Blown to Kingdom Come

[TruthSeeker1234]

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image129.jpg
http://www.acebaker.com/KingdomCome/BlownToKingdomCome.html

[Bell]

Oh crap, what's your point, BS101?

[Skibum]

Since Killtowns not here to answer,

TS whats your opinion,

was there only one dalek or were there more?

Also heres a great timekiller

http://www.dedge.com/flash/hangman/hangman.swf

[TruthSeeker1234]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

[Pardalis]

When was this picture taken TS? It looks like the clean up process is well underway.

[Garb]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

And you got alll of that from a pile of rubble?


I am not impressed.

[gumboot]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.


The resolution on that photograph is too low to determine details in the debris. Much closer photographs clearly show sections of exterior columns, floor trusses, and core columns.

-Gumboot

[qarnos]

Since Killtowns not here to answer,

TS whats your opinion,

was there only one dalek or were there more?

A wizard did it.

[Bell]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

What should it look like, IF the WTC towers WERE blown up?

[LashL]

TS1234's point is always the same - her only "point" is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (and no pre-planted explosives were required) on her prior threads.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

A crater is a concave depression caused by a high velocity impact or shockwave. No crater is visible in the photograph provided.

It is as though you have shown us a picture of a decapitated corpse and claimed the victim was killed by atheletes foot.

You either completely and utterly lacking in the knowledge and experience to discuss this topic or you are flat out lying.

[TruthSeeker1234]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly. The floors were disintegrated. Have you guys done the hi res hunt? It's great.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/gzaerial3.html

[W6102LA]

what sort of explosives did this.

Must of been one of these.....

The thermonuclear bomb used was a mini 'pure' hydrogen bomb. The basic nuclear reaction is Deuterium + Tritium > Alpha + n. The ignition of this is either with a powerful beam array or antimatter. Water spraying is a good way to speed up the evaporation of these light elements. And that's what they used. Elevated tritium values were found in three places at the WTC area. theres evidence they have used micro nukes in terror attacks around the world, unless you think a car bomb leaves 3 metre deep craters. The demolition of those ultra strong steel pillars in the central core using cutting charges only is not possible without waking up unwanted attention. These charges must be in touch of the steel pillars, and there is not enough enclosed space in the central core to hide these biggest possible charges

:eek: :eek: :D

[Pardalis]

Truthseeker, WHEN WAS THIS PICTURE TAKEN?

[Gravy]

Back so soon, Killtown?

[Garb]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly. The floors were disintegrated. Have you guys done the hi res hunt? It's great.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/gzaerial3.html

And this proves what exactly?

[Bell]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly. The floors were disintegrated. Have you guys done the hi res hunt? It's great.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/gzaerial3.html

You mean the picture taken on September 23?

[Garb]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly. The floors were disintegrated. .

Seems like the floors were crushed by an incredible amount of weight.

[TruthSeeker1234]

And you got alll of that from a pile of rubble?



WHat pile? I sure don't see two piles where two 110 story buildings fell down. What pile?

Hit that hi res link

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/gzaerial3.html

[DavidJames]

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image129.jpg
http://www.acebaker.com/KingdomCome/BlownToKingdomCome.html

troll

[Bell]

What should it look like, IF the WTC towers WERE blown up?

Well, TruthSeeker1234?

[TruthSeeker1234]

Seems like the floors were crushed by an incredible amount of weight.

Where are the floors that did the crushing?

[LashL]

troll

Yep.

And I'll repeat:

The troll's "point" is always the same - her only "point" is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (and no pre-planted explosives were required) on her prior threads.

ETA: And I should have added this: and she'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward defensible answer, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide actual evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try understand the facts and evidence. She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I've looked at the ultra-mega-hi-res version of the photo hosted at the NOAA site. There is no evidence of any "crater" whatsoever.

Swing and a miss, TS$1.98.

[Garb]

WHat pile? I sure don't see two piles where two 110 story buildings fell down. What pile?

Hit that hi res link

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/gzaerial3.html

What do you mean "what pile"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crater

Does that description fit your link?

[Garb]

Where are the floors that did the crushing?

They fell 110 stories. You expect them to be intact?

[qarnos]

Back so soon, Killtown?

I had the same thought... he/she was very quiet when Killclown was around.

** cue twilight zone music **

[TruthSeeker1234]

What should it look like, IF the WTC towers WERE blown up?

It would look just like it looked. The rapid collapse, the disintegration, the mushroom cloud, everything. Every part of both events looked like a powerful volcanic eruption from beginning to end.

Anyone who thinks anything "fell down" is just not talking about the same event.

[Garb]

It would look just like it looked. The rapid collapse, the disintegration, the mushroom cloud, everything. Every part of both events looked like a powerful volcanic eruption from beginning to end.

Anyone who thinks anything "fell down" is just not talking about the same event.

One crucial part is missing:

Where were the explosions?

[TruthSeeker1234]

They fell 110 feet. You expect them to be intact?

You mean stories, but the building disintegrated in mid air, not when it hit the ground. ANd no, falling from 110 stories will not disintegrate structural steel and and concrete. We observe structural steel evaporating before our very eyes.

Study the evidence people.

[Bell]

It would look just like it looked. The rapid collapse, the disintegration, the mushroom cloud, everything. Every part of both events looked like a powerful volcanic eruption from beginning to end.

Riiight. So a volcano destroyed the Trade Center Towers?

Anyone who thinks anything "fell down" is just not talking about the same event.

Sooo, the towers fell up?

:dl:

[LashL]

TS1234's "point" is always the same - her only "point" is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (and no pre-planted explosives were required) on her prior threads.

She'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward defensible answer, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide actual evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try to understand the facts and evidence.

She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

Hey, if TS1234 can keep repeating herself on every thread that she posts on and every thread that she starts, well, I guess it's okay for me to keep repeating this.

At least my post has the benefit of being factual.

[Garb]

You mean stories, but the building disintegrated in mid air, not when it hit the ground. ANd no, falling from 110 stories will not disintegrate structural steel and and concrete. We observe structural steel evaporating before our very eyes.

Study the evidence people.

So the steel columns that were found at gorund zero were actually disintegrated? Wow, I've been blind all along!


Wasn't the building made up of many other things besides steel and concrete?

[Gravy]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly.By gosh, he's right! Now that I think about it, I find it extremely suspicious that I haven't seen ANY of these things in the rubble:

A Deer Park water cooler with the water bottle sitting on top, plugged in.

A complete table setting from Windows on the World.

A working computer network of any kind.

A single desk organizer with the pens not spilled all over the place.

A curtain rod–curtain–holdback–drywall screws–paint–drywall–window frame–window–fireproofing–column–spandrel–flange–c ladding–truss–pan–concrete–wall–story–World Trade Center tower assembly.

[Oliver]

One crucial part is missing:

Where were the explosions?

Ask Chris. :boggled:

[Oliver]

Oh look! All the debris turned into dust! :eek:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107453afd10a1d70.jpg

[TruthSeeker1234]

So the steel columns that were found at gorund zero were actually disintegrated? Wow, I've been blind all along!


Wasn't the building made up of many other things besides sttel and concrete anyhow?

Our best estimate is that about 20% of the structural steel remained macroscopic. About 1% (at most) of the concrete remained macroscopic.

Yes, besides structural steel and concrete, the towers contained machinery, carpet, furniture, computers, wiring, plumbing, and human beings. Almost 100% of this material was disintegrated into a fine powder.

Oddly, sheets of paper seemed to have survived very well. Also odd is the burned out cars, where steel is burned yet plastic isn't. And cars that look so melted as do defy description, yet were not hit by rubble.

[Garb]

Oh look! All the debris turned into dust! :eek:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107453afd10a1d70.jpg

Man, not a single steel column to be seen.

[uruk]

No core? What's this then?

The concrete thing has to do with another thread.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

By gosh, he's right! Now that I think about it, I find it extremely suspicious that I haven't seen ANY of these things in the rubble:

A Deer Park water cooler with the water bottle sitting on top, plugged in.

A complete table setting from Windows on the World.

A working computer network of any kind.

A single desk organizer with the pens not spilled all over the place.

A curtain rod–curtain–holdback–drywall screws–paint–drywall–window frame–window–fireproofing–column–spandrel–flange–c ladding–truss–pan–concrete–wall–story–World Trade Center tower assembly.

But you found Waldo™?

[Bell]

By gosh, he's right! Now that I think about it, I find it extremely suspicious that I haven't seen ANY of these things in the rubble:

A Deer Park water cooler with the water bottle sitting on top, plugged in.

A complete table setting from Windows on the World.

A working computer network of any kind.

A single desk organizer with the pens not spilled all over the place.

A curtain rod–curtain–holdback–drywall screws–paint–drywall–window frame–window–fireproofing–column–spandrel–flange–c ladding–truss–pan–concrete–wall–story–World Trade Center tower assembly.

Nominated.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Oh look! All the debris turned into dust! :eek:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107453afd10a1d70.jpg

We see that all of the structural steel is blown apart, and only about 20% of it remains. We have many pictures and videos of steel disintegrating and turning to dust.

Pile of rubble?? What pile?

[Garb]

Our best estimate is that about 20% of the structural steel remained macroscopic. About 1% (at most) of the concrete remained macroscopic.

Yes, besides structural steel and concrete, the towers contained machinery, carpet, furniture, computers, wiring, plumbing, and human beings. Almost 100% of this material was disintegrated into a fine powder.

Oddly, sheets of paper seemed to have survived very well. Also odd is the burned out cars, where steel is burned yet plastic isn't. And cars that look so melted as do defy description, yet were not hit by rubble.

Who's best estimate is that?

It was disintegrated because of the incredibly amount of weight that crushed it. That isn't surprising at all.

So you are saying the sheets of paper couldn't get through blown out glass or large holes made by planes when the tower collapsed. And since cars supposedly melted by themselves is also a government conspiracy?

[Garb]

We see that all of the structural steel is blown apart, and only about 20% of it remains. We have many pictures and videos of steel disintegrating and turning to dust.

Pile of rubble?? What pile?

Do you even know what rubble is?

[Gravy]

Our best estimate
You and the six-foot bunny?

[Bell]

Our best estimate is that about 20% of the structural steel remained macroscopic. About 1% (at most) of the concrete remained macroscopic.

Yes, besides structural steel and concrete, the towers contained machinery, carpet, furniture, computers, wiring, plumbing, and human beings. Almost 100% of this material was disintegrated into a fine powder.

Oddly, sheets of paper seemed to have survived very well. Also odd is the burned out cars, where steel is burned yet plastic isn't. And cars that look so melted as do defy description, yet were not hit by rubble.

Yes, because when you drop heavy stuff ontop of paper, it powderizes into macroscopic powder :rolleyes:

[Gravy]

Do you even know what rubble is?I like your style, Garb.

[Oliver]

No core? What's this then?

The concrete thing has to do with another thread.

Don´t abduct "him" to this thread... :D

[LashL]

The troll's "point" is always the same - her only "point" is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (and no pre-planted explosives were required) on her prior threads.

She'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward answer - let alone a defensible one, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide any legitimate evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try to understand the facts and evidence.

She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

Hey, if the troll can keep repeating herself on every thread that she posts on and every thread that she starts, well, I guess it's okay for me to keep repeating this.

At least my post has the benefit of being factual, unlike anything the troll posts.

[Skibum]

Do you even know what rubble is?

Isn't that Fred and Wilmas neighbor?

[defaultdotxbe]

You and the six-foot bunny?
http://static.last.fm/coverart/300x300/2025122.jpg?

[Oliver]

We see that all of the structural steel is blown apart, and only about 20% of it remains. We have many pictures and videos of steel disintegrating and turning to dust.

Pile of rubble?? What pile?

Steel never ever had turned to dust on this planet.
Not even in any Comic i read so far. :boggled:

[Gravy]

http://static.last.fm/coverart/300x300/2025122.jpg?
!!!
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/James-Stewart-Photograph-C10103859.jpeg

[defaultdotxbe]

!!!

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/James-Stewart-Photograph-C10103859.jpeg

yeah, after i posted that i thought you might mean harvey, but hey, im a product of a different generation of movies

[Brainache]

How often has TS been shown all those pics of the six or seven storey high pile of rubble? The pics of all the stuff hauled to Fresh Kills? All the stuff being stored for the memorial?

