Scools Board member calls students Faggots

[Dancing David]

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17472440&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6


Board member says
'F-word' about gays
By: Larissa Theodore, Times Staff
11/16/2006

AMBRIDGE - An Ambridge Area School Board member's derogatory remark, made during a public meeting last week and in reference to a new gay and lesbian extracurricular club, had several residents calling for his resignation Wednesday night.



Mary Jo Kehoe of Economy told the board Wednesday she couldn't believe her ears so she jotted down what Ambridge School Board Vice President William Scherfel said when he referred to the high school's new Gay-Straight Alliance group as a "sex club" during a Nov. 8 work session. She said when two board members tried to correct Scherfel's politically-incorrect blunder by telling him the club's formal name, Scherfel replied, "OK, the faggots."

"I personally found it very offensive," Kehoe said.

Adam Smith of Ambridge, the senior who founded the club, also found Scherfel's words distasteful. He said the club's mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia. He invited Scherfel to a club meeting. He also asked for a written apology and Scherfel's resignation.

"It's uncalled for, and it's wrong," Smith said.

Scherfel didn't deny he used "the F-word," but blamed the controversy on politics.
...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

He called them cigarettes? :confused:

[Ryokan]

He called them cigarettes? :confused:

No, that's fags.

[Timble]

Faggots are a type of large meatball....why would he call people meatballs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)

[Upchurch]

He called them cigarettes? :confused:
fagots are bundles of wood.

[CFLarsen]

fagots are bundles of wood.

No, they are bassoons.

Or, "FArlig GOdsTransport", a computer system I once worked on...

[bob_kark]

Scherfel didn't deny he used "the F-word," but blamed the controversy on politics.

Yes, politics have made me the raging asshat I am today. What kind of asshat you may ask? The kind of bigoted asshat that can't pull my head out of my ass long enough to realize that I'm name calling (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2952537.stm) a group of children that already face intolerance on a daily basis from their peers in a public forum so everyone can know how sick and depraved these little "faggots" are while they're unable to defend themselves.

I wish I had the self control to realize that I'm one of the biggest dicks on the planet. Damn you politics, you've made me the shallow asshat of a man that I am today.

[zenith-nadir]

Mary Jo Kehoe couldn't believe her ears when William Scherfel said "the faggots." Must be slow news day at the Times. ;)

[Dr. Imago]

The locals are definitely not known for being all that tolerant up here in "Penntucky". No small irony that this was published in the "Beaver" County newspaper...

-Dr. Imago

[Dancing David]

Mary Jo Kehoe couldn't believe her ears when William Scherfel said "the faggots." Must be slow news day at the Times. ;)

Well, it is in Beaver County, I feel i should go back to scholl to learn top spell school.

[Beerina]

Faggots are a type of large meatball....why would he call people meatballs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)

Dave Letterman once showed a can of "Faggots and Peas". After 20 years, I finally understand.

[Antiquehunter]

Wow. I can't imagine this induhividual being able to retain his position in any private sector environment.

Politics may have made him a total asshat, but politics will probably save his bacon. At least until the next election, one can hope.

Speaking of asshats - isn't it time for someone creative to come up with an asshat smilie?

[steverino]

"Adam Smith of Ambridge, the senior who founded the club, also found Scherfel's words distasteful. He said the club's mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia. He invited Scherfel to a club meeting. He also asked for a written apology and Scherfel's resignation."

Adam Smith fullfilled the mission of his club, to promote diversity. As Scherfel openly found the club repugnant, his opinion was truly diverse. Deal with it, people.

[Antiquehunter]

By your logic Steverino, Adam's mission to 'confront discrimination and homophobia' was also successful in showing Scherfel's overtly discriminatory and homophobic attitude to all and sundry?

[steverino]

By your logic Steverino, Adam's mission to 'confront discrimination and homophobia' was also successful in showing Scherfel's overtly discriminatory and homophobic attitude to all and sundry?

Interesting point. And for the record I was called a faggot by my JH gym teacher which scarred and stygmatized me amoung my peers at that difficult age at a time my big brother died, and I had few worthy male role models around. I am no fan of Scherfel.

