Police Address Criminal Behavior -- Cities Riot And Burn In Response

[Jedi Knight]

When police go after people on motocycles that are doing over 100 MPH on city streets and the morons that ride the motorcycle crash and die from their own stupidity, it is an excuse to riot (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/18/michigan.unrest/index.html). It is an excuse to burn homes to the ground, shoot people, burn businesses to the ground and loot them and basically act like terrorists.

What those people in Michigan want is the ability for their citizens to go out and commit crimes with impunity without fear of police action. That is what they want. They want to be allowed to be criminals to do whatever crime they feel they want to do and if the police try to arrest them they are rioting.

I can't believe that a chick from that town got on CNN this morning and demanded the police officer who was going after the motorcyclist doing 100 MPH be fired from his job.

"Give us lawlessness or cities burn" should be Michigan's new moto.

JK

[The Fool]

Let me guess, Commies? maybe the feminists? how about homosexuals or atheists......Which vast conspiracy is to blame for this stuff?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Fool
Let me guess, Commies? maybe the feminists? how about homosexuals or atheists......Which vast conspiracy is to blame for this stuff?

Oh, so there is no riot? :rolleyes:

JK

[Jon_in_london]

Something simliar happened here recently (minus the riot), A police car speeding to the scene of a crime hit and killed a pedestrian. This lead to much criticism.

What are the police supposed to do? just let the fleeing suspects get away? ridiculous.

What the hell is wrong with those people in michigan? too much crack?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
What the hell is wrong with those people in michigan? too much crack?

Now that is an interesting observation.

JK

[Jon_in_london]

I think Mr 5.56mm Ball would be a good solution to this problem. Him and a few thousand just like him!

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh, so there is no riot? :rolleyes:

JK
yep, there was a riot alright.
so I repeat my question. What conspiracy are you going to blame? When citizens riot there is obviously something very wrong. Are you interested in discussing what is wrong? I would like to open with poverty and unemployment. How about you? Leftists? feminists? martians?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Fool

yep, there was a riot alright.
so I repeat my question. What conspiracy are you going to blame? When citizens riot there is obviously something very wrong. Are you interested in discussing what is wrong? I would like to open with poverty and unemployment. How about you? Leftists? feminists? martians?

I think the reason is exactly as I explained it in the first post. People in Michigan want to do whatever law-breaking activity they want to with impunity. That means cops who dare to go after dangerous criminal predators are stalked into quitting their jobs or demands are made that they are fired, and the losers in Michigan start riots when cops arrest dangerous criminal felons.

It is not a conspiracy by the police but another example of America being propelled into the 4th world.

I say send in helicopter gunships, German Shepard attack dogs and mechanized infantry into the place and shut the riot down so that the place can be restored to the American model of order and stability, not a 4th world order.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

I could stop that riot with 1 battalion of mechanized infantry in less than 1 hour.

JK

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I could stop that riot with 1 battalion of mechanized infantry in less than 1 hour.

JK

You mean a battalion of those?
http://www.rocketworld.org/spacesoldier.jpg

:)

Zee

[Denise]

I would like to see some comparison of sentences for say... assault that one receives during a riot vs what one receives in normal times. Are people just looking for an excuse to act like maniacs? Are there more riots during the summer than the winter? Just curious.

[Jon_in_london]

Good point Denise,

What the hell is with people in a riot? what the hell do they think they are doing?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Good point Denise,

What the hell is with people in a riot? what the hell do they think they are doing?

What happens is you get informal leaders in that community (NAACP, etc) who exist simply to forment non-existent victimization and it doesn't matter what the reason is--the people riot.

Look at Rodney King. The guy was involved in a similar situation and it took 30 police officers to bring the guy down from his PCP rampage. I don't necessarily agree with 30 police officers clubbing him once he was down, but what were they supposed to do to stop his PCP-induced crime spree?

So the so-called 'leadership' then spins it into a mystical slave-era oppression agenda of some type and then all those criminals who are just standing by in the shadows looking for a venue to express their hate hit the streets and start destroying cities.

What is needed is reasonable, accurate leadership in those communities. People that can say: "Yes, arrest criminals when they break the law, and no we will not riot when the police do so."

The cops were doing their job, that's it. They should be given medals for risking their lives in places like that everyday.

JK

[Tmy]

have some compassion. the people are juts expressing themselves...........o wait thats the excuse when the Iraqi people were looting and rioting. Then it was ok.


