Is this our future?

[twinstead]

Sorry, I don't start threads as a general rule, but I am curious about something.

Is this what we have to look forward to after every major event in history from now on, namely laymen looking at videos in minute detail and declaring conspiracy at the slightlest anomaly?

How many events in history would have similar results if they had happened in these times? Can you imagine the bunch declaring that the images of Zeros bombing Pearl Harbor are fake?

Is this the future?

[Skibum]

Welcome to the information overload age, baby.

[T.A.M.]

Unfortunately, thanks to the "internets" and "the google", I fear this is what we have to look forward for every contraversial event in history.

TAM

[Redtail]

Sorry, I don't start threads as a general rule, but I am curious about something.

Is this what we have to look forward to after every major event in history from now on, namely laymen looking at videos in minute detail and declaring conspiracy at the slightlest anomaly?

How many events in history would have similar results if they had happened in these times? Can you imagine the bunch declaring that the images of Zeros bombing Pearl Harbor are fake?

Is this the future?

I'd have to say yes. Sadly.

[uk_dave]

YES!
Oh my god, YES

No one should say anything, during or immediately after a major event, because it will be recorded and analysed by teenagers in their bedrooms until it sounds as if you have confessed to eating babies for breakfast.

Every person, with the help of the internet and a bit of free video editing software is going to be a amatuer sleuth or film maker, and no one will care about educated expert opinion because they have google and so long as they're not fussy about the provenance of the site they are looking at (and let's face it... how many on the left of politics who believe the 911 fantasy are still quite happy to post links to alex jones's fascist site or the right wing ramblings of the AFP?) they will find someone, somewhere who believes the same as they believe.

Welcome to the brave new world.

[R.Mackey]

Look on the bright side... All the available information means that most people, rational ones, can run their own experiments and learn something. If nothing else, they can gain an appreciation for actual science. I'm quite pleased with the ready access to reports such as NIST and the Moussaoui trial evidence. I've learned a lot, and I'm an engineer with 12+ years of college under my belt.

Fortunately, the paranoiacs remain a minority. We'll just have to take the good with the bad.

[T.A.M.]

It is sad to say, but the quickest way that this 9/11 truth bullcrap could vanish, is if the Internet crashed completely, and could not get up and running again...

Sad, but true.

TAM

[Beleth]

For the near future, probably. There will eventually be either a backlash at it, or it'll become unfashionable to do so.

Something else will come along that will give disaffected, uneducated folks even more of a voice than YouTube does, and conspiracy theories will go the way of malt shops.

[Oliver]

After the fifth attack there will be no more conspiracy thories
because it´s getting normal then.

[twinstead]

I am most interested in our conspiracy theorist friends' opinion on this subject.

How does one, in your opinion, draw the line between legitimate questioning of events and wholesale idiocy?

On my side of the issue, I can tell the difference between the ignorant jingoist and the well-researched expert. Is everything that even remotely supports your position true, or can you also weed out the 'kooks'?

[Oliver]

I am most interested in our conspiracy theorist friends' opinion on this subject.

How does one, in your opinion, draw the line between legitimate questioning of events and wholesale idiocy?

On my side of the issue, I can tell the difference between the ignorant jingoist and the well-researched expert. Is everything that even remotely supports your position true, or can you also weed out the 'kooks'?

I think a good general education helps a lot. Plus a littlebit of
moral standards regarding BS-talk. The IMHO stupid "everyone
is allowed to talk everything" seems to be another reason for
most of the crap.

[stateofgrace]

I fear it is. The internet has it upside but it allows for the spread of this type of BS. People can say whatever they wish via the internet, it is by enlarge anonymous. Once said the same people can simply walk away from it, forget it and watch the fire works.

I actually think the benefit it is that, well for myself I can test my own believes and have them tested by the conspirators. If anything they have simply reinforced my initial believes.

