with for a long time.

[rikzilla]

It makes a great sound-bite....but isn't it more likely that this random lady in the street either mis-spoke, was under-educated, or simply is stupid? In any case I rather think a random lady in the street is a terribly small sample to use as evidence of the encroachment of the Orwellian state.

-z

[pdoherty76]

ok let me expand on it.

Bush said the terrorists attack america because they hate your freedoms, surely taking civil liberties away means the terrorists have won?

In the last ten years more people in america have been shot by the police than killed by terrorists. i cant see why america has become the place of fear it has. surely the best tactic against any terrorist is to continue life as normal so their terror doesnt work.

In my fruitloop opinion, and no i cant give u hard evidence, i think the culture of fear helps the american government

[Darth Rotor]

ok let me expand on it.

Bush said the terrorists attack america because they hate your freedoms, surely taking civil liberties away means the terrorists have won?

In the last ten years more people in america have been shot by the police than killed by terrorists. i cant see why america has become the place of fear it has. surely the best tactic against any terrorist is to continue life as normal so their terror doesnt work.

In my fruitloop opinion, and no i cant give u hard evidence, i think the culture of fear helps the american government
Osama has already won a significant battle at the psychological level. Go fly on any airplane in the US, compare the experience to September of 2000, and consider the profound difference in atmosphere. The great garment rending, gnashing of teeth, and over weepy memorialization of the 9-11 attack is an ongoing tribute to Osama.

Way to cheer the enemy, idiots. I had once heard that giving aid and comfort to the enemy was called treason.

DR

[DarkMagician]

A good example of either idiocy or doublethink, from our friend, PD'oh.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_177245352d748d161.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2070)

[Hellbound]

ok let me expand on it.

Bush said the terrorists attack america because they hate your freedoms, surely taking civil liberties away means the terrorists have won?

In the last ten years more people in america have been shot by the police than killed by terrorists. i cant see why america has become the place of fear it has. surely the best tactic against any terrorist is to continue life as normal so their terror doesnt work.

In my fruitloop opinion, and no i cant give u hard evidence, i think the culture of fear helps the american government

IN the last 100 years more people have been shot by police than by terrorists.

THat's a meaningless sound bite. How many of these were justified (as in, police shooting someone who shot at them first)? How many were crimes in which the police in question were punished and jailed? How many were justified shootings, and how many were actually indicative of some sort of problem?

The only culture of fear I see is among the CTers, such as yourself, who want to foster an intense fear and distrust of our own government. Such a fear that leads one to refuse government services and assistence, or to hide away in order to maintain anonymity, or to refrain from speaking their mind so as not to be identified.

I see more of the culture of fear being spread by those against the government than by those in it.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

ok let me expand on it.

Bush said the terrorists attack america because they hate your freedoms, surely taking civil liberties away means the terrorists have won?

In the last ten years more people in america have been shot by the police than killed by terrorists. i cant see why america has become the place of fear it has. surely the best tactic against any terrorist is to continue life as normal so their terror doesnt work.

In my fruitloop opinion, and no i cant give u hard evidence, i think the culture of fear helps the american government

It is that course of action that is the root of many debates nowadays. Based on your comments I assume you do not live in the US, so I don't know what access you have to the political/social/civil discourse/debates going on. There are, on a daily basis, debates and contention over such things as: wiretapping, Gitmo, overseas interrogation, etc.

The crux is that these discussions/debates/arguments are being held in public, visible areas; be it message boards, TV, radio, newspapers, e-news, or on the floor of Congress itself. The point is that it is not being pulled off in a clandestine manner and public dissent is part of the discourse on the subjects.

[pdoherty76]

the public cant dissent because the =y are then called traitors and terrorist symathisers. Fetzer on o'reilly was a typical example. O' reilly called on the fbi to investigate him.

Where is ur evidence that i, or anyone like me, supports terrorism.

My country and indeed my city of manchester was bombed for years by the IRA. Do you think i support that?

[Spindrift]

ok let me expand on it.

Bush said the terrorists attack america because they hate your freedoms, surely taking civil liberties away means the terrorists have won?

In the last ten years more people in america have been shot by the police than killed by terrorists. i cant see why america has become the place of fear it has. surely the best tactic against any terrorist is to continue life as normal so their terror doesnt work.

In my fruitloop opinion, and no i cant give u hard evidence, i think the culture of fear helps the american government

Okay, but couldn't it just be the government taking advantage of the situation instead of creating the situation in the first place?

And what does comparing the number of people killed by police with the number killed by terrorists have to do with anything? Are you implying that police are killing innocent people like terrorists are doing? Otherwise the comparison doesn't mean much.

[Hellbound]

IN the last 100 years more people have been shot by police than by terrorists.

THat's a meaningless sound bite. How many of these were justified (as in, police shooting someone who shot at them first)? How many were crimes in which the police in question were punished and jailed? How many were justified shootings, and how many were actually indicative of some sort of problem?

The only culture of fear I see is among the CTers, such as yourself, who want to foster an intense fear and distrust of our own government. Such a fear that leads one to refuse government services and assistence, or to hide away in order to maintain anonymity, or to refrain from speaking their mind so as not to be identified.

I see more of the culture of fear being spread by those against the government than by those in it.

the public cant dissent because the =y are then called traitors and terrorist symathisers. Fetzer on o'reilly was a typical example. O' reilly called on the fbi to investigate him.

Where is ur evidence that i, or anyone like me, supports terrorism.

My country and indeed my city of manchester was bombed for years by the IRA. Do you think i support that?

*ahem*

[pdoherty76]

spindrift the comparison could have used other examples, i believe more people die from choking than are killed by terrorists aswell.

You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd

[pdoherty76]

"the power of nightmares" documentary is very compelling. it isnt made by internet hacks, its made by the BBC

[T.A.M.]

Fear, in fact, helps all of us. Without fear we can become careless. Without fear we can sing ourselves into a sleep of self-security.

Does fear benifit the government? I guess, if you believe the government is controlled solely by rich corporations who would benifit financially from the production of items to make us feel safer, or production of arms to fight for our safety...this is AJ's take, right?

So, explain this. If the goal of the Republican party was to obtain control of the USG, as it did, and then to rule forever, through its "State of Fear". Why would it then bury itself in a war, causing it to sustain the worse popularity figures in years, and in all likelihood cost itself not only control of the law making congress, but also the ruling executive?

So you will say the war has generated alot of money for the defense companies...yes that is true, but why did they not plant some WMDs and covertly set up some WMD facilities. They had Saddam on the run, they could have very easily dropped a few covert ops down with said weapons and equipment, and then a week or two later...oooh look what we found....see we told you he had WMDs and was building more...then they could have stayed there much longer AND enjoyed public approval. Do you really think they wanted all this power, only to be sloppy/stupid enough to lose it eight years later?

I mean if this same govt could pull off something as complex as 9/11, the planting of WMDs and facilities, should be childs play.

