Does materialism deny an explanation for extrordinary mental activity?

[c4ts]

I remember what UCE said about how evidence for telepathy was ignored becasue of his idea of materialist philosophy. So, if something such as telepathy or telekinesis were confirmed to exist, would such a scenerio result? Does all paranormal psychic phenominon require the existence of thought without need of a brain? Is it really just an argument for the existence of the spirit in a quasi-religious sense?

[Yahweh]

As far as materialism and science has taken us, they say telepathy and other aspects of the paranormal do not exist.

Does all paranormal psychic phenominon require the existence of thought without need of a brain? Is it really just an argument for the existence of the spirit in a quasi-religious sense?

Thats an interesting philosophical question. I would assume the materialistic answer to that question is a short and simple "Yes"... unless I misunderstood the question (which I probably have because I've re-read it a few times and I think I'm missing part of it).

[Fade]

As far as materialism and science has taken us, they say telepathy and other aspects of the paranormal do not exist.

Science says no such thing.

Paranormal things aren't really falsifiable, so they are relegated to the category of "unlikely"

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Yahweh

As far as materialism and science has taken us, they say telepathy and other aspects of the paranormal do not exist.
That seems a little strong. There doesn't seem to be any good evidence of their existence, but that doesn't actually constitute proof that they don't exist. The fact that such things have never been demonstrated under controlled conditions casts doubt on their existence, but still falls short of 'proof' (an extremely rare commodity outside of mathematics).

Paranormal psychic phenomena seem to require only some means of transmission, some form of energy that we have not yet learned how to measure. Scientists the world over would be enthusiastically seeking such a source of energy if the likelihood of its existence was indicated by positive results from attempts to demonstrate such abilities.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Fade


Science says no such thing.

Paranormal things aren't really falsifiable, so they are relegated to the category of "unlikely"
Thats why I chose to use the words "do not exist" as opposed to "cannot exist". So until science shows us how to predict the future, play with pixies, and move small furry mammals using the thoughts in our heads then I think its safe to assume "does not exist" is just as valid as saying "unlikely to exist".

[Dymanic]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Thats why I chose to use the words "do not exist" as opposed to "cannot exist".
Whadda ya say, Fade, you buyin that? Should we let him off the hook?

[Fade]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Thats why I chose to use the words "do not exist" as opposed to "cannot exist". So until science shows us how to predict the future, play with pixies, and move small furry mammals using the thoughts in our heads then I think its safe to assume "does not exist" is just as valid as saying "unlikely to exist".

You're playing with words and losing. They mean two entirely different things.

Right now I am not drinking a soda.
Right now it is unlikely I am drinking a soda.

The first precludes existence. "Does not exist" is exactly the same as "can not exist" in the immediate sense.

[Yahzi]

Not necessarily. It is imaginable that there is another dimension with somewhat different physical rules accessible under certain circumstances. Action at a distance, violation of thermodynamics, even possibly anamolies of the time stream could concievably be accomplished, without violating the theory of consciousness being a product of materialism.

I say imaginable, because the evidence rules it out: but hey, maybe all those atomic measurements are wrong.

[Dancing David]

If the paranormal exists it can't violate TLOP, it could involve the shunting of energy and information but not violating TLOP.

If there were paranormal powers they would be spread through humanity due to the evolutionary advantage.

[Jet Grind]

Originally posted by c4ts
I remember what UCE said about how evidence for telepathy was ignored becasue of his idea of materialist philosophy. So, if something such as telepathy or telekinesis were confirmed to exist, would such a scenerio result? Does all paranormal psychic phenominon require the existence of thought without need of a brain? Is it really just an argument for the existence of the spirit in a quasi-religious sense?

Not really, if such things were confirmed to exist then they could have a material explanation. It would however be pretty strong evidence for an immaterial spirit.

[whitefork]

I think that if something like telekinesis is shown to exist, science would discover or postulate the means of propagation. It would probably be something like the old luminiferous ether. But there's nothing in principle, as far as I know, that makes the existence of brainwaves acting at a distance impossible. The point of mind powers is that if they exist, they do have measurable physical effects, isn't it? The spoon is bent....

Once the phenomenon is shown to exist, someone will start working on finding the explanation for it.

Or in other words, there is no extraordinary mental activity - if it exists, it's ordinary.

[evildave]

The more likely source of "mind powers" would be something we deliberately do to ourselves technologically. Like having a device implanted in our brains as infants.

Then we can just "think" in a certan way, and connect to another person. Visualise in a certain way, and make it visible to them. Share the dialog in our heads with others. Look up information by simply wondering about it.

Switch the channel on the holovision without finding the remote control. Close our eyes and control a machine through telepresense. Interface to new senses.

It's only a matter of reverse-engineering that meat machine in our heads and providing a new interface for it.

[Fade]

Like having a device implanted in our brains as infants.

I wrote a short story called the Techno-Path when I was younger about this. A few years later I saw the Locutus star trek episode. I see techno-telepathy as all too possible, assuming some researchers can figure out how to translate brain readings into coherent thoughts, and the other way around.

Then again, imagine the marketing going directly into your frontal lobe :mad:

[DialecticMaterialist]

Well materialism does not rule out the paranormal, only the supernatural. A materialist could, for example, beleive in flying saucers, the Lochness monster and bigfoot as long as he or she thought them material objects.

As for psychic phenomenon, perhaps a materialist could think them brain waves, or something to do with QM or string theory. How things are influenced by energy, magnetic forces or some literal connection.

So no mere materialism does not rule these things out. Science and Occam's Razor currently do though.

[Fade]

only the supernatural

I take issue with this.

Something that may be 'supernatural' to us now might not be supernatural to us in the future if we happen to stumble upon and explain it. Unless of course you mean those things that are forever going to be supernatural.

[DialecticMaterialist]

I'm saying what is actually supernatural not what appears to be supernatural. By that meaning they are composed partly or wholly of a different substance then what we normally consider physical/material.

[EdipisReks]

atoms follow TLOP. telepathy comes from the brain. the brain is made of of atoms, therefore, telepathy follows TLOP. is that a good impression, or did i use too many words?