Are you a "Bright"?

[St_Hereticus]

Is your worldview free of supernatural and mystical elements? Then you are a "Bright (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)"! I am a Bright! James Randi is a Bright! Perhaps you'd like to sign up? Just go here (http://www.the-brights.net/)!

[Dancing David]

Parts of me are bright and other parts of me are dim.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Nice concept, bad name. All I can think of is that "Rainbow" is also a "Bright."

[Beleth]

Ironically, the only other situation I have ever heard anyone be called "a Bright" is in the roleplaying game In Nomine, where the players get to pretend they are angels and demons in a setting that assumes that the whole Judaeo-Christian religious structure is what's really going on.

"Bright" is short for "Bright Lilim", a member of a band of demons that were never angels to have fallen in the first place.

That's what I'll always think of first whenever I hear someone referred to as "a Bright".

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
Nice concept, bad name. All I can think of is that "Rainbow" is also a "Bright."
I am reminded of the Scientology term clear.

I am also reminded of the way negros/blacks/African-Americans have tried to change their name over time. It wasn't their name the racists hated, it was their skin color and that didn't change.

[Quinn]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin I am reminded of the Scientology term clear.


That was my first thought exactly. I admire Dawkins greatly, but I think he's missed on this one. I don't see how a snappy new term is going to make non-theism any more palatable to the masses. Homophobes hate gays just as much as they hate fags and queers.

Was anyone else reminded of the old Wayne's World skit where the coolest senior (played by Bruce Willis) came on the show to introduce the New Cool Word for the year?

Quinn

[apoger]

The whole bright thing is a word game. I don't think it will go far, but it's not a bad idea. Often perception is more important than reality. If this foolishness helps inspire any thought on the subject in the general community then it can't be all bad.

I haven't gotten many accolades for calling myself a secular humanist. ;)

[Phil]

I hereby disavow my association with any Nouns, and claim only an affililation with verbs. In particular (and among other) these:

Question
Investigate
Reason
Question
Postulate
Seek
Experiment
Question

and, of course

Think

[RichardR]

Well, the next time someone at a party asks me what sign I am (at least once a week), I’ll say I am a Bright. You know, the thirteenth sign, the one that doesn’t believe in superstitious garbage like astrology. I can’t wait.

[Roadtoad]

No, I'm definitely a dim. If I were a bright, I would be doing something other than abusing my body driving a truck. :D

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by apoger
The whole bright thing is a word game. I don't think it will go far, but it's not a bad idea. Often perception is more important than reality. If this foolishness helps inspire any thought on the subject in the general community then it can't be all bad.

I haven't gotten many accolades for calling myself a secular humanist. ;)

I think I'd have greater respect for you calling yourself a Secular Humanist. You're clear about what you believe, and not playing silly word games.

[c4ts]

This relies on the philosophy that language defines thought, and it is not one I particularly agree with. As far as atheism goes, I think it would be best not to have a word for it. "No religion" seems to work really well. That would be throwing off religious people who think atheism is an organized anti-religion or something. Not having a word for something which is not, really gets the message across, I think.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by c4ts
"No religion" seems to work really well. That would be throwing off religious people who think atheism is an organized anti-religion or something. Not having a word for something which is not, really gets the message across, I think. :)

[Yahweh]

I dont like the term "bright". It sounds too optimistic. I'm an atheist, not an optimist.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by Yahweh
I'm an atheist, not an optimist. They are mutually exclusive then?

[KS_SKEPTIC]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
Is your worldview free of supernatural and mystical elements? Then you are a "Bright (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)"! I am a Bright! James Randi is a Bright! Perhaps you'd like to sign up? Just go here (http://www.the-brights.net/)!

I am most definitely a Bright! My worldview is definitely free of supernatural and mystical elements but no matter what I call myself, I'll most likely will be misunderstood.
In the past I've called myself Agnostic and (when it came to a lack of belief in a god) everybody thought I wasn't for sure or that I didn't know. Then later I started calling myself an Atheist but that was also misunderstood because everyone assumes you had knowledge that one doesn't have. :(
Then I started call myself a Skeptic but that too was misunderstood because everybody tends to mix the word with cynic.
So like everything else I'm sure that calling myself a Bright will most definitely be misunderstood! :rolleyes:
But I'll say this much, it is so much better to be a Bright then to be a dimwit!!! ;) :eek: :D

[Suddenly]

I've been leaning toward liking "bright."