Why could this evil cabal of a govt not keep a godamn pediphilic indiscretion quiet? Why could this evil cabal not keep Abramoff silent? It so godamn rediculous to think that the mighty all evil, all powerful USG, capable of a sinister, and super complex attack (for them to have pulled it off with noone finding it out, would have been extremely complex) like 9/11, could not keep such simple things out of the public eye, yet now they will lose congress and the executive because of it all...come on.

TAM

[Sword_Of_Truth]

By "double-think", do you mean like a guy who lies about having a degree, then has his ass handed to him then tries to recover by saying "I only lied to make you uncover the lie so I could show the world I control you."?

Or is there something else you were referring to?

[Popeholden]

doherty you are right in that the government has cultivated this fear of terrorism in order to further their foriegn policy, but while that's pretty sick in and of itself it doesn't mean we live in a police state, and it certainly doesn't mean that they orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. it's politics, man.

while the grand chessboard certainly exposes the Bush admin's foreign policy mindset, the PNAC document doesn't say what you think it says. i suggest you read the entire document, or even that entire section, before assuming anything.

are you now accusing Zbigniew Brzezinski (sp sorry it's a toughy and i'm lazy) of having foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks?

[T.A.M.]

Have you read the PNAC paper you are quoting from. I havent, but I have read the 4-5 pages before and after the "Pearl Harbour" quote. If you were to do so, you would realize that the context of that quote is vitally important. They are referring to the creation/production/bringing to fruition of NEW INTELLIGENT DEFENSE WEAPONRY and SYSTEMS, when they refer to needing a "new Pearl Harbour" to make this change (to more intelligent defense systems) acceptable to the public. The Aghanistan and Iraq wars have not done that one Iota. they have brought about the use of regular defense/offese weaponry. It has not lead to any change to new defense systems. It is not what they wanted, or what they were talking about in the paper.

Read it...go ahead...

TAM

[pdoherty76]

my degree is real. alex will im sure confirm that

[Spindrift]

spindrift the comparison could have used other examples, i believe more people die from choking than are killed by terrorists aswell.

The comparison of the number of people killed by method X to the number killed by terrorists has no meaning unless you can make a correlation between the terrorist killings and the method X deaths.


You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd

They are planning on bombing Hawaii?

[Hellbound]

Ah yes, and we all know Alex is a paragon of integrity :rolleyes:

[pdoherty76]

its sad when the best arguments you can come up with are to accuse people of lying about a degree. the degree is real, talk to Dr Peter Eccles , my tutor

[Popeholden]

i don't think i've ever seen an unbiased alex jones piece

[pdoherty76]

alex emailed my tutor, he claims he will post thwe email in its entireity

[Popeholden]

its sad when the best arguments you can come up with are to accuse people of lying about a degree. the degree is real, talk to Dr Peter Eccles , my tutor

you seem to have missed my post

[pdoherty76]

the power of nightmares isnt biased, watch it

[Bell]

<snip>

They are planning on bombing Hawaii?

They did... yesterday :eek:

[Hellbound]

its sad when the best arguments you can come up with are to accuse people of lying about a degree. the degree is real, talk to Dr Peter Eccles , my tutor

I'm not accussing you or anything. The best arguments are the ones you've continually failed to address, instead falling back on the "it's just my opinion" cop-out because you have nothing beyond conjecture.

I was remarking on the rather humorous idea of using Alex Jones as a confirmation source. That's sort of like hiring Ghandi as your tactical advisor for a war, or getting Pol Pot to back up your theories on human rights.

Doesn't lend much credibility.

Personally, I don't care if you have a degree or not...except that if you do, I'd like to know which college, so I don't mistakenly send any of my children to a place that would allow someone to graduate that gets as many things wrong as you do.

[pdoherty76]

popeholden i didnt ignore ur post, i was dealing with the degree-denier cretin

im not claiming pnac and the chessboard fiasco are hard evidence, they are circumstantial but also reason to investigate

[Popeholden]

why are they reason to investigate?

[pdoherty76]

because they show a mindset in which this could take place. all previous investigations have had conflicts of interest

[T.A.M.]

Have you read the PNAC paper you are quoting from. I havent, but I have read the 4-5 pages before and after the "Pearl Harbour" quote. If you were to do so, you would realize that the context of that quote is vitally important. They are referring to the creation/production/bringing to fruition of NEW INTELLIGENT DEFENSE WEAPONRY and SYSTEMS, when they refer to needing a "new Pearl Harbour" to make this change (to more intelligent defense systems) acceptable to the public. The Aghanistan and Iraq wars have not done that one Iota. they have brought about the use of regular defense/offese weaponry. It has not lead to any change to new defense systems. It is not what they wanted, or what they were talking about in the paper.

Read it...go ahead...

TAM

In case you missed it PD, while defending your credentials, which I believe to be valid.

TAM

[Hellbound]

because they show a mindset in which this could take place. all previous investigations have had conflicts of interest

Name one.

[pdoherty76]

no huntsman i wont

[Hellbound]

no huntsman i wont

No conflicts of interest....noted.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

the public cant dissent because the =y are then called traitors and terrorist symathisers. Fetzer on o'reilly was a typical example. O' reilly called on the fbi to investigate him.

Where is ur evidence that i, or anyone like me, supports terrorism.

My country and indeed my city of manchester was bombed for years by the IRA. Do you think i support that?

O'Reilly is a political pundit (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/pundit). The only "power" he has is the people he can influence while yelling from his soapbox. Though a part of mainstream media, O'Reilly is really in a similar position to A. Jones.

If you want to get a real idea of the discussion going on, and not just the political lapdog yapping, watch C-SPAN, or PBS; or listen to NPR, CBC, or BBC.

And consider this; how is O'Reilly calling Fetzer a "traitor" any different from A. Jones calling people such as Mark Roberts "shills" or "traitors"? It's rhetoric. It's designed to stir up emotion in the support base of the person making the comment. It is not, however, on par with what happened with McCarthy.

[uk_dave]

"the power of nightmares" documentary is very compelling. it isnt made by internet hacks, its made by the BBC

What do you think of the (fairly) recent documentaries made by Peter Taylor regarding AQ?

As far as I can recall, 'the power of nightmares' spent the first two episodes explaining how the neocons and AQ both developed, and then spent the final episode claiming AQ didn't exist.

Peter Taylor is a very respected journalist. He seems to believe AQ exist. Do you?

[Popeholden]

because they show a mindset in which this could take place. all previous investigations have had conflicts of interest

they show a mindset in which the practical idea that the American people support military action and spending more when there is an attack made on the American people. this is a truth, and it is verifiable by looking at history.

it does not indicate, in any sense, that these men would CAUSE an attack on america.

[fsol]

the power of nightmares isnt biased, watch it

I've seen it. What do you think it proves?

[chipmunk stew]

I've noticed that a lot of you CTs seem to be under the impression that our society has been on a steady, linear slide away from liberty.

