THE lie... [Archive]

King of the Americas

18th June 2003, 12:35 PM

Jedi Knight:

YOU 'believe 100%' what these people are saying...?

We are perfect, and no one in the world has ANY reason to attack us, OTHER THAN an attack of jealously or dislike of our liberty and freedom...?

Well, I gotta say, you are mistaken. We have contructed flawed foreign policy, that demonstrates an absolute hypocrisy to those who's lands 'we' occupy. We have disregarded balance and fairness in our policies in the middle east, and the attacks on 9-11 were NOT on 'innocent civilians', but rather symbols of oppression to the attackers.

I understand that you don't feel that this attack was 'justified', but you must be able to understand that the attackers felt is was warranted, albeit harsh.

WE killed innocent people at the end of WWII, and in War civilians die, often in greater numbers that the militarys who wage War.

This was no act of terrorism, but rather at act of War.

The attackers didn't target large civilian numbers, or they'd have hit the Super Bowl or the Olympics.

The hit the 'Cornerstone of Western Capitalism' & 'Our Nation's Military Headquarters'. They didn't pick them because of their civilian significance.

This was ANYTHING BUT an attack on civilian liberty and freedom.

I hope that you can accept that these things are true, because on my word they are.

Dancing David

18th June 2003, 01:07 PM

The attack was not justified.
The attack was not ever going to make sense.

But say I have a spiritual believe that all things are connected and interwoven. That means it is incumbent upon me to figure out how it happened because I am part of the world, the attack was part of the world and so we are connected.

What happened was horrible and wrong.
It will never be right or moral.

But why don't we care when three million Rwandan's get killed. Why don't we care about people starving to death, and my favorite when are we going to stop the terrorism at home, domestic violence.

MR JK you have often spoke about how men kill women because of cause and effect , funny how your logic doesn't apply in all tragic situations. You eloquently defended a cop who gunned down his wife. Same logic applies here.

It is sad it will never be right.

schplurg

18th June 2003, 01:15 PM

Revenge is one thing, but these attacks weren't done for NO reason. Before lashing out and punishing whoever's responsible, why not ask ourselves why anyone would want to attack "the land of the free"?
Why don't they just tell us? If these jerk-offs want understanding, cooking 3000 civilians is a bad way to gain sympathy. We do understand...they don't want sympathy, they want to kill us.

I could equate it with my neighbor throwing a rock through my living room window because I play my stereo too loud (hasn't happened). If you want to be reasonable and talk to me about it, I'll work with you. Break my window though and you will receive a very different reaction from me. This isn't to say they haven't tried explaining their position in the past, I'm just responding to this single event and to the above question. By killing these people, my caring and understanding of their plight went up in flames with the WTC.

King of the Americas

18th June 2003, 01:28 PM

-Has ANYONE from this area EVER 'voiced' any displeasure to us about the level of our tunes?

---

I THINK their stance is that 'we' haven't been listening to them, and that our media outlets have been ignoring their pleas for decades, so our ignorance of the situation is what beget this violence.

Indeed, they used tactics that 'I' would never employ, but we HAVE pulled OUT of Saudia Arabia, which was one of the things on their 'demands' list. So, while the gorup who planned and executed the attack may be 'disersed', they HAVE acheived part of their objective.

We don't lose if we change. We lose if we cease to exist.

Ignoring other people's claims of OUR wrongdoing will surely cause us to 'lose'.

Frostbite

18th June 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by schplurg

Why don't they just tell us? If these jerk-offs want understanding, cooking 3000 civilians is a bad way to gain sympathy. We do understand...they don't want sympathy, they want to kill us.

I could equate it with my neighbor throwing a rock through my living room window because I play my stereo too loud (hasn't happened). If you want to be reasonable and talk to me about it, I'll work with you. Break my window though and you will receive a very different reaction from me. This isn't to say they haven't tried explaining their position in the past, I'm just responding to this single event and to the above question. By killing these people, my caring and understanding of their plight went up in flames with the WTC.

I couldn't agree more. But somehow, these people have been infuriated by what the USA has done and is doing. It's probably mostly religious, with the support of Israel and all, but I believe it's also for economic reasons. Money is slowly but surely draining away from poor regions of the world into richer regions of the world, and eventually that is bound to create some frustrations. Poor becomes poorer, rich becomes richer. The story of mankind's life. I think we should learn from the revolutions in history, and try not to recreate these same mistakes. The West doesn't necessarily have bad intentions, but it's sad that most people are apathetic concerning the world's poverty. I'm 26 years old and thousands of children have been dying every day in Africa for as long as I can remember. Why has nothing ever been done to stop the famine? It's stuff like that that gets on my nerves. People should not be forced to give; I don't believe in the imposition of anything by force. Way more than that: giving away your hard-earned cash to make the world a better place should be part of our very culture.

Jedi Knight

18th June 2003, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Dancing David
The attack was not justified.
The attack was not ever going to make sense.

But say I have a spiritual believe that all things are connected and interwoven. That means it is incumbent upon me to figure out how it happened because I am part of the world, the attack was part of the world and so we are connected.

What happened was horrible and wrong.
It will never be right or moral.

But why don't we care when three million Rwandan's get killed. Why don't we care about people starving to death, and my favorite when are we going to stop the terrorism at home, domestic violence.

MR JK you have often spoke about how men kill women because of cause and effect , funny how your logic doesn't apply in all tragic situations. You eloquently defended a cop who gunned down his wife. Same logic applies here.

It is sad it will never be right.

One of these days I am going to be a college professor if things work in my favor. I believe that is where my destiny lies. Let me share with you the real reason why America was attacked on 911 and it had nothing to do with anything the radical left is saying about US foreign policy, US actions in history--none of it.

I will tell you what it was all about. It is all about business. Osama Bin Ladin and his terrorist crew attacked the US on 911 because of business.

Osama and his crew wants the oil in the middle east. Osama planned to hold the world, especially the west, hostage as his radical form of Islam spread into the oil-producing states. Osama knew that in his homeland of Saudi Arabia and the other oil-producing nations there sat $45 trillion dollars in oil waiting to be plundered. Osama saw that as the venue to spread his version of radical Islam globally while dominating the west economically. That is what the attacks on 911 were about. It was about Osama's vision to cleanse the middle east and all Muslim nations of Christians and anyone who wasn't of his heritage. It was about raising the price of oil to $100.00 a barrel, creating an economic disaster in the west costing tens of millions of jobs. It was about the final cleansing of the Jews. It was about everything that divides the world and imperils it.