What Is Wrong With Your Brain Truthseeker?

[defaultdotxbe]

yeah, after i posted that i thought you might mean harvey, but hey, im a product of a different generation of movies
now that i think about i think frank was 5'11"

.....although, donnies bedroom was crushed by a jet engine.....curiouser and curiouser....

[Oliver]

What Is Wrong With Your Brain Truthseeker?

Ask Chris.

[uruk]

We see that all of the structural steel is blown apart, and only about 20% of it remains. We have many pictures and videos of steel disintegrating and turning to dust.

Pile of rubble?? What pile?

Steel disintegrated?
The dust was Drywall, glass fiber, and concrete.:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/

20% of steel remains? I'm sorry but that's incorrect. Practicaly all of the steel was accounted for. None of it vaporized.
According to this Web site:
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/collapses/wasteage_cleanup.htm
Steel made up half of the 1.2 million tons of debris removed from the site.:

“I saw I-beams stacked six stories high,” he says. “Steel could make up as much as half of the site's estimated 1.2 million tons of wreckage. Plans on how to move the machinery around this site are complex.”

These site more or less confirm the estimates:
http://www.ussartf.org/world_trade_center_disaster.htm
"since the mass of the combined towers is 1000000, tons finding evidence will be an enormous task."

http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/US/NY/NewYorkWorldTradeCenterp2.html
"In all, 20,000 body parts were recovered. 1,800,000 tons of rubble was removed."

This site states that the towers had 200,000 of steel each so that 400,000 tones of steel total. which is supported by the statement above.:
http://www.september11news.com/WTCArt.htm
"More than 200,000 tons of steel was used in the World Trade Center's
construction. The 425,000 cubic yards of concrete used in building the World
Trade Center is enough to build a five-foot wide sidewalk from New York City
to Washington, D.C."

[uruk]

Don´t abduct "him" to this thread... :D

yea, I know. I got lazy.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Duran Duran was neither a Duran, nor a Duran.

Discuss.

[uruk]

Duran Duran was neither a Duran, nor a Duran.

Discuss.

He was twice the Duran we'll ever be!!!!

[Oroborus]

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on the Conspiracy Theories section. I knew it. *takes pipe cleaner to his brain*

Oh by the way.

" Has he lost his mind?, Can he see or is he blind
Can he walk at all? Or if he moves will he fall?
Is he live or dead? I see thoughts NO within his head.
We'll just pass him there. Why should we even care?"

-Black Sabbath (with the obvious exception of my bold insert)

[Gravy]

Nominated.Raise your standards, Bell!

[gumboot]

I haven't seen evidence of even a single floor assembly. The floors were disintegrated. Have you guys done the hi res hunt? It's great.


NIST recovered a number of floor truss assemblies for their investigation. Chapter 6 of NIST NCSTAR1-3 has photos of some of these balled-up truss assemblies.

-Gumboot

[LashL]

NIST recovered a number of floor truss assemblies for their investigation. Chapter 6 of NIST NCSTAR1-3 has photos of some of these balled-up truss assemblies.

-Gumboot

The trollish one knows that, as it's been pointed out to her before. Her only point here is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (with no pre-planted explosives required) on her prior threads.

She'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward answer - let alone a defensible one, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide any legitimate evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try to understand the facts and evidence.

She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

But, hey, if she can keep repeating herself on every thread that she posts on and every thread that she starts, well, I guess it's okay for me to keep repeating this.

At least my post has the benefit of being factual, unlike anything the troll posts.

[Oliver]

The trollish one knows that, as it's been pointed out to her before. Her only point here is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (with no pre-planted explosives required) on her prior threads.

She'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward answer - let alone a defensible one, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide any legitimate evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try to understand the facts and evidence.

She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

But, hey, if she can keep repeating herself on every thread that she posts on and every thread that she starts, well, I guess it's okay for me to keep repeating this.

At least my post has the benefit of being factual, unlike anything the troll posts.

Wait a minute ... her? ... she? Again i missed something, i guess... :boggled:

[LashL]

Wait a minute ... her? ... she? Again i missed something, i guess... :boggled:

Her gender means nothing, Oliver. It's entirely irrelevant to her BS theories, it's entirely irrelevant to her nonsensical "arguments" and it's entirely irrelevant to her inability to think logically or critically.

[Oliver]

Her gender means nothing, Oliver. It's entirely irrelevant to her BS theories, it's entirely irrelevant to her nonsensical "arguments" and it's entirely irrelevant to her inability to think logically or critically.

No no no - if BS is a women it explains a lot. I know some
women who talk a lot of stuff the whole day long but without
any meaning. :D

[LashL]

No no no - if BS is a women it explains a lot. I know some
women who talk a lot of stuff the whole day long but without
any meaning. :D

I disagree that her gender explains anything except that conspiracy theory BSers are quasi equal opportunity BSers. And I'm surprised that you think otherwise. Just as many men as women talk BS all day long without any meaning, probably more, in fact, if governmental agencies are any indication. Sheesh.

If it's governmental people we're talking about, then it's more probable that more men than women are talking **** all day long than women, since there are, relatively speaking, very few women in government.

That said, the particular troll at issue is still a troll and she's still full of **** but it has nothing to do with gender. A troll is a troll is a troll. And she's a troll any way you slice it.

[Mince]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come.

Could you indicate where Kingdom Come is exactly? I've taken geography before, but I'll be damned if I can't locate it on a map.

[Mince]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

Hey, TS1234, if you care to explain the physics behind this, at least I'd be glad to listen. Please, explain the physics to me.

Go:

[Oliver]

I disagree that her gender explains anything, except that conspiracy theorist BSers are equal opportunity BSers. And I'm surprised that you think otherwise. Just as many men as women talk BS all day long without any meaning, probably more, in fact, if governmental agents are any indication. Sheesh.

Actually, if it's governmental people we're talking about, then a whole lot more men than women are talking **** all day long, since there are relatively very few women in government.

That said, the troll is still a troll and she's still full of ****.

I was kidding to get a female reaction... Are you female? :confused:

[Blackadder_no]

Guys! I finally found out how the towers could disintegrate!

http://flickr.com/photos/dystopos/94812146/

The question is, how many of these (http://flickr.com/photos/dystopos/91975305/) would be required to disintegrate both towers?

[The_Fire]

No no no - if BS is a women it explains a lot. I know some
women who talk a lot of stuff the whole day long but without
any meaning. :D

OY!

DO NOT LUMP ME IN WITH BS!


http://www.clipartreview.com/_gallery/_TN/1391980.gif

[Oliver]

OY!

DO NOT LUMP ME IN WITH BS!


http://www.clipartreview.com/_gallery/_TN/1391980.gif

http://www.dreamsignature.com/sigs/sigs193.gif

[jhunter1163]

What happened to the other 9,995 maniacs in 10,000 Maniacs?

[T.A.M.]

I was originally going to post an honest question about the topic at hand, and then I realized...why? From this particular poster i would recieve nothing of worth, nothing positively contributing to the discussion of the WTC collapse.

So Instead, I bring you, dancing smilies.

:dc_jimlad: :dc_chief: :dc_jimlad: :dc_chief: :dc_peevedoff: :dc_peevedoff: :dc_peevedoff: :dc_chief: :dc_jimlad: :dc_chief: :dc_jimlad:

[Muckar-duva]

Louis G Lesce, 86th floor, North Tower:

(They try to get out from the office, but the smoke is thick and black outside. Louis and others stay inside the office and discuss how to get rid of the smoke)

"One of the gentlemen went into another office and came back with a ball-pen hammer. He suggested we smash several windows in the adjacent offices as well so that we didn't create a single big sucking action in the conference room[when breakling the windows].
(...)
The smoke became much less intense [after smashing a window with the hammer]. We smashed two more windows. We could breathe better.
(...)
At one point, the wind from the smashed windows blew the resumes I had been reviewing earlier through the doorway. One of them lingered in the air so long I could almost read the print. Then it flew away with the rest."

[tsig]

Do you even know what rubble is?

that would be Barney Rubble?

[defaultdotxbe]

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on the Conspiracy Theories section. I knew it. *takes pipe cleaner to his brain*

Oh by the way.

" Has he lost his mind?, Can he see or is he blind
Can he walk at all? Or if he moves will he fall?
Is he live or dead? I see thoughts NO within his head.
We'll just pass him there. Why should we even care?"

-Black Sabbath (with the obvious exception of my bold insert)
i think that line is "Has he thoughts within his head?" :)

[Horatius]

So, TS, just out of curiosity: Have you changed your mind about any of the issues we've discussed since you started posting here? Has any of the evidence we've provided had any impact whatsoever on you?

Are you willing to admit that any part of the CT is unlikely or just wrong?

[Shrinker]

what sort of explosives did this.

What's taking so long? The explosives made no bang, made no flash, made no shockwave, broke no windows, made no fireball, left no residues, required no detonators, required no wiring, were flameproof, were detonated with split second precision, could be installed without anyone noticing, and had a destructive power greater than 300 tonnes of TNT. They were undetectable before, after or during detonation. How many candidates can there be?

[jhunter1163]

What's taking so long? The explosives made no bang, made no flash, made no shockwave, broke no windows, made no fireball, left no residues, required no detonators, required no wiring, were flameproof, were detonated with split second precision, could be installed without anyone noticing, and had a destructive power greater than 300 tonnes of TNT. They were undetectable before, after or during detonation. How many candidates can there be?

Only one... HUSHABOOM! (tm)

[Lisa Simpson]

I disagree that her gender explains anything except that conspiracy theory BSers are quasi equal opportunity BSers. And I'm surprised that you think otherwise. Just as many men as women talk BS all day long without any meaning, probably more, in fact, if governmental agencies are any indication. Sheesh.

If it's governmental people we're talking about, then it's more probable that more men than women are talking **** all day long than women, since there are, relatively speaking, very few women in government.

That said, the particular troll at issue is still a troll and she's still full of **** but it has nothing to do with gender. A troll is a troll is a troll. And she's a troll any way you slice it.

Why does anyone even think TS1234 is a woman? Are we once again getting TS1234 confused with the original Truthseeker, who is an incredibly smart Skepchick? What evidence do we have of TS1234's gender?

[eeyore1954]

We see that all of the structural steel is blown apart, and only about 20% of it remains. We have many pictures and videos of steel disintegrating and turning to dust.

Pile of rubble?? What pile?

We have many pictures and videos of [B]steel disintegrating and turning to dust
Did you post one?
I haven't seen one.

Pile of rubble?? What pile
Have you ever looked at what the pile looks like after a controlled demolition. It's very small in comparison to the building. Do you think it is small becuase the building was blown to kingdom come by explosives or is it because of the impact with the ground. You do know that in a controlled demo they don't demolish the building with explosives they cut the supports and let gravity and the ground do the rest of the work.The rubble pile is small because buildings are mostly air believe it or not thats why we can move around in them. In this case the rubble pile also looks smaller because of the several floors of basement.



What puzzles me is you must know these things so do you actually believe what you post.

[TruthSeeker1234]

So, TS, just out of curiosity: Have you changed your mind about any of the issues we've discussed since you started posting here? Has any of the evidence we've provided had any impact whatsoever on you?

Are you willing to admit that any part of the CT is unlikely or just wrong?

I have seen no evidence that the buildings fell down. I began by stating that it appears to me that some very large percentage of the non-metallic mass of the twin towers was rendered into fine powder. Though JREF's have had no shortage of statements to the contrary, I have seen no evidence to the contrary. You have shown me pictures accounting for, at most, 1/10th of 1% of the concrete.

[Garb]

I have seen no evidence that the buildings fell down. I began by stating that it appears to me that some very large percentage of the non-metallic mass of the twin towers was rendered into fine powder. Though JREF's have had no shortage of statements to the contrary, I have seen no evidence to the contrary. You have shown me pictures accounting for, at most, 1/10th of 1% of the concrete.

Yes, the buildings are still standing, so so much for our argument.

So you are agreeing that the powder from the twin towers WASN'T steel?

1/10th of 1%? Where did you come up with this conclusion?

