Hotel savings at the Riv.

[Antiquehunter]

Before I start - it is important for the JRef that those attending TAMV use the JRef promo code when making reservations.

JRef has committed to a number of rooms at this rate, and may be left holding the bag if they don't fill 'em.

Also, the room you will get if you book using the JRef code should be in the better tower and will be blocked together (more or less) with other attendees.

So - its important for the strategy below to work, and for the JRef, that TAM attendees book their hotel with the Riviera directly (not through a 'discounter') - especially because if you book through hotels.com or whatever, the Riviera can't comp your room back!

Here are some ways to save a little money / get a better room rate that won't hurt the JRef...

And the secret is... gambling!

If you've been to Vegas before, you probably understand how tracking your play works, but here are some tips:

- GET A SLOT CLUB CARD. After check-in, make a beeline to the slot club booth and sign up. Before you drop a single nickel in a slot machine.

- Whenever you gamble - no matter if its $5 in a nickel machine or $1000 a hand baccarat - stick the card in the machine and make sure it registers, or pass your card to the dealer along with your money for the buy-in.

- At the end of your stay, if you've been playing mostly slots, before you check out, go to the slot club booth and ask if you have earned any comps. If you haven't earned enough for freebies or cash back, ask if you qualify for 'casino rate' for your room. (Casino rate is generally a significant discount. At the Riv, IIRC the casino rate is $45 midweek and $69 weekend)

- If you've been playing mostly table games, on your last night of play, ask to speak to the casino host, and ask the same polite question. "Has my play been enough to get me something off my bill?" If the answer is no, always prompt for the casino rate option. "Well, I'm sorry if I didn't gamble as much this time as usual, but how about casino rate?"

- At the Riviera, they are not a high-roller establishment. A table game average bet of $50 a hand SHOULD be enough to get you significant comps - probably not full RFB (Room, food, beverage) but a significant reduction. If you are going to be playing a LOT or your average bet tends to be at least $25 a hand, I'd recommend you charge all your meals to your room so that IF you luck out and get full RFB they can give you EVERYTHING for free.

- Some casinos, especially 'old school' casinos still allow the pit bosses to hand out dinner comps just for the asking. If you're playing a table game at $25 a hand or more and have been there for an hour or so, you can always ask the pit boss when he's around if you have played enough for a dinner for 2. Ask with a smile, and if policy allows it at the Riviera you may be able to score free eats. (Although if its the buffet, whether or not this is such a great deal remains to be seen...)

- If you're a poker player, you may still be entitled to small comps - usually $1 or $2 an hour off food bills, and if you play 10 - 15 hours over your stay you may qualify for 'casino rate' on your room. Ask the poker room host.

General secrets to maxing your comps:

- Be nice. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
- Tip the dealers when the pit boss is watching your table. Just a buck or two - or place a bet on the dealer's behalf. The pit boss often gets a share of the dealer's tips, and they are the ones that can influence your comps the most.
- The casino is tracking how much you play. They don't give a hoot if you win or lose - its all about action. Action means how much coin you run through a machine, how much you bet per hand, how many hands you play, and how big the house edge is on the game you're playing. They know in the long run if you keep playing, the casino will get your money - but they're also willing to give you a little bit BACK as comps.
- Ask. If you don't ask you won't get.
- Never gamble to 'earn' comps. But if you're going to gamble anyways (it IS Vegas after all) you might as well get the most bang for your buck.

Best of all - even if you get your room comped for your play - your room res will still 'count' towards the JRef 'quota' - so its a win-win for everyone!

T-73 days...

-AH.

[xenxabar]

- Whenever you gamble - no matter if its $5 in a nickel machine or $1000 a hand baccarat - stick the card in the machine and make sure it registers, or pass your card to the dealer along with your money for the buy-in.

Don't rule out the "new nickel" machines, the penny slots. They are taking over the "slot world" especially in Las Vegas. Also, from my observations, they have the highest comp rate of the video games. Most casinos award points for every $5 on penny machines and $10 on video poker. The earnings may be the same with higher denomination machines, but for those who are on a tighter budget, the penny slot can maximize the earning potential. Also, that $5 could earn you some decent comp points (if you are able to keep getting a return and replaying). Well, it should get you one point, at any rate.

