US reporter shot by Mexican police while covering teacher's union strike

[jay gw]

According to Friday evening's reports from Radio APPO and other sources, paramilitaries began an assault on Oaxaca, which has been held by the Popular Assembly of the People of Oaxaca (APPO) for over 5 months. People were killed, injured, disappeared, and hospitalized.

It has been confirmed that New York City Indymedia reporter Brad Will (William Bradley Roland) was shot in the chest and killed, while Oswaldo Ramírez, photographer for Milenio Diario, has also been shot and is injured. APPO also confirmed that schoolteacher Emilio Alfonso Fabián died from three bullet wounds after an attack by shooters working for Ulises Ruiz Ortiz outside the state government palace.

http://www.indybay.org/

[Rob Lister]

Wow. I thought our teacher's union was bad.

ETA: Wow squared! The folks at Indymedia are very unbiased in their reporting.

On Sunday 1 October 2006, about 20-30 activists showed up [HRIMC report] [CASMII report] at the Norfolk Naval Base protesting against the sending of an armada of professional mass murderers' ships, led by the USS Eisenhower, to the Persian Gulf in order to kill people in Iran. One sailor driving into and out of the base confirmed that her group of murderers was being sent to the Gulf. Ironically, Eisenhower was the US president involved in Operation Ajax which in 1953 overthrew the elected Iranian prime minister Mossadegh.

[geni]

Indymedia still around?

[geni]

Wow. I thought our teacher's union was bad.

ETA: Wow squared! The folks at Indymedia are very unbiased in their reporting.

Not a conventional news organistation. But it is safe to say that a lot of their reports come from the rather far left wing.

[DanishDynamite]

Wow. I thought our teacher's union was bad.

ETA: Wow squared! The folks at Indymedia are very unbiased in their reporting.
Wow cubed!

In what sense is the political slant of the reporter's news organization of relevance to their being shot on assigment in Mexico?

[Rob Lister]

Wow cubed!

In what sense is the political slant of the reporter's news organization of relevance to their being shot on assigment in Mexico?

Good question. Maybe he just got in the way.

[DanishDynamite]

Good question. Maybe he just got in the way.
So what was up with your "Wow squared"? Why did you feel this was worthy of mention?

[Rob Lister]

So what was up with your "Wow squared"? Why did you feel this was worthy of mention?

As a side note. I don't often run into that level of rhetoric. I thought it possible the killing of this specific reporter was intentional. Likely, given the orgainization for whom he works, he wears more than just a reporter hat

[DanishDynamite]

As a side note. I don't often run into that level of rhetoric. I thought it possible the killing of this specific reporter was intentional. Likely, given the orgainization for whom he works, he wears more than just a reporter hat
I'm not sure I understand. Do you feel that it was somewhat justified or at least understandable that these reporterts were killed in Mexico, given the news organization they came from?

[Rob Lister]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you feel that it was somewhat justified or at least understandable that these reporterts were killed in Mexico, given the news organization they came from?

Justified? No.

Understandable? Possibly.

[DanishDynamite]

Justified? No.

Understandable? Possibly.
In what way? I have to say I'm quite curious.

[Rob Lister]

If he was a reporter that specialized in bending the news to one political position or the other then someone on the wrong end of that position might take a disliking to him...

On the other hand, he could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[DanishDynamite]

If he was a reporter that specialized in bending the news to one political position or the other then someone on the wrong end of that position might take a disliking to him and is ilk.
And was that the case?
On the other hand, he could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Are you saying you don't know??

[Rob Lister]

And was that the case?

Are you saying you don't know??

Was that the case? Given the bent of the news orgainization, I'd say it's a good possibility.

[DanishDynamite]

Was that the case? Given the bent of the news orgainization, I'd say it's a good possibility.
Again: Was that the case?

(Or in other words: Was the woman asking for it? Did her plunging neckline invite the rape?)

[jay gw]

Mexico - Annual report 2006

The country became the most dangerous in Latin America for journalists in 2005, with two murdered and a third who vanished, all in early April. Impunity reigns despite apparent efforts by the federal government.

Gunmen fired 8 bullets at Dolores Guadalupe García Escamilla, a journalist with radio station Estéreo 91 XHNOE in Nuevo Laredo (Tamaulipas state), in front of the station on 5 April and she died 11 days later. Raúl Gibb Guerrero, publisher of the regional daily La Opinión, was chased by gunmen in two cars on 8 April in Papantla (in the eastern state of Veracruz) on 8 April and shot dead a few yards from his home, apparently by hired killers. He had recently written about drug trafficking and petrol smuggling.