[defaultdotxbe]

I have seen no evidence that the buildings fell down. I began by stating that it appears to me that some very large percentage of the non-metallic mass of the twin towers was rendered into fine powder. Though JREF's have had no shortage of statements to the contrary, I have seen no evidence to the contrary. You have shown me pictures accounting for, at most, 1/10th of 1% of the concrete.
and you have shown no proof that it WAS powerderized, except for your claims that you have no been proved wrong

so truthseeker1234, i beleive you are not a real person, but simply a browser script programmed to spread inane conspiracy theories on internet forums, i have seen no evidence to the contrary, prove me wrong.

[jsiv]

If someone made a song about it, then it MUST be true!

[Garb]

If someone made a song about it, then it MUST be true!

That is the only possible explanation.

[twinstead]

And after receiving much evidence that contradicts his OP and responding to little or none of it, troothydude1234 will just simply go on to start another thread on a completely different subject. Rinse, lather, repeat.

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

This debate tactic is right out of conspiracy theory 101. Never stick to a single topic, because it's quantity of evidence that counts, not quality.

Sigh

[defaultdotxbe]

TS1234:

do you not see concrete in this picture?
http://www.amny.com/media/photo/2006-08/24912509.jpg

how many similar peices of debris were recovered but not photographed?
do you expect clean up workers to photograph every single chunk they removed from the site?

[Loss Leader]

Our best estimate ...

It's like that commercial for Kraft cheese where the four year-old tries to explain where the five cups of milk went.

[TruthSeeker1234]

TS1234:

do you not see concrete in this picture?
http://www.amny.com/media/photo/2006-08/24912509.jpg

how many similar peices of debris were recovered but not photographed?
do you expect clean up workers to photograph every single chunk they removed from the site?

This is a great picture. Scale is a little hard to ascertain, but let's be generous and say this is one ton of concrete. This is 1/200,000 of what I'm looking for.

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.

[fuelair]

A crater is a concave depression caused by a high velocity impact or shockwave. No crater is visible in the photograph provided.

It is as though you have shown us a picture of a decapitated corpse and claimed the victim was killed by atheletes foot.].


You are completely and utterly lacking in the knowledge and experience to discuss this topic ].[/QUOTE]
Adjusted last sentence, from all the threads Killthought, Truthslickercounter and pdoughboy, etc have pulled, it is clear that none of them have the remotest idea of how explosives work, what happens to structural materials under various stresses, basic laws of physics (and chemistry) and their application to the circumstances of 9/11, gas, smoke (-yes, I know it's not a gas but flow pattern is very similar in moving air) movement in air, or any other thing scientific/engineering that is involved. If the people they listen to/read did, that might be ok - but they don't either and many of them do lie about their knowledge base. As I have said before, I loathe Bush and his BBoy handlers/cronies but NOTHING has demonstrated to me the possibility they were involved in the 9/11 thing except in response to it.

[TruthSeeker1234]

So you are agreeing that the powder from the twin towers WASN'T steel?

1/10th of 1%? Where did you come up with this conclusion?

When the event is over, we observe shredded steel strewn about upon a vast field of dust. JREF members have shown pictures of rescue efforts and such that show pieces of concrete that escaped disintegration. My generous estimates are that these pictures show 200 tons, total. Tops. That would be 1/10th of 1%, using the figure 200,000 tons of concrete.

Clearly, if there had been significant amounts of the floor assemblies remaining intact, they would be observed in the pictures I have posted. They are not. I think the mushroom cloud is a clue as to what happened. Here's a picture of the mushroom cloud forming, and some steel beams evaporating as they fall.
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image119.jpg

[defaultdotxbe]

I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.
and i wouldnt expect you to find any undamaged floors, it would be quite suspicious if an acre of concrete can fall 1300 feet and not break

[Dog Town]

I think the mushroom cloud is a clue as to what happened. Here's a picture of the mushroom cloud forming, and some steel beams evaporating as they fall.


Uh...boy, here we go. Micro nukes..... anyone,Bueller?

[ihaunter]

This is a great picture. Scale is a little hard to ascertain, but let's be generous and say this is one ton of concrete. This is 1/200,000 of what I'm looking for.

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.

You want to see the floors COMPLETELY INTACT?!? :jaw-dropp What in the world makes you think that is even possible? Do you have even a rudimentary understanding of the laws of physics? This post would be longer, but I'm rather speechless at the moment.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Have you ever looked at what the pile looks like after a controlled demolition. It's very small in comparison to the building.



Observehttp://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image110.jpghttp://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image112.jpg
Notice how so much of the skeleton is still clearly visible. It has merely been sliced into pieces and allowed to collpase. Not disintegrated.

So here is the hierarchy. Gravity collapse (least disintegration) > standard controlled demolition (some disintegration) > twin towers (near total disintegration)

[The_Fire]

Given the fact that Manhattan is not glowing in the dark without help, I would say that a micronuke is not an option. Not to mention the fact that there were survivors in the immidiate surroundings of the building, no firestorms through the streets, no spikes and continued above-normal levels in the radiation of the area and, let's not forget, none of the unique seismic readings normally connected with a nuke.

Oh, and noone whom died of radioation poisoning within the last five years of living in Manhattan including the year 2001.

That's just a bunch of BS, BS.....

[The_Fire]

Observehttp://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image110.jpghttp://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image112.jpg
Notice how so much of the skeleton is still clearly visible. It has merely been sliced into pieces and allowed to collpase. Not disintegrated.

So here is the hierarchy. Gravity collapse (least disintegration) > standard controlled demolition (some disintegration) > twin towers (near total disintegration)

Wrong, the only thing which connects a CD and the Twin Towers tragedy is the fact that both resulted in the buildings coming down.

[TruthSeeker1234]

and i wouldnt expect you to find any undamaged floors, it would be quite suspicious if an acre of concrete can fall 1300 feet and not break

The concrete did not "break" when it "hit the ground". It turned into powder in mid air. Big difference. You are simply parroting a false story with no evidence.

Where is your evidence that concrete broke when it hit the ground? Where are the large broken pieces?

[Dog Town]

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image119.jpg

Ahem...just to head this off at the pass, so to speak. That is NOT a pyroclatic flow, you see there, either! K?

[Gravy]

I have seen no evidence that the buildings fell down.Thank you for my new signature. It's my favorite yet. Keep up the good work!

[The_Fire]

The concrete did not "break" when it "hit the ground". It turned into powder in mid air. Big difference. You are simply parroting a false story with no evidence.

Where is your evidence that concrete broke when it hit the ground? Where are the large broken pieces?

Evidence? So far all the videos I've seen, supports the floors shattering on impact wether with other floors or the ground.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Given the fact that Manhattan is not glowing in the dark without help, I would say that a micronuke is not an option. Not to mention the fact that there were survivors in the immidiate surroundings of the building, no firestorms through the streets, no spikes and continued above-normal levels in the radiation of the area and, let's not forget, none of the unique seismic readings normally connected with a nuke.

Oh, and noone whom died of radioation poisoning within the last five years of living in Manhattan including the year 2001.

That's just a bunch of BS, BS.....

I agree. I think the evidence is against micronukes. The amount of disintegration suggests such a force, but the radiation is low, and the seismic readings are too low.

So, what can generate the amount of energy needed, and direct the energy as required, and pulverize the building from the top down as we observe?

[Dog Town]

The amount of disintegration suggests such a force

Nope!

[Gravy]

You are simply parroting a false story with no evidence.WAIT! You're going too fast! I can't fit that into my signature. We're limited to 500 characters, including html code. I know I said you're doing good work, but can you not do it so often, or condense it if possible? Two-word slogans would be best. Thanks.

Your Pal,
Gravy

[TruthSeeker1234]

Thank you for my new signature. It's my favorite yet. Keep up the good work!


I have seen no evidence that the buildings "fell down". As in "collapsed". Of course the building collapsed and fell down after it was sytematically blown to kingdom come.

I'm honored to have made your signature box Gravy. Still afraid to debate me on video?

[Garb]

I agree. I think the evidence is against micronukes. The amount of disintegration suggests such a force, but the radiation is low, and the seismic readings are too low.

So, what can generate the amount of energy needed, and direct the energy as required, and pulverize the building from the top down as we observe?

An extremely heavy building collapsing.

I honestly think that you expect there to be no dust, and that the weight of the towers wasn't enough to make anything turn into dust. And last time I checked, controlled demos don't turn steel into dust.

If this explosion was great enough to disintegrate all the concrete (which we all know is a lie because all you can do is "guess") then where are these incredible explosions? Where do we see them during the collapse?

[The_Fire]

I agree. I think the evidence is against micronukes. The amount of disintegration suggests such a force, but the radiation is low, and the seismic readings are too low.

So, what can generate the amount of energy needed, and direct the energy as required, and pulverize the building from the top down as we observe?

1: The buiding were hit by an aircraft with fully loaded fueltanks at max velocity, causing sever structural damage.
2: The following massive fires made the structural damage worse by weaking the remaing support structures by the way of heat.
3: Caused by this weaking, the support structure suporting the largely undamaged part of the building above the point of impact, failed causing the mentioned upper part of the building to ram into the lower part of the building.
4: Due to the fact that the building were not designed for that sort of event, the impact of the upper part of the building caused a global, progressive collapse, which during and after the collapse and the subsequent collision with a little something called Mother Earth, shattered the decks aka as floors of the building, all made from reinforced concrete.
5: A dust cloud, consisting mainly of large amounts of drywall and a certain amount of concrete, allthough not the amount BS1234 claims, formed and were forced into the well known mushroom cloud, which doesn't only occur on nuclear explosions but also on other explosions, due to AIRPRESSURE!.
6: The airpressure, which in normal explosions comes from the shockwave of the explosion itself, were caused by the massive collapse of the buildings which came down very fast, allthough NOT at freefall speed.

[Gravy]

I have seen no evidence that the buildings "fell down". As in "collapsed". Of course the building collapsed and fell down after it was sytematically blown to kingdom come.WAIT! I definitely can't fit all that into my signature!

How did the building both fall down and get blown to "kindom come?" Does "kingdom come" mean "down?" I've never heard that before. Why not just say "down?"

[The_Fire]

WAIT! I definitely can't fit all that into my signature!

How did the building both fall down and get blown to "kindom come?" Does "kingdom come" mean "down?" I've never heard that before. Why not just say "down?"

Create a webpage somewhere and link to it in your sig. It's something I've contemplated doing for QUIET a while now...

[Gravy]

I think the evidence is against micronukes.WILL YOU SLOW DOWN! I CANNOT FIT ALL THIS INTO MY SIGNATURE! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU? TAKE A BREAK, WILL YOU?

What do you think about Mothra's involvement?

[defaultdotxbe]

The concrete did not "break" when it "hit the ground". It turned into powder in mid air. Big difference. You are simply parroting a false story with no evidence.

Where is your evidence that concrete broke when it hit the ground? Where are the large broken pieces?
ok, lets say if the concrete had not "disintegrated in mid air" do you think it would have broken when it hit the ground?

if so, why would you be looking for fully intact floor slabs? do you think that lacking explosives to aid in a building collapse the floors would not have hit the ground?

[TruthSeeker1234]

You want to see the floors COMPLETELY INTACT?!? :jaw-dropp What in the world makes you think that is even possible? Do you have even a rudimentary understanding of the laws of physics? This post would be longer, but I'm rather speechless at the moment.

Not completely intact, but still macroscopic. Physics suggestes that objects do not pulverize themselves. Even if you accept the notion that the force due to the acceleration of gravity is enough for the upper section to pulverize the lower section (ridiculous, but let's go with it), what pulverizes the upper section before it hits the ground?

Do you have a rudimentary understanding of physics? The gravitational potential energy supposedly employed to explain all the work was mostly spent just accelerating the mass toward the ground, as the "collapse" was so rapid. Thus, only a small percentage of the PE was available to do any other work. From this small percentage of PE, you have to explain the complete pulverization of all the non-metallic contents of the structure into fine powder, you have to explain the shredding of the entire steel superstructure into pieces, the expansion of the dust cloud, and a lot of other phenomena.

Thus a gravity -only theory would seem to violate conservation of energy.

Guys, look at the pictures. Those buildings disppeared. You got some explaining to do. Please pick up where NIST left off.