[TriangleMan]

Just another props for using the JREF promo code when booking. I did for my room and I sure hope other convention attendees will be in my building (otherwise I'll be lonely :( )

- At the Riviera, they are not a high-roller establishment. A table game average bet of $50 a hand SHOULD be enough to get you significant comps - probably not full RFB (Room, food, beverage) but a significant reduction. If you are going to be playing a LOT or your average bet tends to be at least $25 a hand, I'd recommend you charge all your meals to your room so that IF you luck out and get full RFB they can give you EVERYTHING for free.
If you're playing $50 a hand should you really be all that concerned about saving $20-40/night at the hotel?

[Antiquehunter]

You takes what you can get.

$50 a hand nowadays really isn't seen as that big a deal by most of the casinos. Downtown it'll get you full RFB at say... the Plaza or the El Cortez... if you play 4 hours a day - but on the strip - a buffet or two if you're lucky. At the Bellagio or the Wynn, you might get what you get at McDonalds - Smiles are Free. The Riv is basically a downtown hotel on the strip - so they'll probably give partial to full RFB for this level of play.

For the Luxor / Monte Carlo they want $150 a hand average bets, 4 hours a day for RFB.

If you play blackjack at $50 a hand, assume 75 hands an hour. That is $3750 in action. 4 hours a day = $15,000 in action. The casino assumes they're making about 2% of this so your play is worth $300 to 'em. If they comp you 15% then they can afford to give you $45 in freebies - which at the Riv may be enough for RFB. (I'm using round numbers here folks - please don't get pedantic with hands per hour, EV on a standard blackjack game etc... I'm just trying to describe how the casino determines comps, in general terms)

From the player's perspective, if you're using perfect basic strategy, not even bothering counting cards, you may be able to get the game to about a 0.8% house edge (depends on the rules at the Riv) - so those $45 in comps MAY be enough to make the game pretty much a flat bet over the long haul.

Same for Video Poker addicts. If you play only 'full pay' Jacks or Better or Deuces Wild, the slot club and comps may make this game a 0.5% - 1% game to your advantage - if you play PERFECTLY with correct game selection.

[MLynn]

Yes, these are great tips and I've used most of them.

[Jeff Wagg]

BTW, rack rates for those nights are up to $114. The JREF rate looks pretty good now.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

BTW, rack rates for those nights are up to $114. The JREF rate looks pretty good now.


Huh huh huh huh huh ..... rack .... ah huh huh uh uh h uh huh uh

[Soapy Sam]

Is gambling common at TAM?
I will be surprised if I gamble anything at all.
(I have no objections to gambling, but no interest in it either).

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Is gambling common at TAM?
I will be surprised if I gamble anything at all.
(I have no objections to gambling, but no interest in it either).

A few gamble, but I would say the large majority (80%+) don't.

In the past few years I've dropped a spare nickel or quarter in a slot machine. Two years ago, I think I bet a total of $1.30 and lost it all. Last year, I think I bet a quarter and lost it. I have learned my lesson.

[Jeff Wagg]

Huh huh huh huh huh ..... rack .... ah huh huh uh uh h uh huh uh

A guy handed me a card on the street and said that his rack rate was cheaper, and that it came in any color I wanted. He said this deal was just for me, but if you play your cards right, he might give you one too.

[gambling_cruiser]

According to vpfree there are only four playable videopoker machines at the Riviera. So it seems good for vp players that most TAM attendees don't gamble.

[Overman]

Where does it say the JREF promo code?

[Jeff Wagg]

It's not a code per se, it's just "The Amazing Meeting." That's all.

[Overman]

It's not a code per se, it's just "The Amazing Meeting." That's all.

Sweet, I found it at the TAM5 page.

Thanks, looking so forward to it!!!!

[aargh57]

You takes what you can get.

$50 a hand nowadays really isn't seen as that big a deal by most of the casinos. Downtown it'll get you full RFB at say... the Plaza or the El Cortez... if you play 4 hours a day - but on the strip - a buffet or two if you're lucky. At the Bellagio or the Wynn, you might get what you get at McDonalds - Smiles are Free. The Riv is basically a downtown hotel on the strip - so they'll probably give partial to full RFB for this level of play.

