Questions for Steven E. Jones

[Kryptos]

In a debate, what questions would you like to ask Steven E. Jones?

[Anti-sophist]

Why are you unwilling(afraid) to publish your paper(s) in a reputable scientific journal?

[Brainster]

1. Describe for us the chain of custody that led to your possession of steel from the World Trade Center.

2. Would you be willing to put the additional steel from the World Trade Center that you claim to possess through independent testing?

[Josh Redstone]

Why use sulphidation in the WTC steel for your argument that Thermate was used to destroy the towers? Why not look for the bi-products of Barium Nitrate, which should have been present in much larger quantities assuming thermate was used.

[Trigood]

Why do you doubt that massive damage to both core and external columns, combined with intense fires (and accompanying heat) working on steel that was virtually unprotected due to fireproofing that was (1) originally inadequate and (2) 60% destroyed by plane impact, might lead to global collapse of the towers?

Follow-up question: Leslie Robertson, the towers' structural engineer, accepts the above scenario as scientifically rigorous. Do you believe that you know more about the structures of the towers than he does?

(OK, the second question is perhaps "hostile," but, oh well...)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

1. In your PDF file where you quote an NIST reasearcher as stating that extremely high levels of Diphenylpropane-3 were found in samples taken from the WTC, why did you leave out the full context of wherein it was also stated that the diphenylpropane-3 likely resulted from the copmbustion plastic office products?

2. In your PDF file, you devote an entire page to promoting Rick Ratjers as yet unwritten response to a 9-11 anti-conspiracy site. Furthermore, a short passage from Ratjer on what Silverstein's insurance payout is hilighted in red. Do you believe that someone whose belief system is based almost entirely on racial and religious hatred can be relied upon to give an accurate assesment of the guilt of someone who is jewish like the oft discussed Mr. Silverstein?

[defaultdotxbe]

could you please demonstrate how thermite can cut trhough a vertical column?

[uk_dave]

Do you REALLY believe that Jesus walked amongst the Mayan?

I mean REALLY?

[R.Mackey]

Dr. Jones, I've brought along my zither today. Would you please read this sheet music and follow along?


Whether it's LIHOP, whether it's MIHOP, we have to find the truth to make this war stop... *bump*
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/99074546c81a23400.gif

Hat tip to Childlike Empress

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Do you REALLY believe that Jesus walked amongst the Mayan?

I mean REALLY?

Short answer: Yes.

As does myself, Bradk3 and Dr. A. Woodruff Miller, chairman of the BYU faculty of Civil Engineering.

"I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims".
- Dr. A. Woodruff Miller

The religious beliefs of mormons regarding Christ in the Americas have nothing to do with the antics of one ex-professor who has had to resign in disgrace from a church owned school.

In fact, if anything, now that Jones has been booted from BYU by a committee formed entirely of people who believe that Jesus visted the ancestors of the Maya, Aztecs and Incas, that belief is now an argument you can expect the twoofers to use.

[uk_dave]

hmmmmm

See I have a difficulty understanding how someone can be so right on one subject, and yet so wrong on another.

Or so wrong on one subject and yet so right on another.

No offense meant, but I feel that a scientist who promotes a theory based upon a religious ideology, is also a scientist who will promote a theory based upon a conspiratorial ideology. Neither are necessarily good science.

[MikeW]

Why, in an earlier version of your quote of Fire Engineering's Bill Manning, did you report him saying this...

Respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating [result] has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers.

When the complete quote said this (my bolding for the changes/ omissions):

However, respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating theory has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

hmmmmm

See I have a difficulty understanding how someone can be so right on one subject, and yet so wrong on another.

Or so wrong on one subject and yet so right on another.

No offense meant, but I feel that a scientist who promotes a theory based upon a religious ideology, is also a scientist who will promote a theory based upon a conspiratorial ideology. Neither are necessarily good science.