The second underlying phase of Al Qaida's intent and objectives were to eliminate the Jewish nation-state of Israel and remove all non-Muslim peoples from the region forever. That form of fascism cannot be tolerated and it has nothing to do with US involvement between the Palestinians and the State of Israel and everything to do with conservative Islam's desire for global conquest as a fascist ideology.

Before the attacks on 911, the United States was the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan, the headquarters of the leadership cell that arranged and ordered the attacks on the WTC. Prior to that, the United States saved hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Southern Europe from the onslaught of genocide there and a complacent and silent Europe. We also helped many African nations who hold majority Muslim populations.

So don't give me any crap about US policy being the reason why Al Qaida attacked us and that we deserved it. That is historical revisionism, sloppy thinking and perpetuates the lie that a man worth $450,000,000 and the leader of Al Qaida is some type of oppressed individual by the United States and US policy.

Osama and his organization are businessmen like a mafia and their destruction should be viewed as something celebrated in history as the antithesis to everything the United States and all free peoples stands for. Al Qaida are murderers, petty thieves and barbarians. When they die, I cheer.

Hopefully soon I will be able to cheer with classrooms full of college students as I teach them the real deal of what is really going on in the world, and not leftist pseudo-logic.

JK

Mike B.

18th June 2003, 02:49 PM

Oh Hell KOA,

What if we just had a big rock concert?

That would solve the problem, right?

The world would become a brotherhood of man...

:p

aerocontrols

18th June 2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by aerocontrols

Who are you quoting? Donald Rumsfeld? Can I see a link?

Guess not... :confused:

WildCat

18th June 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Frostbite
I'm 26 years old and thousands of children have been dying every day in Africa for as long as I can remember. Why has nothing ever been done to stop the famine? It's stuff like that that gets on my nerves. People should not be forced to give; I don't believe in the imposition of anything by force. Way more than that: giving away your hard-earned cash to make the world a better place should be part of our very culture.
Let us know when you send your check to Mugabe, I'm sure he'll use it wisely. :rolleyes:

And no need to worry about West Africa any more, the UN has just appointed the country that trained all the limb-hackers of that region (Libya) as its human rights watchdog. If anyone can stop it, Khadaffi can! Can't he? Oh, never mind.

The Fool

18th June 2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

One of these days I am going to be a college professor if things work in my favor. I believe that is where my destiny lies.
That may be possible JK. You would probably need to review your policy on honesty and integrity. Or do you only manufacture fake quotes and statistics on this forum because you figure you are anonymous and it doesn't matter? Do you have a higher standard of honesty and integrity with your college work?

King of the Americas

19th June 2003, 06:47 AM

I couldn't agree more. But somehow, these people have been infuriated by what the USA has done and is doing. It's probably mostly religious, with the support of Israel and all, but I believe it's also for economic reasons. Money is slowly but surely draining away from poor regions of the world into richer regions of the world, and eventually that is bound to create some frustrations. Poor becomes poorer, rich becomes richer. The story of mankind's life.

*The only problem is your myopic view of the matter. It is not about the rich just getting richer. Wealth is finite, it has to come from somewhere. The poorER countires aren't happy about their wealth going to us, nor are they happy about us using that wealth to build a large more intrusive military, that we unfairly use to directly benefit our economy. It isn't religious, but it IS 'cultural'. We are empiralistic in our foreign policy. The leaders in these countires do NOT wan't a McD's on every corner and their kids listening to Britney Spears. Now, 'some' of the people in these countries DO want all things American. Think if it like OUR leaders trying to protect us from the evils of marijuana coccain, or herion. They don't want 'America' in their Muslim country, just like we don't want Herion in our Christian country.

I think we should learn from the revolutions in history, and try not to recreate these same mistakes. The West doesn't necessarily have bad intentions, but it's sad that most people are apathetic concerning the world's poverty.

*Actually, we demonstrate much more than apathy. In some cases we are the direct cause of this suffering.

I'm 26 years old and thousands of children have been dying every day in Africa for as long as I can remember. Why has nothing ever been done to stop the famine?

*Because there is no direct economic benefit. They simply don't have anything we want.

It's stuff like that that gets on my nerves. People should not be forced to give; I don't believe in the imposition of anything by force. Way more than that: giving away your hard-earned cash to make the world a better place should be part of our very culture.

*Agreed.

Jedi Knight

19th June 2003, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by The Fool

That may be possible JK. You would probably need to review your policy on honesty and integrity. Or do you only manufacture fake quotes and statistics on this forum because you figure you are anonymous and it doesn't matter? Do you have a higher standard of honesty and integrity with your college work?

My information and statistics are the most accurate ever seen in the history of man.

JK

King of the Americas

19th June 2003, 07:07 AM

One of these days I am going to be a college professor if things work in my favor. I believe that is where my destiny lies. Let me share with you the real reason why America was attacked on 911 and it had nothing to do with anything the radical left is saying about US foreign policy, US actions in history--none of it.

*...radical left, ehh?

I will tell you what it was all about. It is all about business. Osama Bin Ladin and his terrorist crew attacked the US on 911 because of business.

*Okay, I can see you relating 'business' to an attack on the WTC, but what do you make of the attack on the Pentagon, and the attempt to strike at Congress?

Osama and his crew wants the oil in the middle east. Osama planned to hold the world, especially the west, hostage as his radical form of Islam spread into the oil-producing states. Osama knew that in his homeland of Saudi Arabia and the other oil-producing nations there sat $45 trillion dollars in oil waiting to be plundered. Osama saw that as the venue to spread his version of radical Islam globally while dominating the west economically. That is what the attacks on 911 were about. It was about Osama's vision to cleanse the middle east and all Muslim nations of Christians and anyone who wasn't of his heritage. It was about raising the price of oil to $100.00 a barrel, creating an economic disaster in the west costing tens of millions of jobs. It was about the final cleansing of the Jews. It was about everything that divides the world and imperils it.

*You are kind of jumping around here, and your aren't providng any background information, or any evidence as to these claims...that may I add, contradict most of what I have heard Osama himself say. "It was about everything that divides the world and imperils it." ...? Really? You might be right, but 'it' isn't Osama or his group's plan. The world IS a dangerous place, and our dispersed military based in more than 40 different countries isn't helping people to love and appreciate us.

The second underlying phase of Al Qaida's intent and objectives were to eliminate the Jewish nation-state of Israel and remove all non-Muslim peoples from the region forever. That form of fascism cannot be tolerated and it has nothing to do with US involvement between the Palestinians and the State of Israel and everything to do with conservative Islam's desire for global conquest as a fascist ideology.