For the Luxor / Monte Carlo they want $150 a hand average bets, 4 hours a day for RFB.

If you play blackjack at $50 a hand, assume 75 hands an hour. That is $3750 in action. 4 hours a day = $15,000 in action. The casino assumes they're making about 2% of this so your play is worth $300 to 'em. If they comp you 15% then they can afford to give you $45 in freebies - which at the Riv may be enough for RFB. (I'm using round numbers here folks - please don't get pedantic with hands per hour, EV on a standard blackjack game etc... I'm just trying to describe how the casino determines comps, in general terms)

From the player's perspective, if you're using perfect basic strategy, not even bothering counting cards, you may be able to get the game to about a 0.8% house edge (depends on the rules at the Riv) - so those $45 in comps MAY be enough to make the game pretty much a flat bet over the long haul.



Here are a few tips to getting comps if you're a BJ player. (Alot of these I got from the book "Comp City" but I've used the tips myself and they do work.) Also note that if you're there just to have a good time and play a little BJ this may not be worth the effort. However, I strongly suggest that you at least buy a BJ strategy card at a giftshop for a couple of bucks. You can use it at the table, the casino won't care.

First, go to Wizardofodds.com. It will give you a lot of info on the odds of different games at the different casinos. It will also give you free basic strategy cards for the particular rules at the casino. You can also buy the wallet sized cards at the casino gift shops for a few bucks. As I said you can even keep the card or sheet right in front of you if you want. I've done it quite often and they don't care (although you can easily memorize it on the flight over).

Here is a link that will give you the odds of the table games at Vegas Casino's:
http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/vegas.html

For the Riviera the House advantage (HA) is 0.26% for their best game and 0.62% for their not so good games. DO NOT play the single deck BJ that pays 6 to 5. It skews the HA by 1.33%.

Of course you want to play on the tables with the lowest HA but sometimes they will have a minimum bet for those tables that will exceed what you're willing to bet. Scope out the tables by asking the dealer what the rules are according to the chart or just look at the card that says what they are. The table will say on it whether they stand on soft 17 or not (you want them to stand on soft 17) but you may have to ask whether you can double after a split, late surrender, or resplit aces. I used the chart last time I went to the MGM in July and I found the tables with a minimal amount of effort.

Now that you found the tables that have the best odds you should try to do a few things that will cut down the number of hands you play. The casino bases everything like Antiquehunter said. They expect you to play 75 hands/hour at about a 2% disadvantage (most people don't play basic strategy and the casino counts on that).
Here are a few things that will slow down you're rate of play. (If you're really interested check out "Comp City. Although some of his tips I think border on being kind of sleazy.)

1.Try to play with a full table. The more people making decisions per hand will slow the rate down.
2.Take breaks. Go to the bathroom, walk away to make a cell call, whatever. I take at least a break/hour.
3.Order drinks even if it's just a free bottle of water or coke (they're free anyway, of course since I always tip a buck I guess the time wasted may not be strictly worth it). This also helps in the going to the bathroom department.
4.Take your time on the hand. If you're playing with the strategy card in front of you look at the card and run you're finger down the columns even if you know what you're going to do. If you've memorized the card, pretend like you're thinking about what you're going to do for a few seconds before you decide.
5.Chat it up with others at the table including the dealer. It'll burn a little time and make things more fun.

Doing all these things will really nock the House advantage down. In Antiquehunter's example he's assuming 75 hands at $50/hr wich is $15000 in action at .8%. If you do the things above you can easily get the rate down to about 50 hands which is $2500 per hour or $10000 in action. If you're playing at the 0.26% table you'll only expect to lose $26 so you're actually coming out a little ahead. (Of course you're probably not going to lose exactly this amount, just what you can expect to lose.)

I know these things don't seem like they'll take up a lot of time but cumulatively they do. If these things make you feel phony or uncomfortable then don't do them, you're there to have fun after all. However, I found that most of the time it this stuff isn't really anything that unusual. I like to talk with the dealer or others around me anyway and I do normally take a bunch of potty breaks (I just break a little longer than I normally would).