That is not the important question, the more important question is do you understand what a stingray spine looks like and why is the sting ray spine important to your research in the ancient American culture.
Did you even read Prof. William Sander s's research into the Ancient American cultures, before publishing your paper, can you read the ancient American glifts you actuarially put in your paper?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

The Question I would like to ask him now is why he did not look into the possible formation of Aluminum steel alloys, form the high impact collision and sand blasting effect, and why did he only follow Dr. Greening's suggestions when he is a physicist, and should understand the relationship of high energy reactions in the formation of natural endothermic and other compounds in the twin towers.
The experiments performed at BYU, were worthless, because they were too static it takes energy to break the oxide layer and then the metals react, even steel will burn in the collapse of the building, do to the energy and air currents providing enough oxygen to the already heated metal.
This is evident in the twin towers in the metal flowing out.
Your own paper points this out, what do you have to say about that?

[apathoid]

Have you actually tried horizentally cutting a steel beam with Thermite(ate/nano-Thermite/super-Thermite)? Why not?
Have you ever used Thermate(ate/nano-Thermite/super-Thermite)? Why not?

Can you cite a single building demolition that utilized Thermite in any way?

[chipmunk stew]

If your analysis is correct that some of the glowing-red material found in the rubble weeks after 9/11 was molten steel: how does this support your *-therm*te hypothesis?

[uk_dave]

Are you Alex Jones's father?

Supplemental: Does he know?

[Gravy]

Why did you write that 1,3 diphenylpropane sampled in the air at Ground Zero was evidence of "high-tech thermite arson," when the EPA report you cited said it was likely the result of burning plastics?

Oh, and can I get a hit off that?

[rcronk]

I have been communicating with Professor Jones via email (and once in person) for several months now. It's a strange coincidence, but I have been collecting questions for him since he recently asked me if I had any unresolved issues with his information. I have sent him a few questions so far (including the chain of custody, which he gave me addresses but not times or names) but I would like to know if anyone here was planning on compiling the above questions and submitting them to him. If so, then perhaps I could just add my own questions. If not, would you all mind if I gathered these questions and added them to my own list to submit to him? Let me know what the plan is. Thanks.

[uk_dave]

rcronk,

I think that's a fine idea.....

but you can...ummmmm.... omit my questions :D

[Pardalis]

Any relation with Jim Jones?

Indiana Jones?

or Grace Jones?

[rcronk]

Right - I would just be adding serious questions and eliminating duplicates, etc. So far it sounds like I can gather the questions in this thread to give to him. Let me know.

[Pardalis]

Rcronk, How do you know him?

[JamesB]

I would take it one step further. I will pay him $1000 if he can demonstrate how he can get thermite to make a clean angle cut through a steel beam like those at the WTC.

[chipmunk stew]

Right - I would just be adding serious questions and eliminating duplicates, etc. So far it sounds like I can gather the questions in this thread to give to him. Let me know.
Great idea. Welcome! :w2:

[chipmunk stew]

If your analysis is correct that some of the glowing-red material found in the rubble weeks after 9/11 was molten steel: how does this support your *-therm*te hypothesis?

Have you run experiments or otherwise established a baseline for:
a) how long it would take a thermite reaction cut through a WTC column?
b) how quickly the resulting molten material would cool?

[chipmunk stew]

Have you tried to replicate your GZ samples in the lab using some form of thermite?

[twinstead]

I'd like to know what his take is on the fact that the overwhelming majority of structural engineers and CD experts disagree with his findings.

[uk_dave]

I'd like to know what his take is on the fact that the overwhelming majority of structural engineers and CD experts disagree with his findings.


He probably imagines winning a nobel prize.

[twinstead]

He probably imagines winning a nobel prize.

I would fear the kind of malignant alternative universe that would allow someone like Jones to win a nobel prize....:boxedin:

[Kent1]

He probably imagines winning a nobel prize.

I could ask him questions all day. But he doesn't reply to me anymore.
Also ever section of his paper has major errors. One of these days I've have to write up a complete refution of every section.
(And his earlier more dishonest versions) He has to know what he's doing!!

I think the worst of it is blatent Academic Fraud by rewriting of sources.
Example, FEMA, Bill Manning.

[Gravy]

I would take it one step further. I will pay him $1000 if he can demonstrate how he can get thermite to make a clean angle cut through a steel beam like those at the WTC.You might want to make that "upright column," for clarity. :D

[JamesB]

You might want to make that "upright column," for clarity. :D

Actually I would be impressed if he could even get a clean angle cut through a horizontal column, but you are correct, an upright column would be the proper experiment.