The other issue is police chases. If its some monor thing like speeding or whatever, whats the point in engaging in a high speed chase. It turns into one big smokey and the bandit game. Once you have the guys plate your all set, why risk everyones lives for a trival matter.

[Denise]

Why is it acceptable for people to burn down their own neighborhoods because they feel "oppressed?" Most of the people who are hurt by this are small business owners from their own community. Why is it acceptable for college students to rampage after a victory? Because they are young? Please...

[tamiO]

Originally posted by Denise
Why is it acceptable for people to burn down their own neighborhoods because they feel "oppressed?" Most of the people who are hurt by this are small business owners from their own community. Why is it acceptable for college students to rampage after a victory? Because they are young? Please...

I don't find it acceptable, but I do find it understandable.

[Denise]

Originally posted by tamiO


I don't find it acceptable, but I do find it understandable.

Why?

[tamiO]

Originally posted by Tmy
The other issue is police chases. If its some monor thing like speeding or whatever, whats the point in engaging in a high speed chase. It turns into one big smokey and the bandit game. Once you have the guys plate your all set, why risk everyones lives for a trival matter.

Sometimes I wonder if the cops aren't chasing more than they used to and filming the chase to air on their local "Cops" shows. Maybe if you get a particularly good set of footage you can sell it to the bigger shows. Does the department profit from selling footage?

I also wonder if the cops don't get a secret thrill in seeing themselves on television shows and this encourages them to make it a good chase.

I have only seen chases on television, I think it started with OJ and they saw the rating skyrocket. I may be wrong and maybe chases were televised long before OJ was chased.

I agree that once you have a plate or other ID, the chase should be stopped and the criminal tracked and arrested in a way that does not endanger any lives.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by tamiO


I don't find it acceptable, but I do find it understandable.

Lets face it, RIOTS ARE FUN!!! Its freedom in its truest form, then theres the whole danger thing. Kinda like a thrill ride. Then again theres all that damage. Thats not cool.


I really got check thru the archives. Im sure theres a JK post supporting the Iraq riots. I always foudn it hypocritical when these conservatives were so dismissive of the Baghdad riots yet they jump up and down whenever you bringup the LA riots.

[Denise]

Originally posted by tamiO


Sometimes I wonder if the cops aren't chasing more than they used to and filming the chase to air on their local "Cops" shows. Maybe if you get a particularly good set of footage you can sell it to the bigger shows. Does the department profit from selling footage?

I also wonder if the cops don't get a secret thrill in seeing themselves on television shows and this encourages them to make it a good chase.

I have only seen chases on television, I think it started with OJ and they saw the rating skyrocket. I may be wrong and maybe chases were televised long before OJ was chased.

I agree that once you have a plate or other ID, the chase should be stopped and the criminal tracked and arrested in a way that does not endanger any lives.

Do you realize that many chases involve stolen cars? Does the fact that sometimes cops make mistakes give you sympathy to the rioters? How many more innocent victims are there caused by rioters than by police?

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Denise


Do you realize that many chases involve stolen cars? Does the fact that sometimes cops make mistakes give you sympathy to the rioters? How many more innocent victims are there caused by rioters than by police?

Theres more to this than just one high speed chase. Tensions were high for other reasons, this last thing just ignited the riot.

[Doubt]

So I get up this morning and hear about the second night of rioting in Benton Harbor. Now I live on the other side of the state, but my first reaction is WTF? Nobody on this side of the state appeared to have heard about the first night of rioting.

Benton Harbor does not make the news much. Not much happens there as far as we can tell from this side of the state. Not much happening appears to be part of the problem. Most of the local industry left and you now have a town with 12,000 residents and high unemployment.

They are talking about sending in the state police. We only have about 2,000 state troopers to start with. On a good day, they could pull about 500 from other assignments to help with a riot. If this goes on, the National Guard will be called up. The Michigan guard does spend one drill a year on civil disturbance training plus extra training for leaders. They have not done this sort of thing for real since the Detroit riot in the late ‘60s. Should be interesting to see if the 30 year old plans for how to deal with a riot work.

The local news reports say that one of the homes burned was the same one the motorcycle crashed into. I guess the house was at fault for the wreck.

Now as for JK:


People in Michigan want to do whatever law-breaking activity they want to with impunity.


I was born, raised, and currently reside in Michigan. Over generalizations like the one above show you to be a clueless individual. You are using the actions of a few hundred people in a town with a population of 12,000 to make assumptions about the population of a state with over 10,000,000 residents. You abusive extrapolation is like a blind man shooting a gun. You always hit something, but the results are quite messy.