In reality, there's always been tension between individual liberty and collective restriction in every society, and in the US it's been vibrating back and forth across a fairly narrow bandwidth since 1776. The overall trend has been towards greater individual liberty. I find it odd that this is not obvious to you.

[chipmunk stew]

And consider this; how is O'Reilly calling Fetzer a "traitor" any different from A. Jones calling people such as Mark Roberts "shills" or "traitors"? It's rhetoric. It's designed to stir up emotion in the support base of the person making the comment. It is not, however, on par with what happened with McCarthy.
And that wasn't even on par with a number of things that happened earlier in our country's history.

[Gravy]

the power of nightmares isnt biased, watch it
I did. It's extremely biased.

Alex Jones is a fear salesman. That's his whole schtick. He doesn't have the slightest interest in the truth. Did you read about his behavior in my WTC 7 paper? Do you approve of it?

[Hellbound]

And that wasn't even on par with a number of things that happened earlier in our country's history.

Very true.

BUt you know, there'd be all this evidence of what's going on now if everyone weren't afraid to talk about it...and the government is planning a new world order, and the world will end soon, and we're all in danger of our government, and it's going to facism, and...and...and...

I'm sorry, who was fear-mongering again?

[Gravy]

You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd
It's nice to look at references. But what do you have to say about them?

[uk_dave]

I would be interested in peoples views on this. In an alex jones video a lady on the street is asked about the london bombing and the subsequent shooting of the brazilian man on the tube train.

She says something startling: "i am prepared to give up my liberty for freedom"

are liberty and freedom different?

Jones makes the connection to the doublethink in 1984. war is peace, freedom is slavery etc

its convincing to me. but hey im just a fruitloop

It's an interesting proposition.

But don't we already give up some liberties for our freedom or safety?

We are not at liberty to drive at whatever speed we want on public roads
We are not at liberty to drive without wearing a seatbelt.
We are not at liberty to travel from one country to another without showing some form of approved identification
We are not at liberty to earn money without paying taxes to the government which may then spend our money on things we don't want or don't use.
We are not (in the UK) at liberty to own any and all firearms we can afford and use them for our own personal 'safety'

We do accept many infringements on what might be called our liberty because we live in societies which have rules.

When, in an heightened atmosphere such as that after a failed terrorist attack in london, the police make a tragic mistake and shoot dead someone completely unconnected with terrorism, we are not saying "oh that's ok, it's the price you have to pay for being free" anymore than we would if a major bank robbery was occuring and armed police accidentally shot dead a civilian during a firefight with the bank robbers. We don't say "It's ok, it's to be expected". But at the end of the day tragic accidents will happen and we have to live with it while expecting of those who are set to protect us a greater degree of care and improved systems of control in future.

[Gravy]

the public cant dissent because the =y are then called traitors and terrorist symathisers.
The public can't dissent? They dissent every wekend at Ground Zero. Last month over a thousand of them were there dissenting all over lower Manhattan. They were protected by the police (mostly from traffic), not stopped by them. Meanwhile, Alex Jones was on his bullhorn ranting about the "police state." I'm proud that my tax dollars goes into the protection of such rights.

If someone calls them names, so what? People call me names. That's their right. I can handle it. It's when they attempt to try to stop me from exercising my rights – which people on your side have done – that I get mad.

pdoherty, do you EVER stop to think before you post?

[MarkyX]

Wikipedia


Doublethink (known in Oldspeak but never used as reality control) is an integral concept in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, and is the act of holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, fervently believing both, and being unaware of their incompatibility.


Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.


CLAIM 1: Bush is stupid moron who almost got killed by a preztel

CLAIM 2: Bush created the most elaborate scheme (9/11) to go to war.



CLAIM 1: The Twin Towers fell on their own footprint

CLAIM 2: Debris was spit out from the towers at over one hundred feet in distance. Clearly evidence of explosive devices



CLAIM 1: There is no way 19 arabs pulled off 9/11

CLAIM 2: The New World Order consists of a small group of people who wish to dominate the world. They are "black operatives" (AJ's own words) and control everything.



CLAIM 1: We are doing this because we are patriots who love our country and don't want to see another Hitler in power.

CLAIM 2: We will use American Free Press to spread this information and get our facts. AFP is owned by Willis Carto, who is a holocaust denier and also runs the Barnes Review. The Barnes Review has an article on how Hitler should've won the Noble Peace Prize.



CLAIM 1: We believe in freedom

CLAIM 2: But we will not tolerate those who oppose us and outright silence them if we can. (Democracy Now debate, every 9/11 Denier forum board). If you oppose our views, you are either too stupid or paid off. Those who favor gun control are Nazis (Alex Jones words!)



CLAIM 1: We are in this for truth

CLAIM 2: However, we will quote mine witnesses, fire fighters, and manipulate audo/footage to stick with our claims.


You guys fall victim to 1984 over and over. Don't get me started with "Ignorance is Strength" bit.

[JamesB]

spindrift the comparison could have used other examples, i believe more people die from choking than are killed by terrorists aswell.

You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd

What "pearl harbour references"? Like this one from Rebuilding America's Defenses (on page 67, but I don't think any conspiracy theorists have ever read that far)?

Absent a rigorous program of experimentation to investigate the nature of the revolution in military affairs as it applies to war at sea, the Navy might face a future Pearl Harbor – as unprepared for war in the post-carrier era as it was unprepared for war at the dawn of the carrier age.

Ooh, sounds pretty damning. I am sure you can get an indictment based on that alone.

[uk_dave]

What "pearl harbour references"? Like this one from Rebuilding America's Defenses (on page 67, but I don't think any conspiracy theorists have ever read that far)?



Ooh, sounds pretty damning. I am sure you can get an indictment based on that alone.


And it's always handy when conspirators publish their intentions online...possibly while chewing on the nail of their little fingers and cackling wildly.

Though that is, of course, optional... in NWO circles.

[Pardalis]

Wikipedia

Wikipedia

Quote:
Doublethink (known in Oldspeak but never used as reality control) is an integral concept in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, and is the act of holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, fervently believing both, and being unaware of their incompatibility.
Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.

Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.

Quote:
CLAIM 1: Bush is stupid moron who almost got killed by a preztel

CLAIM 2: Bush created the most elaborate scheme (9/11) to go to war.
Quote:

CLAIM 1: The Twin Towers fell on their own footprint

CLAIM 2: Debris was spit out from the towers at over one hundred feet in distance. Clearly evidence of explosive devices


CLAIM 1: There is no way 19 arabs pulled off 9/11

CLAIM 2: The New World Order consists of a small group of people who wish to dominate the world. They are "black operatives" (AJ's own words) and control everything.


CLAIM 1: We are doing this because we are patriots who love our country and don't want to see another Hitler in power.

CLAIM 2: We will use American Free Press to spread this information and get our facts. AFP is owned by Willis Carto, who is a holocaust denier and also runs the Barnes Review. The Barnes Review has an article on how Hitler should've won the Noble Peace Prize.


