How honest are you?

[American]

As in, are you the same person at work, home, school, play, etc.?

There's this thing called compartmentalization. I call it "2-face". It's what we use to rationalize lies and awkward truths.

I behave the same (generally) everywhere. I don't act up at work, because I can't. If, however, a co-worker directly asks an "inappropriate" question, I'm not the type to get offended or be aghast.

When I talk to you one-on-one, you are talking to a real person. Detecting a phony, isn't it fun to pry in to them and see what's underneith?

Who else wants the Whole Person to return? No more using "none of your business" as an excuse to be a different man than you present. "Private life" is just a means toward hypocrisy.


Ladies should be listening... men too I guess.


Those are my fastest thoughts on the matter. You can probably poke holes in my argument... feel free.

[evildave]

I don't know.

It's a matter of what social situation you're in.

If you are truly the same person in all situations, then you would certainly not feel in the least bit awkward behaving to your coworkers as you would to your lover. Perhaps behaving to children as you would your lover as well? While other people are watching?

No?

For some reason, I think I'll go ahead and assume you have the normal ration of 'hypocrisy' that people have in order to alter their behavior according to the social situation, and assume proper roles when called to. You'd certainly have been institutionalized by now if you couldn't.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by American
Ladies should be listening... men too I guess.
I don't understand this line. What does gender have to do with anything? Further, why is it more important that ladies should be listening more than men?

edited to add:

BTW, I'm also of the "different people for different situations" camp. Fiancee Upchurch is different from Having The Neighbors Over Upchurch (although not by much) is different from Profesional Upchurch is different from Professor Upchurch is different from Band Member Upchurch.

I could be my own line of Barbie Dolls. :D

[Akots]

So they can better understand how us scheming, lying men think? :D

I find it easier to open up and talk online; the shield of anonymity is quite potent. But it's more out of real world lethargy than anything. Talking online is easier, and obviously safer. Not only in the sense of not getting punched; but any harsh criticism or insults lose at least some of their edge when the other person isn't face to face with you.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Akots
Talking online is easier, and obviously safer.
Not to mention that it is easier to pick and choose your words before anyone "hears" them, unlike irl.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by American
............

I behave the same (generally) everywhere. I don't act up at work, because I can't. If, however, a co-worker directly asks an "inappropriate" question, I'm not the type to get offended or be aghast.

.............................



Act up? How old are you.. ( I realize that's personal, but it seems to be relevant here... )

What is an example of an " inappropriate question " for you ?

There are personal relationships and casual ones..

All of my relationships at work are casual, I am not interested in anyone's personal life..

Any questions about my personal life among my peers are inappropriate, and I politely refuse to discuss such things..

[Samus]

I don't understand how this all relates to honesty, and American, I don't think you understand either.

I am generally honest with people. I'm a pretty bad liar, actually. However, there are people I am more comfortable around, therefore might behave a bit differently around.

I don't know how that would make me two-faced. Two-faced means I say one thing to you, then say or do something completely different behind your back.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Act up? How old are you.. While I share the opinion that American probably isn't old enough to drink (there's a metaphore for ya), but using the term "act up" in reference to an adult could be part of a regional dialect.

Not to get off topic, but I'm mostly from the American mid-west. As a part of my job, I've visited several factories in the American southeast. Instead of pressing the button, they "mash" the button. Instead of turning the switch on, they "cut" the switch on. This could be something similar.
All of my relationships at work are casual, I am not interested in anyone's personal life..I concur. Just isn't professional when co-workers talk about how much their kids threw up last night

[Akots]

Saying two things to two different people can be two-faced. If I tell you all that I'm atheist, but omit to tell my family as such to avoid a fight, that's pretty deceitful.

I'm very open about my beliefs, and my personal opinions on theism/atheism on htis board. But in RL? I'd make an inarticulate fool of myself trying to explain myself, to people who don't really care all that much. :)

There's people you know well, and then theres people you only see as friends, co-workers, etc. Anonymity makes it easier to treat those two groups the same, unconciously. For some at least.

I concur. Just isn't professional when co-workers talk about how much their kids threw up last night

If they're single, they could tell you about how much they threw up themselves. :p

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Akots
Saying two things to two different people can be two-faced. If I tell you all that I'm atheist, but omit to tell my family as such to avoid a fight, that's pretty deceitful. But nothing is black and white. There is also the issue of little white lies to spare someone's feelings.

To answer the overall question, I am as honest as necessary. The only person I try to be totally honest with is myself.

[arcticpenguin]

Some of you seem to be questioning American's age and seriousness. This thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=21691) should clear up all those doubts.