Trivia note: Benton Harbor was the home of Heath Kit electronics. They used to sell radio kits and other items, but went out of business around 20 years ago. That was just one of the businesses that used to be in Benton Harbor.

[tamiO]

Originally posted by Denise


Do you realize that many chases involve stolen cars? Does the fact that sometimes cops make mistakes give you sympathy to the rioters? How many more innocent victims are there caused by rioters than by police?

Yes, of course, some of the chases involve stolen cars. I imagine many of the chases involve people at the wheel who cannot be identified. I think that sometimes cops give chase when they do not need to.

In this case with chasing a motorcycle, it might have been better to follow him by helicopter and catch him when he ran out of gas. As I follow this train of thought, I can see that the guy just might hop off the bike after running out of gas and maybe take hostages in a stand-off.

I don't have answers, I only have speculations about how the media outlets for "Cops" shows encourage chase when chase is not warranted.

No, the fact that sometimes cops make mistakes does not make me sympathetic to the rioters. To me, the cop chase and the riots are two different matters.

How many more innocent victims are there caused by rioters than by police?

I have no idea. If we limit the comparison to innocent victims of cop chases to innocent victims of riots, then I would guess the rioting creates far more victims. This doesn't mean that cops should give chase in cases where they can positively identify the driver.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by The Fool

I would like to open with poverty and unemployment.

When can Benton Harbor expect the aid package from Aust. ?

Once you've fixed that problem, a couple other -- similar -- places can be identified for you to assist.

[Ed]

Originally posted by The Fool

yep, there was a riot alright.
so I repeat my question. What conspiracy are you going to blame? When citizens riot there is obviously something very wrong. Are you interested in discussing what is wrong? I would like to open with poverty and unemployment. How about you? Leftists? feminists? martians?

There is poverty and unemployment all over the place (In Australia too, I bet) why no riots? Unfortunately, we have established precidents in NY and LA and other places that riots will not be dealtwith, that is where the license comes from.

[Kodiak]

Latest MSNBC web article on the rioting in western Michigan (http://www.msnbc.com/news/928099.asp?0cv=CB10)

[Dancing David]

Very sad, I don't get it. Can't support it.
Martial law seems excessive but what else is there to do? In many cities in Illinois they are now coming up with tight protocols for when to engage in a high speed chase because it does endanger life and limb of innocents.
There is no excuse for rioting over something like a motorcycle chase.

This is very sad, of course rioting has a long history.

So is there enough National guard to call them out.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I could stop that riot with 1 battalion of mechanized infantry in less than 1 hour.

JK

Well, I am sure that you could.

However doing so would make the USA look like a fourth world country as opposed to a first world country.

Do you really want that?

By the way, I will rate this thread five stars.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Crossbow
However doing so would make the USA look like a fourth world country as opposed to a first world country.


And letting the riot go unczecked makes the USA look like what?

Martial law. Curfews, checkpoints, body seraches. Looters should be shot on sight. Thats how you stop a riot.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Martial law. Curfews, checkpoints, body seraches. Looters should be shot on sight. Thats how you stop a riot.

Thats a good way to start riots too.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Doubt
I was born, raised, and currently reside in Michigan. Over generalizations like the one above show you to be a clueless individual. You are using the actions of a few hundred people in a town with a population of 12,000 to make assumptions about the population of a state with over 10,000,000 residents. You abusive extrapolation is like a blind man shooting a gun. You always hit something, but the results are quite messy.

Trivia note: Benton Harbor was the home of Heath Kit electronics. They used to sell radio kits and other items, but went out of business around 20 years ago. That was just one of the businesses that used to be in Benton Harbor.

Well good for you. Michigan is a nice state.

That said, the rest of your opinion doesn't cover the foundation of what the problem is that caused the rioting. So take your rose-colored glasses off for a moment and let's cover that together.

The problem is that there are populations in the United States who think it is acceptable for them to riot based upon their perceived thinking of injustices, not the system itself. The piling on comes into play when self-declared unelected leaders of those populations forment racial tension and hatred which also provides a call to action to riot.

If you think the riots are caused by unemployment, that is an even better reason to send in mechanized infantry to smash it. In the Great Depression of 1929 there were never any riots like there are now. That is because the people, even though starving and desperate, had the moral character to not harm their neighbors and destroy property.

What is happening in your state is pre-planned revolutionary activity by barbarians. The only way you deal with barbarians is with superior firepower and jail cells.

