Republican opposes nude children

[UnrepentantSinner]

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/19/State/Nude_summer_youth_cam.shtml

Apparently the rigths of free assembly don't apply to nudists in Florida.

And this guy is running for the Senate. Couldn't he have chosen a more salacious issue to get his name in the papers?

[Diamond]

Does he know about Genghis?

[Genghis Pwn]

Foley, a fifth term congressman, denies that he's raising the nude camping issue to bolster his chances for the Republican nomination for Senate.

Lol, sure. :rolleyes:

Does this politician have any proof that kids become perverts, dropouts, sex maniacs, or crimimals due to their nudist upbringing? The burden of proof is on Foley, since he is the one trying to take away inherent freedoms from children and their parents.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn


Lol, sure. :rolleyes:

Does this politician have any proof that kids become perverts, dropouts, sex maniacs, or crimimals due to their nudist upbringing? The burden of proof is on Foley, since he is the one trying to take away inherent freedoms from children and their parents.

On Good Morning America today, his evidence largly consisted of a buzz word nudists apparently use to descibe people who appear untoward. "COGs," or "Creepy Old Guys."

I'm not a big fan of nudism/naturism/naturalism, but this effort by Foley sooooooo smacks of pandering to the Religious Right it just set off alarm bells for me.

[Samus]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
Apparently the rigths of free assembly don't apply to nudists in Florida. On the other hand, since when does an 11-year-old having naked time with other kids up to 18 years old sound wholesome? Aren't there consent laws that overrule the law allowing nudity?

Something about a nude teenager camp just doesn't sound right. Maybe it's my own perceptions about what is appropriate. For sure, I'm no religious zealot.

Am I the only one that thinks this is not quite right?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by dwb
On the other hand, since when does an 11-year-old having naked time with other kids up to 18 years old sound wholesome? Aren't there consent laws that overrule the law allowing nudity?

Something about a nude teenager camp just doesn't sound right. Maybe it's my own perceptions about what is appropriate. For sure, I'm no religious zealot.

Am I the only one that thinks this is not quite right?

As I said, I'm no big fan of naturism, but it sounds (sounds! I want to stress that dwb) that you're succumbing to the same mentality of Foley, et. al. Nude = sex. With nudists that's not the case as evidenced by decades of naturism and the apparent dearth of pedophilia cases being centered around them.

And don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to admit there's something terribly salacious about a bunch of naked 15-18 girls running around, but that's just my COGness coming though. I wasn't raised in a nudist household. (thank God)

[3-toed-sloth]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea. These are kids that are raised in nudist families, and there is plenty of supervision.

When the kids noticed a person acting kind of perverted around them the guy was kicked out of the camp.

I personally wouldn't go, I'm not into the nudist lifestyle. I don't have kids but I don't think I'd send my hypothetical kids there. Still, I think Mr. Foley is just pandering to the religious right/moral majority crowd.

Afterall this isn't some widespread trend, were are talking about 25 kids whose parents consented to letting then go to this camp.

[Samus]

I understand the assumption that nudity=sex. In fact, it's easy to jump to that conclusion.

However, my point was that children entirely too young to consent to many other things are allowed to attend this. Obviously it's not one big orgy, else it would have been shut down many years ago.

I guess it just seems dirty. I would feel dirty if I was one of the adult counselors that worked with naked teen boys for a week.

Adults that wish to be nudists are fine by me. It's not a lifestyle I choose to subscribe to, but I'm not in a position to cast judgement on those that do it. But young kids...they're already in the midst of the crazy puberty years, hanging out with their peers naked doesn't seem like it would help.

[Ipecac]

I'm with you, dwb.

[Genghis Pwn]

Again, where is the evidence?

[ShowMe]

Nudists have been doing this for years, and without any incidents. Amazing how the Senator has decided to overlook that point. (Not sure about Fla., but I know there's a camp in Va. that does this).

According to the nudists the kids have grown up around other nudists, this is a perfectly natural lifestyle for them. Sex is not really a problem; most of them say it would be like sleeping iwth a family member.

There are background checks done on everyone that works int he camp; again, the Senator overlooks that. And you have everyone watching out for each other.

There's nothing wrong going on here, except for the government thinking that it knows more about how to raise children than their parents do.

[Psi Baba]

While I find the concept a bit odd, this guy (Foley) is just being a piss-ant. Apparently this camp has existed for 10 years now. Have there been any reports of problems? Is there any evidence that kids who where in this camp early on have become disturbed or unbalanced adults? This congressman doesn't make references to anything like that. No. He just now found out about it (real informed this guy is), so suddenly it's wrong because he doesn't like the idea. :rolleyes:

[Leroy]

Something about a nude teenager camp just doesn't sound right. Maybe it's my own perceptions about what is appropriate. For sure, I'm no religious zealot.

Teens with their hormones in an uproar, in an all nude camp. What could be wrong with that? :D

[Genghis Pwn]

Adults have hormones and urges too.