Maybe the answer is that you cannot have it both ways, wishing for diversity AND pointing out discrimination.

I mean I wasn't born yesterday. I get it. The newspaper said "A diverse crowd attended Rosa Park's funeral, including Maya Angelou and Elton John and Hillary Clinton." I get it. One is white, another is gay, and another is a senior poet (and gay maybe.) Diverse. But then I heard Condi Rice was not invited. So how diverse is it. This is not a perfect metaphor as Condi was not "anti-Rosa Parks" like that screwball Scherfel on the schoolboard was anti-gay, but you catch my meaning I hope.

[TragicMonkey]

Adam Smith fullfilled the mission of his club, to promote diversity. As Scherfel openly found the club repugnant, his opinion was truly diverse. Deal with it, people.

Wishing for diversity doesn't mean anything and everything is acceptable. We also believe in freedom of religion, but that doesn't mean we'd accept a religion that required human sacrifice. Freedom of speech doesn't include libel or threats. Right to bear arms doesn't include ICBMs.

[Charlie Monoxide]

My sister works for FAG in Startford, Ontario. They don't make swishy things, but they do make quality bearings.
http://www.fag.com/content.fag.de/en/company/history/from-1946-to-1984/history-1981-2000.jsp

Charlie (ad homs to the rescue of a bad point) Monoxide

[Darth Rotor]

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17472440&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6
I never understood that 'faggot' applied to lesbians as a perjorative. I think it is solely a male directed insult. Whatever offense given, this gent is guilty of rotten usage in his lumping all under that 50 % universal descriptive epithet "faggot."

Fer flock's sake, mister, you are in the education business! Expand your vocabulary! :p Oh, and since you are dealing with teenagers (not "children"), you need to use more care in your word selection. Most of these adults-on-the-cusp are sharp enough to catch you at being an asshat, and you will be called on it.

Lack of gray matter for fifty, Alex. :p

DR

[daredelvis]

Maybe the answer is that you cannot have it both ways, wishing for diversity AND pointing out discrimination.



That is some real twisted logic. If, for example, the Holocaust musume invites people from various backgrounds to discuss genocide, and does not invite a representative group of Holocaust deniers, it would not be a diverse group?

Sorry, I'm not gay, I do wish for diversity, and I feel that people who make bigoted moronic comments like those in the opening post should be condemned.

Daredelvis

[ponderingturtle]

I never understood that 'faggot' applied to lesbians as a perjorative. I think it is solely a male directed insult. Whatever offense given, this gent is guilty of rotten usage in his lumping all under that 50 % universal descriptive epithet "faggot."

Fer flock's sake, mister, you are in the education business! Expand your vocabulary! :p Oh, and since you are dealing with teenagers (not "children"), you need to use more care in your word selection. Most of these adults-on-the-cusp are sharp enough to catch you at being an asshat, and you will be called on it.

Lack of gray matter for fifty, Alex. :p

DR


This is very true, people are useing so many epithets incorectly, like in the recent senate race when that guy used an epithet specific to africans against a south asian.

People use your language correctly, spend time learning the correct epithets and their use.

To be sufficiently inclusive he should have said "Faggots and Dykes"

[Tricky]

Faggots are a type of large meatball....why would he call people meatballs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)
Yes, this whole thing would have been a non-issue had Alka-Seltzer gone with its original wording in their 1970's commercial:

"Mama mia! Dat's a spicy faggot!"

[steverino]

That is some real twisted logic. If, for example, the Holocaust musume invites people from various backgrounds to discuss genocide, and does not invite a representative group of Holocaust deniers, it would not be a diverse group?

Sorry, I'm not gay, I do wish for diversity, and I feel that people who make bigoted moronic comments like those in the opening post should be condemned.

Daredelvis

Again, I simply say this is an intriguing topic. The word "diversity" is a PC term that has come to mean "A healthy variety of varying points of view that boil down to the same point of view." If you have still a different point of view, bug off! To use the holocaust or human sacrafice is kind of using an extreme which serves to miss the point. (Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")

[ChristineR]

Anyone who thinks a "gay-straight alliance" is a sex club needs to get laid more often. Sounds like he has "gay alliances" on the brain.