[American]

Originally posted by dwb
I don't know how that would make me two-faced. Two-faced means I say one thing to you, then say or do something completely different behind your back.

I consider omitting facts to be outright lying.

Why don't I treat a 10-year-old like a 30 year old? Or a boss like a relative, or a stranger like a friend? I sort of do, at least in terms of honesty. Anything else is lying.

Now I don't volunteer information that I think will hurt someone or be offensive and rude (actually, I sometimes do, but not often), but I don't choose to hide those facts, and if they ASK me about it, they're going to get the truth.

I don't think I've ever said "none of your business" in my entire life, and I seriously disrespect anyone who does ever say that (that's basically everyone).

If you have to use that phrase, then I automatically assume you've got something to hide or be ashamed of, and you really need to reconsider your values, decisions, and how you live your life. I really do take it as a sign of either weakness or moral flaws in your character that I can't get a frank and honest answer.


Someone touched on the idea of whether it's about being a hypocrite... Like I says, I don't mind if you test me a little. I probably do gots some flaws I don't know about!

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by American




I don't think I've ever said "none of your business" in my entire life, and I seriously disrespect anyone who does ever say that (that's basically everyone).

If you have to use that phrase, then I automatically assume you've got something to hide or be ashamed of, and you really need to reconsider your values, decisions, and how you live your life. I really do take it as a sign of either weakness or moral flaws in your character that I can't get a frank and honest answer.




I don't use that phrase either.. It's more like " I'd rather not discuss my personal life with you ..."


If you think your every thought and action is everybody's business, good for you....

[Samus]

Originally posted by American
Why don't I treat a 10-year-old like a 30 year old? Or a boss like a relative, or a stranger like a friend? I sort of do, at least in terms of honesty. Anything else is lying. Social relationships my friend, social relationships. I don't treat my boss like a relative because he's not. There are topics we don't discuss, because in the work context, it's not appropriate. I wouldn't go to him if I had a wart on my butt and needed advice about it, and I don't know why you would consider that okay. FYI, I don't have a wart on my butt. :)

Being jovial and honest are okay, but exercising some discretion helps, too. I still fail to see how that makes me dishonest.

Originally posted by American
I don't think I've ever said "none of your business" in my entire life, and I seriously disrespect anyone who does ever say that (that's basically everyone).

If you have to use that phrase, then I automatically assume you've got something to hide or be ashamed of, and you really need to reconsider your values, decisions, and how you live your life. I really do take it as a sign of either weakness or moral flaws in your character that I can't get a frank and honest answer. If you asked me what my annual salary is, I would tell you its none of your business. Not because I'm a liar, or a hypocrite, or I have something to hide, but rather, because it's none of your business. You don't need to know, and I don't want to tell you.

[American]

Originally posted by dwb
If you asked me what my annual salary is, I would tell you its none of your business. Not because I'm a liar, or a hypocrite, or I have something to hide, but rather, because it's none of your business. You don't need to know, and I don't want to tell you. [/B]

I suspect it's mostly the later, more than any other reason. "I don't want to tell you." I've said that quite a bit. All the other reasons you list are mostly BS that people throw around to protect themselves defensively.

Example: Bill Clinton should have got on national tv and said, "yeah I banged Monica. It was good." Not, "It's nobody's business *pout*...."

If he has a problem with that, then maybe he shouldn't be banging interns.

That's just one example, I don't want to make this political by picking on him specifically.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Diogenes

I don't use that phrase either.. It's more like " I'd rather not discuss my personal life with you ..."

If you think your every thought and action is everybody's business, good for you....
I would say "Why do you ask?" It gets across the point that the other person is being nosy.

[Samus]

Actually, he went on TV and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

He lied. Blatently.

Just a little correction :)

[ChuckieR]

Some questions to which American might just answer "none of your business" (or equivalent):

- Where are your spare house keys and where do you keep that stash of cash?

- What are some of your credit card and bank card numbers.

- ...and your address, SSN, PINs, passwords, mother's maiden name, etc. I'm askin' ya, so post them all here please (and don't give me that "none of your business" crap).

These are a little contrived, I admit, but it should illustrate that this is not a "black and white" issue. You shouldn't go around giving any information about yourself to just anyone. Not everyone has your best interests in mind.

The better you know someone, the more you trust them and know their behavior, the more you might be willing to share personal details.

I wouldn't tell a total stranger everything about myself. It's not hypocrisy, it just seems like common sense.

[roger]

I find it interesting that American's profile does not give a name, address, etc.