[Kryptos]

Thanks for the great replies thusfar.

I think some of the questions and topics covered in the Jones v. Robertson podcast are good to ask again.

Even though the truthers like to highlight the fact that Leslie didn't touch on Building 7, or have free fall calculations on hand, he projected true expertise on the topic, while Jones dodged many of the questions.

Leslie explained about just how many demolition charges would have to be placed to satisfy the CD theory.

He then asked Jones how that effort could possibly have gone unnoticed by building occupants? Especially, given the global nature of the financial industry, with foreign markets open at all hours, the WTC was occupied 24x7.

[rcronk]

Professor Jones and I have a mutual friend. This friend started sending me Jones' early powerpoint presentations and his earlier drafts of his paper in Oct 2005. I saw things that just didn't make sense to me in them (and I'm just a software engineer) and so I started a dialog with him vie email. It lasted for a few months. I brought firemen testimony about WTC7 but he rejected it saying "I don't think there was that much damage". Of course proof of such damage would end up destroying the need to go looking for a demolition theory - I thought to myself. I didn't burn bridges with him though and I've tried to remain civil and respectful.

I went to one of his presentations at UVSC, a college near BYU, and I had a nice question typed up that asked why WTC 7 needed to be demolished if the thing was shown by firemen's transits to be moving all over and they set up a collapse zone several hours before it collpased. The guy who was screening the written questions at the end read my entire question (it was a bit long as I had to include the evidence in the question) but ultimately he didn't hand it to Jones. I went up and asked him myself and that's when he told me that he believed that there wasn't that much damage. He's a nice man but I disagree with him on several points. This to me is important because if my country is going to be divided, it had better be because of the truth, not lies or sloppy mistakes.

I brought up the vertical column issue with him in my email this past week and I gave him a link (apparently I can't post a link to another site until I've posted 15 times - well, it's at debunking911.com and it's called thermite.html) showing the same diagonal cuts being made by excavation crews. He hasn't replied yet but he did remind me that he didn't say that it was proven to be cut with thermite. That's a true statement, but I sat in that presentation and watched him imply that it was cut with thermite, much to the rejoicing of the other CT's that were in the audience. "Boy, we found the smoking gun this time." I think I was a minority that night. Apparently gravity pulls the melted materials downward and so making a diagonal cut, even though it's longer, is faster as the dripping slag pre-heats the metal below - so said a welder in some forum I read - sorry I don't have that reference with me.

Bottom line, I would think he would welcome my (and others') criticism and questions. In the end, it would only make his paper stronger by eliminating error - and whatever's left, he could take to NIST and get the answers he's looking for without looking like a CT.

Anyway, I'll monitor this thread for a while and gather questions. Before I submit them to him for answers, I'll post the list here for review.

[JamesB]

Thanks for the great replies thusfar.

I think some of the questions and topics covered in the Jones v. Robertson podcast are good to ask again.

Even though the truthers like to highlight the fact that Leslie didn't touch on Building 7, or have free fall calculations on hand, he projected true expertise on the topic, while Jones dodged many of the questions.

Leslie explained about just how many demolition charges would have to be placed to satisfy the CD theory.

He then asked Jones how that effort could possibly have gone unnoticed by building occupants? Especially, given the global nature of the financial industry, with foreign markets open at all hours, the WTC was occupied 24x7.

Don't forget to pass on my challenge. I figured that now he is retired he could use the money. :D

[Pardalis]

Why does he dismiss the firemen testimonies that indicated that they saw damages and believed the structure was due to collapse?

[rcronk]

I think he would say that he deals with evidence like physical samples and photos, video, etc. rather than testimony, but that didn't stop him from making assertions about how the structures "should" have collapsed, which is more of a structural engineering question than a question of physics. And those assertions were made with little or no evidence regarding the damage and structure of the buildings themselves.

I have other ideas about why he rejected the evidence, but that's just my opinion and is based on assumptions and so I'll keep it to myself.

[Pardalis]

Actually, my post was my question to him. :D

[Stankeye]

Apparently gravity pulls the melted materials downward and so making a diagonal cut, even though it's longer, is faster as the dripping slag pre-heats the metal below - so said a welder in some forum I read - sorry I don't have that reference with me.