Not because of the whole movement idea, rather because I don't think there is a simple word that sufficently describes a belief system rejecting all of the paranormal and supernatural.

Agnostic: denotes wishy-washyness
Athiest: ambiguous meaning - "I know there is no God" vs. "There is no evidence of God, and I do not believe in things for which there is no evidence"

The larger problem with these words is that you can be an athiest and still be into astrology, etc. They only relate to a small part of the belief system, rejecting the traditional notion of a supreme being.

Secular Humanist: Too narrow, as above it only pertains to religion.

Materialist: Greedy?


What I guess will happen is the word will grow slowly in an "underground" sense, until some conservative or fundy decides to make stink about it. Then it will get interesting. We may be stuck with the term, for good or ill.

[DialecticMaterialist]

Even as a strong atheist and Dawkins fan I must admit this entire "Plan" sounds a bit silly and extreme. I usually agree with Dawkins but this entire thing sounds cultish and New Age.


The word "Bright" isn't even that interesting or creative. Perhaps if Dawkins came up with something that at least sounded cool, sounded respectable I would buy it. Some new word at least.

Not something that makes me feel very akward saying it, as well as rude/presumptuous. Not something so ambiguous.

As far as means goes this is an evolutionary dead-end.

Personally I have no problem with atheist, rationalist or materialist.

This whole "bright" thing sounds half-baked and Orwelian, as it implies non-brights are "dim" or dark.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by DialecticMaterialist
Even as a strong atheist and Dawkins fan I must admit this entire "Plan" sounds a bit silly and extreme. I usually agree with Dawkins but this entire thing sounds cultish and New Age.


The word "Bright" isn't even that interesting or creative. Perhaps if Dawkins came up with something that at least sounded cool, sounded respectable I would buy it. Some new word at least.

Not something that makes me feel very akward saying it, as well as rude/presumptuous. Not something so ambiguous.

As far as means goes this is an evolutionary dead-end.

Personally I have no problem with atheist, rationalist or materialist.

This whole "bright" thing sounds half-baked and Orwelian, as it implies non-brights are "dim" or dark.
How would you feel if we replaced the word "bright" with the word "Vendonika". I'm sure all the Vendonikan would agree that it does have a special "coolness" quality that the word "brights" is missing.

[Yahweh]

Yes... so cool I have to post it twice...

[ntech]

I think it wards off pre-conceived notions and is a good Idea.

I signed up.

.....Ok well I used my nose to sign up. If they ever let me out of this mental hospital I will write longer posts.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Yahweh

How would you feel if we replaced the word "bright" with the word "Vendonika". I'm sure all the Vendonikan would agree that it does have a special "coolness" quality that the word "brights" is missing.
"Vendonikan" definitely sounds cooler than "bright". The only down side I can see is that it sounds uncomfortably close to the surname of Erich von Daniken, the "Chariots of the Gods" proponent.

[Fun2BFree]

I have proposed -Nat- for naturalistic-- and to make people realize how annoying we are and that no matter how they swat at us with their silly religious ideas we are not going away...we are the Nats!

[ntech]

I just took a sharpie and blacked out "in god we trust" from all the bills in my wallet. I have decided to do that from now on as a mini protest. I'm sure that stores will still accept the cash.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by ntech
I just took a sharpie and blacked out "in god we trust" from all the bills in my wallet. I have decided to do that from now on as a mini protest. I'm sure that stores will still accept the cash.
If anyone asks, you can tell them you were testing to see if the bills were counterfeit.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'm a Brite. Brite is to Bright as Nite is to Night.

But I still like Skeptoid.

~~ Paul

[arcticpenguin]

We could call ourselves "Thetans".

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by RichardR
Well, the next time someone at a party asks me what sign I am (at least once a week), I’ll say I am a Bright.

I'm an "Ophiuchus". I think we're not compatible.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by phildonnia


I'm an "Ophiuchus". I think we're not compatible.


I don't care for "bright"...whether it is the potential for seeming arrogant, or perhaps the baggage that the adjective already comes with (as with the "what do you call someone who is not a bright?" comments). We need something equally suggestive of brilliance, but without the negative aspects of "bright". Something exceedingly cool, witty, charming, ...

It'll come to me....



ah, yes....