[uk_dave]

Where on earth does truthseeker get the idea that there should be so much concrete?

The floors were 4 inches (100mm thick) cast concrete (non structural) on a corrugated steel (thin steel) deck supported on the floor trusses.

The floor concrete was one of the weakest elements of the building. All it was there for was to provide a flat and level surface for the offices etc. Without the steel decking and/or the floor trusses that concrete was only going in one direction.

DOWN.

[The_Fire]

No.They.Didn't. They.Fell.Down.

[Garb]

Not completely intact, but still macroscopic. Physics suggestes that objects do not pulverize themselves. Even if you accept the notion that the force due to the acceleration of gravity is enough for the upper section to pulverize the lower section (ridiculous, but let's go with it), what pulverizes the upper section before it hits the ground?

Do you have a rudimentary understanding of physics? The gravitational potential energy supposedly employed to explain all the work was mostly spent just accelerating the mass toward the ground, as the "collapse" was so rapid. Thus, only a small percentage of the PE was available to do any other work. From this small percentage of PE, you have to explain the complete pulverization of all the non-metallic contents of the structure into fine powder, you have to explain the shredding of the entire steel superstructure into pieces, the expansion of the dust cloud, and a lot of other phenomena.

Thus a gravity -only theory would seem to violate conservation of energy.

Guys, look at the pictures. Those buildings disppeared. You got some explaining to do. Please pick up where NIST left off.

The upper floors weren't pulversized before they hit the ground. I see the upper floors falling on the lower floors, crushing what was under it and causing smoke and dust.

And if the building dissapeared wouldn't there be no evidence of a building being there? Look back at your "crater".

[Earl The Tall]

WILL YOU SLOW DOWN! I CANNOT FIT ALL THIS INTO MY SIGNATURE! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU? TAKE A BREAK, WILL YOU?

What do you think about Mothra's involvement?

Mothra? Your crazy man, it is Rodan we should be looking at.
http://www.onlyinternet.net/awinterrowd/kaiju/gallery/rodan.jpg

[The_Fire]

The floors were 4 inches (100mm thick) cast concrete (non structural) on a corrugated steel (thin steel) deck supported on the floor trusses.


Thank you for the correction. That makes it even more likely that the floors shattered on impact due to the fact that there were no iron inside the concrete itself (I believe it's called Rebar?).

[Pardalis]

Or maybe it really was termites, eating away the steel...

[uk_dave]

Truthseeker

Think of the concrete floors as big sheets of glass.

Very heavy but also very fragile.

Now, go outside and have someone drop a sheet of glass on your head.

I gaurantee one of them will break.

[defaultdotxbe]

Mothra? Your crazy man, it is Rodan we should be looking at.
http://www.onlyinternet.net/awinterrowd/kaiju/gallery/rodan.jpg
i have photographic evidence that proves you BOTH wrong
http://www.godzilla.stopklatka.pl/godz-pl/megal2.jpg

[The_Fire]

Or maybe it really was termites, eating away the steel...

:slap: NO MORE DARKSIDE FOR YOU!

[uk_dave]

Thank you for the correction. That makes it even more likely that the floors shattered on impact due to the fact that there were no iron inside the concrete itself (I believe it's called Rebar?).

They may have had a mesh reinforcement, like a big net made up of thin steel bars welded at the intersections...but this would be to provide a degree of resistance against small amounts of deflection of the floor trusses and also to provide a degree of control over the thermal expansion and contraction of the concrete. There would also be movement joints in a floor of that size for that same purpose.

[Christophera]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

God, I love it when people are almost totally reasonable. Really.

Consider if there is a hole where WTC 1 there had to be explosives well distributed through the core walls and foundation.

And, ......... absoulutely correct it is just utterly divorced from reality. to term this (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg) anything but an explosion

[uk_dave]

Somehow I don't think you guys are taking this seriously.

And you forgot to include gamera.

[The_Fire]

They may have had a mesh reinforcement, like a big net made up of thin steel bars welded at the intersections...but this would be to provide a degree of resistance against small amounts of deflection of the floor trusses and also to provide a degree of control over the thermal expansion and contraction of the concrete. There would also be movement joints in a floor of that size for that same purpose.

In other words: No real structural importance?

[Earl The Tall]

i have photographic evidence that proves you BOTH wrong
http://www.godzilla.stopklatka.pl/godz-pl/megal2.jpg

Oh awesome find. I bow to you sir.

[Garb]

God, I love it when people are almost totally reasonable. Really.

Consider if there is a hole where WTC 1 there had to be explosives well distributed through the core walls and foundation.

And, ......... absoulutely correct it is just utterly divorced from reality. to term this (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexploding.jpg) anything but an explosion

Am I the only one who doesn't get what in God's name this guy is rambling about? Except for his stupid picture he keeps on posting whenever he wants to say there was an explosion.

[uk_dave]

In other words: No real structural importance?

If they had a structural capability then there would be no need for the floor trusses except to tie the external columns to the internal.

4 inch concrete over that span wouldn't even be able to support it's own weight let alone any live loads applied.

I would gestimate that a reinforced concrete floor over that span would probably be about 12 to 18 inches thick...maybe more.

[Christophera]

What's taking so long? The explosives made no bang, made no flash, made no shockwave, broke no windows, made no fireball, left no residues, required no detonators, required no wiring, were flameproof, were detonated with split second precision, could be installed without anyone noticing, and had a destructive power greater than 300 tonnes of TNT. They were undetectable before, after or during detonation. How many candidates can there be?

They made no bang because they were in concrete, they went boom (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg) and did not flash, and made no shockwaves that were easily detectable, were so well distributed that the residue was too finely spread, and detonators were installed in a well organized last moment powerdown where security cameras were off (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053) and the optimal placement and distribution caused destruction usually associated with much high quantities of explosives.

It can only be a steel reinforced concrete core with high explosives encapsulated inside of it. (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html)

[Garb]

They made no bang because they were in concrete, they went boom (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg) and did not flash, and made no shockwaves that were easily detectable, were so well distributed that the residue was too finely spread, and detonators were installed in a well organized last moment powerdown where security cameras were off (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053) and the optimal placement and distribution caused destruction usually associated with much high quantities of explosives.

It can only be a steel reinforced concrete core with high explosives encapsulated inside of it. (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html)

Ohhhkaay..

I'll pretend that made sense.

[uk_dave]

It can only be a steel reinforced concrete core with high explosives encapsulated inside of it. (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html)

Oh well, that's ok then, we can all go home now.

[Pardalis]

Am I the only one who doesn't get what in God's name this guy is rambling about? Except for his stupid picture he keeps on posting whenever he wants to say there was an explosion.

No, I too have no idea of what he's trying to prove.

[Crungy]

They made no bang because they were in concrete, they went boom (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg) and did not flash, and made no shockwaves that were easily detectable, were so well distributed that the residue was too finely spread, and detonators were installed in a well organized last moment powerdown where security cameras were off (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053) and the optimal placement and distribution caused destruction usually associated with much high quantities of explosives.

It can only be a steel reinforced concrete core with high explosives encapsulated inside of it. (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html)

Did the Keebler elves who did this, leave a trail of cookie crumbs? If so, what type of cookies were they? I've got $50 riding on vanilla wafers.

[defaultdotxbe]

and detonators were installed in a well organized last moment powerdown where security cameras were off (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1212053)
ah, the infamous power-down myth

even forbes says it was only half of one tower, howd they put the detonators in the other 165 floors?

not to mention that no one else seems to have heard of this powerdown, or noticed (was it pardalis that made the pic of the powered-down WTC at night? lol)

[Garb]

Did the Keebler elves who did this, leave a trail of cookie crumbs? If so, what type of cookies were they? I've got $50 riding on vanilla wafers.

We all know that the sulfur that was found in the rubble can only mean one thing: Oreos!!!

[Puggy]

Been lurking way too much. I've read hundreds of messages in the past months and have noticed something.

TS1234s arguments seem similar to the ones used by IDers, i.e. if it looks LIKE a CD then it IS a CD. If it looks like it was designed then it was designed. hmmm.

May seem off-topic and apologize but, TS1234, are You a creationist/IDer?

[Gravy]

You got some explaining to do.It is Killtown! That's his pet phrase. Look how TS appeared right after Killtown's banning. And look how he invokes physical laws but is completely unable to show his calculations. Killtown all the way. Dude, being banned doesn't suddenly make you smarter.

[eeyore1954]

This is a great picture. Scale is a little hard to ascertain, but let's be generous and say this is one ton of concrete. This is 1/200,000 of what I'm looking for.

I iguess the clean up crews didn't know you would want pictures of every piece of debris.


As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.


This is one of the most amazing (beyond ridiculous) statements I have ever heard from you or any other person discussing the collapse.

[Gravy]

Christophera, I noticed that your posts in the "Realistice" thread have been disappearing, seemingly randomly, over the last month. Have you noticed that? You might want to look into it before they're all gone.

[Gravy]

TS, I hope the main thing you take from this thread is that Christophera agrees with you.

[Crungy]

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.

Did you check your local Krispy Kreme? I've heard that they've added a super size menu.

[Gravy]

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.Don't rush your search. Check back in with us each year and let us know how it's going, 'kay?

[twinstead]

TS, I hope the main thing you take from this thread is that Christophera agrees with you.

That should be enough to strike fear into anybody's heart

[twinstead]

This is one of the most amazing (beyond ridiculous) statements I have ever heard from you or any other person discussing the collapse.

Yes. I think we DO have a winner!

[TruthSeeker1234]

Been lurking way too much. I've read hundreds of messages in the past months and have noticed something.

TS1234s arguments seem similar to the ones used by IDers, i.e. if it looks LIKE a CD then it IS a CD. If it looks like it was designed then it was designed. hmmm.

May seem off-topic and apologize but, TS1234, are You a creationist/IDer?

Total science buff here. I accept evolution as having overwhelming evidence to support it. Indeed, spontaneously self-organizing systems can appear designed to the casual observer, but actually, it is the exceedingly complex systems, such as biology, which cannot have been designed "top-down", but only spontaneous order can explain them. For the most part, ID's fail to appreciate the anthropic principle, or natural selection, or the time-scales involved.

I don't believe astrology, talking to the dead, or any so-called paranormal powers. I am a skeptic in the tradition of the Amazing Randi. Randi became famous as a magician who explained how his tricks did not violate physics.

9/11 was a trick.

[TruthSeeker1234]

There appears to have been a new round of speculation as to "who I am". I am not Killtown. I am not Christophera. I have made a few posts on LC, as TruthSeeker1234. On Wikipedia, I am TruthSeeker1234. I have made posts on the internet as another name, but only on subjects wholly unrelated to 9/11. On 9/11, I either use TruthSeeker1234, or else my real name.

[Garb]

Total science buff here. I accept evolution as having overwhelming evidence to support it. Indeed, spontaneously self-organizing systems can appear designed to the casual observer, but actually, it is the exceedingly complex systems, such as biology, which cannot have been designed "top-down", but only spontaneous order can explain them. For the most part, ID's fail to appreciate the anthropic principle, or natural selection, or the time-scales involved.

I don't believe astrology, talking to the dead, or any so-called paranormal powers. I am a skeptic in the tradition of the Amazing Randi. Randi became famous as a magician who explained how his tricks did not violate physics.

9/11 was a trick.

You do know your previous paragraphs had no connection to your "9/11 was a trick" theory.

[tsig]

Or maybe it really was termites, eating away the steel...

thats thermites per Steve Jones

[uk_dave]

No it's termites.

Jones will be correcting the next version of his paper.

[Gravy]

There appears to have been a new round of speculation as to "who I am". I am not Killtown.Prove that you aren't. If you fail to do so, then you are. I know you agree with me, because you use this logic all the time.

Go right ahead. Prove that you're not Killtown. If you cannot, then you are in violation of forum rules, which prohibit Killtowns.

[tsig]

Ohhhkaay..

I'll pretend that made sense.

It's Invisicret filled with Hushaboom, don't see it don't hear it but when you see the video......well it all makes sense.

[Gravy]

No it's termites.

Jones will be correcting the next version of his paper.In my last communication with Jones, he said he's leaning towards termates, which are termites that eat wooden matches.