[Darth Rotor]

(Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")
Wasn't he an artist, or at least an art student? Isn't it possible he created a few pretty paintings, even if he didn't produce any masterpieces? :confused:

DR

[ChristineR]

Again, I simply say this is an intriguing topic. The word "diversity" is a PC term that has come to mean "A healthy variety of varying points of view that boil down to the same point of view." If you have still a different point of view, bug off! To use the holocaust or human sacrafice is kind of using an extreme which serves to miss the point. (Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")

Well, I'm not going to go into details but there were many positives to Hitler. Of course he was a huge negative in the end, and the positives only applied if you were an ethnic German. If the guy hadn't had some initial positive effects, he would never have gotten as far as he had.

You can recognize this and still hold to some absolutes, like "killing innocents because they happen to belong to a certain ethnic group is wrong."

[ChristineR]

Wasn't he an artist, or at least an art student? Isn't it possible he created a few pretty paintings, even if he didn't produce any masterpieces? :confused:

DR

His paintings were pretty crappy. He probably destroyed more good paintings than he ever produced. Nonetheless, one was recently auctioned for big bucks. You can see them if you Google--I don't much feel like plastering one up here.

[daredelvis]

Again, I simply say this is an intriguing topic. The word "diversity" is a PC term that has come to mean "A healthy variety of varying points of view that boil down to the same point of view." If you have still a different point of view, bug off! To use the holocaust or human sacrafice is kind of using an extreme which serves to miss the point. (Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")


Who said anything about human sacrifice? My holocaust example was used because it was an example that any sane person could relate to. The fact that there are some people out there who I may consider sane who would not see the harm in the statements in the opening post is something that I am currently reevaluating. Society and its opinion's evolve. Many things that may have been considered acceptable 50 years ago in America would not be accepted in the mainstream today. That is a good thing. And, I would argue that a significant part of this social evolution was due to the "PC" police, and to people gaining an understanding of the groups that they once disparaged (diversity).

The term "PC" has come to be a catchall cover for bigots and jerks (IMHO). Any labeling of criticism of the statements outlined in the OP as simple PC BS is ridiculous. Accepting diversity does not require someone to sit back and accept being attacked by simpletons.

Daredelvis

[CaptainManacles]

Again, I simply say this is an intriguing topic. The word "diversity" is a PC term that has come to mean "A healthy variety of varying points of view that boil down to the same point of view." If you have still a different point of view, bug off! To use the holocaust or human sacrafice is kind of using an extreme which serves to miss the point. (Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")

"These kids are faggots" isn't a point of view, it's a crude and unneccisary way to express a point of view. If he wanted to say "look, sexuality is ultimately about who you have sex with, and I don't think it's appropriate to have a club on campus that focuses on who you have sex with" then that would be fine. But calling it a faggot club is different.

[steverino]

Who said anything about human sacrifice?

Daredelvis

We also believe in freedom of religion, but that doesn't mean we'd accept a religion that required human sacrifice.

He did.

[steverino]

Sorry, I'm not gay

Daredelvis

Why are you appologizin?That does not seem very politically correct to me. I see nothing wrong with being gay. I am not gay, but I would never say "I am sorry" i am not gay.

[steverino]

there were many positives to Hitler.

Yes there were. He saved money on bullets by lining up babies single file then shooting them 6 bodies thick with a single bullet. Very efficiant artist, he was.

[American]

Mary Jo Kehoe of Economy told the board Wednesday she couldn't believe her ears so she jotted down what Ambridge School Board Vice President William Scherfel said


Because jotted notes have long ensured inarguable accounts of what really happened.

"Mary Jo". What a d#ke.

[daredelvis]

Why are you appologizin?That does not seem very politically correct to me. I see nothing wrong with being gay. I am not gay, but I would never say "I am sorry" i am not gay.

Ha.Ha...

Daredelvis

[LawnOven]

Speaking of asshats - isn't it time for someone creative to come up with an asshat smilie?

Asshat--> 3: D

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3%3AD

I found one for you...