Alfredo Jiménez Mota, of the daily El Imparcial in Hermosillo (in the northwestern state of Sonora), has been missing since 2 April 2005. He specialised in security and drug-trafficking matters and was due to meet a contact, a federal official, when he disappeared.

Sixteen journalists have been killed or have vanished while doing their job since 2000.



http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17426

[Rob Lister]

Again: Was that the case?

(Or in other words: Was the woman asking for it? Did her plunging neckline invite the rape?)

Perhaps we are reading different articles.

[Rob Lister]

Mexico - Annual report 2006

The country became the most dangerous in Latin America for journalists in 2005, with two murdered and a third who vanished, all in early April. Impunity reigns despite apparent efforts by the federal government.

Gunmen fired 8 bullets at Dolores Guadalupe García Escamilla, a journalist with radio station Estéreo 91 XHNOE in Nuevo Laredo (Tamaulipas state), in front of the station on 5 April and she died 11 days later. Raúl Gibb Guerrero, publisher of the regional daily La Opinión, was chased by gunmen in two cars on 8 April in Papantla (in the eastern state of Veracruz) on 8 April and shot dead a few yards from his home, apparently by hired killers. He had recently written about drug trafficking and petrol smuggling.

Alfredo Jiménez Mota, of the daily El Imparcial in Hermosillo (in the northwestern state of Sonora), has been missing since 2 April 2005. He specialised in security and drug-trafficking matters and was due to meet a contact, a federal official, when he disappeared.

Sixteen journalists have been killed or have vanished while doing their job since 2000.



http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17426

Well, that pretty much supports the political motivation.

[DanishDynamite]

Perhaps we are reading different articles.
I don't think we are.

So, was the news team asking for it?

[Rob Lister]

I don't think we are.

So, was the news team asking for it?

They didn't ask me. Did they ask you?

[DanishDynamite]

They didn't ask me. Did they ask you?
A non-answer. OK.

[Rob Lister]

A non-answer. OK.

Ok, if you don't want to answer, I don't mind.

[DanishDynamite]

Ok, if you don't want to answer, I don't mind.Your non-answer is OK. I'm used to them by now.

[Rob Lister]

The only answer pending is from you. I've answered all mine [that made sense] but it appears it was not the set of answers you hoped for.

I didn't care how you answered.

Then again, I'm not trolling.

[DanishDynamite]

The only answer pending is from you. I've answered all mine [that made sense] but it appears it was not the set of answers you hoped for.

I didn't care how you answered.

Then again, I'm not trolling.
Then again, perhaps you are.

Your answer so far has been:

"Was that the case? Given the bent of the news orgainization, I'd say it's a good possibility"

So, you feel that indeed the type of news organization that the journalists belonged to, was a relevant factor in why they killed. Right?

[Rob Lister]

Then again, perhaps you are.

Your answer so far has been:

"Was that the case? Given the bent of the news orgainization, I'd say it's a good possibility"

So, you feel that indeed the type of news organization that the journalists belonged to, was a relevant factor in why they killed. Right?

I believe I suggested it was a good possibility. Do you disagree?

[DanishDynamite]

I believe I suggested it was a good possibility. Do you disagree?
Certainly. You think the ones shooting had any idea about who they might hit, or whether hitting someone in particular would better their case?

[Rob Lister]

Certainly. You think the ones shooting had any idea about who they might hit, or whether hitting someone in particular would better their case?

Possibly. As I stated...
On the other hand, he could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Still, I suspect it was intentional more than random. No way to know.

[jay gw]

The Mexican government:

* waited 5 months to take action. Any action. They never attempted to mediate the dispute to a conclusion or take any other actions.
* Finally, after 5 months, the federal government sends in troops to simply "disburse" the crowd.
* 24 hours later, the crowd comes back. With twice as many people.

This is how Mexico is run. It's perfectly understandable why the average person there has so little respect for public officials.

If this had happened in the US there would be several hundred dead. That's because the US allows anybody to own guns, while Mexico has gun control. That's the only reason conflicts there don't escalate into massacres.

-

[pipelineaudio]

"That's because the US allows anybody to own guns, while Mexico has gun control. That's the only reason conflicts there don't escalate into massacres.
"

Spoken by someone who has obviously never been anywhere remotely near mexico

If you think their gun control laws keep anyone from having guns you are WAY out there

[Tailgater]

If this had happened in the US there would be several hundred dead. That's because the US allows anybody to own guns, while Mexico has gun control. That's the only reason conflicts there don't escalate into massacres.


wrong

[GroundStrength]

I don't think we are.