This is true but only for a cut made by a man. Welders who want to cut a beam do so exactly like they did at the WTC, which we do see in the picture evidence, for the exact reason the welder stated.

If somehow you could get the Thermate to start along a diagonal it would not continue as gravity will pull it down and the same process which the welder discribes would take over as the metal would be preheated in front of it, but down with gravity, not along some straight diagonal course set up beforehand.

[rcronk]

Correct - I agree - the columns cut diagonally were cut by excavators trying to get steel out of the way. The question of thermite is moot at this point given the photos of other excavators cutting other columns at diagonals, etc. That topic should be closed at this point. I am still waiting for Professor Jones' reply to this to see if he will remove the column photo from his presentation.

It seems like as each of these many points are debunked, Jones always returns to his samples and the studies he has done on them. That's why I believe that the chain of custody (provenience in archaeological terms) for those samples needs to be the top question. Here's what he emailed me about the chain of custody:

"The provenience of the WTC dust sample is an apartment at 113 Cedar Street in New York City, NY."

"A monument constructed primarily from structural steel from the WTC Towers located at Clarkson University in Potsdam, New York, is the source of previously-molten metal samples"

I told him that we need names, dates, etc. of every person who touched these samples from ground zero to his hands. His assertions lead to charging our own government with mass murder and so his chain of custody needs to be as solid as a chain of custody for evidence gathered in a murder case. I already asked him for the additional information - names, dates, etc. Until a solid chain of custody is documented, his samples can't be considered evidence. If he has the information, then we can look to having third parties study the samples.

I have a vested interest in him not looking like a CT and not spreading disinformation. As I said before, this is my country and I don't want it further divided because of falsehoods or guesses or assumptions that get into the media as a result of Jones' and other's studies. I think he's jumping the gun and putting his stuff out there before it's been rigorously reviewed - even just by a clown like me.

[T.A.M.]

Ask him why he thinks someone would use "Thermite/Thermate" to Demolish the buildings, when in terms of Building Demolition, it would be a much harder explosive to place correctly, and it has had no track record in building demolition, and hence would have been used without any past record of success in this situation?

Given that numerous explosions were heard in the buildings anyway, the assertion that they used it for its "quietness" will not fly as an answer.

TAM

[stateofgrace]

The only question I would ask Jones is "Why”?

Why do you do this?
Why do you not accept you are mistaken?
Why do you support this odious group of individuals?
Why do you abuse the education that as been provided to you?
Why do you use 911 to promote yourself?

Why?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I would take it one step further. I will pay him $1000 if he can demonstrate how he can get thermite to make a clean angle cut through a steel beam like those at the WTC.

You just lost your money, surround the thermite in a device that causes a pressure differential so that when the thermite is activated by a strip of magnesium the pressure blows out the iron in a high pressure stream.
I have done it the trick is not to let all the thermite go off at once but to set the compound so that they burn more like a road flair at one end and build pressure as they go back though the container.
I got the idea from the solid rocket boosters on the shuttle, building up pressure as they do I just did the same thing sideways along a tube.
Only difference is I get Iron, the beam in question has black iron oxide slag on it.

I do not know if I am explaining the principal correctly, I am tire from work, had to interview some Attractive Women for a part in a video. Really boring tiring work. However I have to find just he right one, and that is almost impossible.

[JamesB]

You just lost your money, surround the thermite in a device that causes a pressure differential so that when the thermite is activated by a strip of magnesium the pressure blows out the iron in a high pressure stream.
I have done it the trick is not to let all the thermite go off at once but to set the compound so that they burn more like a road flair at one end and build pressure as they go back though the container.
I got the idea from the solid rocket boosters on the shuttle, building up pressure as they do I just did the same thing sideways along a tube.
Only difference is I get Iron, the beam in question has black iron oxide slag on it.

I do not know if I am explaining the principal correctly, I am tire from work, had to interview some Attractive Women for a part in a video. Really boring tiring work. However I have to find just he right one, and that is almost impossible.


You could not get a clean angle cut though, the side nearest to the container would begin to melt and drip down first. You would also need a rather large container to hold enough thermite to continue to push it through a thick beam (I think the ones at the WTC were as thick as 8 inches).