Right now a few of them are taking themselves all serious on a thread on this board, dismissing all that is put to them, dismissing all logic and even now dismissing posts they deem beneath them. Here is the downfall of the conspirator. The truth means nothing; it is a show, a simple game show for them to win. The truth is secondary.

Welcome to the NWO, all online, all on tap.

[PerryLogan]

Fortunately, there are debunking websites and forums such as this, to set the record straight for anyone who cares to look. The only people who don't know the CTs have been totally debunked are the CTs themselves.

Cue Twlight Zone theme.

Further down the line, science may eliminate the defective gene that leads to "conspiratorial disorder." It's mostly stupid white guys who think they're geniuses, you know.

[Redtail]

Further down the line, science may eliminate the defective gene that leads to "conspiratorial disorder." It's mostly stupid white guys who think they're geniuses, you know.

Again I have to disagree based on my 34+ years of being Black and teaching at an HBC/U. I'd have to call it squaresies among the population.

[Triterope]

I think a good general education helps a lot. Plus a littlebit of moral standards regarding BS-talk. The IMHO stupid "everyone
is allowed to talk everything" seems to be another reason for most of the crap.

That is so true. Tolerance for imbecilic conspiracy theories is a yet another outcome of this moral relativism that is consuming our society. Life needs to be more like South Park, where people can say "Dude, that's just stupid."

[Oliver]

That is so true. Tolerance for imbecilic conspiracy theories is a yet another outcome of this moral relativism that is consuming our society. Life needs to be more like South Park, where people can say "Dude, that's just stupid."

Here in germany it works this way. All People would say:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :eek: :mad: Go, F*** off. Search for
a hobby and don´t come back with this crap again until
you have something provable .............. Geeeeezus!". :mad:

Everyone here would react this way. That´s why we
usually don´t see conspiracies at every corner. I guess
it´s the same in england, isn´t it?

In america it goes this way:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :D Coooool. I have five
Friends who believe that the ufos are commercials
from the NWO" :boggled:

[uk_dave]

Fortunately, there are debunking websites and forums such as this, to set the record straight for anyone who cares to look. The only people who don't know the CTs have been totally debunked are the CTs themselves.

Cue Twlight Zone theme.

Further down the line, science may eliminate the defective gene that leads to "conspiratorial disorder." It's mostly stupid white guys who think they're geniuses, you know.

I do sometimes wonder how the CTer's felt when they discovered that it wasn't the government posting stuff which refuted their claims, but ordinary (well, in the case of Perry EXTRAordinary) people who wanted the truth and reality to prevail, rather than paranoid fantasies.

The 'troof' movement adopted the internet as their own and used it in a way the conspiracy advocates of old could only dream of.

But then, along come all these websites using the same tools as the CTer's but advocating a more realistic scenario.

Damn that had to have hurt.

[Ginarley]

There is a certain value to conspiracy theories. For humans to get anywhere we need people who can think for themselves and who are willing to challenge the status quo. Science is built on the notion of ideas that are defended and disproved as a pathway to greater understanding. A conspiracy theory is really just an alternative hypothesis for a sequence of events much like any investigation. Investigating alternative explanations is a good thing for the most part.

The fact people are investigating these things and trying to explain them in alternative ways is beneficial and should be encouraged. If more religious people did this the world would be a better place.

The real problem is the failure to recognise when your hypothesis is not working and to gracefully let it drop. The real problem behind CTs is not that they exist but that they persist beyond reason.

[stateofgrace]

Fortunately, there are debunking websites and forums such as this, to set the record straight for anyone who cares to look. The only people who don't know the CTs have been totally debunked are the CTs themselves.

Cue Twlight Zone theme.

Further down the line, science may eliminate the defective gene that leads to "conspiratorial disorder." It's mostly stupid white guys who think they're geniuses, you know.

I like this and have put it in my signature, hope you don't mind.

[T.A.M.]

