School? Naaaaaaaaa...

[zenith-nadir]

Ok it's a Middle East Thread. Run away screaming... then return to the "Bush is _______", and the "Iraq is _________" threads. ;)

Sun Oct 22, 5:11 PM ET (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061022/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_school_s_out_1)

RAMALLAH, West Bank - Eighth-grader Thaer Shweikiyeh, who dreams of being a doctor one day, was excited about going back to school after the summer vacation. Instead, he's been selling onions in the local farmers' market for the past two months, and his new school bag remains unused.

Thaer is one of 800,000 Palestinian students locked out by an open-ended teachers' strike, called over the Hamas-led government's failure to pay salaries to 165,000 civil servants since it came to power in March.

Can't pay salaries to civil servants, can't form a unity government, can't stop terrorists from firing Qassams at Israel, can't send the kids to school, won't recognize Israel, won't renounce terrorism, won't release the Israeli hostage...

Oct. 23, 2006 10:34 (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193500293&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh implored Palestinians facing increasing poverty and hardship to be patient, in an impassioned speech on Monday marking the start of the Eid al-Fitr holiday.

"I know there are many homes living in pain, and some people shed tears last night because they had no money to give in charity, and could not find food for their children's mouths," Haniyeh told a somber crowd.

"If any other people had faced the siege, hardship and destruction you faced, they would have raised the white flag," Haniyeh said, as children searched through garbage piles for dropped sweets.

More proof that there are many many Palestinians - Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh included - who hate Israel more than they love their children.

And while Haniyeh is blowing smoke up Palestinian butts to mark the start of the Eid al-Fitr...

Sunday, 22 October 2006, 12:13 GMT (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6074310.stm)

Gunmen in the Gaza Strip have shot dead a well-known Fatah militant during a clash at the Bureij refugee camp.

Mohammed Shahadeh, leader of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades in the camp, was shot outside his home, officials say.

Fatah officials blamed Hamas for the killing - the latest in the current stand-off between the two Palestinian rivals that has left about 20 dead. The leader of an internationally-recognized terrorist organization - the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - was shot outside his home by the other internationally-recognized terrorist organization - Hamas.

Maybe he - the "leader" of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - would have been safer in an Israeli jail? Oh well,... we'll never know now.

[Darat]

(ETA: Not as admin)

What do you wish to discuss - what is it you wish us to analysis using our mighty powers of scepticism and critical thinking?

(Seriously - this is meant to be a discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold and I just don't see this as being anything more then a "look told you the Palestinians are bad".)

[zenith-nadir]

(ETA: Not as admin)

What do you wish to discuss - what is it you wish us to analysis using our mighty powers of scepticism and critical thinking?

(Seriously - this is meant to be a discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold and I just don't see this as being anything more then a "look told you the Palestinians are bad".)You could discuss anything about the events I posted about;

No school so far this year for Palestinian children.
The outright refusal of the Palestinian Authority to abide by their previous international obligations.
The continued murders of Fatah and Hamas leaders by none other than Fatah and Hamas.
The refusal by Hamas to release the Israeli hostage.
Haniyeh making wild promises to the Palestinians like Arafraud did.
The refusal to form a Palestinian unity government.
The continued Palestinian violence and Qassam rockets from unoccupied Gaza.
How can Israel make peace with a society that can't even be peaceful with itself?
There are many possibilities to discuss. Yet all I hear is:

I just don't see this as being anything more then a "look told you the Palestinians are bad"

For years Darat the most common myths were "the occupation forces Palestinians to ______________," or "Israeli checkpoints forces Palestinians to ______________," or Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount forced Palestinians to ______________," or Likud's policies forces Palestinians to ______________."

Well there is no more occupation in Gaza, there are no more checkpoints in Gaza, there is no more Sharon, there is no more Likud. Yet the one constant remains. Palestinian violence, and the violent rejectionist ideology of Hamas, Al Aqsa, the Popular Resistance Committees and Islamic Jihad.

I just hope people are starting to see that the Emperor has no clothes, this violence and rejectionist ideology supercedes even the welfare of Palestinian children, and the future of the Palestinian state.

This will be my last post at JREF.

[Zep]

I don't see how your last sentence ties into anything you have posted here.

[Zep]

I was going to say that, in face of the issues before them as you outlined, perhaps the Palestinians themselves will move to replace both groups with more moderate leadership which can deal with them sensibly. I also imagine that they are just as sick as any one of us of the killings of their own by their own.

[Darat]

You could discuss anything about the events I posted about;


Just as a note - you made quite a few edits to your post after I posted my comment.

I know what I could discuss but I didn't know what you wanted to discuss from your original version of the opening post.

Your edits to your opening post do now make it clearer what direction you wanted a discussion to proceed in and I'm not adverse to people just putting up an interesting news article - but I think that should be when it is a news worthy event in its own right. (That's just a personal opinion.)


...snip...

For years Darat the most common myths were "the occupation forces Palestinians to ______________," or "Israeli checkpoints forces Palestinians to ______________," or Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount forced Palestinians to ______________," or Likud's policies forces Palestinians to ______________."