[twinstead]

You could not get a clean angle cut though, the side nearest to the container would begin to melt and drip down first. You would also need a rather large container to hold enough thermite to continue to push it through a thick beam (I think the ones at the WTC were as thick as 8 inches).

I would have to agree. I am sure it is possible, but the logistics that would be involved in setting it up, probably even more complicated than the very destructive and obtrusive setting of conventional CD explosives, seems insurmountable for two 110 story buildings.

Jones would have to be a moron to even suggest something like that.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

You could not get a clean angle cut though, the side nearest to the container would begin to melt and drip down first. You would also need a rather large container to hold enough thermite to continue to push it through a thick beam (I think the ones at the WTC were as thick as 8 inches).

You do not push the thermite, you use the thermite to create a super hot gas jet, that like a solid rocket exhaust, errodes the beam just like a torch.
The container burns as the thermite does, it is kind of like an Oxygen lance, only it melts the steel instead of burning it. True you would need a lot of thermite, and a lot of material to form the gas, but you said the cut could not be done, with a thermite device. I have built and tested a thermite and gas generating device that can cut though 2 inch steel pretty strait.
The difference however is the iron left form the thermite rusts, and the Black Iron Oxide does not.
Never bet that something can not be done, because someone will try to figure out a way to do it.
PS, if you could form a hot Oxygen jet it would cut the beam exactly like a torch, in fact I would say that an Oxygen lance was used on the beam in question, probably with a carbon shield to clean out the slag.
I have used one, they are neat.
Well got to go I have to look at photos of scantily clad Women Auditioning for a stage partner really is the worst part of my job, but without some one to hold a mirror without shaking, my neck is literally on the line.

[JamesB]

I have built and tested a thermite and gas generating device that can cut though 2 inch steel pretty strait.


That wasn't the bet though. I said an angle cut, and the beams at the WTC were much thicker than 2 inches.

You are correct though, if I word it vaguely enough, someone might figure out a way to technically meet the requirements, although it would be completely impracticle to use as a covert demolition device.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

That wasn't the bet though. I said an angle cut, and the beams at the WTC were much thicker than 2 inches.

You are correct though, if I word it vaguely enough, someone might figure out a way to technically meet the requirements, although it would be completely impracticle to use as a covert demolition device.

The angle does not matter, as long as the device, is positioned right, it would still cut strait though at an angle. I know the world trade center was much thicker than 2 inches, but 2 Inch stainless High temp steel, was all I had to test it on.
However it is impossible to get it to survive the Impact, of the planes. YOU are correct, it is impractical, however that is the only thing that would fit Dr. Jones's theory.

[rcronk]

The column issue is a moot point that has already been debunked with photographic evidence. Any other questions for Jones?

[Bubbers]

The only question I would ask Jones is "Why”?

Why do you do this?
Why do you not accept you are mistaken?
Why do you support this odious group of individuals?
Why do you abuse the education that as been provided to you?
Why do you use 911 to promote yourself?

Why?


Very well said. Especially the last point. Looks like the ones who are profiting off of 9/11 are the very hypocrites that claim that other individuals and groups are profiting from it.

[delphi_ote]

If the people involved in this conspiracy are capable of murdering thousands of people right in front of the public's eyes without getting caught, why do you think they've let you live?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The column issue is a moot point that has already been debunked with photographic evidence. Any other questions for Jones?

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I was taught as a youth to avoid the "wrong crowd" (mostly the kids at school who were into drugs and promiscuity).

I would really like to hear Jones explain if he knew that Rick Ratjer (http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/irans-president-questions-the-holocaust/) was a neo-nazi when he was giving Mr. Ratjer free publicity via church owned webservers?

If he was not aware of this, I would like to know if Dr. Jones intends to distance himself from Ratjer, Christopher Bollyn (http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html#bollyn)or any other white supremacists he may have been in contact with as part of the "truth" movement?

If he was aware of this, I would like to know how he reconciles these associations with the churches teachings on religious, racial and ethnic tolerance?

[jhunter1163]

Sword:

Sorry for the derail, but I have a question re: LDS racial/ethnic tolerance. Someone told me that blacks were not allowed to join the church until 1978. Is that true? And what are the relevant passages in the Book of Mormon re: this?

