Losing hope... why do good writers end up with 2012 and Two World stuff?

[snooziums]

Why is it that when someone writes a okay book about life and beyond, that they later become so obsessed with politics and world changes in the year 2012?

My first example is of Lynn Grabhorn (http://www.lynngrabhorn.com). She wrote an okay book of "Excuse me, Your Life is Waiting." Then she wrote the "Dear God, What's Happening To Us?" book. Okay, that was a bit odd, and a bit out of my grasp, but okay... Then she writes about "Planet Two." What the heck? How did we go from ideas to enhance one's life to the discussion of the Earth spiting into two separate "dimension levels," and all at the year 2012?

She passed away lot long ago, however she left a message (http://www.lynngrabhorn.com/messagefromlynn.htm) on her site for her readers afterwards.

My work here on this planet is done, and I've now joined others of the Light in a higher dimension to help facilitate the forthcoming "Birth" that this planet and universe is about to experience.

I just do not get it.

That takes me to my second example, Suzanne Ward (http://www.matthewbooks.com). Now her first book "Matthew, Tell Me About Heaven" (can be seen on Amazon here (http://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Tell-About-Heaven-Description/dp/0971787514) and here (http://www.amazon.ca/Matthew-Tell-Me-about-Heaven/dp/0738840920) and on MSN Shopping here (http://shopping.msn.com/prices/shp/?itemId=19264427,stext=Matthew) and here (http://shopping.msn.com/prices/shp/?itemId=18450005,stext=Matthew)) was well written, and quite touching to read. And many others thought so, and it sold over 100,000 copies.

I knew the author over email, and then she was an inspiration to me, and talked though email when I was going through some very hard times.

She after wrote three more books that went instead into topics like civilizations on other worlds, the causes behind current events here, how many diseases were human-made, and so forth. Of course, she writes about the year 2012 in one of those books.

Then, she keeps a list of constantly updated "messages (http://www.matthewbooks.com/mattsmessage.htm)" that has "updates" on world events. The latest one, October 13 (http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/anmviewer.asp?a=63&z=2) of this year, has this to say:

Oh, indeed, the intentions of the Illuminati who direct Bush’s “war on terror” to control the entire Mideast are very much alive, but let us put a common sense focus on what is only their delusion, that they’re moving toward their world domination goal albeit with some annoying delays. Still, Earth’s energy field of potential clearly indicates that an incursion into Iran remains the same possibility it has been since the plan was devised long before 9/11. It means that her reaching the plane where only love and light prevail is, in your linear timeframe, still on target at the year 2012, with the exciting and astounding transition in store along the way. In this light, literally, I shall reply to the questions about the remarkable universal event expected October 17th. Yes indeed, this is “for real”! No, Hillary Clinton will not be elected president in 2008 even though she is a strong Illuminati member—by then, their power to control all organizations and institutions that impact your lives will be paltry, if any at all.

*sigh* Why is it that when ever I find something of "spiritual" inspiration, written by someone who seems to have some insight, that they turn into focusing on things like world events and the future, and less on the original inspiration? Maybe I am cursed or something?

I just do not know anymore, and I have lost my hope in so much.

[Zygar]

Isn't it obvious? Everyone is obsessed with this year because all this stuff will happen in 2012.

;)

[trvlr2]

Snooziums Quote "*sigh* Why is it that when ever I find something of "spiritual" inspiration, written by someone who seems to have some insight, that they turn into focusing on things like world events and the future, and less on the original inspiration? Maybe I am cursed or something?

I just do not know anymore, and I have lost my hope in so much."


Dear snooziums: Perhaps because they are whackos? Or, even victims of brain rot. Linus Pauling comes to mind.

[a_unique_person]

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him". Don't place your trust in gurus, in other words, they are only human too. You are obviously smarter than them, and don't need their guidance any more.