There is a certain value to conspiracy theories. For humans to get anywhere we need people who can think for themselves and who are willing to challenge the status quo. Science is built on the notion of ideas that are defended and disproved as a pathway to greater understanding. A conspiracy theory is really just an alternative hypothesis for a sequence of events much like any investigation. Investigating alternative explanations is a good thing for the most part.

The fact people are investigating these things and trying to explain them in alternative ways is beneficial and should be encouraged. If more religious people did this the world would be a better place.

The real problem is the failure to recognise when your hypothesis is not working and to gracefully let it drop. The real problem behind CTs is not that they exist but that they persist beyond reason.


I would agree, with this addition or subclause.

Science is reasonable in its hypothesis. For example, you do not see scientists looking for funding to prove that bubblegum cures cancer, or to prove that man is really made of orange juice. The CTers do not seem to know the difference with the unlikely but plausible, which perhaps warrants a closer look, and the insanely stupid, which requires the suggester get a swift kick in the deriere.

TAM

[uk_dave]

TAM,

The CT'ers are exactly the same mentality as those who dispute Anthropogenic climate change and would accuse scientists of promoting that 'theory' simply to get funding.

The irony is that, just as with climate change, those who accuse the scientific consensus of being bought, are the ones who know that their own scientists/experts are bought.

They apply the same standard to the consensus as they know to be true of the minority.

[T.A.M.]

There scientists are either bought, or simply Cookoo...lol

TAM

[Bell]

I like this and have put it in my signature, hope you don't mind.

Your sig shows up tiny on my screen. Maybe better use the sans serif? [/derail]

Re the OP: I'm afraid yes. Look what happened at tthe LC boards a few weeks ago when that small plane crashed into that NY appartment building :rolleyes:

[Housefly]

Here in germany it works this way. All People would say:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :eek: :mad: Go, F*** off. Search for
a hobby and don´t come back with this crap again until
you have something provable .............. Geeeeezus!". :mad:

Everyone here would react this way. That´s why we
usually don´t see conspiracies at every corner. I guess
it´s the same in england, isn´t it?Are we forgetting Princess Di? I blame the papers for this one: a headline proclaiming "THE SHOCKING TRUTH BEHIND DIANA'S DEATH" is a real hook for a story (which turned out to be about an investigation which reached the conclusion that Di's death was a terrible accident, not a murder plot). Also, there are some people who are sure the 7/7 bombings last years were staged. By the jews, of course.

[Housefly]

Re the OP: I'm afraid yes. Look what happened at tthe LC boards a few weeks ago when that small plane crashed into that NY appartment building :rolleyes:I saw the boards that day. They were laughing about it. "Oh my God! It's going to pancake collapse!!!!" Why did all you guys have to debunk them and turn them into sarcastic, bitter little cynics?

[uk_dave]

Welcome Housefly

Hope you enjoy your time here...though I have to warn you...the CT advocates are of a ....... passion not easily experienced elsewhere.

[Oliver]

Are we forgetting Princess Di? I blame the papers for this one: a headline proclaiming "THE SHOCKING TRUTH BEHIND DIANA'S DEATH" is a real hook for a story (which turned out to be about an investigation which reached the conclusion that Di's death was a terrible accident, not a murder plot). Also, there are some people who are sure the 7/7 bombings last years were staged. By the jews, of course.

Well, the national news told the story. That´s the difference
to what i said.

And there was no bunch of blackshirted Loons bullhorning
"Murderer" at the palace. :D

[uk_dave]

Well, the national news told the story. That´s the difference
to what i said.

And there was no bunch of blackshirted Loons bullhorning
"Murderer" at the palace. :D

oh yes there was!

lol

[Oliver]

oh yes there was!

lol

No kidding? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107451da7e781cb2.gif

[uk_dave]

Oliver, you look so much better than I imagined you!

lol

[Bell]

Oliver, you look so much better than I imagined you!

lol

Back off, Dave! He's mine... she's mine... :c1:

[PerryLogan]

Let's just calm down. Take a cold shower.