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4818/asshat2bn5fc5.png

I stole it from here:

http://www.floridadnb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40989&view=next&sid=fe31fcbcbd6dc5cb02c4c6e3cce47ef8

[ChristineR]

Yes there were. He saved money on bullets by lining up babies single file then shooting them 6 bodies thick with a single bullet. Very efficiant artist, he was.

Okay, I get the irony, but Hitler never shot any babies. He had people do that for him, and made a point of keeping away from the ugly stuff. If you really want to try and get inside AH's head, you need to know that.

Anyhow, this is a thread derail so I'll say no more about it here.

[TragicMonkey]

Again, I simply say this is an intriguing topic. The word "diversity" is a PC term that has come to mean "A healthy variety of varying points of view that boil down to the same point of view." If you have still a different point of view, bug off! To use the holocaust or human sacrafice is kind of using an extreme which serves to miss the point. (Like saying, "Everyone has something beautiful and positive to offer." And someone else says, "Oh yeah? Well, what about Hitler?")

And the best response to this problem is to accept every point of view as equally valid? No terms are off limits, no objections can be made?

Reminds me of the idiot teachers in elementary school, that when you went to tell them that one of the kids was sticking other kids with a needle that "nobody likes a tattletale".

[bob_kark]

Asshat--> 3: D

Awwww, he's so happy he has his hat! How cuuuuuuuute!

[LawnOven]

Awwww, he's so happy he has his hat! How cuuuuuuuute!

I think it's especially fitting for this particular sub-forum where things have a way of sometimes turning nasty...

A: Your politics are an afront to humankind! Go back to hitlerville, hitler!

B: 3: D

too bad the proper rendering ends up like this:

3:D

wait...

ε:D3

now he has ears

[bob_kark]

UU
:D

Hmmm... that doesn't really work either. They look like droopy... uhm, yeah.

[LawnOven]

UU
:D

Hmmm... that doesn't really work either. They look like droopy... uhm, yeah.

oooh, now you've done it.

[LawnOven]

uhmm...

ω
:D

...kinda sorta.

[bob_kark]

uhmm...

ω
:D

...kinda sorta.

I hear Germans make movies about things like that.

[steverino]

And the best response to this problem is to accept every point of view as equally valid? No terms are off limits, no objections can be made?

Reminds me of the idiot teachers in elementary school, that when you went to tell them that one of the kids was sticking other kids with a needle that "nobody likes a tattletale".

I don't get your point. I stated that I was called a "faggot" in school and it hurt my feelings. I also stated that the overused term "diversity" excludes groups of varying, sometimes distasteful opinions. That somehow lead to human sacrafice and people writing that Hitler was an artist and did not actually do any killing. Now you are saing in your above post that no terms are off limits. That goes back to what I said. My head is spinning. And more confusing still is that ever since you gave me that nifty list of things to say to my annoying relatives at the Thanksgiving dinner table in 3 days now, there is nothing you can say anymore that would irritate me.

[TragicMonkey]

I don't get your point. I stated that I was called a "faggot" in school and it hurt my feelings. I also stated that the overused term "diversity" excludes groups of varying, sometimes distasteful opinions. That somehow lead to human sacrafice and people writing that Hitler was an artist and did not actually do any killing. Now you are saing in your above post that no terms are off limits. That goes back to what I said. My head is spinning. And more confusing still is that ever since you gave me that nifty list of things to say at the Thanksgiving dinner table in 3 days now, there is nothing you can say anymore that would irritate me.

You seemed to be complaining that attempts to create diversity are as bad if not worse than the opposite. I am attempting to point out that this is not the case. Yes, some people go too far in their attempts to promote diversity. This is generally where people get all upset and use the term "political correctness". However, even if sometimes things don't work out perfectly, diversity is still a worthwhile goal. It's much better than the opposite.

And to complain that tolerance isn't tolerant of intolerance is to play semantical games. If you seriously believe that a requirement of true tolerance is to permit intolerance, than there is nothing more to be said because one cannot debate with someone who isn't grasping the meaning of words.

