Gordon Smith

[rich_m]

Hi all, first thread here, please be gentle... :)

Does anyone here have any ionformation on the medium Gordon Smith, specifically him being tested by the "Scottish Society for Psychical Research". It was mentioned in Mr Randis weekly column of April 30th 2004, but I can't find any other references to it, or a copy of the paper that published the results.

I've been told by someone that he was tested under triple blind conditions and "passed", and that the results of the test have been peer reviewed. Now, my ********-o-meter has gone off the scale at this, and I can't find any other information about these tests, which makes me think I'm right, but it would be nice if anyone else can give me some more info to back this up.

Thanks in advance...

[TobiasTheViking]

there is no such thing as triple blind. So anything claiming to have been triple blinded you can safely disregard as nonsense.

[Overman]

What the hell is triple blind?

:cookieeat

[scotth]

Add to Tobias' statement.....

If a medium was demonstrated to be genuine under properly blinded conditions, and that was peer reviewed and confirmed:

1) You would not need to be searching for it, it would be headline news around the world.
2) There would be Nobel Prizes awarded.
3) And every woo website on the planet would trumpet the result with a giant "told ya so".

[rich_m]

Yeah, kinda exactly what I was thinking - does anyone know anything more about this "Scottish Society for Psychical Research"?

Again, I'm detecting large amount of bulls*it :)

[rich_m]

"Triple blind" is refered to in a paper I've found (but can't post the link to yet coz I've not done enough posts) which seem to be a document looking at the protocols used in this so called testing....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

What the hell is triple blind?

:cookieeat

Triple-blinded is an idea that has been kicked around, but I've not heard of it implemented. An example would be:
Testing new bloodpressure med; have it prescribed by doctors, to patients, but neither the doctor, nor the patient, know a study is occurring. Some of the bottles are placebo, some are real.

The jist behind the triple-blind is that not only do the participants not know if they are control group or not, but they don't even know they are in the study.

[Overman]

The SSPR began in the early 60s/late 50s. They were trying to develop super soilders to counter America's successful Captian America project. The end result was the movie Braveheart, which enjoyed moderate success at the show and in DVD sales.

:hypnodisk :hypnodisk :hypnodisk :yinyang: :twocents:

[Overman]

Triple-blinded is an idea that has been kicked around, but I've not heard of it implemented. An example would be:
Testing new bloodpressure med; have it prescribed by doctors, to patients, but neither the doctor, nor the patient, know a study is occurring. Some of the bottles are placebo, some are real.

The jist behind the triple-blind is that not only do the participants not know if they are control group or not, but they don't even know they are in the study.


Sounds like a good idea for results...but this may bring up ethical questions....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Sounds like a good idea for results...but this may bring up ethical questions....

I'm sure there are better examples; I just couldn't think of any.

[imagineNoReligion]

From his website :
http://www.thepsychicbarber.co.uk/about2.html


Gordon has worked with Professor Archie Roy, Emeritus Professor of Astronomy at Glasgow University and Tricia Robertson of the Scottish Society for Psychical Research. Both are trying to establish a scientific approach to studying the evidence given by mediums to their recipients in order to dispel the age-old claim of the sceptic that information given by mediums is no more than general.


If his website is up to date, it doesn't look like he has actually been tested. I don't like the tone of that quote, looks like they are starting out with a bias, which doesn't give me confidence of a rigorous double blind test being administered.

Professor Archie Roy is founding president of http://www.sspr.co.uk/ and according to Smith's site considers Gordon Smith a good friend.

If you read through the SSPR site, it looks like they are just a bunch of believers with no scientific evidence.

Here's an example :


Historical psychical research covers many topics but it is a fact that the careful and prolonged studies by psychical researchers, sometimes over decades, of mediums such as Mrs Piper, Mrs Leonard, Mrs Willett, Mrs Garrett and Miss Cummins have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt to anyone of open mind that these psychics again and again could acquire knowledge in a paranormal manner.

[ObscureReferenceMan]

AW - close, but not quite right. I had asked this question a while ago, and someone gave me an example very similar to what you said. But it's that the "patients" don't know which they're taking, the doctors don't which they're giving, and the people who compile the results don't know which is the drug and which is the placebo (I assume they compile/crunch data using some kind of code numbers which get translated later).

[scotth]

My findings are as imagineNoReligion's. Just not as fast.

ETA: and my conclusions were pretty much the same as well.