I'm honored that you quoted me, Stateofgrace, though I can't reveal my sources.

[uk_dave]

I don't know what bell typed because he/she is on ignore... but i'll wrestle him/her in a bath of baked beans for oliver (typing that felt SO wrong!)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Here in germany it works this way. All People would say:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :eek: :mad: Go, F*** off. Search for
a hobby and don´t come back with this crap again until
you have something provable .............. Geeeeezus!". :mad:

Everyone here would react this way. That´s why we
usually don´t see conspiracies at every corner. I guess
it´s the same in england, isn´t it?

In america it goes this way:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :D Coooool. I have five
Friends who believe that the ufos are commercials
from the NWO" :boggled:

Ollie, this is NOT the topic you want to start a "germany vs. US" thing on.

Consider bragging about your superior soccer team instead? ;)

[Bell]

I don't know what bell typed because he/she is on ignore... but i'll wrestle him/her in a bath of baked beans for oliver (typing that felt SO wrong!)

:D

[Bell]

Let's just calm down. Take a cold shower.

I'm honored that you quoted me, Stateofgrace, though I can't reveal my sources.

Does AJ has a conspiracy theory about cold showers? If so, I will gladly follow your advise :)

[Mince]

Welcome to the information overload age, baby.


Yeah. The CTs are starting to convince me that maybe the internet isn't such a great thing after all.

[Ginarley]

I would agree, with this addition or subclause.

Science is reasonable in its hypothesis. For example, you do not see scientists looking for funding to prove that bubblegum cures cancer, or to prove that man is really made of orange juice. The CTers do not seem to know the difference with the unlikely but plausible, which perhaps warrants a closer look, and the insanely stupid, which requires the suggester get a swift kick in the deriere.

TAM

Good point - agree entirely, although I do think the faculty to recognise the latter develops from being kicked a few times :)

[Oliver]

Ollie, this is NOT the topic you want to start a "germany vs. US" thing on.

Consider bragging about your superior soccer team instead? ;)

Oh please, i hate football and these guys who call themselves footballer
are a bunch of millionaire losers, i can tell. :D

[Brainache]

Oh please, i hate football and these guys who call themselves footballer
are a bunch of millionaire losers, i can tell. :D

So now I'm expected to believe that not only is Oliver the first funny German, but that he is actually an extremely gorgeous young woman?

This is all too much for me.

I didn't call myself Brainache for nothing and you people aren't helping.

I think it's time for my beer and a bit of TV.
I may be back later to see if Jessica Rabbit has been banned yet.

:alc: :bunpan :k:

[LashL]

If it's any consolation, high schools here are actually teaching students that internet sources must be taken with at least a grain of salt and that legitimate research requires more than investigoogling. Research papers are required to have legitimate sources other than internet sources, and the only internet sources that carry any weight are those that actually originate from unimpeachable, verifiable, non-internet sources.

So, on the up side, it didn't take long for educational institutions to figure out that the internet evolved from a legitimate resource to an illegitimate resource very quickly due to the fact that anybody can post anything on it, and due to the fact that the illegitimate sources quickly outnumbered the legitimate sources. On the down side, the internet evolved from a legitimate resource to an illegitimate resource very quickly due to the fact that anybody can post anything on it.

C'est la vie.

Now, my daughter is in university and internet sources are scrutinized even more carefully than they were when she was in high school. For good reason, obviously.

It is sad in a way, though, that a resource with such potential could and has been so quickly ruined by nutcases of all stripes (not just tinhatters).

ETA: Oops, I may have missed some of the latter part of the thread before formulating and posting this post so it might seem out of sync now with the thread. If so, just ignore it :)

[Oliver]

So now I'm expected to believe that not only is Oliver the first funny German, but that he is actually an extremely gorgeous young woman?

This is all too much for me.

I didn't call myself Brainache for nothing and you people aren't helping.

I think it's time for my beer and a bit of TV.
I may be back later to see if Jessica Rabbit has been banned yet.