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

[steverino]

You seemed to be complaining that attempts to create diversity are as bad if not worse than the opposite. I am attempting to point out that this is not the case. Yes, some people go too far in their attempts to promote diversity. This is generally where people get all upset and use the term "political correctness". However, even if sometimes things don't work out perfectly, diversity is still a worthwhile goal. It's much better than the opposite.

And to complain that tolerance isn't tolerant of intolerance is to play semantical games. If you seriously believe that a requirement of true tolerance is to permit intolerance, than there is nothing more to be said because one cannot debate with someone who isn't grasping the meaning of words.

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

I will assume you are not kidding with the above post. I complain bitterly about Political Correctness, and "diversity." These concepts have concerned me personally on many occasions. I was almost fired at the Seattle Space Needle retail store because I tapped a co-worker on her shoulder lightly to allert her that a customer was needing her help. I was almost fired the next day by my (female) boss and told this was inappropriate touch and that I need to attend sensitivity training with the other male employees. The girl who tattled on me, by the way, had made numerous physical advances toward me and made a lot of sexual inuendo. In plain English, I was almost fired for not responding sexually to her. Another example is I was a freelance photographer for the Chicago Tribune in 1992-3, and being groomed for a staff position. In those days that was $38,000 plus medical plus raises. I was told finally that they needed a Spanish name under the published photos and hired two, upper-middle class photographers, mediocre in talent, who had Spanish names. They were not even from Chicago. (I know, I should have just changed my last name.) And, yes, editors told me I was quite qualified.

Before living in Seattle, I lived in "diverse" Oak Park, Illinois. Trust me, if your front lawn did not have a Kerry sign on it, you were snubbed. Many in Oak Park pride themselves on diversity, meaning blacks and whites together in the high school. Then they complain about high property taxes, yet few will move across Austin Avenue to a "real black neighborhood" where they can live for a fifth the amount and their (white) kids can have an authentic diverse upbringing. Hypocrits, I say. I am tired of it. And I feel I can articulate as much in this forum without the requiredment of a Kerry sign in my proverbial lawn.

[pipelineaudio]

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

Bull load of donkey dung

I came here to this forum because I am an atheist. I thought among other atheists I could learn a lot, as I figured (wrongly to some degree) that they were more likely the "intellectual" crowd. I figured (again wrongly) that they would more likely than not try and look at things rationally.

Instead, as I flee from the religious right, I run smack into the religious left.

PC is 1984 all the way. You even name things backwards like 1984 was...the ministry of truth, that deals lies? Well PC has "diversity" which means conforming to one set of ideals. It is colorblind of though, except for anti white sentiments of course.

Pat yourself on the back, you have created a religion as entrenched in society as the invisible sky monster that rules the christians

[Antiquehunter]

Sounds like issues with 'affirmative action' more than 'diversity' to me. In the Canadian public service, 'diversity' in the workplace encompasses a number of different issues, including breaking down barriers to employment for women, the disabled, visible minorities, indigenous peoples, and the GLBT community.

While you appear, from an anecdotal basis, to have been the victim of 'reverse discrimination', I do think its a slippery slope to blame a concept that is of tremendous importance to civil rights, for some perceived mistreatments.

[pipelineaudio]

Sounds like issues with 'affirmative action' more than 'diversity' to me. In the Canadian public service, 'diversity' in the workplace encompasses a number of different issues, including breaking down barriers to employment for women, the disabled, visible minorities, indigenous peoples, and the GLBT community.

While you appear, from an anecdotal basis, to have been the victim of 'reverse discrimination', I do think its a slippery slope to blame a concept that is of tremendous importance to civil rights, for some perceived mistreatments.

Not me, Im a plump, brown Hawai'ian, I get a few things offered because of my "race" and take that as an INSULT

A bunch of PC thugs are saying "hey stupid idiot brown pile of crap, you are too stupid to feed yourself so lets give you free stuff...we cant expect you to do anything for yourself since the white man is holding you down"

Bull

I will compete with anyone, anytime on a level playing field

I dont need handouts

I dont need special treatment

I dont need free food

I dont need free college

I dont need free medicine

I am a human being same as any other and deserve to be treated with the same dignity or lack therof of anyone else

[Antiquehunter]

I was actually addressing Steverino, and our posts crossed by accident.