CLAIM 1: We believe in freedom

CLAIM 2: But we will not tolerate those who oppose us and outright silence them if we can. (Democracy Now debate, every 9/11 Denier forum board). If you oppose our views, you are either too stupid or paid off. Those who favor gun control are Nazis (Alex Jones words!)


CLAIM 1: We are in this for truth

CLAIM 2: However, we will quote mine witnesses, fire fighters, and manipulate audo/footage to stick with our claims.

You guys fall victim to 1984 over and over. Don't get me started with "Ignorance is Strength" bit.

Terrific post Marky.

[pdoherty76]

It's nice to look at references. But what do you have to say about them?


i think they are very suspicious given that an event compered to pearl harbour then happened and the neocons immediately started referring to it as an "opportunity"

With regard to alex jones, i personally think he is a brave man who confronts people that most people wont.

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

[Matthew Best]

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

Wow. You really should open your eyes a bit more, then.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

i think they are very suspicious given that an event compered to pearl harbour then happened and the neocons immediately started referring to it as an "opportunity"

With regard to alex jones, i personally think he is a brave man who confronts people that most people wont.

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

Excuse me? The Branch Davidians, which it has been shown conclusively, to have set the fire themselves as well as having shot the children so they wouldn't flee the fire?

[uk_dave]

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

oh bugger. So you don't think alex jones is a deranged right wing religious nut job with the intellect of a 14 year old who went from a one room home radio station to his current 'status' on the basis of one crappy video from bohemian grove and an expansion of his pathological paranoid fear of the world fueled by the adoration of another load of 14 year olds in black t-shirts?

Shame, because I do.

[joobz]

Fear, in fact, helps all of us. Without fear we can become careless. Without fear we can sing ourselves into a sleep of self-security.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

---
Has politicians used Terrorist events for political gain?
Sure, it would be foolish not to use such tragedy politically. Especially if it results in proper corrective actions. (e.g., Going after Taliban).

The greatest crux to the terrorism CT issue is, What happens in 2 years? Bush can't go for another election. Who takes over this clever control of america?

[pdoherty76]

Excuse me? The Branch Davidians, which it has been shown conclusively, to have set the fire themselves as well as having shot the children so they wouldn't flee the fire?

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

[uk_dave]

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

Good grief.

You REALLY need to get out more.

[pdoherty76]

uk dave where is your proof of 14 year olds? i am not 14 so that immediately disproves it.

what a commited man alexs jones is to broadcast from his bedroom and infiltrate bohemian grove

[pdoherty76]

uk dave im still waiting for your evidence. we are strict here at jref we like people who have evidence to back up their claims

[pdoherty76]

see what happens when u lot are asked for evidence? u reply with the mature "u need to get out more" argument. very mature

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

http://www.aetv.com/american_justice/aj_episode_guide.jsp?episode=136874
Critical of government handling of it, provides documented evidence showing who did what.

[uk_dave]

see what happens when u lot are asked for evidence? u reply with the mature "u need to get out more" argument. very mature

No, my comment about you needing to get a life was in response to your comment about the branch davidians.

Stop spinning for a few minutes and the world will become clearer to you.

As for 14 yr olds, I was using my ability as an impartial observer to make an assesment of the average age of the members of the 'truth' movement based upon internet videos I have seen.

I'm sure you can relate to that methodology.

[pdoherty76]

arkan i asked for proof, still waiting

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

arkan i asked for proof, still waiting

You provided a video as your "proof", I gave you a video in return.

[pdoherty76]

have u watched the video i suggested arkan? i would like to see u "debunk" it

[Dog Town]

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.


What is "Your name is a killing word"? For 600 Alex. Sorry wrong game...

[Gravy]

i think they are very suspicious given that an event compered to pearl harbour then happened and the neocons immediately started referring to it as an "opportunity"You clearly have not read PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses." Please do.

With regard to alex jones, i personally think he is a brave man who confronts people that most people wont.Why do you suppose, pdoherty, he would not confront the FDNY when I requested that he walk down the street and tell them what he told me? Why do you think he would make those accusations to his followers, but not to the people he claims were involved? Does that show courage?

And please answer the question, which I ask for the third time: do you think Alex Jones is justified in accusing the FDNY? If so, why? If not, will you speak out against him? It would be horrible to falsely accuse firemen of the things Jones accuses them of, agreed?

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is?Profit.

[uk_dave]

pdoherty76,

Have you seen this film (hell, you might even be in it)?

http://tinyurl.com/r3sxl

You only have to watch the first 4.5 minutes.

Does alex jones fill you with pride and admiration?

[pdoherty76]

You clearly have not read PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses." Please do.

Why do you suppose, pdoherty, he would not confront the FDNY when I requested that he walk down the street and tell them what he told me? Why do you think he would make those accusations to his followers, but not to the people he claims were involved? Does that show courage?

And please answer the question, which I ask for the third time: do you think Alex Jones is justified in accusing the FDNY? If so, why? If not, will you speak out against him? It would be horrible to falsely accuse firemen of the things Jones accuses them of, agreed?

Profit.


i think the reason he wouldnt confront the fireman is that he thought they would probably be violent to him, a wise decision in my book.

You are totally misrepresenting his view on the fireman, he claims they followed orders and then later were silenced. Fireman do follow orders and groups of employees do get silenced. I dont know if he is right but he is not blaming the firemen.

While we are at it, could you please amend ur mainly excellent wtc7 paper so that it is made clear that alex jones filmed the ritual which u use to question his sanity?

as far as profit is concerned, alex jones could make more money in the mainstream

[Pardalis]

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is?
Profit.

Profit.

I would say attention mostly.

[chipmunk stew]

as far as profit is concerned, alex jones could make more money in the mainstream
:pigsfly

[MarkyX]

You are totally misrepresenting his view on the fireman, he claims they followed orders and then later were silenced. Fireman do follow orders and groups of employees do get silenced. I dont know if he is right but he is not blaming the firemen.


Strawman. Neither are we claiming AJ to be blaming the firemen.

Alex Jones is calling the firemen LIARS. If you dispute their experiences, you are calling them LIARS.

Alex Jones has claimed on tape that they received the orders from the higher ups. There is no such evidence to support such a notion, and Chief Daniel Nigro has stated that he gave the order to set up a collapse zone because as an experienced fire fighter, he knew it was going to collapse hours ahead. AJ says that is wrong, therefore AJ is accusing the firefighters of being liars.

[pdoherty76]

Markyx if alex jones is claiming they are lying he is not claiming they are doing so for fun, he is claiming they have been forced to keep their gobs shut. there is a difference.

How many times in daniel nigros experience of firefighting had he seen 50 storey builings collapse due to fire and damage? None i would suspect

[MarkyX]

Markyx if alex jones is claiming they are lying he is not claiming they are doing so for fun, he is claiming they have been forced to keep their gobs shut. there is a difference.