:alc: :bunpan :k:


Well, the girl on the picture is my girlfriend ... and yes, she generally
causes a lot of brainaches... :D

[Brainache]

Well, the girl on the picture is my girlfriend ... and yes, she generally
causes a lot of brainaches... :D

OK now I feel slightly better (just envious).

So have we decided that Jessicarabbit is really pdoherty yet?

[qarnos]

OK now I feel slightly better (just envious).

So have we decided that Jessicarabbit is really pdoherty yet?

Perhaps Jessicarabbit is Olivers girlfriend! :eye-poppi :eek:

[uk_dave]

Perhaps Jessicarabbit is Olivers girlfriend! :eye-poppi :eek:

That would make it a conspiracy.

There should be a forum for that kinda thing.

[Oliver]

Well, i have to admit that i didn´t read jessicas stuff
in here. Is it worth the time? I guess not if she reminds
you to pdoherty and his muppet-show-sock-ensemble. :D

[Brainache]

Well, i have to admit that i didn´t read jessicas stuff
in here. Is it worth the time? I guess not if she reminds
you to pdoherty and his muppet-show-sock-ensemble. :D

Yep. Same crap over and over again.

Jessicarabbit may not be doherty, but she is doing a good job of impersonation.

[Bell]

Yep. Same crap over and over again.

Jessicarabbit may not be doherty, but she is doing a good job of impersonation.

Crazy wabbit looks like P D'oh, and according to the CT nutters, looking alike is more than enough proof.

[Oliver]

Ollie, this is NOT the topic you want to start a "germany vs. US" thing on.

It was no germany vs. us thing. Rather a us vs the rest thing.

[bob_kark]

Well, the girl on the picture is my girlfriend ... and yes, she generally
causes a lot of brainaches... :D
How the?! I'm sorry but I'm going to need evidence. Why would a woman like that want to be with a German comedian?:p

[Kevin Levites]

I wonder if all of the garbage on the Internet actually serves a purpose.

Archaeologists and fossil hunters often have to winnow through thousands of tons of worthless dirt for each meaningful discovery, and I wonder if we lament the B.S. at our own risk.

B.S. serves the purpose of keeping our critical thinking skills sharp, so I do believe that there is something to be gained from winnowing through mountains of B.S. to get at a nugget of truth.

I wonder if any truth that is distilled from tons of B.S. is more likely to be true by virtue of having survived the winnowing process, which would maybe be more severe . . . considering the source.

All the best,

---Kevin

[Retrograde]

Trying to get back on topic....

Is this what we have to look forward to after every major event in history from now on, namely laymen looking at videos in minute detail and declaring conspiracy at the slightlest anomaly?


It's been happening for some time - look at the JFK conspiracy theories. There were Lincoln assassination conspiracy theories starting in the late 19th century, based on sightings of people who looked like Booth. And of course, since a sentry failed to stop Booth leaving Washington after curfew, the government was trying to cover up something.

The problem with the net is that there's lots of data and not so much information. It's great for quick and dirty searches, such as when the first cow rode in an airplane (1930, in you're interested) but not so good on the whys of things. Add to that a relatively low amount of real-world experience, and you get people claiming stuff like "since my barbecue hasn't melted yet the fires ignited by jet fuel and fueled by flammable office furnishings could not have caused conditions that led to metal fatigue and subsequent collapse of structurally compromised buildings".

There's another phenomenon I've noticed in the JFK-conspiracy world: conspiracy theories don't go away. There are starting to be new books (written by people with inside information, of course) that claim every person ever claimed to be involved with the conspiracy got together at one event to plan - makes me wonder where they find rooms that big. It's like they're trying to create the Grand Unified Consipracy Theory: needless to say, Bush the elder played a key role.

[WildCat]

I'm hoping that the faster a conspiracy spreads on the internet, the faster it will go away. People are fickle, something else will come along to make people lose interest in the 9/11 CT.