*Then my not attack Israel directly? Why attackig the Penagon at all? So now they are 'fascists', who want to take over the 'globe' in the nameof Islam...? WHAT on God's green Earth leads you to these conclusions!?!? These guys are pissed that we hypocritically protected a Monarchy, so that they could sell us cheap oil. Osama was kicked out of the family and the country for protesting 'infidels on the Holy Land'. That's the U.S. Military in Saudia Arabia, to us. Osama was/is a man for the common people in Saudia Arabia who live in squaller, while the Al Saud Royality live in palaces of gold. THAT is why so many in the Middle East rally behind him. He often points to American hypocrisy, in our willingness to protect Dictators & Kings, so long at it benefits us financially, while we tout our suppoort for Freedom, Democracy, and Liberty.

Before the attacks on 911, the United States was the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan, the headquarters of the leadership cell that arranged and ordered the attacks on the WTC. Prior to that, the United States saved hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Southern Europe from the onslaught of genocide there and a complacent and silent Europe. We also helped many African nations who hold majority Muslim populations.

*Indeed, we HAVE helped a lot of people, and done a lot of good. But that doens't mean we aren't hypocritical, emperialistic, and seen an intrusive to foreign countries.

So don't give me any crap about US policy being the reason why Al Qaida attacked us and that we deserved it. That is historical revisionism, sloppy thinking and perpetuates the lie that a man worth $450,000,000 and the leader of Al Qaida is some type of oppressed individual by the United States and US policy.

*Well, that is EXACTLY what I propose. And if you don't believe it, I suggest you take a trip OUTSIDE the U.S. Listen to programs OTHER than Fox News and talk radio. Hell, do something really crazy like be 'skeptical' of this administration.

Osama and his organization are businessmen like a mafia and their destruction should be viewed as something celebrated in history as the antithesis to everything the United States and all free peoples stands for. Al Qaida are murderers, petty thieves and barbarians. When they die, I cheer.

*I fear that this same ignorance may be previlant in the middle east about our present leadership.

Hopefully soon I will be able to cheer with classrooms full of college students as I teach them the real deal of what is really going on in the world, and not leftist pseudo-logic.

*Is ANYTHING that contradicts your stance immediately labeled "leftest pseudo-logic"?

King of the Americas

19th June 2003, 07:13 AM

That was 'THE lie' perpetrated by this Administration. EVERYONE from the President to Miss Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, and Ari have said this in some way or another.

As I was creating this post, I actually heard Donald Rumsfeld say live- "There was no reason for the 9-11 attacks...", and then he pontificated on the "lunacy" of believing that there is ANY relation to these attacks and our flawed or failed foreign policy in the Middle East.

Sorry I missed your previous post.

;)

aerocontrols

19th June 2003, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
That was 'THE lie' perpetrated by this Administration. EVERYONE from the President to Miss Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, and Ari have said this in some way or another.

Thanks. I'll assume your claim is as true as the evidence you've provided demonstrates it to be.

Dancing David

19th June 2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Hopefully soon I will be able to cheer with classrooms full of college students as I teach them the real deal of what is really going on in the world, and not leftist pseudo-logic.

JK

Thats certainly one of the better explanations I have heard, or read. (A little more academic rigour and statistics and you've got a thesis there)

As I recall most colleges promote alot of rightist pseudo logic. Of course I live in the Heartland where being a moderate Republican makes you a 'liberal'. And at no point did I say that our foriegn policy caused AQ to attack us. I feel that they may have chosen us because of our policy of trying to stop them, that and the fact that bashing the biggest country gets free publicity.

So your roghtist viewpoints will fit in with most of the teaching done in the Midwest. Hope to read your sociology on warfare someday.

rikzilla

19th June 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
...that had done the MOST damage to public awareness, lately is:

"There was no reason for the attacks of 9-11, other than to strike out at American Liberty and Freedom."

Donald Rumsfeld just said, that there was NO coinciding action reaction, thing going on, in the way of failed foreign policy and the attacks of terrorism on America or its citizens.

WHY are we so...no HOW can we be so ignorant to believe this *****!?

Such an eloquent post deserves an equally mature reply, which causes me to say:

Troll, troll....booty-hole! :D

Go back to the Howard Sternites KOA.

Mike B.

19th June 2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by The Fool

That may be possible JK. You would probably need to review your policy on honesty and integrity. Or do you only manufacture fake quotes and statistics on this forum because you figure you are anonymous and it doesn't matter? Do you have a higher standard of honesty and integrity with your college work?

Don't worry Fool,

I am sure "How the Matriarchal Feminazi Communists destroyed the Civilization on Mars" will be peer-reviewed.

;)

E.J.Armstrong

19th June 2003, 11:43 AM

originally posted by Jedi Knight
My information and statistics are the most accurate ever seen in the history of man.
A whole new category of mendacity is born!

We now appear to have the following sequence - lies, damn lies, statistics and Jedi Knight's claims.

At least statisticians don't run away when their conclusions are challenged.

Jedi Knight

19th June 2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong

A whole new category of mendacity is born!

We now appear to have the following sequence - lies, damn lies, statistics and Jedi Knight's claims.

At least statisticians don't run away when their conclusions are challenged.

Well Igor, when you're ready to challenge me between carrying corpses up into your bell tower, bring it on.

JK

E.J.Armstrong

19th June 2003, 11:50 AM

originally posted by Rikzilla
Go back to the Howard Sternites KOA. Can we all join in? Hows about go back to the Donald Rumsfeld (Professor Emeritus Summa Cum Laude) University of Truth and World Peace and Providing WOMD to Brutal Dictators While Pretending to Love the Eye Raqi People Rik.

Or is that too long?

E.J.Armstrong

19th June 2003, 11:53 AM

originally posted by Jedi Knight
Well Igor, when you're ready to challenge me between carrying corpses up into your bell tower, bring it on.

Ok Klaus. You wouldn't recognise the truth if it fell into your leg iron manufacturing machine.

gnome

19th June 2003, 12:45 PM

I would like to try to make a logical point here... that just because the terrorists' reasons for attacking us were unjustified, does not mean that these were not their actual reasons and we can invent things like "They hate freedom." to dismiss them.

To explain. If my neighbor Joe thinks I murdured his brother Stan (fictional people, for this example)... although in truth Stan died in a shootout with police after trying to rob me...

