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coberst
3rd November 2006, 03:56 AM
A many splendored thing

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Plato also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc. I find verification of Plato’s theory every time I see the relationship between mother and progeny in these documentaries.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

I find this theory of love makes sense. Do you agree?

Cosmo
3rd November 2006, 06:17 AM
Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

I find this theory of love makes sense. Do you agree?

Absolutely. In fact, those (surprisingly common) instances where mammalian mothers neglect, leave, or outright eat their young is of course love at its finest. :rolleyes:

Moochie
3rd November 2006, 06:27 AM
Yep, yep, yep...

My mother died three times giving birth to me, and she never let me forget that.

She's gone now, but not forgotten :D

M.

fuelair
3rd November 2006, 06:50 AM
Good Answers guys!! It's good to see a coberst thread where answers are possible!!!

Darth Rotor
3rd November 2006, 07:34 AM
A many splendored thing

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Plato also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc. I find verification of Plato’s theory every time I see the relationship between mother and progeny in these documentaries.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

I find this theory of love makes sense. Do you agree?
Plato's PoV strikes me as selfish, and narrow. The exercise of love goes beyond a communal search for truth. Love as a sacrifice, or sublimating, of selfish desires on behalf of another is an exercise of personal power, and empowerment, that need not be confined to the search for truth. Indeed, it is in the more mundane and simple exercise of small sacrifices for one another that love strengthens the bond between people. There is no required religious connotation in this position. This exercise can be made without any reference to a higher power, on a person to person basis.

Mothers eating their young isn't a human behavior I have heard about. Wasn't Plato's, and the OP's, context love between humans?

DR

coberst
3rd November 2006, 07:54 AM
Darth says--" There is no required religious connotation in this position. This exercise can be made without any reference to a higher power, on a person to person basis."

I assume you think that I am making some assertion about "a higher power" but I certainly did not intend to and cannot find it in my post.

Orangutan
3rd November 2006, 07:56 AM
This is a good thread Coberst! I think you have to look at the evolutionary advantages of the emotion of love. It's often to do with the protection of your ability to propagate your genes. Those with the closest gene's to your's you feel more love for, children and parents. And those with a vested interest in the same spouse and family. I'm sure there are people who you feel you would die for and these people are generally the people who share your genes.

Of course people are complicated emotional animals and we have the ability to substitute family members with other creatures like dogs and cats. For example I love my dog, if she is in distress I feel distress, but this is because humans have empathy and can extend their social group, the group that would normally hold a good number of the same genes, to others that really have no interest in propagating their genes. Of course when that line gets confused too you have to call the police.

Darth Rotor
3rd November 2006, 08:01 AM
I assume you think that I am making some assertion about "a higher power" but I certainly did not intend to and cannot find it in my post.
Not at all.

I was trying to input a disclaimer for my own post, to decouple my comments from any perceived reference to the commonly held Christian theme of the sacrifice/love relationship. The idea was to clarify my remark as "religion neutral," with the aim of pre-empting a derail down that line of discussion.

Apologies if that was unclear.

DR

coberst
5th November 2006, 05:09 AM
I think that we have taken a very basic emotion, love, and indiscriminately forced all kinds of nonsense into its container. We use this basic emotion to sell cars and houses and shoes and patriotism and all kinds of things in order to manipulate the citizens into doing what those with the power want us to do. This concept we call love, an abstract idea, is one of many that form the cape that the Matador uses to manipulate the foolish bull.

Glen.Nogami
5th November 2006, 10:11 AM
“Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

I'll agree with that, I suppose, just based on personal experience. As far as evolutionary psychology, would the urge to protect one's own already-extant genes supersede the urge to propagate them?