[MG1962]

It's been happening for some time - look at the JFK conspiracy theories. There were Lincoln assassination conspiracy theories starting in the late 19th century, based on sightings of people who looked like Booth. And of course, since a sentry failed to stop Booth leaving Washington after curfew, the government was trying to cover up something.


You will find it dates back much further. The Great Fire Of London back in the 1660's suffered from a Papist conspiracy theory. It wasn't until the 1840's that the last vestige of this conspiracy was put to bed with the removal of a inscription on one of the commemative plaques laid to celebrate the event.

[Oliver]

How the?! I'm sorry but I'm going to need evidence. Why would a woman like that want to be with a German comedian?:p

Women in general love to laugh. :) ...about men. :mad:


:D

[gumboot]

I wonder if all of the garbage on the Internet actually serves a purpose.

Archaeologists and fossil hunters often have to winnow through thousands of tons of worthless dirt for each meaningful discovery, and I wonder if we lament the B.S. at our own risk.


You may have a good point.

For many years books were the depository of all knowledge, a source unquestionable. If it was written down and published, it was true.

This was because books used to be written by "authors" - that is, authorities on their subject material.

But of course such sources were NOT always so reliable. Even the most extensive experts have bias.

Now, with the internet, you can't believe everything you read. So slowly we're learning to be more critical of information. People never used to do this. You blindly believed your priest. Or the book you were reading.

Perhaps in time the mess of the internet will teach ALL people to use their thinking caps instead of swallowing blindly. Maybe it is already happening - statistically speaking the vast majority of Americans are highly skeptical of anything they see on Television Media.

(I know, doesn't seem likely does it, but statistically, it's true - American's generally don't believe what's on TV).

-Gumboot

[jmontecillo01]

This is the most important period in mans history. This is the time he is learning about information. Information that will shape the minds and character of his children.I am hoping this becomes true. That in the future, our children will learn how to question and not just to swallow everything that is presented to them.

Now, with the internet, you can't believe everything you read. So slowly we're learning to be more critical of information. People never used to do this. You blindly believed your priest. Or the book you were reading.

Perhaps in time the mess of the internet will teach ALL people to use their thinking caps instead of swallowing blindly. Maybe it is already happening - statistically speaking the vast majority of Americans are highly skeptical of anything they see on Television Media.

This tool that we have right now is not hamperred by the boundaries of nations. I am hoping that this can be used to finally find peace through the use of the pen instead of the sword.

[twinstead]

Good points. I think the internet makes it easier, though, for some not only to believe everything they see on the Internet, but even worse to not believe something because it isn't on the Internet.

It may be true that the Internet can promote critical thinking, but for many if they can't find it on Google it doesn't exist.

[Kevin Levites]

You may have a good point.

For many years books were the depository of all knowledge, a source unquestionable. If it was written down and published, it was true.

This was because books used to be written by "authors" - that is, authorities on their subject material.

But of course such sources were NOT always so reliable. Even the most extensive experts have bias.

Now, with the internet, you can't believe everything you read. So slowly we're learning to be more critical of information. People never used to do this. You blindly believed your priest. Or the book you were reading.

Perhaps in time the mess of the internet will teach ALL people to use their thinking caps instead of swallowing blindly. Maybe it is already happening - statistically speaking the vast majority of Americans are highly skeptical of anything they see on Television Media.

(I know, doesn't seem likely does it, but statistically, it's true - American's generally don't believe what's on TV).

-Gumboot

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

All the best,

---Kevin

[Roger_Harris]

Is this what we have to look forward to after every major event in history from now on, namely laymen looking at videos in minute detail and declaring conspiracy at the slightlest anomaly?

I think so, because as we've seen with 9/11, it doesn't take any actual "anomalies" to get things started. All it takes is someone with a predisposition for conspiracy theories looking at something he or she doesn't understand, because once the conspiracy hypothesis is accepted, he or she will REFUSE to understand. Then, as we've also seen with 9/11, throw in the inevitable hucksters who will be quick to see opportunities to exploit gullible and credulous people...