[Gr8wight]

The problem, snooziums, is that allowing oneself to believe in one thing that is not true opens the door for believing in many things that are not true. You will find that in almost every instance, people who express belief in outrageously ridiculous claims of spirituality - like your examples of "Planet 2" and civilisations on other planets - began with a belief in an imaginary being called God.

The 2012 bit is of no importance. I just happens to be the most popular woo date at this time.

[Crowbot]

*sigh* Why is it that when ever I find something of "spiritual" inspiration, written by someone who seems to have some insight, that they turn into focusing on things like world events and the future, and less on the original inspiration? Maybe I am cursed or something?

I just do not know anymore, and I have lost my hope in so much.

My guess would be trying to think in "spiritual" terms tends to lead to woo beliefs. I understand there is some vague concept held by some skeptics that spiritualism isnt necessarily woo - but in my opinion if it quacks like a duck...

[Dazed]

Why do you hate 2012? :(

[Yahzi]

*sigh* Why is it that when ever I find something of "spiritual" inspiration, written by someone who seems to have some insight, that they turn into focusing on things like world events and the future, and less on the original inspiration?
It is the nature of the beast.

Any art-form unconstrained by limitations will eventually metastize into self-obsession.

Spiritualism is the very definition of unconstrained, as even internal consistency can be dispensed with. So the spiritualtist inevitably goes from "I have an interesting comment to make based on years of experience" to "I am the only interesting thing to talk about." Because at no point does the spiritualist's visions have to pass any kind of test or reality check.

It's like modern art: it doesn't even have to look like anything anymore. And thust it has become a self-referential parody of itself.

Science and philosophy, on the other hand, are constrained by reality. Consequently you will find them less likely to jump rails and become obsessed with their own navels. They cannot afford to forgot the rest of the world. But spiritualism is practically predicated on ignoring the material world.

Hence, the end product (self-aggrandizing fantasy) is all but unavoidable.

[snooziums]

I just do not understand how it seems that every rational person that explores spiritualism rationally, at first, changes into focusing on strange beliefs, and their focus changes from spiritualism to current events and predictions of the future.

It would seem that it would not be too hard to just stick with exploring spiritualism and not stray off the course. At least I think so.

Maybe spiritualism somehow does this to humans. Of course, breaking off of spiritualism would lead to exploring philosophy, which also had many examples of "professionals" in this field going astray. Maybe there are examples of some researchers in this area that maintain their rationally.

I do not know. Maybe I can just keep exploring the philosophical questions myself without relying on outside help. At least I believe that I can maintain my rationally by being self-dependent in this area, if nothing else.

[Kell]

Spiritualism is the very definition of unconstrained

It would seem that it would not be too hard to just stick with exploring spiritualism

Can I just ask: what do you mean by the word "spiritualism"?
Do you mean
spiritualism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spiritualism) "the belief or doctrine that the spirits of the dead, surviving after the mortal life, can and do communicate with the living"
or do you mean
spirituality (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirituality) "3. predominantly spiritual (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spiritual) character as shown in thought, life, etc." ?

[snooziums]

I am sorry, I did not define my definition of "spiritualism."

Basically, it is looking into the "soul," "life," and its meaning. It is looking at what makes us so special, what gives us our "morals," and emotions.

And also, are we more than just this life. Are we more than just a glob of carbon and water with no purpose?

[Piscivore]

Any art-form unconstrained by limitations will eventually metastize into self-obsession.

Well said. Is that yours? I'm stealing it. :)

Are we more than just a glob of carbon and water with no purpose?

No. We just like to think we are.

[Seismosaurus]

And also, are we more than just this life. Are we more than just a glob of carbon and water with no purpose?

"No" gets my vote.

[Dave1001]

2012. It beats waiting for 3000.

[logical muse]

They're out by exactly 100 years.

From Rush's 2112:

ii. the temples of syrinx
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

... the massive grey walls of the temples rise from the
Heart of every federation city. I have always been awed
By them, to think that every single facet of every life is
Regulated and directed from within! our books, our music,
Our work and play are all looked after by the benevolent
Wisdom of the priests...