How many times in daniel nigros experience of firefighting had he seen 50 storey builings collapse due to fire and damage? None i would suspect

So you are calling Chief Daniel Nigro, a firefighter who risked his life to save his own, a liar and unprofessional in his work.

Nice.

[Gravy]

i think the reason he wouldnt confront the fireman is that he thought they would probably be violent to him, a wise decision in my book.
You think he thought they would be violent to him after he accused them of abandoning their fallen brothers on 9/11 in order to participate in a real estate crime, and then and then conspiring to keep quiet about it? Gosh, maybe you're right!

You are totally misrepresenting his view on the fireman, he claims they followed orders and then later were silenced. Fireman do follow orders and groups of employees do get silenced. I dont know if he is right but he is not blaming the firemen.Allow me to put on my big surprise face, pdoherty, and suggest that you did not read my paper with the goal of full comprehension. I guess you're a "bold type" kind of guy.

Page 27

Headline, Alex Jones' PrisonPlanet.com
Silverstein, FDNY Decided to Pull WTC 7

Headline, Alex Jones' Infowars.com
World Trade Center Imploded by Silverstein, FDNY And Others

Well, pdoherty? While we are at it, could you please amend ur mainly excellent wtc7 paper so that it is made clear that alex jones filmed the ritual which u use to question his sanity?I gave links to his videos, radio show, and websites. Guess you missed that.

as far as profit is concerned, alex jones could make more money in the mainstreamMainstream media? Not unless he had mainstream ideas, as opposed to paranoid delusions.

[Stellafane]

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

Man, you're taking the demise of the Loose Change forum pretty hard, huh?

Still shooting blanks by the way, kid.

[Gravy]

Strawman. Neither are we claiming AJ to be blaming the firemen.
I am, because he does.

[stateofgrace]

Markyx if alex jones is claiming they are lying he is not claiming they are doing so for fun, he is claiming they have been forced to keep their gobs shut. there is a difference.


Any idea by who ?

[pdoherty76]

so first hes in it for profit and now he has delusions.

I must admit i wasnt aware of those headlines, Alex Jones is wrong to do that I agree.

Daniel Nigro could not possibly know from experience because 911 was a unique situation.

[Stellafane]

..as far as profit is concerned, alex jones could make more money in the mainstream

Alex Jones would be an anonymous nobody in the mainstream. 9/11 is the best thing that ever happened to him. He found a ready market of people like you ever so willing to fall for his crap.

[pdoherty76]

stellafane hard luck, i have never visited the loose change blog and i never will. avery is a total opportunist and his movie is crap

[pdoherty76]

I am, because he does.


so could gravy and marky please make their mind up, which is it?

[stateofgrace]

so first hes in it for profit and now he has delusions.

I must admit i wasnt aware of those headlines, Alex Jones is wrong to do that I agree.

Daniel Nigro could not possibly know from experience because 911 was a unique situation.

So they didn't know it was going to collapse due to structural damage but knew it was going to be blown up?

And they are all keeping quiet about it because they are following orders?

Right?

[Dog Town]

Daniel Nigro could not possibly know from experience because 911 was a unique situation.

3592

[pdoherty76]

Any idea by who ?

i have no idea. thats why id like an investigation. u see?

[stateofgrace]

i have no idea. thats why id like an investigation. u see?

Oh i see, you're just asking questions, right?

[Stellafane]

Daniel Nigro could not possibly know from experience because 911 was a unique situation.

Oh. So when you guys claim that the WTC must have been a CD because fire never brought down a building that size before, it's all total crap because after all, 9/11 was "a unique situation" -- right? Glad to hear you finally admit it.

You know, maybe you're right after all. You're terrible at this.

[Gravy]

so could gravy and marky please make their mind up, which is it?
Something unclear about this, chief, or do you need larger type?

Silverstein, FDNY Decided to Pull WTC 7

World Trade Center Imploded by Silverstein, FDNY And Others

[Stellafane]

stellafane hard luck, i have never visited the loose change blog and i never will. avery is a total opportunist and his movie is crap

Hey, you and I agree on something! Glad to here it, seriously.

[pdoherty76]

Alex Jones would be an anonymous nobody in the mainstream. 9/11 is the best thing that ever happened to him. He found a ready market of people like you ever so willing to fall for his crap.

alex jones was making films and rebuilding churches (desecrated by the US military and police) before 911. he is a hero

[pdoherty76]

Hey, you and I agree on something! Glad to here it, seriously.

im sure we agree on many things. I believe most of the 911 story. I just have an intuitive problem with the towers collapse and the government motivations

[Dog Town]

alex jones was making films and rebuilding churches (desecrated by the US military and police) before 911. he is a hero

To call what was at Mt.Carmel, a "church" in the traditional, accepted, sense is a "leap of faith", at best.

[Gravy]

so first hes in it for profit and now he has delusions.

I must admit i wasnt aware of those headlines, Alex Jones is wrong to do that I agree.
Thought you said you read my paper. The screenshots from his websites take up half a page.

Daniel Nigro could not possibly know from experience because 911 was a unique situation.What, exactly, in the over 200 accounts of WTC 7's condition that I collected in that paper, leads you to believe that you are correct and they are not?

[pdoherty76]

Oh. So when you guys claim that the WTC must have been a CD because fire never brought down a building that size before, it's all total crap because after all, 9/11 was "a unique situation" -- right? Glad to hear you finally admit it.

You know, maybe you're right after all. You're terrible at this.

i have never claimed it was a controlled demolition. in fact, i admit the towers showed no typical characteristics of controlled demolition, but there still could have been bombs.

It is the very uniqueness of 911 that arouses my suspicion. do u see?

Now explain how nigro knew it would collapse if he hadnt seen any thing like it before

[pdoherty76]

Thought you said you read my paper. The screenshots from his websites take up half a page.

What, exactly, in the over 200 accounts of WTC 7's condition that I collected in that paper, leads you to believe that you are correct and they are not?

did i not say earlier that you are convincing me about building 7? i may well be joining ur side soon. (waits for someone to say ur side doesnt want me)

I just cant see how they would know it would collapse. they had never seen a building in that condition before so they had no frame of reference

[stateofgrace]

did i not say earlier that you are convincing me about building 7? i may well be joining ur side soon. (waits for someone to say ur side doesnt want me)

I just cant see how they would know it would collapse. they had never seen a building in that condition before so they had no frame of reference

Then why do not you ask them ? Get in touch with this gentleman or the NYFD and ask them.

[Bell]

Then why do not you ask them ? Get in touch with this gentleman or the NYFD and ask them.

FDNY, stateofgrace ;)

[Gravy]

Now explain how nigro knew it would collapse if he hadnt seen any thing like it beforeRight. 32-year FDNY veteran Daniel Nigro, and all the other veteran firefighters on the scene who examined the building, had never seen buildings damaged and on fire before, had never been exposed to building collapses, had never trained for high-rise fires, knew nothing about the behavior of steel in fires.

