No, Racial Profiling Doesn't Work... Riiiight.

[Genghis Pwn]

Here is the latest Al Qaeda terrorist nabbed in the United States. He was planning to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge and derail trains. Tell me this guy doesn't fit Ann Coulter's prediction that most of the terrorists are "suspicious-looking swarthy males" from the middle east. She was right, but she took a lot of heat for stating such a simple and obvious thing. National Review, a conservative magazine, squashed her column and banned her from its pages. In response Coulter blasted NR's editors as "girly-boys." lol.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030620/capt.1056088630.al_qaida_plea_lon804.jpg

lyman Faris, 34, of Columbus, Ohio is seen in a Department of Justice handout photo, in this image from video. Faris, an Ohio truck driver who met Osama bin Laden and admitted plots against trains and the Brooklyn Bridge, has pleaded guilty to felony charges and is cooperating in the investigation of al-Qaida, federal authorities said Thursday, June 19, 2003 in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va. (AP Photo)

As Coulter pointed out, America is not being attacked by "the Swedish bikini team." We know what these guys look like, and where they're from -- Arabs and muslims, mainly from the middle east. Sure, we need to be on the lookout for converted Muslim blacks, and we know Al Qaeda is now using women as operatives, but for the most part, airsport screeners, law enforcement and average Americans should be on the lookout for "suspicious-looking swarthy males".

I applaud the Department of Justice for its decision several days ago to allow racial profiling of terrorist suspects.


"The racial profiling guidance, therefore, recognizes that race and ethnicity may be used in terrorist identification," the Justice Department said in a statement.

"Federal law enforcement officers who are protecting national security or preventing catastrophic events (as well as airport security screeners) may consider race, ethnicity and other relevant factors to the extend permitted by our laws and the Constitution," the guidelines said.


One small triumph for Common Sense in a sea of disgraceful Political Correctness.

[BillyTK]

You also need to be on the look-out for "converted Muslim whites" like "shoe bomber" Richard Reid; and don't forget the "Bali Bombers"... In fact, just to be on the safe side, be on the look-out for anyone who's male, including yourself. You've been in Afghanistan recently, haven't you? :eek:

[Genghis Pwn]

Sorry, but this guy looks middle-eastern to me and fits the pattern perfectly.

http://www.highvolumemedia.com/thebullhorn/bullhorn_images/People/RajaTariq.jpg

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
Sorry, but this guy looks middle-eastern to me and fits the pattern perfectly.

http://www.highvolumemedia.com/thebullhorn/bullhorn_images/People/RajaTariq.jpg

So anyone with a tan and a beard then?

[Jon_in_london]

How to spot a terrorist! (http://bettybowers.com/fbi.html)

[Genghis Pwn]

Uh-oh... here come the PC Crusaders. I couldn't have predicted this.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
Uh-oh... here come the PC Crusaders. I couldn't have predicted this.

Jon's a pc crusader?

And isn't this the response you wanted? This is a skeptic's forum, you know!

[Ian Osborne]

Genghis, define 'terrorist'.

[Jon_in_london]

Of course, one might argue that Jesus WAS a terrorist..............

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Of course, one might argue that Jesus WAS a terrorist..............
Tan: check
Dark hair: check
Beardy: check
Lived in Arabland: check

You don't need to argue, the evidence alone convicts him!

[Lothian]

Ghengis, you have a theory. You need to test it.

Lets see how your critical skills have improved since you have been here.

Can you think of a protocol for a test which would prove or disprove your theory.

[Ed]

"Yes officer, I have a description of who you should be looking for"

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/01/photos/hijackers1.jpg http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/01/photos/hijackers2.jpg http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/01/photos/hijackers3.jpg http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/01/photos/hijackers4.jpg

[Genghis Pwn]

My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

So what do you do? How do you check if a person who matches your racial profile is a terrorist? Give 'em a questionnaire and hope they answer truthfully?

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand? Ghengis, I don’t think it is difficult to understand, but feel free to correct me if I have it wrong.

In order to prevent terrorism every arab and middle-eastern looking man in and entering the United States should be deemed a likely terrorist. Therefore they should be subject to intensive investigation to acertain whether they are a danger to the nation.