Their official site uses crappy frames, but here's a link to the page for the album:
2112 (http://www.rush.com/php/discography_detail.php?f=1&id=4)

[Kopji]

Why is it that when someone writes a okay book about life and beyond, that they later become so obsessed with politics and world changes in the year 2012?...

...*sigh* Why is it that when ever I find something of "spiritual" inspiration, written by someone who seems to have some insight, that they turn into focusing on things like world events and the future, and less on the original inspiration? Maybe I am cursed or something?

I just do not know anymore, and I have lost my hope in so much.

The 2012 is easy. This is the 'end' of the famous Mayan sun calendar.

My opinion of the rest is that most books I've seen are varieties of updates to an old book first published in 1936 by Dale Carnegie. Believe it or not, there really is a book titled "How to Win Friends and Influence People". The title is pretty corny and it is a bit dated now. Laugh all you want but the old copy I have is the 112th printing.

The book is fascinating from the standpoint that most new 'help' books draw on the very same ideas. The basic truth of the book seems fairly accurate.

Carnegie lists these things as what most normal people crave:
(ibid) pg 29-30

health and the preservation of life
food
sleep
money and the things that money will buy
life in the hereafter
sexual gratification
the well being of our children
a feeling of importance

Your books probably start with one or more of those ideas as a foundation. The 'next' books need to build on them but there is nowhere to really go.

[Yahzi]

I just do not understand how it seems that every rational person that explores spiritualism rationally, at first, changes into focusing on strange beliefs, and their focus changes from spiritualism to current events and predictions of the future.

It would seem that it would not be too hard to just stick with exploring spiritualism and not stray off the course.
Let me try again:

It is impossible to stick to exploring spiritualism and not stray off the course, because there is no course there.

Exploring spiritualism is the equivalent of putting on a blindfold and trying to find a unicorn.

There is no way the method could find anything, and there is nothing there to find in the first place.

Maybe there are examples of some researchers in this area that maintain their rationally.
There are. They just don't do spirituality.

Daniel Dennet, Steven Pinker, Francis Crick, Micheal Shermer, Sam Harris, Joe Nickel, Paul Kurtz... and let's not forget the grandaddy of all investigators into the practical limitations of human perception and understanding: James Randi. (Edit: forgot to mention Robert Ingersoll, who is arguably Randi's grandaddy)

Maybe I can just keep exploring the philosophical questions myself without relying on outside help.
Or you could stop reading woocrap, and read some science.

Of course, it won't give you the answers you want. That could be a big problem. One suspects that is the root of the problem, in fact.

If you want to read authors that will only tell you stories with happy endings that you like, may I suggest fiction. It's crafted to a higher standard than woocrap driveling.

[Yahzi]

Well said. Is that yours? I'm stealing it. :)
I am honored that the fish-eater wants my words!

:)

No. We just like to think we are.
"The Astonishing Hypothesis," by Francis Crick. It keeps on astonishing people. :)

[snooziums]

*sigh* I guess to understand what I am looking for, I will have to describe a little bit about the situation I am in.

A little over a decade ago, my mother was diagnosed with multiple scleroses, when she was feeling a bit fatigued. Other than that, she was in fairly good health. Fast forward to today, she is bedridden, cannot walk at all, has incontinence, and is in constant pain. I have to take care of her, since she her disability payments will not cover being placed in a home, and she is not well enough for regulator in-home care. Every day now she keeps saying that she just wants to die, and that if she had an easy method, she would do it. Early on, she keep hoping that a cure would be found, and she was of course, a big fan of Sylvia Browne who kept promising to Montel Williams that one would be found within a year. Well, that was a few years ago. She also is afraid to kill herself (aside from she does not have the energy to do it herself) because Sylvia claims that those that commit suicide are sent right back.