But again - my use of the word 'diversity' as it applies to the workplace is EXACTLY what you are driving at, pipeline. It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

[steverino]

I was actually addressing Steverino, and our posts crossed by accident.

But again - my use of the word 'diversity' as it applies to the workplace is EXACTLY what you are driving at, pipeline. It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

Now you are talking about quotas. Which ideally are cute but in practice stink. You stated you are male and have a male husband. I have a buddy in Boston who also has a life-partner. His life-partner is not eligable for health benefits or other goodies through his job because his life-partner is a woman. Had he chosen a male life-partner, that person would indeed be eligable for health care and other special favors. The law asks why does he not marry her and he (and I say) it's nun ya bizness.

[steverino]

Scherfel's overtly discriminatory and homophobic attitude

Or maybe there is actually no such medical disease as "homophobia" and maybe Scherfel felt that his high school was a place to learn to read, write, and do math. And maybe by making his feelings overt, as you say, he was simply not intimidated by the do-gooders around him who were afraid to cliarify why a high school club needs to closely examine cunilingus and fellatio. I enjoyed reading The Importance of Being Earnest in high school without the prerequisit of joining a rectal-stimulation club.

[Antiquehunter]

No - I'm specifically NOT talking about quotas. 'Affirmative Action' means quotas. 'Diversity' (In the Canadian Public Sector context) is specifically NOT about quotas. It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

Anyways - on the matter of your friend in a heterosexual relationship - wouldn't 'common law' spousal laws apply?

On your comments about clubs like Adam's, my opinion is that they're sort of like trade unions. Organizations tend to 'deserve' unions, because they have abused their staff in some way. I'd say that when a student at a school feels a need to start a GLBT club, its addressing a need - and its a need that is evinced by Scherfel's asshat comment. I'd expect that if school administrators were less homophobic and less inclined to openly degrade students using an epithet, students would feel less of a need to organize.

[steverino]

No - I'm specifically NOT talking about quotas. 'Affirmative Action' means quotas. 'Diversity' (In the Canadian Public Sector context) is specifically NOT about quotas.

Anyways - on the matter of your friend in a heterosexual relationship - wouldn't 'common law' spousal laws apply?

On your comments about clubs like Adam's, my opinion is that they're sort of like trade unions. Organizations tend to 'deserve' unions, because they have abused their staff in some way. I'd say that when a student at a school feels a need to start a GLBT club, its addressing a need - and its a need that is evinced by Scherfel's asshat comment. I'd expect that if school administrators were less homophobic and less inclined to openly degrade students using an epithet, students would feel less of a need to organize.

As I am not a lawyer I can't answer the common law question. But of all the people I know, this particular friend is the most liberal and open to diversity and gay marriage and he still got screwed by the diversity system.

My other points flew right over your head. I am not convinced of the validity of your definition of "homophobic." Particularly when you speculate if the adminstrators were "less homophobic." What does that mean scientifically? "Less Homophobic" ? I also recall being a high school student, and now realize it was perfectly valid for my "needs to organize" to be ignored by grown-ups who ran the show and paid the taxes. Again, what does sexual orientation have to do with high school? Yes-enjoy the genius of Walt Whitman, Aaron Copeland, etc. But if the students really want to gain a healthy sense of self by exploring which civil war soldier's penis went into Whitman's mouth at a makeshift triage facility, they can easily chat about it ad nauseum over lattes at Starbucks after the last school bell rings, and you can quote me on that.

[TragicMonkey]

I will assume you are not kidding with the above post. I complain bitterly about Political Correctness, and "diversity." These concepts have concerned me personally on many occasions. I was almost fired at the Seattle Space Needle retail store because I tapped a co-worker on her shoulder lightly to allert her that a customer was needing her help. I was almost fired the next day by my (female) boss and told this was inappropriate touch and that I need to attend sensitivity training with the other male employees. The girl who tattled on me, by the way, had made numerous physical advances toward me and made a lot of sexual inuendo. In plain English, I was almost fired for not responding sexually to her.

This has nothing to do with "diversity". It's either sexual harrassment, or a climate of ridiculousness created by the fear of lawsuits about sexual harrassment.