That doesn't mean Joe is just jealous of my home, or whatever other simplistic motive I care to present. Maybe I can convince Joe that it was his brother's own fault. Maybe I can't, and I'll have to fight Joe to defend myself. But doesn't it make sense to try to distinguish that, instead of just saying, "He just hates my big house, I'll never have peace until I kill him."

King of the Americas

20th June 2003, 07:19 AM

"And at no point did I say that our foriegn policy caused AQ to attack us. "

*Then you are an IGNORant fool. In that you 'foolishly' IGNORE what your enemy is saying to your face, as he threatens to hit you, again.

Take a hint, they don't hate what we do in OUR backyard. They are pissed because of what we are doing in THEIR backyard.

They've siad over and over again, "THEY ARE PROTECTING THIER HOMELAND/HOLY LANDS."

You know what? You may not want to believe it, but that won't stop it from being true. You guys are living in a world of denial. And the ONLY people who are going to take away or attack your liberty & freedom are those who say they are 'protecting' you from the terrorists.

Wake up, and stop dreaming!

People are pissed at us, and it isn't just because Britney Spears is half naked most of the time.

*40 COUNTIRES*

That is how many places we are, in force via our military. And guess what, they aren't all 'Democratic Republics', where the people get to vote for who they want as their leader.

Please...open your eyes to the world. Please, look beyond the myopicy of Fox News, talk radio, and the current administration. Our future is in the hands of your understanding the true nature of the American Empire.

Dancing David

20th June 2003, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
[B

*Then you are an IGNORant fool. In that you 'foolishly' IGNORE what your enemy is saying to your face, as he threatens to hit you, again.

[/B]

Hey king watch your mouth there, you know not of which you speak and make yourself to appear ignorant in the process.

If you have a care I could tell you what I feel, but I think you are just spaming whoever writes to this thread.

All things are conected dude. Life is a web, yank on the net and all the lines change shape.

There are causal factors that led to the 9-11 attacks, they are multiple and diverse
-fundamenatalism in the arab, and the christian world
-third world nations tierd of the world capitalist economy
-first world nations allowing the imolation of islamic culture(Bosnia)
-foolish and short sided forst world nations living like idiots
- oppresive regimes of all sorts
-ignorant petty individuals creating evil

But to specificaly say, this: American power, support of Israel, injustice in the world, arab suffering, American stupidity : led directly to a bunch of kooks flying airplanes into the WTC is not prove-able and speculation.

Those are contributing causes and factors that lead to people making excuses for heinous crimes, just as there are other people who look for excuses for equally heinous crimes. But those kooks in this case were not automata , they made choices to commit evil. They are accounatable for what they did.
Just as every human who does an evil act is accounatable for the evil they commit.

Evil creates evil, but you can't link american evil and say that it leads to kook evil.

We are all accounatable, our nation is guilty of many crimes and great evils, we did it, no one made us do it. But those kooks did it , no one made them do it, they are accounatable.

I have tried to find compassion in my heart for all those who suffer, and I have even tried to understand where people come from when they commit evil acts. But that does not excuse those acts , that does not justify those acts.

Yes, we are all accountable, we should all remember that life is a web and that our actions do have consequences. But accountability says that we are able to make choices. We are accountable for our choices.

So next time you decide to go off on me KoA, ask before you assume.

King of the Americas

20th June 2003, 08:05 AM

I merely quoted you, and characterized your doing so.

I think you are confusing the issue here which this 'kookery'.

How exactly did we know WHO was responsible for this act so fast?

Within minutes of the second plane hitting the building 'I' heard a CNN news reporter use the name "Osama bin Laden".

So 'someone' knew this guy was pissed at us.

On his tape, he makes 3 points/warrants that justified to THEM their attacks against the United States' symbols.

-That we hyporcitically support a monarchy, and that our troops are on their Holy Land.
-That we 'unfairly' support Israel
and...

I don't remember, at the moment.

But he made 3 outstanding points, that every bigtime news outlet ignored, and instead heeded the words of the Presdient:

"These are madmen killers who have no justification for these acts. They just wanted to kill innocent Americans, because they are jealous of how free we are!"

And THAT is a LIE.

These guys DID have, what they believed to be valid reasons. They were NOT 'crazy' out of their mind wackos. They were part of a military campaign to change U.S. foreign policy. They were just willing to die for the cause, just as OUR soliders are willng to die to protect OUR campaign objectives.

It is NOT 'unthinkable' that someone in the world would find fault with American Policies, to the point of risking their lives to change it.

They deem this a protection of their homeland. You see, 'they' aren't the ones using military force to set up settlements 'in America', forceably changing our laws and leaders. WE are the ones quartering soliders in places they are unwanted.

Your disqualification of their motives, due to speculative conclusions about their sanity have no basis, and ignores what their spokesperson has said repeatedly.

Dancing David

20th June 2003, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
I think you are confusing the issue here which this 'kookery'.

Your disqualification of their motives, due to speculative conclusions about their sanity have no basis, and ignores what their spokesperson has said repeatedly.

You must not have read my posts on the Iraq War, the War on Terrorism or Iraq's new government. I condem GWB for his bogus and hyberbolic stance.
I do not wonder what there motives are, evil acts are reprehensible and they can not be justified. I don't care what thier mouthpiece says there acts are not justified, nor explainable.
many people who commit evil acts blame others for them.
I condem our government for holding prisoners in detention without fair hearing, I condem our government for turning ablind eye to suffering in the world, I condem our government for supporting evil facist regimes.
They are kooks, if they want to fight a war then there are better ways to conduct one, by your logic the kooks are responsible for the war on terrorism.

My calling them kooks is unrelated to thier mental staus, I call people kooks who do crazy things thinking that they are doing 'good','justice','freedom' and the 'right thing' when what they do is evil. I call them kooks because I wish to take all power away from the evil act they commited. I do them no honor and curse them into the void and darkness, along with all kooks who commit evil

King of the Americas

20th June 2003, 08:41 AM

...is the President 'kooky' to you?

---

*EDITED TO ADD*

Are OUR occupations of foreign lands by military force, often against and on 'civilian populations'...'kooky'?

Why it is WE can invade a country, set up a military base, oppress, or help oppress a people, and then turn around and say that those 'rebel forces' trying to overturn our oppression or the oppression WE choose to impose upon them are...'kooky'.

Look the 'Democratic Way' of diplomacy of Peace and understanding has been 'DROPPED or ABANDON' by the United States just as often as those 'radical groups' in the Middle East.

I think you are trying to diminish the validity of the attack itself.

'Kooks'...?

I'm just not seeing that. Remember, "ALL is fair in Love & War."