But now it is at a point where she cannot take it anymore. She is in unbearable pain all the time, and cannot function at all. She is even starting to lose her mind (MS in advance stages will do that), and it scares her.

She wants me to apply for her physician-assisted suicide. I have become a member of "compassion and choices" as well as doing other research. If she goes through this, I will have to be the one to do the paperwork and the one who drives her to wherever this location is.

Now, MS is not inherited, however there is a higher risk in someone in your family has it. I recently found this out the hard way, and now I am faced with a neurological disease, and I am not yet 30 years old. I have seen how fast my mother decayed, and she was a very strong-willed person before hand. I know that I could not handle myself what she was going through even a few years ago, let alone now, thus I am considering euthanasia down the road. I have even started selling and giving away what I own so that it will not be a burden to others (I can fit everything I own in just a few suitcases), and have even pre-payed for my cremation.

Naturally, when one realizes like I did that nothing material is of value, that everyone is mortal, that pain and suffering are everywhere and that there is no way to avoid it, and that in due time, you will be forgotten and lost to time, it makes one feel insignificant, like what was the point of it all in the first place. After all, we are just specks in a tiny speck in a tiny galaxy, or insignificant. And we are around for just a short time, less than even a blink of an eye when compared to the universe again.

The idea that we crave the preservation of life is absurd when that is not posable. The idea that we mean anything at all is also absurd. The idea that we are nothing than animals, and that we should be looking for the survival of our species like other animals and killing off those who are weak scares us. The idea that morals mean anything when they do not is something that we cling to.

So, of course, we turn to what we know, however what we know does not explain anything about life and why bothering with it in the first place. So we have to turn to what we do not know or fully understand, which brings us right back to spiritually, or the idea that we mean anything.

This is where I am at, however, I keep finding that anyone that writes something good about the subject then goes off the deep end and starts writing all kinds of "out there" stuff. So, after not having the answers in what we know, and finding that exploring what we do not know leads to insanity, I find myself losing hope in it all.

It is difficult, for me at least, to face the known fact that within ten years, I will also be in a horrible situation like my mother is, and I will have to make the choice of living in constant pain and having to be taken care of...

...or deciding to not deal with the pain and trade in my life (euthanasia) for who knows what...

I still have time to think about it, a few years maybe, which sadly, makes it harder.

[a_unique_person]

That's tough. My b-in-law has MS, but it has not advanced very quickly, so he is still working and active. There are new, promising drugs appearing, but no guarantees of a cure.

Life is hard on many people, for no reason at all. That's the way it's always been. Just get what comfort from it you can. Your mother's plight makes it hard for you, but at least she has you there. It would be a lot worse for her without you.

[Yahzi]

*sigh* I guess to understand what I am looking for, I will have to describe a little bit about the situation I am in.
There is no question that you got cheated. Everybody deserves their three score and ten. For that, I am truly sorry for you.

But eventually, we all wind up where you are now, sooner or later.

What is meaning? It is the significance we attach to something above and beyond its mere status as itself. A dollar bill is not just a green and white piece of paper, because people agree to treat it differently. This is the one true act of magic available to humans: that we can create something out of nothing, that we can make meaning out of mundanity.

(This is why the paranormal is so persistent: like all legends, it has a grain of truth. Humans can change the world they live in by an act of will, because humans live in a world created by their mind, too. Just like positive thinking is necessary - you won't get far if you don't even try. But to be a woo is to forget that it is not sufficient.)

So the meaning of life is what you make it. Each day, do something that makes someone else's life a little better. Do it because it makes you feel good to do so. That's all you get. That's all any of us get. That is all there is.

I still have time to think about it, a few years maybe, which sadly, makes it harder.
Cheer up - you could get hit by a bus tommorrow.