My concern is that this strategy will result in such a massive waste of time and money that legitimate methods would suffer. But then you weren’t being serious were you.

[Doubt]

The moment we start relying on racial profiling is the moment the terrorists start making use of hair dye and colored contact lenses. Skin bleaching would soon follow.

Also plastic surgery could be used to alter appearances to make people look as if they are from the Far East. The Israelis did the opposite trick to place Asian Jews in Egypt before the six day war.

The moment we try the “easy” solution we become that much more predictable. That predictability will be exploited. It is not about being PC.

[The Fool]

I wonder if there is a profile for forum trolls? I seem to see a pattern of thread topics forming.

The commonly accepted profile for serial killers is white males 18-32yo...Maybe we should investigate all people fitting this dangerous sounding profile.

Ever wondered if you fit the profile of a serial killer?...try this quick quiz.

http://www.deathrowbook.com/sertest.htm

I scored 11 so don't ever PM me your home address!! But don't worry, I have not killed for weeks.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by The Fool
I scored 11 so don't ever PM me your home address!! But don't worry, I have not killed for weeks.

That's more than enough reason to worry! ;) Is your real name Patrick? Do you listen to Huey Lewis and the News? :D

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

Lol...It reminds me of those charts on kids rides at fairgrounds "If you are taller than this line you can ride" We could have 2 doors at airports and a sign that says "If you are darker than this sign please take the left door" yep, that should fix things.

The US is currently holding an Australian Citizen a Gitmo without charge or trial under American, Australian or any other law I can think of...Damned if he's not as white as a sheet...maybe he should be released.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by BillyTK


That's more than enough reason to worry! ;) Is your real name Patrick? Do you listen to Huey Lewis and the News? :D
Nope...Just spending a quiet night posting on Jref and strangling chickens ;)

[Mike B.]

Hey wasn't the shoe guy originally from Sri Lanka?

That would make him South Asian, right?

Or is it goldberg, iceberg, what is the difference? ;)

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by Ed
"Yes officer, I have a description of who you should be looking for"


Row 3, column 2 - he could be from Iowa...maybe...

[crackmonkey]

Of course, there will be a few terrorists who don't fit the profile, but the vast majority we've seen fit it perfectly. Who are the adherents to the interpretation of Islam that Al-Qaeda supports? Saudis, Pakistanis, Afghans - people from mideastern Islamic nations. If these people get extra scrutiny because they are more likely to be terrorists than a grandmother from Nebraska, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Mike B.
Hey wasn't the shoe guy originally from Sri Lanka?
Nope, he was born in Britain.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Of course, there will be a few terrorists who don't fit the profile, but the vast majority we've seen fit it perfectly. Who are the adherents to the interpretation of Islam that Al-Qaeda supports? Saudis, Pakistanis, Afghans - people from mideastern Islamic nations. If these people get extra scrutiny because they are more likely to be terrorists than a grandmother from Nebraska, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

You can never be too careful with Nebraskan Grandmothers...

There are finite resources available to investigate terrorist. How about we concentrate on the ones that are carrying bombs rather than the ones that "look like arabs". Osama must be having a good laugh when told "The americans are looking for anyone who looks like an arab" I bet Winston Churchill would have found "watch out for people who look like Germans" very valuable advice...

King George was on the lookout for "American looking" revolutionaries.....

Roman soldiers should be suspicious of anyone that looks like Ghengis Kahn.

During WW2 it was difficult to tell who looked German or Italian so we just interned japanese looking people.

If you find crop circles, suspect anyone who looks Martian.:)

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Lothian
Ghengis, I don’t think it is difficult to understand, but feel free to correct me if I have it wrong.

In order to prevent terrorism every arab and middle-eastern looking man in and entering the United States should be deemed a likely terrorist. Therefore they should be subject to intensive investigation to acertain whether they are a danger to the nation.

My concern is that this strategy will result in such a massive waste of time and money that legitimate methods would suffer. But then you weren’t being serious were you.