And there is some truth in some of those types of claims - to claim otherwise is to try and deny reality i.e. that Israeli actions have no effect.

...snip...

I just hope people are starting to see that the Emperor has no clothes, this violence and rejectionist ideology supercedes even the welfare of Palestinian children, and the future of the Palestinian state.


There is a slight contradiction in what you say but I think I get your over all meaning and I am sure that many many people the world over just despair at the senseless stupidity and brutality of elected leaders of the Palestinians.


This will be my last post at JREF.

You've left before - hopefully you will again return.

[Dr Adequate]

This will be my last post at JREF.

Ding dong, the witch is dead!
:dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin: :dc_biggrin:

[webfusion]

Apparently, many mothers of the palestinians who are suffering (suffering without work, suffering without school, suffering without food or sweets, suffering without hope) are quite pleased and see their family sacrifices as worthwhile. They are deluded.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D231006/Tamoun231006AP.jpg
(photo link) ==== caption:
Relatives of a Palestinian gunman killed by the IDF mourning during his funeral in the northern West Bank village of Tamun near Jenin on Monday. (AP)

Israel's actions are indeed having an effect --- putting the palestinians on the losing end of the conflict. But for a large percentage of palestinians, they are perfectly satisfied to continue to be the losers.

At least seven Palestinians were killed in a clash between armed militants and Israel Defense Forces soldiers in the northern Gaza Strip on Monday.

The actual headline of this story was only mentioned in paragraph # 3 of the Ha'aretz article:
The target of the IDF operation appeared to be Ata Shindari, who led the Popular Resistance Committee's rocket-launching operations branch. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/778307.html)

Good ridddance.

(((NOTE: Dr Adequate, men like Ata Shindari deserve your dancing smileys -- not men like Zenith-Nadir, and you should be ashamed of yourself. )))

[shemp]

(ETA: Not as admin)

What do you wish to discuss - what is it you wish us to analysis using our mighty powers of scepticism and critical thinking?

(Seriously - this is meant to be a discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold and I just don't see this as being anything more then a "look told you the Palestinians are bad".)

This is rich! If every post that was just links to articles that support a particluar view was removed from this forum, there'd be nothing here but crickets chirping. Hell, almost every thread I start in PCESI goes like this:

1. Smart-ass headline.

2. Link.

3. Quote of only the most damaging part of link.

4. "Nyah Nyah! Republicans suck! Told ya so!"

So Darat, I don't see that you had anything of substance to add.

I'm not exactly thrilled to appear to be taking Zenith's side, and I disagree with a lot of what he posts, but I don't see why what he said is so out of line. And regardless of you starting your post with "(ETA: Not as admin)", your opinion sure sounds like it's coming from the admin in you. So if you want to chide people for their posting style, maybe you should chide me too, and about 75% of the other people who post here. That would probably take so much time you'd get fired from your day job.

Sorry, but your post really got under my skin.

[casebro]

Perhaps the Palestinians ought to wise up and do what so many northern European countries did after the middle ages. Import a Jewish middle class to run their countries. Today, just like back then, they are educated, intelligent, industrious . Just what's needed for civil servants. And only one truce and a fence away.

[Crossbow]

...snipped for brevity

This will be my last post at JREF.

Wow!

Christmas has come early this year!

:)

[shemp]

Wow!

Christmas has come early this year!

:)

He'll be back. They all come back.

[Darat]

...snip...

Sorry, but your post really got under my skin.


I've heard of a thin skin but if you've got a post under your skin I think you need urgently to seek medical advice.

My first post was in response to ZD's unedited post - he edited it after (or whilst) I was responding - his edit gave at least a hint then of what his point was. But I stand by what I posted i.e. this is meant to be a discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold.

[Tailgater]

I've heard of a thin skin but if you've got a post under your skin I think you need urgently to seek medical advice.

My first post was in response to ZD's unedited post - he edited it after (or whilst) I was responding - his edit gave at least a hint then of what his point was. But I stand by what I posted i.e. this is meant to be a discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold.

I second Shemp's post. Shemp nailed it, even if Zenith had a point for a discussion or not. Just looking through the first page of posts in this forum, there are plenty of pointless posts used as ammo for that posters personal or political agenda. You need to let it go or post the same way in other threads.

[LeFevre]

This will be my last post at JREF.

I don't blame the feeling you have. When the admin of the forum (but speaking as just himself mind you) questions your motives and half-ass chastises you about this being a, ". . . discussion forum not just a place for posting links to articles that support a particular political view you may hold and I just don't see this as being anything more then a "look told you the Palestinians are bad" I wouldn't want to wait untill those personal views are possibly expressed somehow with the admin hat on.


Darat's personal opinion on this subject got under my skin too Shemp, and also that he chose ZN to express this view as well instead of you Shemp or others.

[Darat]

To anyone I got under the skin of - tough; to anyone who doesn't understand that I have as much right as anyone else to express my own views and opinions here - tough.

[pipelineaudio]

Darat seems to distribute ribbing against all non-dhimmis pretty equally, but before you accuse him of bias, he gives it to claus readily enough

[The Fool]

This will be my last post at JREF.
again?