So, was the news team asking for it?

No, the killers offered it.

However, their opinions surely played a part in getting them into the wrong place at the wrong time.

[GroundStrength]

If this had happened in the US there would be several hundred dead. That's because the US allows anybody to own guns, while Mexico has gun control. That's the only reason conflicts there don't escalate into massacres.
-

Evidence of conflicts escalating into massacres in the united States of America please?

[jay gw]

If you think their gun control laws keep anyone from having guns you are WAY out there

Lots of people in Mexico have guns, but most don't. There are almost as many guns in the US as there are people.

[Pescado]

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but this is how I see the situation. DanishDynamite, I think what Rob Lister is trying to say is not that it is somehow acceptable for the police to have killed this reporter, but that he can understand the motive of the Oaxaca police and governor for having done so.

I could see it happening even to a 'real' journalist who was truly trying to stay unbiased for a 'legitimate' news story. In the case of a far left winger who obviously has a very strong opinion on these things, it seems much more likely that this reporter could get more intimately involved in things and therefore attract more attention to themselves from the wrong places. American journalists are strong allies and powerful enemies, after all. There's no evidence that this is what happened, but Rob Lister only raised it as a possibility. I would tend to agree with him.

More to the topic, this is just one more instance of the corrupt and inept nature of the Mexican government. Granted that Oaxaca is a region far removed from the Mexico City sphere of power, with a recent revolutionary history with the Zapatista movement, and the feds might have feared a confrontation. However, each time the Mexican federal government allows lawlessness (on both sides) like this to go on without stepping in, they lose ever more influence over affairs within their nation, which just makes the problem even worse. At some point the federal government is going to have to get its act together and confront corrupt sectors of the government, to make a committment to ending corruption by whatever means necessary and no matter the consequences. It's got to start at the top and unless it does, Mexico is not going anywhere in my opinion.

[pipelineaudio]

Lots of people in Mexico have guns, but most don't. There are almost as many guns in the US as there are people.

Unless you are driving thru a military base or walking thru a gun show, you will never see the number of openly brandished weapons in the USA as in Mexico

Try driving up to a Mexican primary school for instance in a populated area. I think you will be quite surprised

[Cleon]

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but this is how I see the situation. DanishDynamite, I think what Rob Lister is trying to say is not that it is somehow acceptable for the police to have killed this reporter, but that he can understand the motive of the Oaxaca police and governor for having done so.

Certainly. And I can understand OJ's motive when he butchered Nicole and Ron Goldman (jealousy). The fact that I understand the motive does not make it any less of a crime.

[GroundStrength]

Certainly. The fact that I understand the motive does not make it any less of a crime.

Where did anyone say that it was less of a crime?

[Pescado]

Certainly. And I can understand OJ's motive when he butchered Nicole and Ron Goldman (jealousy). The fact that I understand the motive does not make it any less of a crime.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't trying to imply that it was any less of a crime, only that the motive was clear. Actually, in the very text that you quoted from me, I say that it "is not that it is somehow acceptable for the police to have killed this reporter".

[Rob Lister]

Certainly. And I can understand OJ's motive when he butchered Nicole and Ron Goldman (jealousy). The fact that I understand the motive does not make it any less of a crime.

So, it appears we are in perfect agreement. When asked if it was justifiable, I answered no. When asked if it was understandable, I answered yes. The rest was just DD trying to spin it into an argument.

[Cleon]

So, it appears we are in perfect agreement. When asked if it was justifiable, I answered no. When asked if it was understandable, I answered yes. The rest was just DD trying to spin it into an argument.

Oh, please. :rolleyes:

[Rob Lister]

Oh, please. :rolleyes:

So, where do we disagree?

[Ziggurat]

It has been confirmed that New York City Indymedia reporter Brad Will (William Bradley Roland) was shot in the chest and killed, while Oswaldo Ramírez, photographer for Milenio Diario, has also been shot and is injured. APPO also confirmed that schoolteacher Emilio Alfonso Fabián died from three bullet wounds after an attack by shooters working for Ulises Ruiz Ortiz outside the state government palace.

I'm sure the people in question are indeed dead. But I wouldn't take APPO's word, or Indymedia's word, for who shot them and under what circumstances.

Some interesting coverage of events can also be found here:
http://markinmexico.blogspot.com/