If you came in MY house and tried to oppress me, or change the leadership in my home... Man you better be ready for you and your's to suffer for your tresspasses against me.

And the greater your tresspasses become the more ruthless my attacks will be, period.

Okay, IF you 'condem' the administration for their conduct, why can't you apply that to what other people might think of us?

YOU are an American, who can identify our wrongdoing. Imagine if you were on the business end of that stick!?

Related to, interconnected with, OR 'the DIRECT cause of'...

War is ugly, sometimes REALLY ugly.

Why do you consider the actions of defenders, kooky? Why aren't the invaders the kooky ones? Or is all violence and War kooky to you?

Quasi

20th June 2003, 09:06 AM

What do you mean we are not helping Africa? Ever heard of the United Nations? How about the tons of food we sent over to Africa, but they sent it back? How about the fact that African nations are run by bloodthirsty dictators who steal all of the aid we send over. Talk about a mess. Until the people of Africa stop tolerating dictators and nonsense, you can expect a series of diseases/famine/wars to continue to wipe most of them out. Further, what about 9-11? Osama had a scheme to set up theocracies all over eurasia. We threatened this with our ties to Russia and Israel. Osama grew up a rich spoiled rotten brat, and nothing has changed. When he couldnt get his way, he blew up innocent, unarmed people which is what terrorist cowards are best at. What was the motivation? power and greed on the part of Osama and others, not some sort of cultural rebellion against the US. This whole islam thing is just a smokescreen to stop his followers from waking up and smelling the crap he is shoveling. They criticise the US, yet keep their currency in US dollars, just like Saddam and his 650 million US$ in the wall. All these clues should point out their true socipathic motives. Unfortunately, the middle east is still socially primitive, with monarchies and bedouins, and loads of money. I wonder what will happen when we stop using middle eastern fossil fuels around ~2050 give or take a decade?

Dancing David

20th June 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
...is the President 'kooky' to you?

---

*
Why it is WE can invade a country, set up a military base, oppress, or help oppress a people, and then turn around and say that those 'rebel forces' trying to overturn our oppression or the oppression WE choose to impose upon them are...'kooky'.

I think you are trying to diminish the validity of the attack itself.

Okay, IF you 'condem' the administration for their conduct, why can't you apply that to what other people might think of us?

Why do you consider the actions of defenders, kooky? Why aren't the invaders the kooky ones? Or is all violence and War kooky to you?

Yes the president is a kook in my book.

I have a long history of disagreeing with our countries foriegn policy, including but not limited to : The Monroe doctrine, a century of interference if Nicuragua, two inavasions of Mexico, the support of the Shah, the deposition of Allende and the support of Pinochet, current support for Pakistan, selling arms to third world nations... the list is very long. I objected to the second Iraq war but will not condem our soldiers. I no longer protest the war but disagree with it.

Yes I am trying to fight the validity of the 9-11 attack, they are kooks because it is not a valid way of fighting war. So I try to diminish thier power by calling them kooks, what they did was wrong. Had they declared war and bought thier own planes and then attacked it would still be wrong but slightly (.000001%) less evil.

When our army kills civilians deliberately it is an act of evil.(Dresden and Tokyo)

I am apply a standard that says you can't blame your evil on other people's actions, you must take accountability for evil.

The 9-11 attackers were not defending anything, they commited an act of evil because they knew there evil was going to be splasged acroos the media. They are not defenders, they are perpetrators, had they stood infront of bull dozers then they are defenders, they are agressors and perpetrators.

And yes all violence and especialy war is kooky. there are times that you fight evil because it is evil. there are times that you kill evil people because they will continue to commit evil.

But to fight evil you can't just kill innocent people and call it justice.

( I have a grudge against violent people, I am not that compassionate yet. Perpetratots of violence always blame the victime, they are still perpetrators, no matter what they say , they are accounatble, not the people they blame. When Isreal kills innocents they should be accountable, when kooks bomb the WTC they should be accounatble. No one makes someone beat thier wife, no one made them do it.)

Mike B.

20th June 2003, 05:15 PM

HEY KOA,

Didn't you in another thread say it was GWB himself behind 9/11?

Your startling evidence was that he kept reading the book about the goat to the children after he was told, and so therefore must have known beforehand.

Don't your two "theories" contradict?

King of the Americas

23rd June 2003, 09:05 AM

Yes the president is a kook in my book.

*Okay.

I have a long history of disagreeing with our countries foriegn policy, including but not limited to : The Monroe doctrine, a century of interference if Nicuragua, two inavasions of Mexico, the support of the Shah, the deposition of Allende and the support of Pinochet, current support for Pakistan, selling arms to third world nations... the list is very long. I objected to the second Iraq war but will not condem our soldiers. I no longer protest the war but disagree with it.

*Look, I 'support the PROPER use' of our soliders. Moreover, I 'hope & pray' that they all return home safely to their families. However, I 'protest heavily' lying in order to justify an invasion, lying to cover up our own wongdoings, ahh forget it, I am sick of the lying altogether!

Yes I am trying to fight the validity of the 9-11 attack, they are kooks because it is not a valid way of fighting war. So I try to diminish thier power by calling them kooks, what they did was wrong. Had they declared war and bought thier own planes and then attacked it would still be wrong but slightly (.000001%) less evil.

*Look, I am feel'n ya on this whole passivity thing. Turn the other check and so on. But 'some people' see fit to defend their homeland by any means possible. And THAT means using whatever force you can to overwhelm your enemy. You think just because they used our own planes against us, that they are 'bad' or worse than any other successful military campaign that has been launched??? Oh come on!? Can't you at least admit their accomplishment in striking a blow until the very heart of our military headquarters?

You seem to fault them for not 'facing us like real men in the battlefield'. But to do so would be more than mere suicide...

Our Revolutionary War Troops, did 'fight fair' either and I think for us to do so would have been foolish and it would likely have ended in failure.

The only Rule to War is that you should try to maximize your efficiency to inflict as much damage as you can to your enemy, with as little effort as you can expand.

As I said before, we KNEW these guys were pissed at us. They HAD attacked several other U.S. targets before, which is supposedly why we KNEW this had "Osama's fingerprints on it", from the get go.

"When our army kills civilians deliberately it is an act of evil.(Dresden and Tokyo)"

I am apply a standard that says you can't blame your evil on other people's actions, you must take accountability for evil.

*Agreed.

The 9-11 attackers were not defending anything, they commited an act of evil because they knew there evil was going to be splasged acroos the media.

*Then you IGNORE my claims and their repeated accusations.