Guess what, chief?

Two of the largest buildings in the world had collapsed seven hours earlier due to damage and fire, killing 343 FDNY heroes.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[pdoherty76]

Then why do not you ask them ? Get in touch with this gentleman or the NYFD and ask them.

i am not an investigator, i have no journalistic skills whatsoever. its the job of a real investigation to do this. besides they would tell me to get lost i suspect

[pdoherty76]

Right. 32-year FDNY veteran Daniel Nigro, and all the other veteran firefighters on the scene who examined the building, had never seen buildings damaged and on fire before, had never been exposed to building collapses, had never trained for high-rise fires, knew nothing about the behavior of steel in fires.

Guess what, chief?

Two of the largest buildings in the world had collapsed seven hours earlier due to damage and fire, killing 343 FDNY heroes.

What the hell is wrong with you?

the other 2 buildings had been hit by planes, 7 had been hit by debris.

could you please name a large building that had collapsed in NY due to debris and fire damage before 911? no u cant because it hadnt happened so i am rught to say that nigro had no experience of that situation.

ill tell you what my problem is, i dont accept emotional arguments and use them to fudge scientific ones

[Gravy]

i am not an investigator, i have no journalistic skills whatsoever. its the job of a real investigation to do this. besides they would tell me to get lost i suspectNeither am I an investigator. I'm an investigoogler. It's easy.

Second time:

What, exactly, in the over 200 accounts of WTC 7's condition that I collected in that paper, leads you to believe that you are correct and they are not?

[Gravy]

the other 2 buildings had been hit by planes, 7 had been hit by debris.

could you please name a large building that had collapsed in NY due to debris and fire damage before 911? no u cant because it hadnt happened so i am rught to say that nigro had no experience of that situation.

ill tell you what my problem is, i dont accept emotional arguments and use them to fudge scientific ones
So what are you claiming about the firsthand reports I gathered for people like you? What exactly are you saying about the world's most highly-trained high-rise firefighters?

[stateofgrace]

i am not an investigator, i have no journalistic skills whatsoever. its the job of a real investigation to do this. besides they would tell me to get lost i suspect

Yet you claim to be an investigator. You have made quite a few silly and quite frankly offensive remarks towards the integrity of the FDNY. You have implied they are all keeping quiet about being involved in mass murder.You question the integrity of individuals involved at ground level.

You do this behind the anonymity of your PC.

I also suspect they would tell you, rightly so to get lost, for you insult these people and you mock their fallen comrades.

[Bell]

the other 2 buildings had been hit by planes, 7 had been hit by debris.

could you please name a large building that had collapsed in NY due to debris and fire damage before 911? no u cant because it hadnt happened so i am rught to say that nigro had no experience of that situation.

ill tell you what my problem is, i dont accept emotional arguments and use them to fudge scientific ones

How about the Equitable Building fire in 1912.

[pdoherty76]

So what are you claiming about the firsthand reports I gathered for people like you? What exactly are you saying about the world's most highly-trained high-rise firefighters?

i am saying they couldnt know it was going to collapse

[pdoherty76]

How about the Equitable Building fire in 1912.

daniel nigro wasnt alive in 1912 so how exactly did he experience this?

[Bell]

daniel nigro wasnt alive in 1912 so how exactly did he experience this?

Have you heard of the Titanic?

[pdoherty76]

Yet you claim to be an investigator. You have made quite a few silly and quite frankly offensive remarks towards the integrity of the FDNY. You have implied they are all keeping quiet about being involved in mass murder.You question the integrity of individuals involved at ground level.

You do this behind the anonymity of your PC.

I also suspect they would tell you, rightly so to get lost, for you insult these people and you mock their fallen comrades.

I have never claimed to be an investigator. How else do you expect me to post on an iinternet forum if it isnt from behind a pc?

[pdoherty76]

Have you heard of the Titanic?

no i havent. enlighten me

[Gravy]

i am saying they couldnt know it was going to collapseOkay, although you said you did, several of your posts here confirm that you didn't read the paper that I took the trouble to put together for people like you. That saddens me. Welcome to "ignore," pdoherty. No one has earned it more.

[pdoherty76]

Okay, although you said you did, several of your posts here confirm that you didn't read the paper that I took the trouble to put together for people like you. That saddens me. Welcome to "ignore," pdoherty. No one has earned it more.

i read ur paper. not the first time ive been accused of lying here despite not lying once. feel free to ignore me, i was dared to come here and if u cant handle my arguments thats fine

[Bell]

no i havent. enlighten me

Stop lying.

[stateofgrace]

I have never claimed to be an investigator. How else do you expect me to post on an iinternet forum if it isnt from behind a pc?

It is not the fact you are posting on an internet forum, I find offensive. It is the offensive questions you demand answers to from this forum.

If you feel so strongly that the FDNY are involved in mass murder get off your backside and do something about it, rather than demand people here answer your odious questions.

Don't try and act the ever so hurt, "hey I'm only asking questions" sad eyed puppy. Move your arse, do something and get in touch with those people you question.

Until then I believe the FDNY and not some wannabe investigator like you, goodnight sir.

[pdoherty76]

It is not the fact you are posting on an internet forum, I find offensive. It is the offensive questions you demand answers to from this forum.

If you feel so strongly that the FDNY are involved in mass murder get off your backside and do something about it, rather than demand people here answer your odious questions.

Don't try and act the ever so hurt, "hey I'm only asking questions" sad eyed puppy. Move your arse, do something and get in touch with those people you question.

Until then I believe the FDNY and not some wannabe investigator like you, goodnight sir.

could you please find a quote where i said they were involved in murder?

it seems ur dare for me to come here has backfired lol

[stateofgrace]

You are totally misrepresenting his view on the fireman, he claims they followed orders and then later were silenced. Fireman do follow orders and groups of employees do get silenced. I dont know if he is right but he is not blaming the firemen.


Do you agree with your God yes or no ?

[kookbreaker]

feel free to ignore me, i was dared to come here and if u cant handle my arguments thats fine

You are not making arguements. You are being deliberately obtuse because you get a giggle out of it for some perverted reason. You crap on the graves of the victims, you worship a bully and a coward, you cannot learn even basic concepts, your degree was apparently a waste of money, you are sloppy and lazy in typing and inexplicably take delight in looking like a moron, you are arrogant in the extreme and cry like a baby when basic concepts like 'evidence' are put to you, you demand evidence even after it is given in some twisted attempt to be clever (it isn't, you aren't), You deliberately misread what people have written in order to attack them and complain when you get called on it, you makes some of the dumbest statements I have ever seen on this forum and you've been here scarcely 24 hours. In short, there is nothing redeeming about you, and since all you are doing is trying to get attention I see little percentage in awarding you any. I put the clinicly insane Christophera in the ignore file for far less and can no longerfind a reason for keeping you out of it. The price for this is that you will briefly strut like a oil soaked, crippled pidgeon claiming that your arugements were all hot stuff and we couldn't handle them. The truth, however, is apparent to all.