American,

* how old are you?
* what's your full, legal name?
* what sex are you?
* what's the full legal name of the last person you've had sex with?
* what is your mailing address?
* what is your email address?
* when is your birthday?
* what is your home telephone number?
* how many people have you have sex with? give their full names.
* how many people in your life have you fantisized about having sex with? give us their names. and their home telephone numbers or current email address.
* what is your total net worth
* what is your salary
* list all crimes you have ever commited

[American]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
Some of you seem to be questioning American's age and seriousness. This thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=21691) should clear up all those doubts.

That is related. I have a theory that girls don't want an honesty guy, they want a born liar who can keep their slutty secrets and never tell. I just can't do that, and they know it too. Right off the bat they do!

[American]

Originally posted by dwb
Actually, he went on TV and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

He lied. Blatently.

Just a little correction :)

Maybe I'm being too deep but....

I think his real lie wasn't saying that. The real lie was when he went on tv and said that it was wrong. I don't think he really thought it was wrong, or if he did then it's not "very wrong" to him, or he's a very very weak man.

I don't understand how people do wrong, even as they're doing it and know that it's wrong. I think they just say that it's wrong, but deep down they feel that it's not.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by American
I have a theory that girls don't want an honesty guy, they want a born liar who can keep their slutty secrets and never tell. Let me guess, you came up with this theory late one Friday night while watching Cinemax?

[American]

Originally posted by roger
I find it interesting that American's profile does not give a name, address, etc.

American,

* how old are you?
* what's your full, legal name?
* what sex are you?
* what's the full legal name of the last person you've had sex with?
* what is your mailing address?
* what is your email address?
* when is your birthday?
* what is your home telephone number?
* how many people have you have sex with? give their full names.
* how many people in your life have you fantisized about having sex with? give us their names. and their home telephone numbers or current email address.
* what is your total net worth
* what is your salary
* list all crimes you have ever commited


Interesting. I guess I don't respect strangers afterall, or I don't trust them. The best answer to all of those questions (to you) is what arcticpenguin said, "Why do you ask?"

"None of your business" is a dodge. I like to at least confront the reason that we withhold personal information, rather than just say "that's personal".

My salary? I don't want to say, because I may be ashamed if it sounds low, or you might judge me as a snob if it's too high.... See? There are reasons.

Crimes? If I told you, it would make people wonder if they can trust me with their secrets. It would also affect my job and my reputation.

Age? I won't say exactly. Older people will dismiss it as a lie if they don't like me (folks are always calling me a teenager here), or I'll seem like an old geezer to younger folk whom I'd like not to judge me like that.

Sexual relations? Saying the number may be embarrasingly low, or high depending on your own morals.


Those are all better answers than "none of your business". Not as good as straight honesty, but you're a bunch of random people who I don't trust to answer any more clearly.

[roger]

Originally posted by American


Interesting. I guess I don't respect strangers afterall, or I don't trust them. The best answer to all of those questions (to you) is what arcticpenguin said, "Why do you ask?"

I asked because your second post in this thread implies strongly that you expect other people to answer any question you ask them, and ascribe moral weakness or dishonesty to them if they don't provide an answer.

I have no actual interest in the answer to any of the questions I asked.

[American]

Originally posted by roger


I asked because your second post in this thread implies strongly that you expect other people to answer any question you ask them, and ascribe moral weakness or dishonesty to them if they don't provide an answer.

I have no actual interest in the answer to any of the questions I asked.

I see. Anyway I didn't just imply it but made a point of it.

So after working through some of this, I'm concluding that it's important to look at the reasons we won't answer. "NoYB" is a catch-all excuse not to look at ourselves and re-consider what we do. We should answer all questions proudly, or else work to modify our behavior so that we can.

Maybe I have to face that everyone carries some fear and shame. Hm. I don't like that. Not one bit.

[Dancing David]

I try to be shallow as a major life goal, shallow and transparent. Then my life is very easy, and I can have Deep Thoughts (snicker)

like its a horrible thing for a family to be torn apart...by wolves.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by American


That is related. I have a theory that girls don't want an honesty guy, they want a born liar who can keep their slutty secrets and never tell. I just can't do that, and they know it too. Right off the bat they do!

I have always had a preference for being mostly honest and slutty girls, call a girl a slut, whore or hose beast and my ears just perk up. ( I like women who like sex, what a goofy pejorative)

[calladus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Instead of pressing the button, they "mash" the button. Instead of turning the switch on, they "cut" the switch on.

One of my friends once asked me to 'flip off that light.'

I honestly had never heard it put quite that way before. So I blinked, shrugged, then showed the light my middle finger.

(But NooOOw I get it!)

[calladus]

Originally posted by American


I consider omitting facts to be outright lying.