FWIW, my experiences with Mormons have been 100% positive. My best friend in the world is a Mormon, and his family is the nicest group of people I've ever known. I once asked him how it was that they got to be so nice, and he said "We're nice because we weren't allowed not to be growing up."

Just asking questions... :)

[Oliver]

In a debate, what questions would you like to ask Steven E. Jones?

What is your next Project? :D

ETA:

Will it be another flop? :D

Since you´ve proved that the NWO was a Hoax... :D

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Sword:

Sorry for the derail, but I have a question re: LDS racial/ethnic tolerance. Someone told me that blacks were not allowed to join the church until 1978. Is that true? And what are the relevant passages in the Book of Mormon re: this?

Yes, it's true.

Originally, african americans enjoyed the full range of priveledges and responsibilities in the early church. One of the earliest members of the Quorum of the seventy was a freed slave, Elijah Abel. But in the early 1800's, just after the foundation of the church, anti-mormon violence was rampant. The Governor of Missourri ordered all mormons to be shot on sight and the leader of the church was murdered while in state custody in Illinois. There were a number of contributing factors to the violence, one of them being the mormons abolitionist beliefs. In an attempt to stave off some of the violence, especially by those who would go on to form the Ku Klux Klan a couple decades later, church authorities revoked the right of african americans to be ordained to the priesthood.

The lifting of the ban on african americans recieving the priesthood came less than a year after the long forgotten Missourri Extermination Order had been rescinded. Had the church lifted it earlier, and atrted making inroads among the african american community, it is likely that the Klan or other hate groups would have exploited the Extermination Order to attack blacks with legal impunity in Missourri.

This is why I am so angered by Jones's "dancing with the devil" with regards to his relations with Ratjer and Bollyn. If they son easily deny the crimes committed against the jews, they likely would also deny the crimes committed against my ancestors (and those of Jones) as well.

Just asking questions... :)

That's ok, but you're going about it all wrong. If you have a question about structural engineering, you're supposed to ask a B-list television music composer. If you have a question about mormonism, you should ask a rastafarian. ;)

[jhunter1163]

Sword:

Thanks for clearing that up. The whole idea of Mormons being racist ran so completely counter to what I know of them, I figured there had to be more to the story. Good to know the elders' reasoning.

[LashL]

In addition to the several good questions that have been raised above, I would also ask him why he continually edits his "paper" without citing the myriad of changes he's made, without setting out the various versions of his "paper", etc. Engaging in such dishonest presentation is gross intellectual dishonesty among academics, yet Jones has done it dozens of times wrt his lame WTC paper.

I would also ask him how he has the audacity to claim that his "paper" is "peer reviewed" when it clearly is not. His answer to that should be good for a chortle.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I would also ask him how he has the audacity to claim that his "paper" is "peer reviewed" when it clearly is not. His answer to that should be good for a chortle.

Oh, but it is! (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4997804576359751731&q=collapse&hl=en)

Kind of...

In a way...

Depending on how you look at it. :/

[Kent1]

Oh, but it is! (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4997804576359751731&q=collapse&hl=en)

Kind of...

In a way...

Depending on how you look at it. :/

I've seen that video before. LOL! I love how he's thinks the stuff on the "fake Bin Laden" will be published in a high end journal.

[rcronk]

Attached is a zip file that contains a word doc file that contains a list of questions (and some of the answers he's already given) for Professor Jones. It's a draft, so it may have glaring problems - don't worry about formatting - I'm keeping track of the questions in a wiki and copied and pasted the wiki contents into this doc file for easy posting here. I have gathered the questions from this thread along with some questions I and others have for him. Give me some feedback. I plan on cleaning this list up and then prioritizing the questions and handing them to him five or so at a time so that none of them get neglected. Thanks for your feedback.

[GlennB]

Has Jones given up on his "pyroclastic flow" nonsense of late?

If not perhaps you could ask him about that, perhaps with reference to Hoffman's correction+withdrawal of his pyroclastic/pulverisation calculations over at the 911research.wtc7.net website?

[rcronk]

A quick search through the current version of his paper turned up no signs of the word "pyroclastic".