You're worthless. Even as a Alex Jones fanboy.

Bye.

[pdoherty76]

You are not making arguements. You are being deliberately obtuse because you get a giggle out of it for some perverted reason. You crap on the graves of the victims, you worship a bully and a coward, you cannot learn even basic concepts, your degree was apparently a waste of money, you are sloppy and lazy in typing and inexplicably take delight in looking like a moron, you are arrogant in the extreme and cry like a baby when basic concepts like 'evidence' are put to you, you demand evidence even after it is given in some twisted attempt to be clever (it isn't, you aren't), You deliberately misread what people have written in order to attack them and complain when you get called on it, you makes some of the dumbest statements I have ever seen on this forum and you've been here scarcely 24 hours. In short, there is nothing redeeming about you, and since all you are doing is trying to get attention I see little percentage in awarding you any. I put the clinicly insane Christophera in the ignore file for far less and can no longerfind a reason for keeping you out of it. The price for this is that you will briefly strut like a oil soaked, crippled pidgeon claiming that your arugements were all hot stuff and we couldn't handle them. The truth, however, is apparent to all.

You're worthless. Even as a Alex Jones fanboy.

Bye.

but i must have one redeeming feature? lol

[pdoherty76]

Do you agree with your God yes or no ?

i dont know is the true answer

[Foster Zygote]

What is "Your name is a killing word"? For 600 Alex. Sorry wrong game...

Muad'Dib!

Sorry, hope I didn't hurt anyone.

Steven

[pdoherty76]

could you present your evidence that christophera is clinically insane? have you consulted any psychiatrists?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

have u watched the video i suggested arkan? i would like to see u "debunk" it

I'd like to see you use proper written English. Maybe it will happen. Maybe it won't. We'll just have to wait and see. Do you have a link to your video du jour?

[pdoherty76]

the links to the two part video are:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5510108493532885562&q=waco+revelation

and

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2962656895645965329&q=waco+revelation

I warn you it contains graphic scenes of children your government deliberately murdered

[pdoherty76]

I'd like to see you use proper written English. Maybe it will happen. Maybe it won't. We'll just have to wait and see. Do you have a link to your video du jour?

why?

[Stellafane]

...I warn you it contains graphic scenes of children your government deliberately murdered

All right puberty, you've lost whatever mild freak show entertainment value you might have had with this last statement. Like I said, you hate the USA, fine, join the club. Lots of people try to compensate for their personal inadequacies that way. But I'm so sick and tired of infantile attention whores such as yourself tossing around wild accusations, and sidestepping anyone who calls you out on it and demands evidence (you know, the stuff that happens out here in the real world, not in the damp, fevered little closet that serves as your mind).

Last post I'm wasting on you. Have a nice life, puberty.

[pdoherty76]

All right puberty, you've lost whatever mild freak show entertainment value you might have had with this last statement. Like I said, you hate the USA, fine, join the club. Lots of people try to compensate for their personal inadequacies that way. But I'm so sick and tired of infantile attention whores such as yourself tossing around wild accusations, and sidestepping anyone who calls you out on it and demands evidence (you know, the stuff that happens out here in the real world, not in the damp, fevered little closet that serves as your mind).

Last post I'm wasting on you. Have a nice life, puberty.

i have just presented my evidence. watch the video or are you scared it might take you out of your little comfort zone u have where all governments are peace loving hippies

[Bell]

i have just presented my evidence. watch the video or are you scared it might take you out of your little comfort zone u have where all governments are peace loving hippies

The government is bad and rudeless. I know, I work for the government. They have no problem getting rid of little boys like you.

[pdoherty76]

bell ur on ignore, i cant see a word ur saying foley boy

[Bell]

bell ur on ignore, i cant see a word ur saying foley boy

You break my heart.

[pdoherty76]

thats right bell keep pissing in the wind and talking to a man that has u on ignore.

by the way why are you talking to me? im not 14

[Bell]

thats right bell keep pissing in the wind and talking to a man that has u on ignore.

by the way why are you talking to me? im not 14

Funny, since you have me on ignore (giggle) that you know I was replying to you. Ouch, exposed another lie, have I?

And no, you're not 14, 12 maybe.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

the links to the two part video are:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5510108493532885562&q=waco+revelation

and

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2962656895645965329&q=waco+revelation

I warn you it contains graphic scenes of children your government deliberately murdered

Watched the first part. 53 minutes of pro-Davidian/anti-government propaganda. One sided presentation, the bulk of which was anecdotal in nature. No time given to those being accused to present counter arguments. Most importantly, no citations to back up claims made so there is little than can be independently verified without delving headlong into that topic.

[pdoherty76]

Watched the first part. 53 minutes of pro-Davidian/anti-government propaganda. One sided presentation, the bulk of which was anecdotal in nature. No time given to those being accused to present counter arguments. Most importantly, no citations to back up claims made so there is little than can be independently verified without delving headlong into that topic.

erm you have conveniently missed out the video analysed by experts showing machine gun fire

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

erm you have conveniently missed out the video analysed by experts showing machine gun fire

You could have saved 53 minutes of my life and told me to skip the first part and go to the second part since it has something of substance in it.

Howabout this, I've watched the first part of your suggestion, now you go watch my recommendation (or at least the first 53 minutes of it).

[uk_dave]

Perhaps this debunks jdoherty's 'evidence'

http://www.rickross.com/groups/waco.html

:cool:

[Mince]

I would be interested in peoples views on this. In an alex jones video a lady on the street is asked about the london bombing and the subsequent shooting of the brazilian man on the tube train.

She says something startling: "i am prepared to give up my liberty for freedom"

are liberty and freedom different?

Jones makes the connection to the doublethink in 1984. war is peace, freedom is slavery etc

its convincing to me. but hey im just a fruitloop


Ah. You speak of Terror storm. Did you see the hard hitting segment when Alex interviewed the 85-year-olds at the county fair? Boy, he really knows how to stack the evidence.

[pdoherty76]

mince i take it u dont like jones. so i have one question for u, why are u watching his videos?????

when LC final cut comes out u will get straight on google video and watch it just so u can moan that its crap. try this tactic...watch videos u do like

[pdoherty76]

sorry uk dave ir debunks nothing, that website says

"RRI's mission is to study destructive cults, controversial groups and movements and to provide a broad range of information and services easily accessible to the public for assistance and educational purposes. "

so its biased and it isnt an expert on analysing infra red video. tut tut try again

[Donal]

mince i take it u dont like jones. so i have one question for u, why are u watching his videos?????

when LC final cut comes out u will get straight on google video and watch it just so u can moan that its crap. try this tactic...watch videos u do like

So, later, no one can debunk them because no one has watched them?

You can't sight them as references and then start laughing like a snotty brat when we watch them. How are we supposed to argue over them?