It sounds like there is more responsible behavior happening at these nude camps than there was at the wilderness f*ckfests I attended as a teenager. :D

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Leroy


Teens with their hormones in an uproar, in an all nude camp. What could be wrong with that? :D

Thanks Leroy!

I saw a blurb about this story yesterday and that is about what I thought. I was not so worried about pedophiles (although that would be a valid concern), I already have a good idea of how teenage boys and girls act with their clothes on, so taking them off seems like one stupid idea.

I mean gee whiz, if I was a parent I would not send my kids to such a camp. I know how interested I was in girls when I was 15 so I would I expect my kids to feel about the same way.

[jimlintott]

For 10 years, young people ages 11 to 18 have gathered in Pasco and other Florida counties to pitch tents, swat volleyballs and sing around campfires.

Hard to pitch a tent when you're nude. Isn't it?

Now that I have the humour out of the way.

Nudity is absolutely healthy. Being naked is one of the greatest feelings ever. Very liberating. (Unless it's -40.)

Consider the young man who has always attended this camp. Now he is with his buddies at spring break. His buddies are all screaming for young ladies to expose themselves. Our young man is saying, 'what's the big deal, you guys never seen bare breasts before'.

Demonizing sexuality and nudity is the quickest path to sexual deviance. There is nothing wrong with sex, sexuality and nudity. Thinking that there is is a perversion.

Editted to add:
It just ocurred to me that some of the participants might have sex at this camp. I'm shocked. That would make this camp pretty much the same as Bible Camp.

[Genghis Pwn]

Originally posted by jimlintott


It just ocurred to me that some of the participants might have sex at this camp. I'm shocked. That would make this camp pretty much the same as Bible Camp.

Haha. Exactly.

[shemp]

It's really very simple. Nude teenagers don't vote. Self-righteous christian buttholes do. Do the math.

[kookbreaker]

Originally posted by jimlintott


Editted to add:
It just ocurred to me that some of the participants might have sex at this camp. I'm shocked. That would make this camp pretty much the same as Bible Camp.

"One time..at Bible camp..."

Don't Boy Scouts have several sexual "incidents" each year, ones where they prtoect the child molesters but actively ban the openly-homosexual-Scoutmaster-who-only-likes-adult-men?

Does the Catholic church go a day without an incident?

I hope the pandering backfires on this guy.

[Samus]

Originally posted by jimlintott
Consider the young man who has always attended this camp. Now he is with his buddies at spring break. His buddies are all screaming for young ladies to expose themselves. Our young man is saying, 'what's the big deal, you guys never seen bare breasts before'. Come to think of it, after the first 15 minutes of day one, when everyone got their staring and comparisons out of the way, I'd imagine this camp would end up like any other: fun, friends and s'mores.

The forbidden aspect of nudity is what gives it the allure. Normalize nudity, and you remove the mystique. Take away the assumption that nudity=sex, and you can probably run such a camp with a great degree of success.

Yeah...that's it...

I'm convinced! Nudity is the way! I'm taking off my clothes as we speak...hang on...adkdfg5lhO...oops, sorry about that.

Weeee! I'm freeee! :)

[kookbreaker]

Originally posted by dwb


I'm convinced! Nudity is the way! I'm taking off my clothes as we speak...hang on...adkdfg5lhO...oops, sorry about that.

Weeee! I'm freeee! :)

If you're nude, how come you're still wearing that tie?

[Leroy]

Adults have hormones and urges too.

I was a teen once. I wouldn't have trusted myself back then in a nudist camp. The temptation is the same with an adult, but the education and self control that comes with being an adult (at least for some) make the difference in a nudist camp.

[LW]

Originally posted by Leroy

I was a teen once. I wouldn't have trusted myself back then in a nudist camp.

But were you then accustomed in seeing people of the other sex nude?

I have never been in a nudist camp, but I have been in a mixed-company sauna dozens of times. Usually with people I know, sometimes with strangers. I can tell you that it is very asexual and you don't think about having sex there.

[Quinn]

Originally posted by Leroy
I was a teen once. I wouldn't have trusted myself back then in a nudist camp.

But I'm willing to bet you weren't raised in an environment where you and those around you were naked a lot of the time, and taught that it wasn't an issue. Am I right?

It's kinda like this: imagine yourself suddenly transported to a parallel universe where, say, navels are considered as taboo as breasts and genitalia. If you found some of your fellow transportees who didn't think there was anything particularly naughty about navels, and you all raised your kids that way, and decided to put together a summer camp where they could be free to hang out with their navels exposed... how would you feel if some political suckbutt from Florida came along ten years later and told you you couldn't do it anymore because it was turning your kids into deviants and sex criminals?

Quinn

[Leroy]

No I wasn't. I am really old :D

I can tell you that it is very asexual and you don't think about having sex there.

You are one in a million. I don't know of any male teens who would feel the same.