[Crazy Chainsaw]

A quick search through the current version of his paper turned up no signs of the word "pyroclastic".

Err your telling me that I went though all the trouble to figure out how a pyroclastic like flow could be created and actually doing it, and he gives up on it?

Oh well should I still document it?
I did it on a smaller scale with drywall dust and powdered concrete, and Molten metals.
It was simple and easy!

[twinstead]

Err your telling me that I went though all the trouble to figure out how a pyroclastic like flow could be created and actually doing it, and he gives up on it?

Oh well should I still document it?
I did it on a smaller scale with drywall dust and powdered concrete, and Molten metals.
It was simple and easy!

Dude. Your back yard must be a mess....

[Mobyseven]

Dude. Your back yard must be a mess....

Unless his property backs on to an active volcano...

As for a question: Why do you think that among all conspiracy theorists there isn't one single structural engineer to support the claims?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Dude. Your back yard must be a mess....

How did you know, actually it is a small farm, about 22 archers now.
Mostly wooded, with large trees some large multi Archer fields Deer, turkey, foxes, and skunks, raccoons, Opossums, Rattle Snakes, Copper Heads, and Poison Ivy.
In other words Paradise.
I did it on a smaller scale than at the trade center, friction with the particles in the air causes Metal and Oxygen reactions from the oxygen in the air. All you need is the metal molten then break the oxide coating violently, the metal heats itself and the particles retain the heat.

Yes I have been trying to clean up the back yard.

[rcronk]

In the word document (in the zip file posted above), there are some references I need to chase down. If you posted any of the following questions, please provide the requested references/clarifications. Thanks.

In item 14 "Quoting NIST", it says "why did you leave out the full context of wherein it was also stated that the diphenylpropane-3 likely resulted from the combustion plastic office products?" I looked in Jone's PDF at scholarsfor911truth.org (WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletel yCollapse.pdf) and I couldn't find a reference to diphenylpropane-3 in his paper. Is this from a previous or later version of the paper or is it in his presentation? Do you have the reference to the NIST quote?

In item 16 "Bill Manning Quote" do we have a reference to the original quote (i.e. a URL)?

Looks like item 18 is a duplicate of 14 - except that 18 says it was an EPA report and 14 says it was NIST. Which is it? If it's EPA, do we have a reference? I'll combine them once we figure it out.

Item 19 - Do we have names of structural engineers who disagree with him? Do we have URL's pointing to their comments?

That's it for now. Thanks for any help you all can provide.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I was wrong about the NIST quote. It was an EPA report as Gravy correctly stated in a following post. The PDF file is here. (http://www.journalof911studies.com/JonesAnswersQuestionsWorldTradeCenter.pdf)

Rick Ratjer is on page 36, discussion of 1,3 diphenylpropane begins on page 102.

Item 19; engineers disputing Jones' work. (http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm)

[dirtywick]

You do not push the thermite, you use the thermite to create a super hot gas jet, that like a solid rocket exhaust, errodes the beam just like a torch.
The container burns as the thermite does, it is kind of like an Oxygen lance, only it melts the steel instead of burning it. True you would need a lot of thermite, and a lot of material to form the gas, but you said the cut could not be done, with a thermite device. I have built and tested a thermite and gas generating device that can cut though 2 inch steel pretty strait.
The difference however is the iron left form the thermite rusts, and the Black Iron Oxide does not.
Never bet that something can not be done, because someone will try to figure out a way to do it.
PS, if you could form a hot Oxygen jet it would cut the beam exactly like a torch, in fact I would say that an Oxygen lance was used on the beam in question, probably with a carbon shield to clean out the slag.
I have used one, they are neat.
Well got to go I have to look at photos of scantily clad Women Auditioning for a stage partner really is the worst part of my job, but without some one to hold a mirror without shaking, my neck is literally on the line.

Just curious and OT:

I'm assuming you're using some kind of container to hold the thermite and direct the jet of heat. What kind of container is that? I mean, what material is it made out of?

It sounds like a cool super-torch! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the thing, but still pretty interesting.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Just curious and OT:

I'm assuming you're using some kind of container to hold the thermite and direct the jet of heat. What kind of container is that? I mean, what material is it made out of?

It sounds like a cool super-torch! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the thing, but still pretty interesting.