There's jobs out there. Military service is a great one. It isn't above them. I served in light infantry in war and my old man was a doctor. There was never a silver spoon hanging out of my mouth. My old man killed Japs in World War II for years before he even went to medical school to become a doctor. My oldest brother did four tours in Vietnam as a US Marine.

Not having a job is no excuse to riot. If jobs leave your town, move to where the jobs are. You have to be flexible with that sort of thing today.

Also, when police arrest dangerous criminal felons, that is also not an excuse to riot.

So how about we cover some facts on how to deal with it instead of thinking in appeasement terms? Telling criminal felons that the system won't reign them in anymore is not the solution to rioting. It is handing over your country to monsters and predators.

I didn't serve my country to allow that to happen and I know others haven't. It just takes guts, leadership and a clear vision of who we are as a country to deal with situations like that. If the leadership of Michigan can't get the job done, they need to resign and let people take over who can.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy


Theres more to this than just one high speed chase. Tensions were high for other reasons, this last thing just ignited the riot.

Tensions were high because of the positive police presence trying to restore quality of life to that area. Naturally criminals will bitch when they can't steal with impunity.

Tell me, if a police officer pulls up behind you and turns on the flashing lights to pull you over for some reason, do you pull over and stop or run away? If you run away and die by crashing your car, should the community be allowed to riot in response?

That is not what my dad taught me growing up.

The issue is civility, respect and obeying the laws of the country. The US isn't oppressive with external laws. How many people think stealing cars and driving 100 MPH down the road is legal? Who would be moronic enough to think people have a reason to riot over police action trying to stop crimes like that?

I say send in the army with full ammo and flexible rules of engagement.

JK

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Tensions were high because of the positive police presence trying to restore quality of life to that area. Naturally criminals will bitch when they can't steal with impunity.

Tell me, if a police officer pulls up behind you and turns on the flashing lights to pull you over for some reason, do you pull over and stop or run away? If you run away and die by crashing your car, should the community be allowed to riot in response?

That is not what my dad taught me growing up.

The issue is civility, respect and obeying the laws of the country. The US isn't oppressive with external laws. How many people think stealing cars and driving 100 MPH down the road is legal? Who would be moronic enough to think people have a reason to riot over police action trying to stop crimes like that?

I say send in the army with full ammo and flexible rules of engagement.

JK

I dont live in Benton so I cant speak for the local tension. I doubt it was because "we cant get away with crime". Thats regoddamndiculous.

Im sure you will defend the police to the end. Go for it. But in LA the people were angry because they perceived a currupt and abusive polce force (their corruption has been investgated an somewhat exposed) . Not to excuse the behavior, but not to chalk it up to people upset about no being able to commit crime.

This bike chase was just the spark.

[jj]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


And letting the riot go unczecked makes the USA look like what?

Martial law. Curfews, checkpoints, body seraches. Looters should be shot on sight. Thats how you stop a riot.

No, Jon, that's how you START a riot. A much bigger riot, one that can easily turn into a civil war.

[Dancing David]

So this is sad. How do people reach the point where they riot. In LA I think there were reasons and I don'tr think it was because some agitator got them stirred up.

The social contract can easily turn ugly, I heard about some really stupiod behavior during anti-war actions in my town. They were not caused by the leaders of the protestes but by the stupidity of the mob.

I hope that they stop rioting, it is ignorant. Ineffective and mainly criminal.

OOOOK hows that for liberal raving

[Denise]

To be honest, I doubt that most of the rioters really cared about the injustice of the police. Look at all the looters grabbing electronics. They saw that people were going crazy and decided that they might as well steal a big ole TV because noone was there to stop them. The older and vulnerable people in the community became prisoners in their own homes because they were afraid to go out on the streets.

[Skeptic]

I could stop that riot with 1 battalion of mechanized infantry in less than 1 hour.

Which is one of the main reasons nobody lets you command a battalion of mechanized infantry, JK.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


And letting the riot go unczecked makes the USA look like what?

Martial law. Curfews, checkpoints, body seraches. Looters should be shot on sight. Thats how you stop a riot.

start doing that and i'll start getting my guns out.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Ed


There is poverty and unemployment all over the place (In Australia too, I bet) why no riots? Unfortunately, we have established precidents in NY and LA and other places that riots will not be dealtwith, that is where the license comes from.

I think the problem is concentrations. 25% unemployment is very high. They know they are angry about something, even if they don't express it correctly.