I've got it!



I'm not a Bright, I'm a Mercutian.




...think about it....:D ...

[bjornart]

I agree that 'bright' implies that everyone else is 'dim'. That's how I feel of course, but I don't want to walk around saying it. :D

Nah. I'm borrowing from someone else instead and will henceforth define myself as Pan narrans.

With a bit of extra interpretation this separates me (Man who knows he's a storytelling chimp) from the Homo sapiens out there ("Man" who thinks he is wise). The implication of course is that Pan narrans is wiser than Homo sapiens, but HS won't catch onto that. ;)

[Star Of The Sea]

The funniest thing about all this is the really weedy 'definition' that Dawkins gave for 'Bright'. So very little thought went into it. Dawkins sadly has shown himself to me in several articles as not being particulary 'bright' when it comes to a true understanding of the non-sensorimotor worldviews that he attacks. For example, his use of the word 'mystical' in the definition would exclude those who are sceptical but have a non-dualist, atheistic belief system, such as Buddhists and Taoists. As a Middle England WASP Dawkins only sees the Judeo-Christian hegemony and knows little about other paths. Still, I agree with him about 99% of the time.

Fortunately this wacky little club will not catch on.. not a chance in hell. Let's call a spade a spade!

be well

Luke

edited to add: actually on close inspection it was not Dawkins that coined the term. He's still hapless enough to endorse it though.

[DialecticMaterialist]

I'm sure all the Vendonikan would agree that it does have a special "coolness" quality that the word "brights" is missing.


Wel that's not saying much for Vendonikan..... ;)

[hgc]

Originally posted by RichardR
Well, the next time someone at a party asks me what sign I am (at least once a week), I’ll say I am a Bright. You know, the thirteenth sign, the one that doesn’t believe in superstitious garbage like astrology. I can’t wait.
Ha! Great solution. I am known in my circles as the nutjob that always answers the question of what sign I am with, "Don't have one. Opted out of the system."

Now I have a more satisfying answer.

No, wait. "Bright" is actually really stupid. I'll stick with my usual evasion.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Star Of The Sea
For example, his use of the word 'mystical' in the definition would exclude those who are sceptical but have a non-dualist, atheistic belief system, such as Buddhists and Taoists.

Buddhists are non-dualist? What is it then that gets reincarnated?

[livius drusus]

There is a thread on the topic at IIDB (The Brights! A new classification. (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55722)) which has gotten downright snarky on occasion. My perspective is best described in this quote from the Richard Dawkins of yore:

Perhaps the best of the available euphemisms for atheist is nontheist. It lacks the connotation of positive conviction that there is definitely no god, and it could therefore easily be embraced by Teapot or Tooth Fairy Agnostics. It is less familiar than atheist and lacks its phobic connotations. Yet, unlike a completely new coining, its meaning is clear. If we want a euphemism at all, nontheist is probably the best.

The alternative which I favor is to renounce all euphemisms and grasp the nettle of the word atheism itself, precisely because it is a taboo word carrying frissons of hysterical phobia. Critical mass may be harder to achieve than with some non-confrontational euphemism, but if we did achieve it with the dread word atheist, the political impact would be all the greater.

[BillyJoe]

Well livius, he is allowed to change his mind but, yes, I'd like to see Richard keep climbing the mountain instead of sliding down the slope. :cool:

[livius drusus]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Well livius, he is allowed to change his mind but, yes, I'd like to see Richard keep climbing the mountain instead of sliding down the slope. :cool:

Most assuredly his mind is his own to modify as he sees fit, but judging from his Guardian article (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html) on the issue, he hasn't addressed the meat of his own earlier objection to such euphemisms. He claims the brights movement (and I use the word loosely) is an exercise in consciousness raising, and yet, the examples he uses in the article (feminists and "man", homosexuals and "gay") are of people modifying the understanding of words currently being applied to them, not inventing new definitions of a word out of thin air and then applying it to themselves.

As Dawkins said in the passage I quoted above, to raise consciousness and make a strong political impact, the pejorative connotation of words like atheist needs to be exposed, refuted and driven into the ground. Making up cutesy terms and self-applying them is not what the gay rights and feminist movements he claims as meme-spreading role models have done. I really don't understand why he thinks the brights idea is comparable, particularly when he so clearly understood why it is not in bygone days.