Seriously, you can depress yourself by accepting too much responsiblity. You don't have to plan for your death. You can leave that detail up to the Cosmos to arrange. And you don't have to worry about being a burden on other people. That's what people are here for, anyway: to depend on and be depended on. If no one were ever a burden on anyone else... we'd all commit suicide. It is the embracement of responsiblity for others that makes live worth living.

Go out there and take as much joy out of life as you can, and stop worrying about the future - which is, after all, out of our control. The rest of us pretend we can control the future because it makes us feel better, but really, that's our problem. There is a liberation in realizing you are not entirely responsible for everything, and you have earned this freedom.

But don't expect those shallow, self-absorbed infantile new-agers to give you any understanding, wisdom, or comfort. They are the antithesis of human nature: they gaze only inward, at themselves, instead of outward, at others.

[Soapy Sam]

Call me a cynic, but I suspect the following may bear on the OP .
1. Professional writers write to make money.
2. What they write may be due less to their own inclination than to what has been selling well lately.
3. What has been selling well lately may be a load of nonsense.

[fuelair]

I am sorry, I did not define my definition of "spiritualism."

Basically, it is looking into the "soul," "life," and its meaning. It is looking at what makes us so special, what gives us our "morals," and emotions.

And also, are we more than just this life. Are we more than just a glob of carbon and water with no purpose?

My suspicion would be that they(or more specifically if this push for 2012 or equivalent seems odd or forced - their editors) are trying to make the book more saleable to the largest possible number of potential customers. The input of others may often be helpful in difficult situations - especially if they have actually been through similar situations - but I have rarely seen such people write books and when they do, the books do not tend to get very sidetracked.

I am trying to say here that I suspect that people writing, speaking, going on the media etc. might not be your best source for help/guidance in that area - but good people in counseling positions and members of support groups might. Best to you!!

And, in answer to your question, yes we have a purpose. To learn what we can, help when we can, reproduce and educate our species, do as little harm as we can, try to make things a little better than they were when we arrived and try to convince those who must believe that there is a higher power that there is no necessity for one for people to be good and caring.:)

[Windom]

Erich "The Funny" Daniken (according to different sources, middle word is "fon") advocatizes heavilly on 2012 as some special date in his Mystery Park, Switzerland.

[Dave1001]

I have even started selling and giving away what I own so that it will not be a burden to others (I can fit everything I own in just a few suitcases), and have even pre-payed for my cremation.

Naturally, when one realizes like I did that nothing material is of value, that everyone is mortal, that pain and suffering are everywhere and that there is no way to avoid it, and that in due time, you will be forgotten and lost to time, it makes one feel insignificant, like what was the point of it all in the first place. After all, we are just specks in a tiny speck in a tiny galaxy, or insignificant. And we are around for just a short time, less than even a blink of an eye when compared to the universe again.

The idea that we crave the preservation of life is absurd when that is not posable.

I encourage you to google alcor foundation as an alternative to cremation.

[Polaris]

The 2012 is easy. This is the 'end' of the famous Mayan sun calendar.

You beat me to it.

2012 is just the new 2000. "End of the World" predictors have been around for a loooooooong time. When 2012 comes and goes and we're all still here, it will probably be 2050 that will be the next End of the World prediction.

[Yahzi]

When 2012 comes and goes and we're all still here, it will probably be 2050 that will be the next End of the World prediction.
Your prediction has a serious flaw.

2050 is 38 years after 2012, which is almost 2 generations. Each generation of woo must have its own End Of The World.

So I'm sure they'll make something up. What's the first prime number after 2000?

:D

[snooziums]

Your mother's plight makes it hard for you, but at least she has you there. It would be a lot worse for her without you.

True. However, since I have he same condition, just not as advanced yet, I realize that I may be feeling the same as she does, but there will be no one for me.

I encourage you to google alcor foundation as an alternative to cremation.

I honestly do NOT want to come back "alive" to this current piece-of-junk body. They would have to give be an all new one. And besides, I cannot afford 150,000 dollars for it, not in the least. I can barely afford rent.