They are not defenders, they are perpetrators, had they stood infront of bull dozers then they are defenders, they are agressors and perpetrators.

*I THINK they have been protesting American foreign policy in many ways. It is only when they were willing to hurl themselves at civilians targets that we finally have an ear to their voices. Sadly, and even regretably we have misconstrued their motive, and now are living the lie.

"And yes all violence and especialy war is kooky. there are times that you fight evil because it is evil. there are times that you kill evil people because they will continue to commit evil."

*What IS 'evil'...? I mean is it 'evil' to break into someone's house, kill them and take thier home and belongings? It is 'evil to push someone off of their land using overwhemling military force? Is it 'evil' to take a stand against these forces, that would invade and capture your lands and property? It is 'evil' to have a say of what happen in your homeland?

"But to fight evil you can't just kill innocent people and call it justice."

( I have a grudge against violent people, I am not that compassionate yet. Perpetratots of violence always blame the victime, they are still perpetrators, no matter what they say , they are accounatble, not the people they blame. When Isreal kills innocents they should be accountable, when kooks bomb the WTC they should be accounatble. No one makes someone beat thier wife, no one made them do it.)

*A very interesting point, and one in which I can't wholly disagree with.

I think EVERYONE is guilty of dropping the olive branch, and that includes the United States. But to say that someone didn't have and genuinely express a clear motive, especially in complete ignorance of their repeated claims...does a dis-service to truth.

These weren't mindless killers looking for T.V. exposure, as you claim.

King of the Americas

23rd June 2003, 09:16 AM

HEY KOA,

Didn't you in another thread say it was GWB himself behind 9/11?

*No, I said that his actions on 9-11, after he was informed that we were 'under attack', mounted to no less than 'Dereliction of Duty' with his continuing to read the goat book, while there were no less than 2 more planes off course and headed to targets...AND 'he' was the only one who could give the order that they be downed.

"Your startling evidence was that he kept reading the book about the goat to the children after he was told, and so therefore must have known beforehand."

*He HAD been versed that this 'kind' of thing could happen, beforehand. THAT he kept reading the book, NOT acting like the Commander in Chief, is what I am not happy about. That he LIED about the reasons for the 9-11 attacks is not connected with his actions, unless...

Don't your two "theories" contradict?

*Not that I can see. In fact, I think one could easily draw some conclusion that leave one feeling quite uncomfortable with the actions of this Administration beforem during, and after the 9-11 attacks...

Dancing David

23rd June 2003, 09:17 AM

What our piss poor policy in Isreal does to people does not excuse the 9-11 attack, it does not justify it. Nor does it excuse it.

And they did it for the media coverage, of course they did it for the media coverage.

There are many braver things they could have dome as well, there is more bravery in peaceful protest than there is in a sucker punch.

It was an attack designed to get a response, had they chosen other means they would have mt admiration. Instead I curse them into the void, they are kooks, and they have ruined whatever goal they may have had by acting like kooks.

KOOKS, KOOKS, KOOKS.

King of the Americas

23rd June 2003, 09:37 AM

To Dancing Dave:
"And at no point did I say that our foriegn policy caused AQ to attack us. "

*Then you are an IGNORant fool. In that you 'foolishly' IGNORE what your enemy is saying to your face, as he threatens to hit you, again.

Take a hint, they don't hate what we do in OUR backyard. They are pissed because of what we are doing in THEIR backyard.

They've siad over and over again, "THEY ARE PROTECTING THIER HOMELAND/HOLY LANDS."

You know what? You may not want to believe it, but that won't stop it from being true. You guys are living in a world of denial. And the ONLY people who are going to take away or attack your liberty & freedom are those who say they are 'protecting' you from the terrorists.

Wake up, and stop dreaming!

People are pissed at us, and it isn't just because Britney Spears is half naked most of the time.

*40 COUNTIRES*

That is how many places we are, in force via our military. And guess what, they aren't all 'Democratic Republics', where the people get to vote for who they want as their leader.

Please...open your eyes to the world. Please, look beyond the myopicy of Fox News, talk radio, and the current administration. Our future is in the hands of your understanding the true nature of the American Empire.

---

What our piss poor policy in Isreal does to people does not excuse the 9-11 attack, it does not justify it. Nor does it excuse it.

*Do you think that the Native Americans who fought against Westward Expansionism did so 'justly'?

And they did it for the media coverage, of course they did it for the media coverage.

*I think if you mean they did it to bring the global light and attention to their plight, I think you are right.

There are many braver things they could have dome as well, there is more bravery in peaceful protest than there is in a sucker punch.

*Sometimes it takes the sucker punch to get someone's attention.

It was an attack designed to get a response, had they chosen other means they would have mt admiration. Instead I curse them into the void, they are kooks, and they have ruined whatever goal they may have had by acting like kooks

KOOKS, KOOKS, KOOKS.

*The Native Americans were called 'SAVAGES SAVAGES SAVAGES' to justify their slaughter. They couldn't possibly have a rational reason for 'scalping women and children'. These were the actions of mindless, moralless, killers, animals even! They had NO justification for the kind of 'evil' they partook in. They would have been much braver if they had held peacefull protests...
:rolleyes:

You are WRONG in every sense of the word in ignoring the complaints of those who would use force to change your ways. In fact, your continued ignorance invites more harsh attacks upon greater numbers until you ARE willing to understand that YOUR wrongful actions have consequences.

Mike B.

23rd June 2003, 10:47 AM

KOA,

You, like many, seem to be projecting what YOU believe onto the minds of the 9/11 terrorists.

They left a paper trail of why they did what they did.
It was quite explicit.
They did not like the fact that INFIDEL soldiers were guarding the holy sites of Islam where the "Prophet received his revelations."
When they took the planes they shouted, "ALLAH AKBAR!!!" Since this is supposed to make the kafir tremble. Their letters are constantly refering to GOD and the eternal bliss they believed was theirs for doing this.

I have read people on here for months say they know the "real reason" for 9/11 and then project some left-wing agenda onto the terrorists, an agenda that would be completely foreign to them.

Do you have any evidence your diatrabe was the reason they did what they did? Do you have statements from them?

King of the Americas

24th June 2003, 07:11 AM

....YAH!

We have any number of video messages, letters, and threats of all natures of violence against us, until we get out of their holyland, for ONE.

'I' am NOT the one projecting anything. That's the other side.

'I' am saying that we are IGNORING the actual reasons for the attacks, and making up our own, at our own peril.

...or were you no talking to me, persay.