Agreed that it takes a great deal of time and money. But, have you tried to get through an American airport lately? I can't begin to imagine what we're spending on security checks, screening equipment, people to operate this equipment, and security personnel. I'm constantly delayed by having to:

* present id and boarding pass
* take out my laptop to screen seperately
* remove my jacket
* place purse, cell phone, keys, change, etc in a seperate container
* remove shoes
* walk through xray
* go to gate and present ID again and possibly be searched again

Believe me, I'm no threat to national security. And, I don't like undergoing all these measures. But if the US were to suddenly suffer attacks from perpetrators who were predominantly white, female and under 5'4" , I wouldn't care if they singled me out (and those like me) for security checks...especially since I have nothing to hide. And, if it means that 80 year old men and women, or six year old children are less likely to be detained needlessly as a result, better still.

[Malachi151]

I don't have a problem with profiling, the biggest problem with it based on race is that it can lead to overlooking potential threats from people of other races.

Let's not forget that the 2nd biggets terrorist attack in the US was done by a white American born citizen, and that the anthrax mail letters were from a white American born citizen also.

Profiling, fine. Race as one of many elements to profiling, fine too. Focusing in on race too much and not looking at other factors, stupid.

[Malachi151]

The other issue of course is that if only you look for Arab terroists then you will only find Arab terrorists, and hence you will verify your expectation that all terrorists are Arabs.

Keep in mind to that most people who get "caught before the act" are people who were likely not to have really gone through with it anyway, so I'm sure that there are a lot of terrorist blowhards of all colors all over the country with different agenda, probably 99% of which never act on their desires. If you start arresting on these desires, and only target Arabs, sure, I bet you can find planty, but if you apply the same standard to all races I bet you find plenty in all races too.

[Malachi151]

One last thing, they did catch the guy did they not? So obviously is proof that whatever they are doing is working. (at least in theory, assuming its not all a bunch of lies like the rest of the news) So, if they are cathing terrorist threats then what is the problem?

[Genghis Pwn]

I am pleased that the majority of posters here are exhibiting rational thinking, and that the early tide of PC Crusading on this thread has been turned back by the powers of logic and reason.

Of course, profiling should only be used as one part of the overall effort to identify and stop terrorists. Nobody is talking about relying soley on profiling. It is refreshing to me to see the government making a common-sense decision on a delicate topic like this (racial profiling).

[c0rbin]

Do you listen to Huey Lewis and the News?

Those were the best parts of that book! Those parts and the habitrail up the...anyway...

Wasn't the dude who blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma from Syria?

He wasn't?!?

[Tmy]

How dumb do you think these guys are? If there out to do terrorism obvioulsy they are going to distance themsleves from sterotypical looks and behavior.

Not to mention that arabs come in a variety of size shapes and colors. Therer are alot of arabs (and muslims) who do not look the stereotype.

[Genghis Pwn]

Originally posted by Tmy
How dumb do you think these guys are? If there out to do terrorism obvioulsy they are going to distance themsleves from sterotypical looks and behavior.

Not to mention that arabs come in a variety of size shapes and colors. Therer are alot of arabs (and muslims) who do not look the stereotype.

I find the lack of intelligence shown in this post is disheartening. This person couldn't really have thought this post out very well. I mean, we have already talked about other potential threats -- from black muslims, female muslims, muslim terrorists from southeast Asia, etc. -- yet Tmy now produces this gem of a post?

[Tmy]

Your right, profing works. Of course you never really hear about profiling when its wrong. That serial killer in Baton Rouge. Wrong profile, that kid who was bombing mailboxes in the midwest. Wrong profile. DC sniper, wrong again.

It amazes me how people bitch about he security in airports and then want all this profiling cause they dont want to be bothered by security. People most for profiling are the ones who are not goingto be profiled.

[BobK]

Originally posted by Malachi151
I don't have a problem with profiling, the biggest problem with it based on race is that it can lead to overlooking potential threats from people of other races.

Let's not forget that the 2nd biggets terrorist attack in the US was done by a white American born citizen, and that the anthrax mail letters were from a white American born citizen also.

Profiling, fine. Race as one of many elements to profiling, fine too. Focusing in on race too much and not looking at other factors, stupid.

I'm curious, who is the white American born citizen that mailed the anthrax letters?