[uk_dave]

In my last communication with Jones, he said he's leaning towards termates, which are termites that eat wooden matches.

Oh, I thought they were australian termites.

:D

[tsig]

No it's termites.

Jones will be correcting the next version of his paper.

Would those be nano-nija termites then?

Special steel-eating concrete destroying ones?

[Pardalis]

Would those be nano-nija termites then?

Special steel-eating concrete destroying ones?

God knows what the US government is secretly developping. :boxedin:

[tsig]

Prove that you aren't. If you fail to do so, then you are. I know you agree with me, because you use this logic all the time.

Go right ahead. Prove that you're not Killtown. If you cannot, then you are in violation of forum rules, which prohibit Killtowns.

Talks like Killtown...

Hummm

The one mistake you made is accusing BR549 or whoever, of using logic. Logic has no place in his/her mind, once the conclusions is reached the facts must be cut to fit the conclusion.

[Puggy]

Total science buff here. I accept evolution as having overwhelming evidence to support it. Indeed, spontaneously self-organizing systems can appear designed to the casual observer, but actually, it is the exceedingly complex systems, such as biology, which cannot have been designed "top-down", but only spontaneous order can explain them. For the most part, ID's fail to appreciate the anthropic principle, or natural selection, or the time-scales involved.

I don't believe astrology, talking to the dead, or any so-called paranormal powers. I am a skeptic in the tradition of the Amazing Randi. Randi became famous as a magician who explained how his tricks did not violate physics.

9/11 was a trick.

Interesting.

So You're using the "God of the gaps" argument in this whole CD thing? I mean, if complex organisms can evolve through non-random events, what's the difference with the WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapses? Can't a step by step process account for the collapses?

Each one started fairly simple. In the case of 1 and 2, planes hit them. Lots of burning, combined with the flame retardant being removed from the steel made them weak. Many minutes later, the collapses started exactly were the planes hit. etc etc. 7 was hit by lots of debris, lots of burning, damaged side fell first, then the rest followed, etc.

Sure, You can bring up some gaps in the official report, but most gaps have been explained with the data at hand. The thing is You wont accept it, since You've already made up Your mind, which contradicts Your "science buff" description of Yourself. So what happens when these gaps have been filled?

The comparison with ID is uncanny, since evolution has gaps, ID is true.

[defaultdotxbe]

thats thermites per Steve Jones

No it's termites.

Jones will be correcting the next version of his paper.

In my last communication with Jones, he said he's leaning towards termates, which are termites that eat wooden matches.

Would those be nano-nija termites then?

Special steel-eating concrete destroying ones?
i think we need to clear soemthign up here

you got your termites, which eat wood

termates, which eat wooden matches

but neither of those were involved in 9/11, it was the sooper-sekrit naotech-enhanced termates that eat steel (SIDEWAYS no less)

[Gravy]

I am a skeptic in the tradition of the Amazing Randi. Randi became famous as a magician who explained how his tricks did not violate physics. 9/11 was a trick.
You, sir, have come to the absolute best place in the universe to prove that contention! Just email Randi, explain your position about 9/11, and post his reply here.

That is my challenge to you. Agreed? If not, why?

[negativ]

As our English friends might say, I couldn't be arsed to read this entire thread, but I'd just like to point out that I want to strangle CTers with banner-sized enlargements of the photos in this thread whenever I read the phrase "fell in its own footprint" and/or "symmetrical collapse".

I'm really getting bored with the Truthers. It's been a nice diversion from televangelists, faith healers, and intelligent design proponents, but they seem to be pretty much operating on cruise control at this point. I suppose that's a good thing, but now I have to retreat back into the real world of jihadists with bombs and christian fundies with legislative power. Bleh.

[defaultdotxbe]

As our English friends might say, I couldn't be arsed to read this entire thread, but I'd just like to point out that I want to strangle CTers with banner-sized enlargements of the photos in this thread whenever I read the phrase "fell in its own footprint" and/or "symmetrical collapse".

I'm really getting bored with the Truthers. It's been a nice diversion from televangelists, faith healers, and intelligent design proponents, but they seem to be pretty much operating on cruise control at this point. I suppose that's a good thing, but now I have to retreat back into the real world of jihadists with bombs and christian fundies with legislative power. Bleh.
im tryign to stir up some flat-earth discussion in another thread, your welcome to swing by there

although i think flat-earthers arent even on cruise control, they are in Park with the e-brake on, lol

[tsig]

i think we need to clear soemthign up here

you got your termites, which eat wood

termates, which eat wooden matches

but neither of those were involved in 9/11, it was the sooper-sekrit naotech-enhanced termates that eat steel (SIDEWAYS no less)

It was the command and the control of the n-e termates that was so difficult,

they way they stood the fire and explosions was truely heroic, then they ate down the building around themselves and turned into fuel to melt the steel, well my heart goes out to those little guys.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Only one... HUSHABOOM! (tm)

So, the true 9-11 conspirators are revealed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Boris_natasha_fearless.jpg

Hookie Smoke!

[LashL]

Are we once again getting TS1234 confused with the original Truthseeker, who is an incredibly smart Skepchick?

Good Ed, no! Nobody could ever confuse TS1234 with the original Truthseeker!

[Horatius]

I have seen no evidence that the buildings fell down. I began by stating that it appears to me that some very large percentage of the non-metallic mass of the twin towers was rendered into fine powder. Though JREF's have had no shortage of statements to the contrary, I have seen no evidence to the contrary. You have shown me pictures accounting for, at most, 1/10th of 1% of the concrete.

So, pictures are the only evidence you will accept? And why exactly do you think anyone would have taken such pictures of the rubble? Why would anyone on the day have expected they would need to address such questions years after the fact?

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.

And what leads you to expect "acre-sized" slabs? You claim to be such fan of physics, please explain how an acre-sized slab of concrete can fall any distance and not shatter into smaller pieces. Have you ever worked with concrete paving stones? They're brittle. They break when they fall. Any major project that uses them expects a certain amount of loss due to such breakage. Please explain how your expectation is in any way reasonable.

When the event is over, we observe shredded steel strewn about upon a vast field of dust. JREF members have shown pictures of rescue efforts and such that show pieces of concrete that escaped disintegration. My generous estimates are that these pictures show 200 tons, total. Tops. That would be 1/10th of 1%, using the figure 200,000 tons of concrete.

So, these 1/10th of 1% numbers you keep tossing off are "generous estimates". Please explain how you made these estimates, beyond just looking at a few pictures. Again, anyone who has worked with concrete will tell you, it produces way more dust than you would expect. I've shown my calculations about the dust on at least two (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1996282#post1996282) occasions (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2019175#post2019175). If you've really done any serious attempts at estimating how much dust there was on the day, please show me, with numbers, where you think my analysis went wrong. As I said in the previous threads, I figure about 3.5%-7.6% of the original mass turned to dust.

Please don't just ignore this again. You claim to be a fan of science, try doing some. Address my analysis, and perhaps we can both learn something new. I already know what pictures you've looked at, so don't bother posting those again. Show us some real work.


So here is the hierarchy. Gravity collapse (least disintegration) > standard controlled demolition (some disintegration) > twin towers (near total disintegration)

Take a look at this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6yK9XLRb1u8

Demolition of the Landmark Tower in Forth Worth, Texas, which left this as a debris pile:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomicglee/115419262/in/set-72057594084335155/

So, where in this debris pile do we see "slabs" of concrete? Why don't we? What force "disintegrated" them in this case?

And while we're at it, where did all the dust come from in the video?

And I think that's enough for now.

[jhunter1163]

I move we change Christophera's official nickname to "Invisicretin".

[eeyore1954]

i think we need to clear soemthign up here

you got your termites, which eat wood

termates, which eat wooden matches

but neither of those were involved in 9/11, it was the sooper-sekrit naotech-enhanced termates that eat steel (SIDEWAYS no less)


I was under the impression it was the sooper-sekrit naotech-enhanced termates that have flame throwing antenae.

[ihaunter]

Not completely intact, but still macroscopic. Physics suggestes that objects do not pulverize themselves. Even if you accept the notion that the force due to the acceleration of gravity is enough for the upper section to pulverize the lower section (ridiculous, but let's go with it), what pulverizes the upper section before it hits the ground?
Before it hit the ground? Nothing. When it hit the ground? The ground.

Do you have a rudimentary understanding of physics? The gravitational potential energy supposedly employed to explain all the work was mostly spent just accelerating the mass toward the ground, as the "collapse" was so rapid. Thus, only a small percentage of the PE was available to do any other work. From this small percentage of PE, you have to explain the complete pulverization of all the non-metallic contents of the structure into fine powder, you have to explain the shredding of the entire steel superstructure into pieces, the expansion of the dust cloud, and a lot of other phenomena.

Thus a gravity -only theory would seem to violate conservation of energy.

Guys, look at the pictures. Those buildings disppeared. You got some explaining to do. Please pick up where NIST left off.

I will admit that I don't know enough physics to explain exactly what is wrong with this, but it is demonstrably wrong. Take an egg, hold it a couple feet above a cement floor, and then, drop it. Did it break? Why? Wasn't the gravitational potential energy being used to accelerate it? Now, look at the eggs "debris". You will probably find a few large (relative to the egg) pieces of shell. Take a similar egg and drop it from a height of twenty feet. It breaks again, even though it was still accelerating. You will also find fewer large pieces of shell.

I know that an egg is not the same as the towers, but the principle remains the same.

[twinstead]

I will admit that I don't know enough physics to explain exactly what is wrong with thisAt least you admit it; troothydude1234 doesn't have any idea what he is talking about, but it doesn't prevent him from basing his theories on it.

[Elizabeth I]

By gosh, he's right! Now that I think about it, I find it extremely suspicious that I haven't seen ANY of these things in the rubble:

A complete table setting from Windows on the World.


Kind of sad - on my one and only trip to NYC, I went to Windows on the World for a drink.

[PerryLogan]

I'm just glad the conspirators were willing to leave such monumental clues in plain site. If I were planning a big hoax, I definitely wouldn't do that--on the theory that some clever fellow like Truthseeker might come along and spot it.

[LashL]

I'm just glad the conspirators were willing to leave such monumental clues in plain site. If I were planning a big hoax, I definitely wouldn't do that--on the theory that some clever fellow like Truthseeker might come along and spot it.

Raging clues, even.

[Elizabeth I]

http://www.avenueofthestrongest.us/home.html


Piles of rubble
Steel beams and building skeleton that have not been "disintegrated" or "vaporized" or whatever the word was

Also an amazing photo exhibit, taken by a photographer whose studio was two blocks away from the WTC and was walking to work when the planes hit. We had the show at the San Antonio Public Library until September 11 this year.

I also think that the first four photos are especially telling. From my perspective at least, it's very obvious that the hole in the building was made by something rather wide crashing into it.

[TruthSeeker1234]

http://www.avenueofthestrongest.us/home.html

Piles of rubble
Steel beams and building skeleton that have not been "disintegrated" or "vaporized" or whatever the word wasAlso an amazing photo exhibit, taken by a photographer whose studio was two blocks away from the WTC and was walking to work when the planes hit. We had the show at the San Antonio Public Library until September 11 this year.

I also think that the first four photos are especially telling. From my perspective at least, it's very obvious that the hole in the building was made by something rather wide crashing into it.

Hi Elizabeth nice link. All I see is obliteration, no sign of floor assemblies anywhere, and nowhere near 100% of the steel either.

I stand by my claim that about 99% of the non-metallic contents of both towers were rendered into fine powder.

Thank you for the excellent photos.

[Garb]

Hi Elizabeth nice link. All I see is obliteration, no sign of floor assemblies anywhere, and nowhere near 100% of the steel either.

I stand by my claim that about 99% of the non-metallic contents of both towers were rendered into fine powder.

Thank you for the excellent photos.

All you have is claims. Care to show EVIDENCE for a change?

[Horatius]

Hi Elizabeth nice link. All I see is obliteration, no sign of floor assemblies anywhere, and nowhere near 100% of the steel either.

I stand by my claim that about 99% of the non-metallic contents of both towers were rendered into fine powder.

Thank you for the excellent photos.

So, weren't you the guy who said he could destroy (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1952870#post1952870) any arguments in favour of the official story of the collapse?