[uk_dave]

Welcome to our reality...........

http://www.dianaconspiracy.com/

http://www.titanicconspiracy.com/

http://www.thepenguinconspiracy.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Story

:dig:

[PerryLogan]

Maybe it will end when they develop better imaging technology. Where would the CTs be without blurry images and videos?

[Graham2001]

If it's any consolation, high schools here are actually teaching students that internet sources must be taken with at least a grain of salt and that legitimate research requires more than investigoogling.

That may not be the case in West Oz if the 'Education' Minister has her way. Aside from pushing Outcomes Based Education she has gone on public record as saying that students don't need to learn history, just 'google' it:jaw-dropp!

(See:Here (http://tinyurl.com/wvl2q) for the original story.)

[jmontecillo01]

Good points. I think the internet makes it easier, though, for some not only to believe everything they see on the Internet, but even worse to not believe something because it isn't on the Internet.

It may be true that the Internet can promote critical thinking, but for many if they can't find it on Google it doesn't exist.

Age of information does not end on the internet. It also includes mass media such as television, radio, newpapers, magazines, etc.

We have a law here in Oz called Media Ownership Laws. It is designed to make sure that one man cannot dictate what is presented to us.

One of the things we have to watch out for are adverticements hiding behind the "news". One example is a cooking segment. They show the labels for the ingredients that they use which in effect is pushing the ingredients.

I normally watch ABC (public channel) instead of commercial channels. I find it balanced in its reporting as it does not have adverticers which could influence the information presented to us.

[Trigood]

Maybe it will end when they develop better imaging technology. Where would the CTs be without blurry images and videos?
Yes, but we'll all have blurry vision by then:

"Aging Boomers with Macular Degeneration for 9/11 'Troof'"

[Soapy Sam]

Here in germany it works this way. All People would say:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :eek: :mad: Go, F*** off. Search for
a hobby and don´t come back with this crap again until
you have something provable .............. Geeeeezus!". :mad:

Everyone here would react this way. That´s why we
usually don´t see conspiracies at every corner. I guess
it´s the same in england, isn´t it?

In america it goes this way:

"Gov murdered 3000 citizens??? :D Coooool. I have five
Friends who believe that the ufos are commercials
from the NWO" :boggled:

Oliver- I agree that Americans do seem a bit more prone to ask stupid questions of their governments than Europeans, but there is the occasional golden nugget among the dross.
One might make a strong case that both the British and the Germans have not, historically, questioned the activities of our governments nearly enough. (If a German government "perfected" the Konzentrazionlager, it was , nonetheless, a British invention of the South African War).

I don't know what effect a 1900 Internet might have had to prevent the atrocities in either case, but at least it might have prevented the "we didn't know" defence.

The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they arise, but that they tend to be obvious nonsense and so rational questioning of authority gets lost in the avalanche of rubbish.

Authority must be accountable to the people- and the Internet is a tool of great power here- but accounatbility must be driven by rational inquiry. (Which I feel is what you have been trying to do yourself).

[Oliver]

Authority must be accountable to the people- and the Internet is a tool of great power here- but accounatbility must be driven by rational inquiry. (Which I feel is what you have been trying to do yourself).

I´m not sure if i translated the last centence the right
way. Here we are also very very critical concerning our
government, the last example were the photos from
german soldiers posing with skulls in afghanistan which
was a big story here in all media.

The difference to me seems that we don´t start conspiracy
theories if we suspect that someone we think who was involved
as long there is no evidence about it.

I guess it´s a moral thing - and i don´t remember a german
conspiracy theory right now. Maybe some other german
members do. I didn´t even know the Reichstagsbrand-CT
before i used to read about conspiracy theories. :boggled: :p

ETA: my initial message was meant ironically if someone did
feel offended. Nothing personal at all. :">