[Skeptic]

Lets face it, RIOTS ARE FUN!!! Its freedom in its truest form,

As long as nobody YOU know gets hurt, that is.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by hammegk


When can Benton Harbor expect the aid package from Aust. ?

Once you've fixed that problem, a couple other -- similar -- places can be identified for you to assist.
Sorry Hammy....your problem.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Ed


There is poverty and unemployment all over the place (In Australia too, I bet) why no riots? Unfortunately, we have established precidents in NY and LA and other places that riots will not be dealtwith, that is where the license comes from.
well, there are riots in Australia as well as areas where police claim they have lost authority. Now here is the question, is this because the population in these areas are all just criminals who like to riot, as JK claims? Or is it more likely that social problems such as poverty and unemployment have led to the point where a police chase can trigger a riot?

Lets start discussing how these areas get in their present depressed condition. It has much more to do with the likelyhood of riots occuring than anything else I can think of...

You could put a machinegun on each street corner and put down the riot, this may be a valid response in the short term, but what of the future? If JK thinks that american citizens can be repressed by soldiers he is selling americans short.

Bad areas in sydney have been greatly improved lately by the use of social programmes and attempts to address the plight of the occupants rather than simply jacking up the amount of enforcement.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Which is one of the main reasons nobody lets you command a battalion of mechanized infantry, JK.

True, true.

JK

[Cinorjer]

I also live on the other side of the state, and my first response was also "WTF??" Benton Harbor is predominately black, with a black mayor and black Police Chief and predominately black police force. They have an extremely high unemployment rate and, naturally, extremely low graduation rate from their local schools. There are few local jobs to be had. As in all such situations, drug trafficing is a quick way to make some money and a big problem.

So what caused a bunch of bored, frustrated young men to form a mob and tear up their own community? Mobs aren't rational. It's a mixture of anger, frustration, the opportunity to loot, and the rush that comes from destroying things. You might as well ask why Football hooligans show up week after week to beat the crap out of each other and whoever is unlucky enough to catch their eye.

[Dancing David]

Yeah it's all fun until somebody gets there eye poked out.

(or gets raped, there house burnt down)

Set up video cameras and charge the idiots with the crimes they commit.

In tha face of an oppresive regime (traffic laws are oppresive?) then you can riot. But rioting is 'civil war' and these people are dangerous kooks. They think it's okay because they do it in a mob. Well gang rape is still rape and it's wrong.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Yeah it's all fun until somebody gets there eye poked out.

(or gets raped, there house burnt down)

Set up video cameras and charge the idiots with the crimes they commit.

In tha face of an oppresive regime (traffic laws are oppresive?) then you can riot. But rioting is 'civil war' and these people are dangerous kooks. They think it's okay because they do it in a mob. Well gang rape is still rape and it's wrong.

How it all started I had the TV volume turned down and was flipping through the channels looking for a good movie to watch and then I saw what appeared to be a "Planet of the Apes" movie.

So then I cranked the volume up to watch it and then was dismayed when they said: "Live from Michigan".

JK

[Luke T.]

You can imagine the fun they are having with this riot on Stormfront's web site....

Here is my perspective:

Blacks are handicapped by a plethora of problems which whites are not. Some of those handicaps were put there by whites, but more and more of those handicaps are being placed there by the black leadership.

If blacks are suffering injustices, they certainly picked the wrong place to make their stand this time, and many times in the past. They chose to make their stand over the corpse of a fleeing criminal who was responsible for his own death. That is just plain stupid.

And the representatives from the black community I saw on TV last night did nothing to help the matter. They exacerbated it by rolling out the usual list of grievances, and so they stood upon the same corpse. They should have immediately condemned the dead man for his actions, called for the people to choose their battles more wisely, and moved onward and upward.

This country has been moving onward and upward steadily for some time. It is sometimes frustrating that the progress is not as quick as I would like to see it, but these riots are a huge step backward for the black community and I wish they would see how they are shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of thing.

And finally, chances are that the riot was started by one or two crazed fools in the crowd who inflamed the rest. That is all it really takes. Whether it is a black neighborhood, or a college campus. People need to start policing their own better.

[Denise]

Great post Luke! In the nutshell basically.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Luke T.
And the representatives from the black community I saw on TV last night did nothing to help the matter. They exacerbated it by rolling out the usual list of grievances, and so they stood upon the same corpse.

MSNBC is reporting that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are expected in Benton Harbor within the next couple of days...

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Luke T.
.... That is just plain stupid. ...


Gee, who tends to do "stupid" things? Smarter people, or dumber people?