This will be one area where I destroy the chosen official theorist.

You can't even (or won't even) destroy my quite simple analysis of the dust (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2027814#post2027814), and yet you expect us to believe you can destroy the entire theory of the collapse? Come on, I'm waiting.

And while we're at it, how's the Great Debate going? R.Mackey and I still have a bet on (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64596), you know. I'm just wondering if it's time for me to concede or not.....

[Eos of the Eons]

Good Ed, no! Nobody could ever confuse TS1234 with the original Truthseeker!


Yeah, no kidding. I'm cheezed this cheesy cheeser would take on such a name and then say the towers were "blown up".

Yeah, like the planes never hit the towers, and I didn't watch them fall down on live TV on 9/11 with my own eyes, and neither did the people who were there watching them on the site with their own eyes. And all that amateur video didn't capture the towers coming down one after the other on 9/11.


There is a shot of a tower falling here:http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/911/SouthTowerCollapse.jpg
http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/911/911.htm

And Jihad hasn't been called for decades now,
==1966.Aug.--- > [•X] In Egypt, Nasser executes Sayyid Qutb for sedition. A leader of the conservative Muslim Brotherhood, Qutb had promoted the idea that true Muslims must conduct a jihad against all un-Islamic institutions and influences, including secular Arab regimes. This outlook will form the basis of the Islamist movement. Qutb wrote: “What should be our verdict on this synthetic (Western) civilization? What should be done about America and the West, given their overwhelming danger to humanity…? Should we not issue a sentence of death? Is it not the verdict most appropriate to the crime?” Qutb’s brother will later be one of Osama bin Laden’s college professors. [hiro1 / berg]http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/Backg/Backg1.htm


and the tower wasn't bombed years before in 1993 either.

==Feb.26 > [•XX] The first major Islamist terrorist attack within the US: the original World Trade Center bombing is carried out by Ramzi Yousef and associates from the Alkhifa Center in Brooklyn. Hoping to kill thousands by toppling the North Tower onto the South, the group detonates a 1500-pound bomb concealed in a rental van in a parking garage beneath the towers. The blast and the smoke from the resulting fires kill six people and injure about 1000. The $5000 terrorist operation does $300 million worth of damage, but the towers remain standing.http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/Backg/Backg3.htm

Seriously, the bomb couldn't create the fires and heat that the crashed planes did.

I'm just glad our TS would never be like this ridiculous imposer.

[TruthSeeker1234]

All you have is claims. Care to show EVIDENCE for a change?

I have repeatedly shown evidence. THe photo at the top of this thread is prime evidence. Clearly, there is nothing left of either tower. There are no piles. There is a crater where 1 was. Come on. 99% of the non-metallic material is obliterated. There is no explanation for this except for strong explosives of some kind. Do you need to see the mushroom cloud again?

[TruthSeeker1234]

Y

There is a shot of a tower falling here:http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/911/SouthTowerCollapse.jpg



http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/911...erCollapse.jpg

Eos, you have shown us a picture of the south tower blowing up. If you don't think so, please explain how all that dust and debris is being forced out of the near side. Clearly, the top 30 stories are tipping away from the camera. There can be no force pushing down on the near side.

Also, notice that the top is already shattered, as evidenced by the corner.

[Eos of the Eons]

Yes, ignore the fact that a plane hit it, and the top is now FALLING due to the fact that there is no longer any support from the part that was smacked by the plane and completely obliterated by the resulting fire and destruction.

You must find this fun. It's like telling a kid that a horse is a cow. Well, we're not kids, and a horse is a horse.

Nice try, but this is not funny. It's offensive. I'm disgusted.

[TruthSeeker1234]

You, sir, have come to the absolute best place in the universe to prove that contention! Just email Randi, explain your position about 9/11, and post his reply here.

That is my challenge to you. Agreed? If not, why?

OK. What's Randi's email address?

[Bell]

OK. What's Randi's email address?

James Randi's email address: randi@randi.org

http://www.randi.org/contact.html

ETA: $1,000,000 Challenge
Please direct ALL Challenge-related inquiries to the following email address:

challenge@randi.org



Jeezzz, do we have to do all homework for you? Took me 10 seconds.

[Brainache]

I have repeatedly shown evidence. THe photo at the top of this thread is prime evidence. Clearly, there is nothing left of either tower. There are no piles. There is a crater where 1 was. Come on. 99% of the non-metallic material is obliterated. There is no explanation for this except for strong explosives of some kind. Do you need to see the mushroom cloud again?

Since when is a six storey high pile of mashed up concrete and steel a crater?

The concrete wasn't obliterated it was smashed to small pieces by the effects of gravity. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and get a clue.

You really have no idea what shape the cloud of dust and smoke should have been if you think it would have been any different to the one which actually formed that day.

I have to ask you why you cling so tightly to your theory of explosives.

Why is it so compelling for you?

What does it mean?

Why do you try so hard to distort reality to make it fit your idiotic premise?

How is it even remotely possible to plant these explosives in the WTC without thousands of people being aware of it?

[Gravy]

I have repeatedly shown evidence. THe photo at the top of this thread is prime evidence. Clearly, there is nothing left of either tower. There are no piles. There is a crater where 1 was. Come on. 99% of the non-metallic material is obliterated. There is no explanation for this except for strong explosives of some kind. Do you need to see the mushroom cloud again?As a reminder of how divorced from reality this troll is, this is the photo he uses to show "no piles."

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image129.jpg


Nope, no pile here. Nosiree. Move on. Nothing to see here, especially no "nonmetallic" material.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453c3ffb52e3e.jpg

Mr. Randi's email address is randi@randi.org.

[Gravy]

http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/911...erCollapse.jpg

Eos, you have shown us a picture of the south tower blowing up. If you don't think so, please explain how all that dust and debris is being forced out of the near side. Clearly, the top 30 stories are tipping away from the camera. There can be no force pushing down on the near side.You are lying, TS. The ENTIRE top has fallen DOWN a good distance at that point, which you well know, since you say you've watched many videos of the event. Don't lie.

[Enlightenment]

Is this what you believe Truthseeker?

Secret Conspiracy meeting:
Mr X: I have a plan to give us a reason to start a war in the middle east.
Mr Y: Let's hear it
Mr X: Our intelligence indicates that Osama Bin Ladin is planning to hijack multiple commercial airliners and send them into the Pentagon, the White House, and both WTC buildings.
Mr Y: WHAT THE... When did you...
Mr X: Hear me out. Allowing these events to take place won't be enough to convince the American civilians that we should develop a military response.
Mr Y: really?
Mr X: For effect, we must plant explosives in the WTC buildings and bring them down to ensure more death, because the shock of hijacked commercial jets flying into our government buildings and our financial base won't be enough. We need more.
Mr Y: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: Yes sir, I've done the research, and it seems like we'll need that extra punch to sway the public.
Mr Y: Well, let's not allow the plane to hit the pentagon, my friends work there.
Mr X; NO SIR. The pentagon must be targeted and hit. Otherwise, the public wont let us wage war in the middle east.
Mr Y: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: BRILLIANT!

[gumboot]

Is it just me, or are the CT claims actually getting more stupid over time? I mean, sure they bring back the same old arguments over and over, but I remember a time when CTers actually made an attempt to justify their ridiculous arguments.

Where has that sense of logic and reason gone?

-Gumboot

[LashL]

Is it just me, or are the CT claims actually getting more stupid over time? I mean, sure they bring back the same old arguments over and over, but I remember a time when CTers actually made an attempt to justify their ridiculous arguments.

Where has that sense of logic and reason gone?

-Gumboot

It's not just you, Gumboot. Some of the CT claims are getting more stupid over time, as are some of the CTers.

And there's a certain "special" breed of CTers, such as TS1234, who are wholly incapable of rational thought, logic, or reason. You know, the kind who post a particular photograph and claim that it "proves" their unfounded assertions, even though it does nothing of the sort, and ignore all photographs (and a myriad of other objective evidence) that proves their unfounded assertions to be incorrect. Then, they post the same photograph over and over and over and over and over again, and make the same unfounded assertions, on as many threads as necessary, while continuing to ignore all other photographs and the myriad of other objective evidence that proves their unfounded assertions false.

And so on.

[Enlightenment]

There are so many other ways that our government could have justified everything they are doing in the middle east.

But no, our government decided on the 9/11 plan.

It's so obsurd that I don't even understand why you people waste energy arguing with people like truthseeker. It's like watching Mike Tyson argue physics with Stephen Hawking.

[uk_dave]

I'm wondering how long it will be before the CT'ers manage to spin this story into their fantasies:

Experts create invisibility cloak

A US-British team of scientists has successfully tested a cloak of invisibility in the laboratory.

The device mostly hid a small copper cylinder from microwaves in tests at Duke University, North Carolina.

It works by deflecting the microwaves around the object and restoring them on the other side, as if they had passed through empty space.

But making an object vanish before a person's eyes is still the stuff of science fiction - for now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6064620.stm

:boxedin:

[Brainache]

I'm wondering how long it will be before the CT'ers manage to spin this story into their fantasies:

Experts create invisibility cloak

A US-British team of scientists has successfully tested a cloak of invisibility in the laboratory.

The device mostly hid a small copper cylinder from microwaves in tests at Duke University, North Carolina.

It works by deflecting the microwaves around the object and restoring them on the other side, as if they had passed through empty space.

But making an object vanish before a person's eyes is still the stuff of science fiction - for now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6064620.stm

:boxedin:

Sorry Dave too late:

http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=61944&highlight=klingons

[uk_dave]

Sorry Dave too late:

http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=61944&highlight=klingons

Oh good grief. :eek:

[defaultdotxbe]

Sorry Dave too late:

http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=61944&highlight=klingons
something im not sure was ever mentioned in that thread:

the romulans never referred to their ship as a "bird of prey" sulu simply commented that it was painted like a bird pf prey, and the name stuck

i dont believe we ever knew the romulan designation of that class of ship

i stand by my conclusions in that thread, it must have been a klingon bird of prey, specifically one that can fire while cloaked

[Brainache]

I'd like to see anyone invent a 9/11 ct that hasn't already been seriously proposed by some nutter somewhere. I don't think it can be done.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Yes, ignore the fact that a plane hit it, and the top is now FALLING due to the fact that there is no longer any support from the part that was smacked by the plane and completely obliterated by the resulting fire and destruction.

You must find this fun. It's like telling a kid that a horse is a cow. Well, we're not kids, and a horse is a horse.

Nice try, but this is not funny. It's offensive. I'm disgusted.

Seriously, Eos. You posted a picture of the SouthTower. The top 30 floors or so are tipping away from us, toward the south. Large clouds of dense dust and debris are being ejected toward us and to the right, that is, to the north. That is the exact opposite direction from the way the top part of the building is falling. On the side nearest us, there is no acceleration downward. THe downward acceleration is on the other side. Since there is no acceleration downward on the near side, there is no force (F=ma).

Please explain to me what you think is causing the concrete to become pulverized into fine powder, and then ejected outwards away from the direction of the falling top.

[uk_dave]

I'd like to see anyone invent a 9/11 ct that hasn't already been seriously proposed by some nutter somewhere. I don't think it can be done.

(cracks knuckles)

Where was Tom Cruise on 9/11?

Huh?
:confused:

[Eos of the Eons]

Umm. Yeah. That's how they hid the bombs, and the persons running around setting up the bombs. Yeah. That's it.


Let's just ignore the "mostly hid" part of the article :boxedin:

[Gravy]

On the side nearest us, there is no acceleration downward. THe downward acceleration is on the other side. Since there is no acceleration downward on the near side, there is no force (F=ma).Please stop lying. I already told you this was wrong, and referred you to the videos that you've already seen.

If you cannot stop lying, you need professional mental health care. Clear enough?

[Eos of the Eons]

(cracks knuckles)

Where was Tom Cruise on 9/11?