;)

gnome

24th June 2003, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Mike B.
They left a paper trail of why they did what they did.
It was quite explicit.
They did not like the fact that INFIDEL soldiers were guarding the holy sites of Islam where the "Prophet received his revelations."
When they took the planes they shouted, "ALLAH AKBAR!!!" Since this is supposed to make the kafir tremble. Their letters are constantly refering to GOD and the eternal bliss they believed was theirs for doing this.

Even this is more plain and believable than some of the "reasons" we have been offered by our leaders.

Dancing David

24th June 2003, 09:50 AM

You are WRONG in every sense of the word in ignoring the complaints of those who would use force to change your ways. In fact, your continued ignorance invites more harsh attacks upon greater numbers until you ARE willing to understand that YOUR wrongful actions have consequences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey dingbat, you are a doufus and if you continue to act this way I won't post here anymore.

Where do you get off with this crap, you don't know squat about me or my beliefs. So just shut up with your little pathetic EXCUSE MAKING.

I do belive that our foriegn policy is part of the rationalization for why the kooks did what they did. It still doesn't excuse it.

If you even took the opportunity to knwo me and my view you would know what a fool you are.

YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR!

I hold Israel accounatble for the evil it does and I don't excuse thier evil either. Israel is full of kooks too!

So KoA get off you little horse and grow up.

I don't excuse violence against civilians and I don't believe in terror.

I will check this thread later, if you behave reasonably and stop being a dofus I will continue our conversation.

You are the kind of jerk that makes the evil people do much easier, so next time you see someone beating thier child why don't you go help?

Icondem evil, it is evil, thier is no excuse for evil. Terrorism is being a bully witha gun.

King of the Americas

25th June 2003, 09:41 AM

Were the Native Americans who fought tooth and nail against westward expansionism, evil?

The attacked and even slaughtered men, women, and children, civilian and military. The took scalps and other brutal things in their warings.

In our extermination of this native race, we chracterized them as mindless savages, and said that there was no need to understand them, and that 'evil' just had to be wiped off the planet.

Something begets evil.

If you think scalping a woman while she is still alive is 'evil', that's fine. But I feel you do yourself a dis-service in sayig that those who would protect their homeland are 'kooks'.

Dancing David

25th June 2003, 10:03 AM

KoA thats a little better , but you make all these broad generalizations, and you make wrong assumptions about my personal beliefs.

The 9-11 kooks were not defending thier homeland! Were they being evicted from the WTC?

If they were Saudis then why were they defending thier homeland by attacking a building in NYC.

The native americans were fighting a defensive action against the white setllers, and if you knew anything about me (WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T!) the you would know that I consider this to be a great tragedy. I am for taking the monument at Battleground, IN and tearing it down and making a memorial to Prophet's Town as opposed to the one that glorifies harrison's slaughter of the innocents.

We are not talking about the shameful behavior of my ancestors.

The 9-11 bombers are kooks, they killed innocent civilains and you can't say that anything made them do it. They made that choice, no one made them make that choice.

There are many other choices that they could have made. Your argument is the same one that batterers use against thier wifes. If our government commits evil it is evil and we should be accountable.

When the 9-11 bombers commit evil it is evil and they should be held accountable.

Your logic is the same logic that GWB uses , did you know that? Your rant on listening to violence is the same as GWB's there is no excuse for violence, except in the defense of life.

The 9-11 bombers are kooks, I curse them into the darkness. If they had used thier powers to help children instead of killing people then they would be good instead of evil.

You are arguing with someone who agrees that America's foriegn policy is foolish, short sighted and often evil. GWB's evil is not excused by the 9-11 attacks, the 9-11 attackers are not excused by the evil that others commit.

So keep it up, you support every evil you decry when you say that we had better listen to the bombers or else. Isn't that the same rhetoric that GWB uses.

Wise up KoA, I agree with you, I disagree with the bombers who just kill civilians because they aren't brave enough to try something else.

Dancing David

25th June 2003, 10:06 AM

those who say they are 'protecting' you from the terrorists.
____________________________
You haven't read my posts on liberty , have you I am scared by what GWB is doing, I don't support him. You can't protect liberty by taking it away.

Dancing David

25th June 2003, 10:12 AM

That is how many places we are, in force via our military. And guess what, they aren't all 'Democratic Republics', where the people get to vote for who they want as their leader.

Please...open your eyes to the world. Please, look beyond the myopicy of Fox News, talk radio, and the current administration. Our future is in the hands of your understanding the true nature of the American Empire.
__________________________________________

You haven't read my posts so how would you know how I feel , you are ignorant and arrogant.

You defend violence, you use the same arguments as GWB, stop acting like I am some parochial ignoramus, I am not.

You support the same things that you decry, what sense does that make?

You know nothing about me or my politic, so where do get off condeming me, you are still a doofus.

If you knew me you would know that I loudly condem our foriegn policy but you just have some tape that you play over and over.

If the 9-11 bombers had done anything other than kill people they could have acted to change the world.

Okay they aren't kooks,
they are STUPID!

They could have made a point that got people to agree with them , but they were more interested in keeping the war going. they didn't give a crap about peace they just wanted war,
Stupid, stupid,stupid.

Mike B.

25th June 2003, 12:30 PM

I say Kooks...

Remember they thought they would be getting wild sex with all kinds of virgins immediately after becoming "martyers."

Muhmmad Atta's last letter said, "Today is a great day, we will be with the celestial virgins." And he kept telling his fellow hijackers, according to the letters found, not to be afraid for they will instantly be given bliss like "none known to earth."

Ziggurat

25th June 2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Dancing David

There are many braver things they could have dome as well, there is more bravery in peaceful protest than there is in a sucker punch.

It was an attack designed to get a response, had they chosen other means they would have mt admiration. Instead I curse them into the void, they are kooks, and they have ruined whatever goal they may have had by acting like kooks.
KOOKS, KOOKS, KOOKS.

I read the following some time after the Cole bombing in 2000, and it scared the sh*t out of me:

http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/10/30/1.html

When 9/11 happened, this article was the first thing I thought of, because it was prophetic. The last paragraph, in particular, is rather apt in the current debate:

"If you're looking for the clear act of cowardice around the bombing of the Cole, then, look to the effort to describe it to the countrymen of the murdered sailors. To suggest that an organized attack, brought off skillfully by members of what must be an extraordinarily cohesive organization, represents nothing more than some simpering spasm of pathetic hatred is to carefully miss the very large, very unpleasant point: People who destroy human life in this precise manner are not alone, and not disorganized, and very much not finished."