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

[kittynh]

so you go to the Coke Machine thingy near the M and M place to get a discount ticket on the Star Trek ride.

That and the STar Treck bar has some sort of giant 3 person drink that has dry ice in it.

My friend that goes to Vegas a lot is giving me these hints. I"m not sure what the coke machine is? It sells tickets?

[kittynh]

Oh, I'm offering to be arm candy. I don't have the correct brain for gambling. But I really loved being Browns arm candy when he showed me Gai Pow Poker (or whatever its called). I enjoy looking at gambling and having it explained (though I need smaller words than Brown used at times).

I have to say it was a lot of fun. Because usually I look at gambling and go "it's too confusing to even go near!"

Watching craps was fascinating!

[Jeff Wagg]

There's a giant coke bottle and M&M mid-strip. That's where the discounts are.

The drink you're referring to is called the "Warp Core Breach" and as it contains 10 oz's of alcohol, yes..threee people. It's $25.

There's a smaller version called the "Mini Core Breach" that has 5oz. It's $12.50. I drank one of those by myself. It.. breached my core.

So then I had a Romulan Ale.

[xenxabar]

so you go to the Coke Machine thingy near the M and M place to get a discount ticket on the Star Trek ride.

That and the STar Treck bar has some sort of giant 3 person drink that has dry ice in it.

My friend that goes to Vegas a lot is giving me these hints. I"m not sure what the coke machine is? It sells tickets?
There's a Tickets2Nite in the building (immediately to your left). They sell tickets for all the major shows at half price. Of course not all shows are always available and the tickets are for that night. There's a also a Tix 4 Tonight (http://www.tix4tonight.com/location.htm) just North of it, and one practically in front of the Riviera.

[exarch]

The drink you're referring to is called the "Warp Core Breach" and as it contains 10 oz's of alcohol, yes..threee people. It's $25.

Is that like those margerita bongs that people walk around with? With shoulder strap so they don't have to carry it?

[Antiquehunter]

Nope - if its the drink I'm thinking of, its served in a big snifter / fishbowl thing and has dry ice smoke pouring out of it. The ridiculous margarita bongs are available elsewhere - not in a classy joint like the LVH. Maybe the Riv? ;)

[kittynh]

yeah, so I need 2 other people to drink that with me! One other to take a photo for my friend, and 2 really strong guys to carry me back to my room after I pass out.

I have a very low alcohol tolerance...in other words I'm a cheap easy date.

You think I'm nice here on the forum? Get a Romulan Ale in me, and I'll give you diabetes I'll be so sweet!

[SkepticScott]

Get a Romulan Ale in me, and I'll give you diabetes I'll be so sweet!I don't think Vegas could take that! You'd turn it into a city of puppies, butterflies, and flowers.

[exarch]

Nope - if its the drink I'm thinking of, its served in a big snifter / fishbowl thing and has dry ice smoke pouring out of it. The ridiculous margarita bongs are available elsewhere - not in a classy joint like the LVH. Maybe the Riv? ;)

Actually, when I said "like", I meant quantity and alcohol-content wise.
Perhaps I should have clarified, but, it's TAM, and you were at previous events, so maybe not ...

[exarch]

I have a very low alcohol tolerance...in other words I'm a cheap easy date.

So is that a heredetary property you think?

:D

[kittynh]

bad exarch! But someone could use feeding....

So, I don't know if this counts as savings or not, but I bought a little black leather skirt, and tried on my whole "TAM forum party outfit". Pool Boy called in our daughter and said, "Look honey, mommys going to work to pay for our room in Vegas! In fact, we may be able to afford a good show!"

You know...I'll bet the spiked heel hurt when it hit him.

[Jeff Wagg]

So is that a heredetary property you think?

:D

Kitten will drink you under the table and then leave you there in a pool of your own fluids.

[Fitter]

...under the table and then leave you there in a pool of your own fluids.
Been there, done that.

[exarch]

Kitten will drink you under the table and then leave you there in a pool of your own fluids.

A) I'm skeptical.
B) I tried to find out last year, but she stood me up. (Actually, through a misunderstanding, she was waiting in the wrong spot, and after 10 or 15 minutes, we left without her).

C) I'm up for a re-try of this test next TAM ...