Huh?
:confused:
The Mission Impossible 3 actor has been criticized for suggesting the firefighters suffering the effects of smoke inhalation from the World Trade Center terrorist attacks to give up their medication as part of a 'purification rundown' no-expense-spared by his Church of Scientology elders.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Tom-Cruise-s-9-11-Comments-And-The-Scientology-Cure-14989.shtml

Still giving out medical advice. Support of that quackery at tonight's event will cost you $6,250 – but as you'll also get "face time" with Cruise himself, your particular feelings about the healing properties of cooking oil probably shouldn't have to enter into it.http://www.cinematical.com/2005/12/14/tom-cruise-to-rub-oil-on-firefighters-or-something/

Their stupid cure is offered free to the firefighters, but costs way more than their current meds to regular folks, I am sure regular meds are less than four figures, which is what the rubdown reportedly costs. I guess that is why they are charging four figures to go see idiot cruise in support of this treatment towards firefighters.

Frick frick frick frick....

*gnashes teeth*

[TruthSeeker1234]

Is this what you believe Truthseeker?

Secret Conspiracy meeting:
Mr X: I have a plan to give us a reason to start a war in the middle east.
Mr Y: Let's hear it
Mr X: Our intelligence indicates that Osama Bin Ladin is planning to hijack multiple commercial airliners and send them into the Pentagon, the White House, and both WTC buildings.
Mr Y: WHAT THE... When did you...
Mr X: Hear me out. Allowing these events to take place won't be enough to convince the American civilians that we should develop a military response.
Mr Y: really?
Mr X: For effect, we must plant explosives in the WTC buildings and bring them down to ensure more death, because the shock of hijacked commercial jets flying into our government buildings and our financial base won't be enough. We need more.
Mr Y: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: Yes sir, I've done the research, and it seems like we'll need that extra punch to sway the public.
Mr Y: Well, let's not allow the plane to hit the pentagon, my friends work there.
Mr X; NO SIR. The pentagon must be targeted and hit. Otherwise, the public wont let us wage war in the middle east.
Mr Y: BRILLIANT!
Mr X: BRILLIANT!


This is, like a modified LIHOP. No, I find LIHOP ridiculous. Rely on 19 who to do what? Never.

[Eos of the Eons]

Please explain to me what you think is causing the concrete to become pulverized into fine powder, and then ejected outwards away from the direction of the falling top.

Stop being such a maroon. Take some concrete building with a steel skeleton, now smash a hole in it with a plane going a bazzillion kms per hour. Then leave a hot hot fire smoldering in the middle of the hole of it for hours from the plane's exploding debris and jet fuel. Now, when the top starts to fall into the bottom because of melting steel, burning bits of building, and continues on down towards the ground as a result of the scenario, do observe the all the concrete smashing to powder on it's way into the lower floors and on to the ground. Do you really expect that some of that pulverized concrete won't fly up with all that force?

I have no idea why your ignorant brain is unable to comprehend why some of the concrete would be smashed to powder in this process, and why it couldn't be ejected outwards into the air with all that going on, but that is not my problem.

[Enlightenment]

This is, like a modified LIHOP. No, I find LIHOP ridiculous. Rely on 19 who to do what? Never.

Ok, then what DO you believe? What is the big picture here? Why would we blow up those buildings? What is the goal?

If you're going to accuse the government of being responsible for 9/11, then you need to offer your reasons.

I'm ready.

[uk_dave]

Seriously, Eos. You posted a picture of the SouthTower. The top 30 floors or so are tipping away from us, toward the south. Large clouds of dense dust and debris are being ejected toward us and to the right, that is, to the north. That is the exact opposite direction from the way the top part of the building is falling.

Have you never snapped a stick? What happens?

Stop expecting materials to behave the way YOU imagine they should behave.

Concrete shatters very easily. It has great compressive strength but very little tensile strength unless it is reinforced with steel.

Steel has very good tensile strength, but when it fails it does does rapidly....almost explosively

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzJ4YLbMF-Y

If the wtc columns are being pulled in one direction the mechanical fixings will be stressed until they fail rapidly, the rotation of the column causing the lower portion to move in the opposite direction to the upper portion.

Given that the columns were connected at floor level to the floor trusses, this movement of the columns would cause the connection with the floor trusses to fail, at the same time ejecting material in the direction of the column motion.

So, now you have two tasks:

1. Snap a twig
2. Have a sheet of glass dropped on your head

Preferably in that order.

[Gravy]

So, now you have two tasks:

1. Snap a twig
2. Have a sheet of glass dropped on your head

Preferably in that order.I vote for the opposite order. Why ruin a perfectly good twig?

[LashL]

Ok, then what DO you believe? What is the big picture here? Why would we blow up those buildings? What is the goal?

If you're going to accuse the government of being responsible for 9/11, then you need to offer your reasons.

I'm ready.

Welcome to the forum, Enlightenment.

And good luck in getting a coherent or meaningful response from Troofy1234 to your legitimate question.

Her only point here is to start BS threads repeatedly so that she can restate all the same old arguments that she made before which were thoroughly demolished (with no pre-planted explosives required) on her prior threads.

She'll also change the subject repeatedly, won't answer straightforward questions with a straightforward answer - let alone a defensible one, will ask BS questions in response to legitimate questions, will never, ever provide any legitimate evidence to back up her claims, and she won't educate herself sufficiently to even begin to try to understand the facts and evidence.

She just spouts CT nonsense like so much projectile vomit.

Over and over and over and over and over again, without ever demonstrating even the slightest capacity to comprehend facts, evidence, or science.

[Horatius]

So, that wold be no "destroying" for poor little old me?

For someone who keeps begging for proof and expanations, you're sure doing a great job of ignoring mine.

Has it occurred to you that this is why no one else will bother to jump when you command it?

Maybe if you showed some willingness to actually address a real argument in a real manner, other people would be more forthcoming.

But I won't hold my breath.

[Regnad Kcin]

Total science buff here.You look good in your little straw hat. (http://home.earthlink.net/~theseeker3/pics/tooter.gif)

I am a skeptic in the tradition of the Amazing Randi. Randi became famous as a magician who explained how his tricks did not violate physics.

9/11 was a trick.Drizzle, drazzle, drazzle, drone. Time for this one to go home.

[TruthSeeker1234]

As a reminder of how divorced from reality this troll is, this is the photo he uses to show "no piles."

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image129.jpg


Nope, no pile here. Nosiree. Move on. Nothing to see here, especially no "nonmetallic" material.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453c3ffb52e3e.jpg





Correct, no significant pile in the second picture. There is no macroscopic concrete, just a pile of powder. There is shredded steel. This represents, what, 1/10,000 of the material in the towers? Something like that. Observe the picture in the top link. THe twin towers were 7 times bigger than the black banker's trust building in the foreground. You cannot tell me that if these two towers simply "fell down" that they would leave this type of debris.

No, visible from the arial shot would be two buildings. There would be floors stacked up. Core columns would stick up. Even with zero air, all the material compacted together would be on the order of 8 stories tall, by 200 ft x 200 ft, times two towers.

There would be desks, and file cabinets.

We don't see anything like that.Even if the concrete somehow disintegrated, the steel floor pans would be stacked up. THere is simply no mechanism in your gravity collapse to explain the disintegration of the towers. So you rely on closeups of the mounds of dust, which only further confirm that the buildings were blown to kingdom come.

[Bell]

Send that email to Randi yet? Here's his e-mail address again:

randi@randi.org

[Shrinker]

There would be desks, and file cabinets.


So, Mr Collapsing Buildings Expert, would the surviving desks be the ones that fell 110 storeys or the ones that had 110 storeys falling onto them? Or maybe the ones that had 55 storeys falling onto them, then fell 55 storeys, then had the 55 stories hitting them again?

[Loss Leader]

You cannot tell me that if these two towers simply "fell down" that they would leave this type of debris.

Why not? All you are doing is looking at pictures and speculating with no knowledge of construction, engineering, or demolition. How are your assertions based on insufficient evidence any better or worse than anybody else's assertions based on the same insufficient evidence?

[realitybites]

So, Mr Collapsing Buildings Expert, would the surviving desks be the ones that fell 110 storeys or the ones that had 110 storeys falling onto them? Or maybe the ones that had 55 storeys falling onto them, then fell 55 storeys, then had the 55 stories hitting them again?
Uhhhh..... "C"!

No, wait. "B". Yeah, definately "B".

Of course maybe it's "A"....

Ya' know what, they say to always go with you're gut if you're not sure, so I'm going back to "C".

[twinstead]

Uhhhh..... "C"!

No, wait. "B". Yeah, definately "B".

Of course maybe it's "A"....

Ya' know what, they say to always go with you're gut if you're not sure, so I'm going back to "C".

Besides, cookies start with "C"...

[Belz...]

Correct, no significant pile in the second picture. There is no macroscopic concrete, just a pile of powder.

I've seen a lot of pictures with big chunks of concrete in the debris pile. Might want to change your story, here.

[Horatius]

I've seen a lot of pictures with big chunks of concrete in the debris pile. Might want to change your story, here.

He won't until you show him those pictures. And none of that math stuff, he doesn't like it, and will just ingore you. And then he still won't change his story. Except to make the percentge of surviving material even smaller.

I know from personal experience.

[Horatius]

Even with zero air, all the material compacted together would be on the order of 8 stories tall, by 200 ft x 200 ft, times two towers.

And did you miss the part where Brainache said:

Since when is a six storey high pile of mashed up concrete and steel a crater?

And have you forgotten that the Towers had levels below ground? So, there you go, 6 stories above ground, a few below, and you've got your 8 stories tall.

Now if we can just get you over your ridiculous assertion that there should be "acre-sized" pieces of floor left, we're there.

[beachnut]

You see, in the above picture, the twin towers appear to have been blown to kingdom come. The black building in the foreground is Banker's Trust, the twin towers together were about 7x as large Banker's Trust. Yet we see not a single floor assembly, none of the core, just shredded steel and dust, a smoldering bomb crater where WTC1 had stood.

Belief that the twin towers "fell down" or "collapsed" is just utterly divorced from reality. Gentleman, ladies, the only rational discussion at this point is what sort of explosives did this.

so you ignore the fact each WTC had energy stored in them due to gravity, and that energy in each tower was equal to 248 tons of TNT?

therefore if the WTC area looks as if it was bombed out, the very falling of the towers would be like 2000 500 pound bombs from a b-52 bombing all day long,

2000 500 pound bombs

or use 500 2000 pound bombs,

you end up with 5 stories of ruble

bet you ignore the impact energy too, a ton of TNT

bet you ignore the fuel energy too, 315 tons of TNT equal energy

so it would be fair to ignore your theory since you have zero proof

proof would be nice, but next time do not ignore the energy already there

you are just joking right?

[defaultdotxbe]

And did you miss the part where Brainache said:



And have you forgotten that the Towers had levels below ground? So, there you go, 6 stories above ground, a few below, and you've got your 8 stories tall.

Now if we can just get you over your ridiculous assertion that there should be "acre-sized" pieces of floor left, we're there.
actually the WTC had 7 stories underground, assuming they were all crushed as well thats 13 stories of rubble (although i think the bottom 3-4 levels were relatively intact)

[Horatius]

actually the WTC had 7 stories underground, assuming they were all crushed as well thats 13 stories of rubble (although i think the bottom 3-4 levels were relatively intact)

Yeah, but that gets us back into that whole "math" and "facts" stuff, and we know how much BS hates that....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Correct, no significant pile in the second picture. There is no macroscopic concrete, just a pile of powder. There is shredded steel. This represents, what, 1/10,000 of the material in the towers? Something like that. Observe the picture in the top link. THe twin towers were 7 times bigger than the black banker's trust building in the foreground. You cannot tell me that if these two towers simply "fell down" that they would leave this type of debris.

No, visible from the arial shot would be two buildings. There would be floors stacked up. Core columns would stick up. Even with zero air, all the material compacted together would be on the order of 8 stories tall, by 200 ft x 200 ft, times two towers.

There would be desks, and file cabinets.

We don't see anything like that.Even if the concrete somehow disintegrated, the steel floor pans would be stacked up. THere is simply no mechanism in your gravity collapse to explain the disintegration of the towers. So you rely on closeups of the mounds of dust, which only further confirm that the buildings were blown to kingdom come.

What evidence can you provide to substantiate your claims that does not rely on subjective interpretation?

[DavidJames]

Troll1234 Looks at this picture

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453c3ffb52e3e.jpg

and declares it:
just a pile of powder.
I called him a troll early on in this thread, this is why.