Now I don't volunteer information that I think will hurt someone or be offensive and rude (actually, I sometimes do, but not often), but I don't choose to hide those facts, and if they ASK me about it, they're going to get the truth.

I don't think I've ever said "none of your business" in my entire life, and I seriously disrespect anyone who does ever say that (that's basically everyone).

If you have to use that phrase, then I automatically assume you've got something to hide or be ashamed of, and you really need to reconsider your values, decisions, and how you live your life. I really do take it as a sign of either weakness or moral flaws in your character that I can't get a frank and honest answer.


It's perfectly reasonable to tell someone, "That's personal, and I would prefer not to talk about it." If they keep poking, and you are serious, tell 'em in no uncertain terms that you will not speak on that subject.

Why? Because different people have different systems of values. And some of these people can be pretty idiotic about the values that they believe are the best.

Someone knocks on my door selling religion, it's just easier to say, "no thanks" and go back to what I was doing than it is to stand on the stoop and debate the merits of Atheism.

[calladus]

Originally posted by American


Interesting. I guess I don't respect strangers afterall, or I don't trust them. The best answer to all of those questions (to you) is what arcticpenguin said, "Why do you ask?"

"None of your business" is a dodge. I like to at least confront the reason that we withhold personal information, rather than just say "that's personal".

My salary? I don't want to say, because I may be ashamed if it sounds low, or you might judge me as a snob if it's too high.... See? There are reasons.

Crimes? If I told you, it would make people wonder if they can trust me with their secrets. It would also affect my job and my reputation.

Age? I won't say exactly. Older people will dismiss it as a lie if they don't like me (folks are always calling me a teenager here), or I'll seem like an old geezer to younger folk whom I'd like not to judge me like that.

Sexual relations? Saying the number may be embarrasingly low, or high depending on your own morals.


Those are all better answers than "none of your business". Not as good as straight honesty, but you're a bunch of random people who I don't trust to answer any more clearly.

Sounds to me as if you found a lot of new ways to say, "None of your business."

[Ladewig]

Example: Bill Clinton should have got on national tv and said, "yeah I banged Monica. It was good." Not, "It's nobody's business *pout*...."

If he has a problem with that, then maybe he shouldn't be banging interns.



Actually, I would have respected him more if he had said, "it's none of your business because it does not relate to your original charge."

On the other hand, I do not respect GWB's none-of-your-business response when he was asked about cocaine use. He stated that he could pass a security check (no drug use in the past seven years) but refused to deny any illegal drug use. It is the business of the American people to know if the man when appoints the Drug Czar was a coke-head.

Sexual relations? Saying the number may be embarrasingly low, or high depending on your own morals.

The problem with this type of response is that the questioners often believe that if they can show that their morals are not too far from your own, then there is no reason not to share the information.

[Roadtoad]

It seems we have some confusion with honesty and exhibitionism.

Some things really aren't anyone else's business. How much I earn, how I spend my spare time, what credit cards I have, things like that, really have no bearing on what really matters about a person.

There's also our "Public" face, and our "Private" face matter. I don't expect you to be my best bud in public. I do expect you to be civil. Outside of the public eye, it's likely another matter.

On the other hand, there is consistency in other areas of my life. Mess with my wife or kids, and I don't care what the situation is, I will kill you.

[Boo]

This thread got me to thinking about my relationships with the people in my life that I work and relax with.

My husband and I both have areas that are off limits to discussion. A simple matter of privacy. My poker buddies know more about me than my mother and sisters.

I consider my co-workers intimate acquaintances. I have to live with them 3 days a week. There is a certain level of personal intimacy that goes with that. However, as for my life away from work they know very little. Many have known me for over a year before finding out that I had twins, most still don't know that they have special needs. It just doesn't come up in conversation.

I have been told by co-workers that I am hard to get to know. There are parts of my life that I consider to be private and not open to the public. I guard those areas jealously. I will answer a direct question if asked and it is relevant to a situation. Otherwise I can't see how knowing intimate personal knowledge of someone would serve a purpose.


Don't ask, don't tell. ;)




Boo

[the_ignored]

Everything I say is a lie; including this.

[Frostbite]

I always lie.

[c4ts]

What does this thread have to do with religion or philosophy?

[Supercharts]

I am 147 faced.
Is this a record or something? Do I get a monetary prize?

[Julia]

Originally posted by c4ts
What does this thread have to do with religion or philosophy?

Once again (yawn) American gets to share with us his philosophy that all women are "sluts", "liars", "whores", etc.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Julia


Once again (yawn) American gets to share with us his philosophy that all women are "sluts", "liars", "whores", etc.

And my ignore list is growing.