Thermite cutting torch (http://neyersoftware.com/Papers/NDIAFuze/ThermiteTorch.htm)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Did the good professor ever get back to us on these.

I understand time is not an issue for him these days. ;)

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Just curious and OT:

I'm assuming you're using some kind of container to hold the thermite and direct the jet of heat. What kind of container is that? I mean, what material is it made out of?

It sounds like a cool super-torch! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the thing, but still pretty interesting.

Here is some thing simular,
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:xN5dkMK9tZkJ:www.freshpatents.com/High-speed-chemical-drill-dt20041021ptan20040206451.php%3Ftype%3Ddescription +chlorine+patent+%22oxygen+lance%22&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1 I am not telling the exact details cause I am considering getting a patent for the device, but I can tell you it works in much the same way as the shuttles solid fuel rocket bousters only the outside does burn, but slower than the fuel. The Iron also stays inside the device, as it burns, the heated aluminum oxide is what cuts the metal.
The device also gives off super heated steam, as it is cooled from H20, can anyone tell me why that is Important?

I did say it could be done I did not say it would be easy.

[rcronk]

Did the good professor ever get back to us on these.

I understand time is not an issue for him these days. ;)


I haven't heard back from him on my original questions yet and I was waiting to get those replies before sending these questions. I'll resend my last set of questions to see if he's still responsive. Either way, I'll be posting a long story about my interactions with him over at ldspatriot.wordpress.com in the next little while. The story will go over the issues I found with his paper and presentation and what his reactions to me were. It should be an interesting read.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

LDSpatriot you say? Sounds like a Bensonite hangout. Are they pro-CT over there or do they stand behind the war on terror?

If they are both pro-CT and Benson fans, ask them how they reconcile following ETB with parroting the tirades of communist thug, Hugo Chavez?

EDIT: I just looked at ldspatriot, definately a more mainstream conservative LDS site. The above question to those in the church who cleave unto ETB and the 9-11 CTs still stands however. I would be interested to hear if they really think Benson would approve of the "Havana Truth Conference" hosted earlier this year by Castros brother (successor?) and attended by twoofers Ahmedinjad and Chavez.

[rcronk]

LDSpatriot you say? Sounds like a Bensonite hangout. Are they pro-CT over there or do they stand behind the war on terror?

If they are both pro-CT and Benson fans, ask them how they reconcile following ETB with parroting the tirades of communist thug, Hugo Chavez?

EDIT: I just looked at ldspatriot, definately a more mainstream conservative LDS site. The above question to those in the church who cleave unto ETB and the 9-11 CTs still stands however. I would be interested to hear if they really think Benson would approve of the "Havana Truth Conference" hosted earlier this year by Castros brother (successor?) and attended by twoofers Ahmedinjad and Chavez.

Yes, I've talked to him and he's definately NOT a CT. He gets quite frustrated with them actually. I used to get frustrated with them but it's a lot better now that I've stopped trying to convert them. My experience is that they will not be converted regardless of the evidence - so my motive is to put the other side of the story out there so that the "normal folks" who happen by can see both sides of the story instead of just the CT side. LDSPatriot is the one who asked me to write up my experiences with Jones.

I am interested in your question as I have heard a lot of Benson from my CT friends and I try to reconcile it with supporting a war on terror and in Iraq, etc. I feel that each president speaks for his time and so it could be that with a changing face of evil, we have a changing strategy too. Could you briefly quote or give a link to the Benson quote you're speaking of? I don't know if I've heard that one. Thanks.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

There's no single quote that can sum up Ezra Taft Benson. But his main pet issues (prior to his assuming the presidency following Spencer W. Kimball's death) were commies, the UN and secret combinations. Though he never used the words "New World Order", LDS NWO conspiracists gobble his stuff up and just assume that's what he was referring to.

I don't see how LDS who claim they follow ETB can side so easily with a real live commies like Chavez and Castro (Benson always hated Castro) and a UN that invites an these and other anti-american whack-jobs like Ahmedinjad onto US soil to spew 9-11 twoofiness.

[rcronk]

Part 4 of my interactions with professor Jones is now complete:

http://ldspatriot.wordpress.com/2007/01/12/911-steven-jones-and-me-part-4