[Garb]

Correct, no significant pile in the second picture. There is no macroscopic concrete, just a pile of powder. There is shredded steel.

Yeah, you must be blind if you look at that picture and declare it a pile of rubble.

[jujigatami]

I'd like to see anyone invent a 9/11 ct that hasn't already been seriously proposed by some nutter somewhere. I don't think it can be done.


I did on another post, I forgot which one though.

You see, it was all a plot by the airlines. They are run by Joos, and staged 9/11 in order to get the government to provide them with 15 billion dollars in bailouts.

It was remarkeably easy for them to install remote controls in their own planes, reroute passengers on other planes to cleveland etc., and fake all manifests.

They even tried to get more bailouts by crashing AA587 in Nov of 2001 in Brooklyn.

As evidence, I point out that American Airlines is based in Houston. Home of GHW Bush, and Houston is in Texas where GWB was governor.

[Gravy]

Correct, no significant pile in the second picture. There is no macroscopic concrete, just a pile of powder.The next photo is an enlargement of the one in which you say there is no "macroscopic" concrete. I've never seen a "total science buff" who had no idea which end of the microscope to look through.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d0a41b645d.jpg

More "microscopic" concrete at the WTC:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce917de76c.jpg

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce91816fe3.jpg


A nanobot at work amidst the microscopic concrete:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce91847140.jpg

Nanobots at Fresh Kills:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d12dbb0b9d.jpg


Even with zero air, all the material compacted together would be on the order of 8 stories tall, by 200 ft x 200 ft, times two towers. Now take into account the 7-story basement, and tell us how high above ground the 8 stories of debris should be.

There would be desks, and file cabinets. We don't see anything like that.Your problem is that you want intact desks and file cabinets. Next you'll be demanding to see filing clerks at work. Get a grip on reality, troll: WTC file cabinet (http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=40)

Even if the concrete somehow disintegrated, the steel floor pans would be stacked up. THere is simply no mechanism in your gravity collapse to explain the disintegration of the towers.Below is a floor truss, which supported one side of a thin sectional floor pan. Please explain why we should see intact floor pans.

Then explain how, if the concrete resting on this truss was "blown to kingdom come," the truss was not.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d142c37768.jpg


TS1234, we are NOT enjoying watching you skip merrily down the road to Christopheraville. If you cannot refrain from lying about 9/11, you should seek professional mental health care.

[realitybites]

Please explain to me what you think is causing the concrete to become pulverized into fine powder, and then ejected outwards away from the direction of the falling top.
Please explain to me how you know that the concrete is the only substance in the towers that could turn into a fine powder?

Were all of the floors just open spaces? No drywall? No sheetrock? People had to hang pictures of their kids right on the steel columns?

Use you're [rule8]ing God-given brain for just 2 seconds.

[Regnad Kcin]

TS1234, we are NOT enjoying watching you skip merrily down the road to Christopheraville.Christopheraville 1 Mile

Christopheraville 1/2 Mile

Christopheraville 1/4 Mile

Christopheraville 1/8 Mile

Christopheraville 1/16 Mile

Christopheraville 1/32 Mile

Christopheraville 1/64 Mile

Christopheraville 1/128 Mile

Christopheraville 1/256 Mile

Christopheraville 1/512 Mile

Christopheraville 1/1024 Mile

[realitybites]

TS1234, we are NOT enjoying watching you skip merrily down the road to Christopheraville.
What are you talkin' about Gravy? He's not skippin' there. He's the friggin' mayor!

He'll take a limo thankyouverymuch.

[Garb]

What are you talkin' about Gravy? He's not skippin' there. He's the friggin' mayor!

He'll take a limo thankyouverymuch.

Actually Chriswhatshisface is the mayor.

Now truthseekerwhatshisface is the Sheriff.

[Horatius]

Please explain to me what you think is causing the concrete to become pulverized into fine powder, and then ejected outwards away from the direction of the falling top.

You know, in thinking about this comment, I've realized that truthinessseeker1234 has probably never in his life done any sort of physical labour, particularly with large sheets of plywood.

TS: homework time. Go out, buy a large sheet of plywood. Drop it from about waist height on to a dusty surface. Please report back on which directions the dust moves.

I'll give you a hint (since I'm pretty sure you'll never actually do this): The dust will tend to blow out in all directions, regardless of what angle the plywood falls at. The air under the wood will move in the path of least resistance, which means almost any direction away from the center. That's just what happens when large area flat things fall down.

Do the same thing with a large piece of concrete, and it will shatter when in lands, more often than not.

So, Truthiness, have you ever done any real work? Even as a hobby? I'd be willing to bet my late Grandfather the carpenter would have a better grasp on what this thing would look like than you, just from years of having to work with actual physical things. Gramps was a smart guy.

[Horatius]

Christopheraville 1 Mile
Christopheraville 1/2 Mile
Christopheraville 1/4 Mile
Christopheraville 1/8 Mile
Christopheraville 1/16 Mile
Christopheraville 1/32 Mile
Christopheraville 1/64 Mile
Christopheraville 1/128 Mile
Christopheraville 1/256 Mile
Christopheraville 1/512 Mile
Christopheraville 1/1024 Mile

What is this, Zeno's Christophera?

[DavidJames]

What is this, Zeno's Christophera?
Just out for a spin on the Antelope Freeway.

http://www.firesigntheatre.com/albums/album.php?album=hcyb

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

The next photo is an enlargement of the one in which you say there is no "macroscopic" concrete. I've never seen a "total science buff" who had no idea which end of the microscope to look through.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d0a41b645d.jpg

More "microscopic" concrete at the WTC:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce917de76c.jpg

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce91816fe3.jpg


A nanobot at work amidst the microscopic concrete:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790452ce91847140.jpg

Nanobots at Fresh Kills:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d12dbb0b9d.jpg


Now take into account the 7-story basement, and tell us how high above ground the 8 stories of debris should be.

Your problem is that you want intact desks and file cabinets. Next you'll be demanding to see filing clerks at work. Get a grip on reality, troll: WTC file cabinet (http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=40)

Below is a floor truss, which supported one side of a thin sectional floor pan. Please explain why we should see intact floor pans.

Then explain how, if the concrete resting on this truss was "blown to kingdom come," the truss was not.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/8790453d142c37768.jpg


TS1234, we are NOT enjoying watching you skip merrily down the road to Christopheraville. If you cannot refrain from lying about 9/11, you should seek professional mental health care.
Man, this thread is just depressing.

It's depressing to see how tightly the deluded can hold on to what they want to believe. One, low res picture, which looks like the site after much of the large rubble has been cleared...

It's depressing to know that with all of these pictures showing pile after pile of steel, pile after pile of non-pulverized concrete, they're not going to make a damn bit of difference in the minds of the CTers.

It's depressing to know that they made their minds up before September 11th even happened.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Thank you for the pictures, I was looking for that one with the guys climbing the pile with the flag at the top. Yes, there is some macroscopic concrete in that one. I would say, generously, it represents 1/2000th of the total. I will include it in my rubble hunt.

Yes, 9/11 studies can be depressing.

[Garb]

Thank you for the pictures, I was looking for that one with the guys climbing the pile with the flag at the top. Yes, there is some macroscopic concrete in that one. I would say, generously, it represents 1/2000th of the total. I will include it in my rubble hunt.

Yes, 9/11 studies can be depressing.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[TruthSeeker1234]

Y
Do the same thing with a large piece of concrete, and it will shatter when in lands, more often than not.


Yes, it will shatter. Correct. I'm looking for all that shattered concrete. It's not there. It turned into powder and was expelled across all of lower Manhattan before it ever had a chance to hit the ground and shatter.

[Garb]

Yes, it will shatter. Correct. I'm looking for all that shattered concrete. It's not there. It turned into powder and was expelled across all of lower Manhattan before it ever had a chance to hit the ground and shatter.

Are you saying that none of the tower hit each other before hitting the ground?

Isn't it possible that's where the concrete came into contact with another force?

[defaultdotxbe]

Yes, it will shatter. Correct. I'm looking for all that shattered concrete. It's not there. It turned into powder and was expelled across all of lower Manhattan before it ever had a chance to hit the ground and shatter.
at least you arent lookign for intact floor slabs anymore, your learning

[beachnut]

Seriously, acceleration downward on the near side, there is no force (F=ma).

Please explain to me what you think is causing the concrete to become pulverized into fine powder, and then ejected outwards away from the direction of the falling top.

the building itself is the culprit, the building falling is releasing energy.

the energy is equal to 248 tons of TNT; you know 1000 500 pound bombs. as in like the energy of 1000 five-hundred pound bombs

and the building failing is releasing energy, that energy is crushing wallboard (dust), crushing the light weight concrete floors (dust), and anything else that makes dust.

the building is doing it, as the building falls it releases energy, it is equal to 248 tons of TNT, it is enormous amount of energy, it was at rest until the building fell. You can calculate this energy for yourself. E=mgh or something, you can do it, m=mass, g=gravity, h=height, you need to look it up if I am wrong, the 248 tons of TNT energy is real close, unless you have some better numbers

so after a big impact (equal to a ton of TNT) and a big fire started with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel (equal in energy to 315 tons of TNT), ….

what do you think destroyed the WTC?

[Horatius]

Yes, it will shatter. Correct. I'm looking for all that shattered concrete. It's not there. It turned into powder and was expelled across all of lower Manhattan before it ever had a chance to hit the ground and shatter.

Well, you didn't address any of the other issues I brought up, but how exactly do you accord this with your earlier statement:

As far as "similar pieces of debris", I'm looking for acre-sized slabs, with a rectangular hole, like giant square donuts, 220 of them. Thus far I have found zero.

So what are we looking for? How many pictures with pieces of concrete in them will convince you your 1/10th of 1% "generous estimate" is wrong? Clearly pictures are the only thing you will accept, as you have yet to discuss my earlier calculations in any detail.

Next, tell us why you expect anyone to have taken pictures of big piles of concrete and steel. I can't imagine why anyone would have.

There are other things I'd like you to explain, but since you seem to have trouble answering more thanone thing at a time, I'll stop now.

[apathoid]

My God, BS is still on about microscopic concrete, mushroom clouds and pyroclastic flows. I guess nothing has sunk in, and he still has no idea what the explosives do in conventional building demolitions(Hint for BS1+2=4: Its not to blow the concrete and steel to "Kingdom Come". Its to cut the support columns.) or what he is implying by pointing out his mushroom cloud(apparently he's not a mini-nuke supporter).

They recently destroyed the Control Tower here in ATL. That structure is like 90% concrete. It was interesting because they blew the base first and the tower fell over sideways. Some of the concrete was turned to dust by the explosives. The rest was obliterated when it hit the ground. The dust cloud was friggin huge!

[gmanontario]

Thank you for the pictures, I was looking for that one with the guys climbing the pile with the flag at the top. Yes, there is some macroscopic concrete in that one. I would say, generously, it represents 1/2000th of the total. I will include it in my rubble hunt.

Yes, 9/11 studies can be depressing.

Here, let me give you a hand with that hunt...
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/2458453d43ed1bac2.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2177)

[Horatius]

What do you think destroyed the WTC?

So far we've narrowed his choices down to:

What's taking so long? The explosives made no bang, made no flash, made no shockwave, broke no windows, made no fireball, left no residues, required no detonators, required no wiring, were flameproof, were detonated with split second precision, could be installed without anyone noticing, and had a destructive power greater than 300 tonnes of TNT. They were undetectable before, after or during detonation. How many candidates can there be?

or a Star Wars Beam Weapon (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66444).

It's left as an exercise for the student to determine which is more improbable.

[gumboot]

So far we've narrowed his choices down to:



or a Star Wars Beam Weapon (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66444).

It's left as an exercise for the student to determine which is more improbable.


So you're saying George Lucas did it? Was it to spite Steven Spielberg (who is a Jew)?

-Gumboot

[Anti-sophist]

THe downward acceleration is on the other side. Since there is no acceleration downward on the near side, there is no force (F=ma).


False. There is no NET force. There are still plenty of forces.

[LashL]

You might even find some more of that non-existent concrete in some of these photos.

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/6036.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5456.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5392.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4153.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5457.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/3997.jpg