[Samus]

Originally posted by Leroy
You are one in a million. I don't know of any male teens who would feel the same. Actually, having been in communal same-sex shower situations as a teenager, I can honestly say you don't think about sex in there. You think about getting clean and getting clothed.

I would imagine if I was raised in an environment where nudity was not directly associated with sexuality, that these camps wouldn't be a big deal.

That said, I still question how appropriate a nude teen camp is.

[LW]

Originally posted by Leroy

You are one in a million. I don't know of any male teens who would feel the same.

I was 17 when I was first time in a mixed-company sauna with people other than family members.

My experience has been that practically all males see the situation as I do. Either that, or they are surprisingly good in concealing their sexual feelings.

In all my time I've witnessed only two sexually-loaded events in sauna. I don't go into details, but alcohol did influence both events. Actually, it might be more accurate to say that in both cases the actors were so drunk that they didn't know what they were doing (and the one in the first case didn't even realize he was in sauna) .

[jimlintott]

That said, I still question how appropriate a nude teen camp is.

It is still a question of personal freedom wih regards to raising children. I, personally am not in the slightest offended by nudity but the sight of a group of Boy Scouts really irritates me. I am offended by people who think it is okay to dress their children in uniforms. The psuedo miltary appearance of the Boy Scouts is not an acceptable influence for children. They'd be better off nude.

Okay, that is a bit extreme. I just wanted to demonstrate that different people have different feelings about things. This politician is way out of line by trying to ban this nude camp.

But, I'm afraid that Shemp is probably right.

[bjornart]

Originally posted by dwb
Actually, having been in communal same-sex shower situations as a teenager, I can honestly say you don't think about sex in there. You think about getting clean and getting clothed.

I would imagine if I was raised in an environment where nudity was not directly associated with sexuality, that these camps wouldn't be a big deal.

That said, I still question how appropriate a nude teen camp is.

Which just goes to show how deeply ingrained nudity=inappropriate is.

If it wasn't for the fact that I personally would be uncomfortable I think raising my (potential, future) children in a nudist environment would be much healthier than allowing them to grow up exposed only to the unrealistic perfection of media nudity.

It might even be I will never have any children because I can only enter into a meaningfull relationship (ie s*x) with someone of hollywood perfection. If I'd been conditioned to ugly, naked people from an early age, this wouldn't be a problem. ;)

[Leroy]

I would imagine if I was raised in an environment where nudity was not directly associated with sexuality, that these camps wouldn't be a big deal.

You make a good point.


My experience has been that practically all males see the situation as I do. Either that, or they are surprisingly good in concealing their sexual feelings.

That tells me I am really old :eek:

In my day guys and gals weren't best friends. My son has as many female friends as he does male friends. In the beginning I found it odd that one of his best friends was a girl. I thought they were dating. Turns out, she is his best friend, and her sister is the one he is dating. I am glad to see this.

[Leroy]

It might even be I will never have any children because I can only enter into a meaningfull relationship (ie s*x) with someone of hollywood perfection. If I'd been conditioned to ugly, naked people from an early age, this wouldn't be a problem

HaHa! Another good point!

[blackpriester]

Originally posted by jimlintott


Hard to pitch a tent when you're nude. Isn't it?

Now that I have the humour out of the way.

Nudity is absolutely healthy. Being naked is one of the greatest feelings ever. Very liberating. (Unless it's -40.)

Consider the young man who has always attended this camp. Now he is with his buddies at spring break. His buddies are all screaming for young ladies to expose themselves. Our young man is saying, 'what's the big deal, you guys never seen bare breasts before'.

Demonizing sexuality and nudity is the quickest path to sexual deviance. There is nothing wrong with sex, sexuality and nudity. Thinking that there is is a perversion.

Editted to add:
It just ocurred to me that some of the participants might have sex at this camp. I'm shocked. That would make this camp pretty much the same as Bible Camp.

Thank you Jim, exactly what my point would have been.
Although I have been living in the US for a long time and have an American girlfriend, I never understood the American problem with teen sexuality. in Germany and most European countries the age of consent is 13. Where is the problem with two 15-year-olds sleeping with each other (aside from their culturally-impaired parents being shocked about it)? Where is the harm? WHEN are people supposed to collect sexual experience?

Aside from that, it's happening anyway, no matter what you do...

[Ove]

Foley suggested the camps force kids to fixate on nudity during their impressionable, formative years. Normal teen sexual urges can become inflamed by the nakedness around them, he said.

"It's putting matches a little too close to gasoline," he said.


It seems to me that it is Foley's deranged mind that provides the gasoline. Nudity has nothing to do with sex except the fact that you normally are nude when you are doing it. I Denmark most beaches in summer are practically nude and while you may be "pitching a tent" for the first couple of minutes it quickly wears over.

Personally i get much more exited over a glimpse of some sexy lingerie but that's another story. ;)

You American's really need to get over that "nakedness scare" that has haunted you. The rest of us has discovered that queen Victoria is dead.:D