[pdoherty76]

that says it all. some people need lives

[uk_dave]

sorry uk dave ir debunks nothing, that website says

"RRI's mission is to study destructive cults, controversial groups and movements and to provide a broad range of information and services easily accessible to the public for assistance and educational purposes. "

so its biased and it isnt an expert on analysing infra red video. tut tut try again


LOL Sorry mate, I didn't post that link for YOU, I posted it for Arkan_Wolfshade.

I know YOU don't like to debate facts and evidence, just opinions.

:duck:

[Dog Town]

Hey PD'oh
Why are you lying again, on another board about here?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ive been banned from JREFthat PROVES i u lot couldnt handle me. I totally destroyed you. but dont the clowns realise ill just re apply inder a different name and therefore be in an even better position to surrupticiously get quotes

I have two neighbors from Mancheseter, the said you sound like a"punter" !

[Mince]

mince i take it u dont like jones. so i have one question for u, why are u watching his videos?????

when LC final cut comes out u will get straight on google video and watch it just so u can moan that its crap. try this tactic...watch videos u do like

Correction. I've only watched Terror Storm. It's all I could tolerate.

No. I will not watch LC final. It seems you are being a little presumptuous yourself.

How do I know, before watching a video, if I like it or not?

[pdoherty76]

dont know what a punter is

i thought i had been banned

i love how im being quoted site to site, why am i so important to u people

[Donal]

that says it all. some people need lives


Such as?

Are you saying the people that watch these videos need lives?

[Mince]

that says it all. some people need lives


pdoherty76


Join Date: 15th October 2006


Total Posts: 244 (75.78 posts per day)


Indeed. Some people do need lives.


**emphasis added

[chipmunk stew]

sorry uk dave ir debunks nothing, that website says

"RRI's mission is to study destructive cults, controversial groups and movements and to provide a broad range of information and services easily accessible to the public for assistance and educational purposes. "

so its biased and it isnt an expert on analysing infra red video. tut tut try again
I thought you said you could clearly see the kids being shot with machine guns. In fact, it's an unclear infrared video that only experts can properly analyze?

Do you know how many people come to this website waving grainy images or fuzzy videos around claiming that, based on their or some expert's analysis, it proves something extraordinary?

If that video shows kids being shot with machine guns, then Bigfoot, ghosts, alien visitors, the JFK conspiracy, holographic planes, and a host of other kooky claims based on such evidence are real.

[Dog Town]

i love how im being quoted site to site, why am i so important to u people

Laughing at you is fun, my staff is enjoying your "brainless rants"!

[pdoherty76]

unlucky chipmunk, u said urself an expert analysed the video.

i have consulted a expert and he told me ur government muders kids

get over it

[Dog Town]

i thought i had been banned


I know everyone, but you, see's the problem in this statement.

[pdoherty76]

so ur saying im so important in ur life ur sharing me with people?

hmm it takes all sorts

[chipmunk stew]

erm you have conveniently missed out the video analysed by experts showing machine gun fire
:bike:

[Dog Town]

so ur saying im so important in ur life ur sharing me with people?

hmm it takes all sorts

*buzzer sound* Wrong again Mr math's! You are on a public forum showing your backside to all. We just notice, and laugh at you. It's not like we made a web page for you. Like you have done for us.

[Hellbound]

unlucky chipmunk, u said urself an expert analysed the video.

i have consulted a expert and he told me ur government muders kids

get over it

Oh yeah!

Well my expert says your expert is a poopy-head!

ANd my expert can beat up your expert any day!

Meet after class behind the gym!

[pdoherty76]

no u just made a million sites about the man u envy, dylan avery

lol

[uk_dave]

*buzzer sound* Wrong again Mr math's! You are on a public forum showing your backside to all. We just notice, and laugh at you. It's not like we made a web page for you. Like you have done for us.

Ouch!

:faint:

[Dog Town]

no u just made two sites about the man u pity, dylan avery

lol

Fixed!

[pdoherty76]

dog town ur obsessed with him. u cant wait till his next pathetic video comes out, sad

[Dog Town]

dog town ur obsessed with him. u cant wait till his next pathetic video comes out, sad

Shows how bright you aren't. I have never watch any version of it. Don't need to.

[pdoherty76]

so u have never watched loose change dog town? and yet u constantly slate it in screw loose change? u lying tosser lol

right im putting u on ignore now

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

so u have never watched loose change dog town? and yet u constantly slate it in screw loose change? u lying tosser lol

right im putting u on ignore now

So, by your logic, as demonstrated in this thread; if someone were to create a video showing how you were responsible for the Columbia shuttle disaster you wouldn't care, or bother to try to correct the information?

[Mince]

dog town ur obsessed with him. u cant wait till his next pathetic video comes out, sad


pd;

Have you ever been called Lord Haw-Haw?

Just curious.

[Dog Town]

so u have never watched loose change dog town? and yet u constantly slate it in screw loose change? u lying tosser lol

right im putting u on ignore now

I slagg Dylan and Crew, don't need the "film " to do that.Every time people like them, and you, open your mouth it is comedy gold. I know you don't get it, you never will!

You can apologise for calling me a liar now! Forget it you are not Man enough!

[boloboffin]

Funny, since you have me on ignore (giggle) that you know I was replying to you. Ouch, exposed another lie, have I?

And no, you're not 14, 12 maybe.

I checked this out, Bell. I put pd on ignore for a second. The threads don't hide the posts of an ignored user completely. A placeholder box is substituted for the post, and it specifically says that you can't see that message "because the user username here is on your ignore list." So pd does know who's responding to him, even though he may actually have you on ignore.

Though at the rate he's going, he might as well just leave JREF.

[Darth Rotor]

see what happens when u lot are asked for evidence? u reply with the mature "u need to get out more" argument. very mature
"By their works you shall know them."

A diagnosis of pdoherty76 (http://www.guidenet.net/resources/wanker.html)

Supporting evidence, in language use.

1. Obstinate resistance to using linguistic conventions, and reliance on ChatSpeak. This habit is typically linked to a belief that using non-conventional word and sentence structure (aka crap grammar) demonstrates progressive thinking, modernity, and valid iconoclasm.

2. The very mature tag line, a standard high school level insult among persons insecure in their maturity level. Rarely found among adults.

Ladies and gentlemen, why do you feed this adolescent troll?

DR

[Donal]

Cuz I'm a jerk and work is slow today.

[Blutarsky]

Cuz I'm a jerk and work is slow today.

HAH! The ontology of an internet message board.

[Bell]

I checked this out, Bell. I put pd on ignore for a second. The threads don't hide the posts of an ignored user completely. A placeholder box is substituted for the post, and it specifically says that you can't see that message "because the user username here is on your ignore list." So pd does know who's responding to him, even though he may actually have you on ignore.

Though at the rate he's going, he might as well just leave JREF.

Yes, I know, but I could easily be replying to another member or have made an post non related to poverty101.

He's a 12 year old liar.