Dancing David

25th June 2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Ziggurat

People who destroy human life in this precise manner are not alone, and not disorganized, and very much not finished."

That is very true, I am not sure the War on Terrorism will do anything to effectively stop it either.

I am not arguing about the importance of terrorism, I am just for saying that if you commit evil then it is your evil, you can't say ,"I commit evil in NYC because Israel commit evil in Israel".

They are seperate acts of evil.

And I seriously thought they were going to blow a nuclear in Mocva because of the whole Chechnya situation.

Stupid dangerous kooks, how could saudis be defending something that wasn't in Saudi ?

Mike B.

25th June 2003, 01:53 PM

Another question I think KOA has to answer would be this:

Morocco was brutally attacked a few weeks ago by Al Queda. Would KOA point to some sin of Morocco's that led this to happen?
How does KOA's theory account for this.

Again I think KOA, among others, are simply seeing the "face at the bottom of the well" as it were.

As far as comparing to Native Americans...
Does KOA think that the belief that only Muslims should be allowed in Suadi Arabia and the desire to create a theocratic fundamentalist Islamic State is the same as "defending your home."?

King of the Americas

26th June 2003, 08:30 AM

...they attacked symbols of their oppressin and invasion, and in doing so innocent civilians got killed.

The link above says is all much better than I have.

We are mischaracterizing our enemy, his motives, his deeds, and his ability to cause further damage to us.

I think Dancing Dave is upset a the 'tactics' used by these people, and thus the 'kooks' stuff.

Maybe people should 'make war' on others by holding their hand in front of their face saying, "I'm not touching you! I not touching you!"

However, my sister and I constantly showed that our nature, no matter how 'sanitary' the Rules of War are, will always result in common and uncommon violcence, until the less motivated gives way to the greater.

---

Do you think of the United States of America as an Empire?

Dancing David

26th June 2003, 02:38 PM

Yes thier tactics do bother me, how do you defend yourself by killing innocent people, why would the japanese corporations based at the WTC be suffering?

I understand what you are saying, yes america is blind to why someone would do that.

But this is the same tactic being used by GWB,"listen to me or I will sock you" is no way to conduct a foriegn policy.

I am saying that there are other ways to get the world attention, my brother was involved in protests to generate more awareness about HIV?AIDS, he could have blown up the conference of doctors who were denying AIDS, instead he went and chained himself to the door. And he got on the national news for his trouble.

I can not approve of all the political violence around the world, I can't approve of the violence perpetrated by my government, and I can't approve and actively condem 'terrorism'.

I don't approve of torture, illegal detention, I donn't abrove of miltary power being used to control civilian populations.

If I approve of the tactics of the 9-11 bombers then I end supporting Pinochet, Hitler, Amin, Stalin and any other thug who uses violence to promote a political agenda.

Peace is harder than war and needs much more bravery. Try reading Thich Naht Hahn.

Peace

Dancing David

26th June 2003, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
[B
The link above says is all much better than I have.

We are mischaracterizing our enemy, his motives, his deeds, and his ability to cause further damage to us.

---

Do you think of the United States of America as an Empire? [/B]

If you have to rely on the link then maybe you don't know what you really think.

Are we mischaracteriseing the bombers, about as much as they mischarachterise the US. (Do I as an individual support the stupidity of my government, no, should I die because some kook wants to make headline, no.)

Is the US an empire, hmm, no , Nestle/Beich is an empire, we are just the spoiled baby with the biggest baddest guns sitting on the nicest turf, eating the nicest food and bossing every body around, then cry 'waahh those bad french men' because they have the gall to tell us , 'I don't want to play your game'.

I think the whole 'freedom fries' pretty much sums up the depth of American political acumen.

King of the Americas

29th June 2003, 10:13 AM

What is an 'empire'? And how does a modern country go about acting empiralistic?

American

29th June 2003, 11:55 AM

King of the Americas

30th June 2003, 06:20 AM

...we live in the Matrix.

The Truth is unknown to the Masses, and there are a few of us fighting the tide of misinformation with buckets researched facts.

To find out hwat is going on in the world around you, you have to 'look beyond the Matrix'.

*Andy Hogue's Term* "Looking beyond the Matrix"

Our leaders are lying to us, and us not calling them on it only encourages them to do it more often, more boldly.

If we are okay with our leaders taking actions, military at that, based on unclear, misconstrued, or over-exagerated intelligence, then we are giving them free reign to do what they would, and NOT what we would have them do.

We are NOT a country of, by, and for 'government officials and their agenda'. We are a country of, by, and for 'the People'.

It is NOT good for us, to be mislead by leaders to misuse our military power to directly benefit them and their financial supporters.

MY POINT...?

...?

That if YOU aren't enraged by this, to the point of wanting to do something to change this, and or tell others who don't know about it, so that this kind of thing STOPS...then I say you are a coward.

I tell you these things, so that you CAN act to change it, before we are consumed entirely by this sea of lies, decet, and corruption.

Mike B.

30th June 2003, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
What is an 'empire'? And how does a modern country go about acting empiralistic?

You know King...someone who always says that they should be king because of their great knowledge of how the world works should maybe not make such an idiotic error as spelling that last word of yours with an e...:rolleyes:

I mean what are the peasents to think?

Mike B.

30th June 2003, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by King of the Americas
...we live in the Matrix.

The Truth is unknown to the Masses, and there are a few of us fighting the tide of misinformation with buckets researched facts.

To find out hwat is going on in the world around you, you have to 'look beyond the Matrix'.

*Andy Hogue's Term* "Looking beyond the Matrix"

Our leaders are lying to us, and us not calling them on it only encourages them to do it more often, more boldly.

If we are okay with our leaders taking actions, military at that, based on unclear, misconstrued, or over-exagerated intelligence, then we are giving them free reign to do what they would, and NOT what we would have them do.

We are NOT a country of, by, and for 'government officials and their agenda'. We are a country of, by, and for 'the People'.

It is NOT good for us, to be mislead by leaders to misuse our military power to directly benefit them and their financial supporters.

MY POINT...?

...?

That if YOU aren't enraged by this, to the point of wanting to do something to change this, and or tell others who don't know about it, so that this kind of thing STOPS...then I say you are a coward.

I tell you these things, so that you CAN act to change it, before we are consumed entirely by this sea of lies, decet, and corruption.

OH MY GOD!!!

KOA,
Stop watching so many movies...
You have yet to say anything coherent or that shows signs of "buckets researched facts." :D

There are posters like Shane Costello or Skeptic that are infintely more original and actually do use "facts" and not Hollywood fantasies.