I believe you have identified the root cause.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by hammegk

Gee, who tends to do "stupid" things? Smarter people, or dumber people?

I believe you have identified the root cause.

I hope this not some slur on African Americans , cause whites sure have a history of rioting.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I hope this not some slur on African Americans , cause whites sure have a history of rioting.

Which white riot destroyed the neighborhood the whites were living in? Could have been a few, maybe. But on the scale of Watts? Miami? Benton Harbor? on & on ....

Sorry, the 15 point gap exists. Why is that a "slur"? Lineage negroid also tend to have better fast-muscle response than I do, too. So what?

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I hope this not some slur on African Americans , cause whites sure have a history of rioting.

Don't you get it, DD? When WHITES riot, it's a justified expression of outrage. When BLACKS riot, it's because they're stupid and violent.

(Just saving hammegk the trouble of spelling out his position explicitly. But we all know what he really means, how don't we?)

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by hammegk


Which white riot destroyed the neighborhood the whites were living in? Could have been a few, maybe. But on the scale of Watts? Miami? Benton Harbor? on & on ....

Sorry, the 15 point gap exists. Why is that a "slur"? Lineage negroid also tend to have better fast-muscle response than I do, too. So what?

I am still waiting on the sample size and was there replication of the study too.

Have you ever heard of the riots in New York during the Civil war or the Pullman riot?

The IQ test is still bogus, it only correlates to itself, oh whoopti, a twnty five percent correlation to sucsess in life, pray tell what is the other seventy five percent.

PS I forgot to add : What about all the stupid people who voted for Ross Perot but had high IQs, yeah like he wasn't a mainstream Waashinton insider.

I think you are too intelligent to not know what a slur is, remember we will both be developmentaly disabled on the Bushman test.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I am still waiting on the sample size and was there replication of the study too.

The IQ test is still bogus, it only correlates to itself, oh whoopti, a twnty five percent correlation to sucsess in life, pray tell what is the other seventy five percent.

The FACT of 15 points is incontrovertible. Do some research please since you don't believe it. Also check on the correlations of IQ to many real (1st world) success factors.


Have you ever heard of the riots in New York during the Civil war or the Pullman riot?
You actually want to equate strikes/strike-breakers with black riots over nothing that destroy their own neighborhoods? Pah!


I think you are too intelligent to not know what a slur is, remember we will both be developmentaly disabled on the Bushman test.
The point is, neither of us want to become bushmen, so who would care. Conversely, I'd assert that a bushman with a high IQ would be much better suited to adjust to civilization than a dumb one.

Once again, IQ basically measures the ability to learn.

[Dancing David]

If that was so, then IQ tests would have a higher correlation with sucsess in college. Twenty percent or whatever it is is a pretty poor test. If IQ is such a good predictor of college sucsess then why have the SAT and the ACT?

When IQ tests are correlated in the seventies with something useful then I will think they are useful, I just think we need a better IQ test. Especialy one that includes social skills.

(By the way , your oratorical Pah is quite well placed)

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Dancing David
If that was so, then IQ tests would have a higher correlation with sucsess in college. Twenty percent or whatever it is is a pretty poor test. If IQ is such a good predictor of college sucsess then why have the SAT and the ACT?
The predictability of SAT & ACT so far as I know are correlated directly to those tests correlation to Spearman's 'g' -- "raw" IQ.


When IQ tests are correlated in the seventies with something useful then I will think they are useful,
Yeah, 70% correlations are great predictors. What will you cite in the "social sciences" that acheive such predictiveness? BTW, what do your sources imply as the correlation between SAT results & college graduation rates?


I just think we need a better IQ test. Especialy one that includes social skills.
Various tests exist. For example, Ability To Complete A Task does not seem to correlate to IQ, is measureable, and does have predictive value of "success" in 1st world life (and would also I'd say be useful for bushmen).

[JAR]

About 12,000 people live in Benton Harbor, a predominantly black city on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. Though it was once home to foundries, boat yards and appliance factories, many of its jobs have evaporated and unemployment now runs above 25 percent, according to state records.
As can be seen by this quote, racism is not the cause of the lack of jobs in that city. The city simply can no longer provide as many jobs as it used to due to businesses going out of business and thus the city is overpopulated. When a place becomes overpopulated, it is time for those who can't get a job to move somewhere else.

[Globert]

Originally posted by Denise
Are there more riots during the summer than the winter? Just curious.

Yes, it's the heat, notice they stopped for rain.