[Pluton]

o.k., o.k. RTFM. But I still humbly propose 'light' instead of 'bright' for this concept, which I believe is a useful way to self-identify.
Regards
Pluton

[BillyJoe]

pluton,

light
bright
what's the difference
it's all just snuggles and cuddles anyway
give it up pluton

billyjoe

[slimshady2357]

Originally posted by Star Of The Sea
The funniest thing about all this is the really weedy 'definition' that Dawkins gave for 'Bright'. So very little thought went into it. Dawkins sadly has shown himself to me in several articles as not being particulary 'bright' when it comes to a true understanding of the non-sensorimotor worldviews that he attacks. For example, his use of the word 'mystical' in the definition would exclude those who are sceptical but have a non-dualist, atheistic belief system, such as Buddhists and Taoists. As a Middle England WASP Dawkins only sees the Judeo-Christian hegemony and knows little about other paths. Still, I agree with him about 99% of the time.

edited to add: actually on close inspection it was not Dawkins that coined the term. He's still hapless enough to endorse it though.



I think you're assuming this is just for atheists. I was under the impression it was more about not believing in anything supernatural what-so-ever. Total naturalism.

So they would want to exclude the Taoists and Buddhists as I've read them. That's why they use mystical, it's about naturalism, not just atheism.

Anyway, that's just the understanding I have.

And the name sucks. Brights :rolleyes:

I agree Star, this isn't going anywhere.

Adam

[St_Hereticus]

Originally posted by RichardR
Well, the next time someone at a party asks me what sign I am (at least once a week), I’ll say I am a Bright. You know, the thirteenth sign, the one that doesn’t believe in superstitious garbage like astrology. I can’t wait. When asked my sign, I reply "Yield".

[Ruby]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
Is your worldview free of supernatural and mystical elements? Then you are a "Bright (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)"! I am a Bright! James Randi is a Bright! Perhaps you'd like to sign up? Just go here (http://www.the-brights.net/)!

I am only part bright!!!;)

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by Ruby
I am only part bright!!!;) We can count you out too, Ruby?

[Ruby]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
We can count you out too, Ruby?

I have not come to a point of saying there is not a God. I still believe in a Creator, but not sure in what way I view him. That excludes me from being a "bright".:(

[KS_SKEPTIC]

Originally posted by Ruby


I have not come to a point of saying there is not a God. I still believe in a Creator, but not sure in what way I view him. That excludes me from being a "bright".:(

What makes you think God is a him?
What if God is a she?:eek:
What about a it?
:wink8::roll:
I'm just joking but it was questions like this that made me really look deeply into what religion was really all about.
And what I saw really made me sick on how religious people treat each other and those who are not a part of their group.
As time went on I started viewing God in the same way I view Santa Claus.
You simply outgrow it. :)

[Ruby]

Originally posted by KS_SKEPTIC


What makes you think God is a him?
What if God is a she?:eek:
What about a it?
:wink8::roll:
I'm just joking but it was questions like this that made me really look deeply into what religion was really all about.
And what I saw really made me sick on how religious people treat each other and those who are not a part of their group.
As time went on I started viewing God in the same way I view Santa Claus.
You simply outgrow it. :)

:eek: :D

[BillyJoe]

Ruby,

Originally posted by Ruby
I have not come to a point of saying there is not a God. I still believe in a Creator, but not sure in what way I view him. That excludes me from being a "bright".:( Sorry, I misunderstood you.
I am not a bright either but for an entirely different reason.

BillyJoe

[xouper]

Pluton: ... I still humbly propose 'light' instead of 'bright' for this concept, which I believe is a useful way to self-identify.Light is already taken by the New Agers. For example, the registered trademark Lightworker®.

http://www.lightworker.com/

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by St_Hereticus
Is your worldview free of supernatural and mystical elements? Then you are a "Bright (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)"! I am a Bright! James Randi is a Bright! Perhaps you'd like to sign up? Just go here (http://www.the-brights.net/)!

There is a Simpson episdoe where the nerd-types in the school form a club called the Superfriends. This is what came to mind when I heard of this Brights thing. Even if I was sympathetic to the views of Dennet/Dawkins (which I am not), let's face it. It's an embarrassing name/concept. I mean...it's just flat out LAME, you know?

-Elliot

[volant]

I am such a bright, my father calls me "sun."