I don't remember them being identified or caught.:confused:

[chulbert]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

[HarryKeogh]

c'mon, we profile people based on race and appearance every day. if i'm on a plane i would be more comfortable sitting next to two white businessmen holding suitcases or two black ladies carrying bibles than two "arab-looking" young men clutching copies of the koran.

i will admit that sitting next to them i'd be hoping security checked them and their bags extra carefully.

and the vast majority of the time my fears would be unfounded but those thoughts would go through my mind. and i dont think those thought make me racist. my country was burned badly by 19 arabs, not 19 norwegians. that's the reality of the situation.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by chulbert
What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

That comes after you are arrested...

[repairman]

Row 2 Column 1. Isn't that Ray Romano?;)

[Ladewig]

My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand?


Ohh, Ohh, Mr. Kotter, call on me, I know this one.

First, we need to define the "check" in "using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men." Do you mean give them five extra minutes of security checks at the airport or give them eighty-five extra minutes of security at the airport or do you mean check up on them whether they are travelling or not?

Second, the terrorist bomb that brought down the 747 over Lockerbee, Scotland was not carried on board by a swarthy Middle-eastern man. It was carried on by a Middle-eastern man's girlfriend (he did not board the plane). So once targeting profiling catches on, the terrorists will have non-targeted people knowingly or unknowingly carry on the weapons/bombs/pointed wooden sticks.*

Third, once targeted racial profiling catches on, the terrorists will send a couple of dozen Middle-eastern looking men through security at once. None will have anything on them, but the additional strain on limited resources will make it easier for the other non-Middle-eastern terrorists to get through security at the same time.

Fourth, part of this type of terrorism is coming up with something bigger than the last event. I am quite doubtful that Al Queda is planning another airplane hijacking when there are so many other vulnerable high-visibility targets available.

Fifth, I need to get a life if I am spending this much time responding to a troll who seems to aspire to the role of sock puppet (what with the Darth photo?)



*pointed wooden sticks were recently used in an attack on a flight attendant.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by BillyTK


So anyone with a tan and a beard then?

And a nose a 757 could land on?

JK

[Mr Manifesto]

Don't forget, too, that this person admitted to thinking about blowing up the Brooklyn bridge as part of a plea bargain.

"We'll knock off some of your sentence if you'll admit to any terrorist activities you were thinking of."

"Oh, well I wasn't thinking of any"

"I'm sorry to hear that. Because if, y'know, you were thinking of any, then we could have knocked a few years off your sentence."

"Oh, wait, this one time, I was going to go after the Brooklyn bridge..."

[peptoabysmal]

Hmmm... I wonder if these guys (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2003/06/16/112703-ap.html) fit the profile?

[Genghis Pwn]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh
c'mon, we profile people based on race and appearance every day. if i'm on a plane i would be more comfortable sitting next to two white businessmen holding suitcases or two black ladies carrying bibles than two "arab-looking" young men clutching copies of the koran.

i will admit that sitting next to them i'd be hoping security checked them and their bags extra carefully.

and the vast majority of the time my fears would be unfounded but those thoughts would go through my mind. and i dont think those thought make me racist. my country was burned badly by 19 arabs, not 19 norwegians. that's the reality of the situation.

I applaud Harry. He always uses logic, reason and common sense.

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
My theory is that using racial profiling to check arab and middle-eastern looking men (especially when they are from the middle east) will be beneficial in thwarting terrorist attacks, and is only common sense. As proof, you can see the 911 hijackers, the shoe bomber, and the newly arrested would-be Brooklyn Bridge bomber as confirmation that the profile does in fact match the perpetrators, to a T.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

Oh yeah, don't forget about white males in their 20-35's, wouldn't want another repeat of OK City, or the destruction of the train tracks that resulted in the derailing of a train in southern AZ a few years back by a WS group, or the bombings and burnings of synagogues and African Amer churches.

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by The Fool
I wonder if there is a profile for forum trolls? I seem to see a pattern of thread topics forming.

The commonly accepted profile for serial killers is white males 18-32yo...Maybe we should investigate all people fitting this dangerous sounding profile.

Ever wondered if you fit the profile of a serial killer?...try this quick quiz.

I scored 11 so don't ever PM me your home address!! But don't worry, I have not killed for weeks.

13, but no worries, the Doctor say the new medication will help stop the voices.

AND IF I CAN'T HEAR THEM THEY CAN'T MAKE DO BAD THINGS

Edited to add:
That probably would have worked better if I hadn't used any punctuation.