When 2012 comes and goes and we're all still here, it will probably be 2050 that will be the next End of the World prediction.

Who knows? However, I will not be around to see it. 2012, perhaps, but not much farther.


Someone replied in a way that was a bit insightful, so I will re-post it:

In the end, however, there's no real distinction between you and everything else... and the more you realize this, the more comfortable you are with letting go. It's like being in a perpetual and infinitely long relay race... everyone, and everything is moving forward, and even when you fall, you can't help but fall forward... At the 'end' of the race, every runner is indistinguishable from the whole, and there are no losers, and no winners, either... the runners most satisfied were those who at least realized that there was even a race at all... but even that satisfaction is temporal, and is lost altogether in the scope of the race, as a whole.


I guess the large issue is about my mother right now (I still have some time left). She does not want to live any longer and I am kind of in a place where I need to decide to either prevent her from doing anything, or allow her the right to do what she feels she has to with her life. Everyday I see all of the pain and suffering she is in, and I understand why she feels that even the risk of non-existance is preferable to life.

I wish that there were easy answers, however, in my situation, sadly there are not.

[CapelDodger]

The 2012 bit is of no importance. I just happens to be the most popular woo date at this time.
2012 is 12 years after the Y2K woo-date, soon enough to make it personal but plenty of time to earn money in. Expect the following woo-date to be in the 2020's, and expect a lot of the usual suspects to blatantly leech off it despite their past record. Drop the Mayan calender as if it was never mentioned and latch onto something else.

Maybe we of the JREF forums could get ahead of the game? There's money to be made and if we don't make it somebody else will. Not a sound moral argument, I'll agree, but you know ... money. Money's good. :cool: Between us we know enough woo-sites to start planting the seeds.

[osmosis]

Naturally, when one realizes like I did that nothing material is of value, that everyone is mortal, that pain and suffering are everywhere and that there is no way to avoid it, and that in due time, you will be forgotten and lost to time, it makes one feel insignificant, like what was the point of it all in the first place. After all, we are just specks in a tiny speck in a tiny galaxy, or insignificant. And we are around for just a short time, less than even a blink of an eye when compared to the universe again.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

[Polaris]

Your prediction has a serious flaw.

2050 is 38 years after 2012, which is almost 2 generations. Each generation of woo must have its own End Of The World.

So I'm sure they'll make something up. What's the first prime number after 2000?

:D

Ah it doesn't matter. By the time 2050 rolls around, even if I'm right, $1 million will probably be worthless due to inflation and even if it's not, I'll be too old to enjoy it. The US will be a Christian Republic by then, so I'll leave it in a Swiss bank account (hopefully Der Schweiz won't be an Islamic Republic) and secularist partisans can draw from it.

I need to get out more.

[Dave1001]

I honestly do NOT want to come back "alive" to this current piece-of-junk body. They would have to give be an all new one. And besides, I cannot afford 150,000 dollars for it, not in the least. I can barely afford rent.


You should do what's right for you, but FYI they have less expensive options and by the time they can revive you (if they'll be able to), it's reasonable to expect that medical technology should have improved in terms of the type of body you would come back "alive" into.

[Joe Random]

They're out by exactly 100 years.

From Rush's 2112:

ii. the temples of syrinx
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

... the massive grey walls of the temples rise from the
Heart of every federation city. I have always been awed
By them, to think that every single facet of every life is
Regulated and directed from within! our books, our music,
Our work and play are all looked after by the benevolent
Wisdom of the priests...

Their official site uses crappy frames, but here's a link to the page for the album:
2112 (http://www.rush.com/php/discography_detail.php?f=1&id=4)


Glad I wasn't the only one to make that connection. And let me be the first to welcome our new Solar Federation overlords.

[CapelDodger]

Stirring deep in the dustier archives of my mind is the single "In The Year 2525", from the 60's. No details have survived, but I'm pretty sure it had a dystopian flavour.