[Azrael 5]

I have written many posts and a transcript at one point,wether thats still around I dunno,I even had email exchanges with a silly woman from the SSPR about White Crows!! He had a regular spot on some online radio show(where I got the transcript)Hay House radio I recall.
He was on This Morning with Chris French today but I missed most of it.
Forgot to mention..he's a fraud.Welcome to the madhouse rich m :D

Here is white crow thread
http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=51791&highlight=Gordon+Smith

Psychic Barber thread
http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=54266&highlight=Gordon+Smith

Lastly
http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?t=46961&highlight=Gordon+Smith

Randi's Commentary
http://www.randi.org/jr/043004bad.html#1

[rich_m]

Hmmm, has anybody got any more information on this paper mentioned in Randis commentry? I know he's a fraud like every other medium out there, but I'm currently involved in a debate elswhere where some "believers" are jumping up and down with glee about this so called test citing it as "proof"....

[scotth]

Hmmm, has anybody got any more information on this paper mentioned in Randis commentry? I know he's a fraud like every other medium out there, but I'm currently involved in a debate elswhere where some "believers" are jumping up and down with glee about this so called test citing it as "proof"....

I would suggest asking them to produce it, if they are citing it as proof.

[grayman]

I would suggest asking them to produce it, if they are citing it as proof.

Excellent suggestion!

Whenever you have to deal with people like that, always remember to ask, "Your evidence?"

[rich_m]

I would suggest asking them to produce it, if they are citing it as proof.

Come on now, you don't think something so simple would satisfy a true believer do you?

They have read it on the internet, it MUST be true :D

[scotth]

Come on now, you don't think something so simple would satisfy a true believer do you?

They have read it on the internet, it MUST be true :D

You miss the point. If they are citing the paper as proof, they must have a copy of it for your to examine.

[rich_m]

You miss the point. If they are citing the paper as proof, they must have a copy of it for your to examine.

Nah, I get the point, but I'm just beginning to get that "head against a brick wall" feeling :D

[scotth]

Nah, I get the point, but I'm just beginning to get that "head against a brick wall" feeling :D

Oh.... there are plenty more around here to refresh that feeling every day.:eye-poppi

[bruto]

What the hell is triple blind?

:cookieeat

I guess there's been a sort of explanation of "triple blind" now, but my first guess was that in this case it means to do a double blind experiment and then ignore the results.

[Soapy Sam]

Yeah, kinda exactly what I was thinking - does anyone know anything more about this "Scottish Society for Psychical Research"?

Again, I'm detecting large amount of bulls*it :)


So happens I am a member of the SSPR.

Which particular bs did you have in mind?

[brodski]

So happens I am a member of the SSPR.

Which particular bs did you have in mind?

Well there's this from their website for a start


Historical psychical research covers many topics but it is a fact that the careful and prolonged studies by psychical researchers, sometimes over decades, of mediums such as Mrs Piper, Mrs Leonard, Mrs Willett, Mrs Garrett and Miss Cummins have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt to anyone of open mind that these psychics again and again could acquire knowledge in a paranormal manner

Link (http://www.sspr.co.uk/)

ETA I see that my link doesn't take you directly to the bit I quoted, click on the link labeled "research" on the left hand bar.

[Gr8wight]

I guess there's been a sort of explanation of "triple blind" now, but my first guess was that in this case it means to do a double blind experiment and then ignore the results.

This made me laugh out loud. Bruto, you are now responsible for my cat looking at me in alarm.

[Explorer]

There is some reference to "triple blind" testing here in this dowsing account of so-called Psi tracks:

http://www.newphys.se/fnysik/3_1/dowsing/

[Soapy Sam]

There are some good people in the SSPR- In particular, I have a great deal of respect for Archie Roy, still a fine lecturer at 80. As a student, I attended several excellent astronomy lectures he gave , as well as having a couple of enjoyable arguments about the paranormal.

I don't think I'll offend anyone there if I say that the general ethos of the SSPR is definitely less than sceptical about the paranormal. That's why I think organisations like the SSPR- which actually are trying to investigate paranormal claims- would benefit from more sceptics joining up.
So anyone within an hour or two of Glasgow- the SSPR holds monthly lectures (generally 1st Thursday) in the Boyd Orr building at Glasgow Uni. 3 Quid to non members. There's usually a bunch in a bar or coffee shop afterwards. Go along, but not to heckle. Contribute by example. Nobody has thrown me out yet.