Another example is I was a freelance photographer for the Chicago Tribune in 1992-3, and being groomed for a staff position. In those days that was $38,000 plus medical plus raises. I was told finally that they needed a Spanish name under the published photos and hired two, upper-middle class photographers, mediocre in talent, who had Spanish names. They were not even from Chicago. (I know, I should have just changed my last name.) And, yes, editors told me I was quite qualified.

As someone's pointed out, this is affirmative action. Not everybody who likes diversity thinks it can or should be created by artificial means.

Before living in Seattle, I lived in "diverse" Oak Park, Illinois. Trust me, if your front lawn did not have a Kerry sign on it, you were snubbed. Many in Oak Park pride themselves on diversity, meaning blacks and whites together in the high school. Then they complain about high property taxes, yet few will move across Austin Avenue to a "real black neighborhood" where they can live for a fifth the amount and their (white) kids can have an authentic diverse upbringing. Hypocrits, I say. I am tired of it. And I feel I can articulate as much in this forum without the requiredment of a Kerry sign in my proverbial lawn.

Oh, that's just people. Who's going to put their money where their mouth is? Everybody likes to talk about believing in various ideals, but when thousands of dollars of property value and crime rates enter the equation for them personally, they'll find excuses. People like that want diversity, but they want clean, name-brand Diversity brought to them by Disney. To borrow a metaphor from Terry Pratchett, it's the difference between getting muddy when you have a bath to look forward to, and getting muddy when you know you'll have to stay muddy for a long time afterward.

[TragicMonkey]

Bull load of donkey dung

I came here to this forum because I am an atheist. I thought among other atheists I could learn a lot, as I figured (wrongly to some degree) that they were more likely the "intellectual" crowd. I figured (again wrongly) that they would more likely than not try and look at things rationally.

Instead, as I flee from the religious right, I run smack into the religious left.

PC is 1984 all the way. You even name things backwards like 1984 was...the ministry of truth, that deals lies? Well PC has "diversity" which means conforming to one set of ideals. It is colorblind of though, except for anti white sentiments of course.

Pat yourself on the back, you have created a religion as entrenched in society as the invisible sky monster that rules the christians

Snort. I love how people project opinions on me. So far this month I've counted three posts by other people explaining what I meant.

I like diversity. Because I like people, and I find them more interesting when they are different. That doesn't mean all differences can and should be tolerated, or that people can ditch common sense or common courtesy in the name of diversity.

But I don't think it's possible to create diversity artificially. Things like quotas and trying too hard to pretend that some differences, the problematic ones, don't exist are ridiculous. People trying to promote diversity by celebrating one holiday but changing the name of another, hiring one person based on their ethnicity rather than another to show that they aren't considering ethnicity important...it's nuts. The best way to achieve diversity is to leave people the f**k alone and let them be themselves. I like diversity. That's why I don't give a rat's buttock who you are, where you're from, or what you think. It's not my business. It's not important.

Diversity occurs best when it occurs naturally, and that only happens when people stop trying.

[Antiquehunter]

Nothing flew over my head. You are clearly and likely purposely reading more into the stated intention of the club in order to foster your own misguided assertions.

Some ground rules:

Definition of homophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia is a good enough starting point for me.

Stated purpose of Adam's club: "mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia."

You want to know how Asshat could've been less homophobic? How about not using a hateful epithet to describe a group of people. Indeed, we have no way of knowing if indeed Adam identifies as gay or straight himself - it is a 'Gay-Straight Alliance' which implies that you don't have to be gay to join (although it probably helps.)

Now - you've alleged that you believe this club to be some sort of study of homosexuality in culture, and further made the suggestion that the club is some sort of dating / sex club. Re-read the mission statement of the club. Its not. Point blank.

The VERY FACT that students feel a need to form an 'ALLIANCE' suggests strongly to me that they are feeling abused and/or bullied in their environment. Clearly, they're being abused and/or bullied by the very administrators of the school.

I'm not going to rise to the occasion and suggest that your attitude in your posts implies homophobia - because I suspect you're waiting just for that as some sort of false proof that 'Diversity' is the root of all evils, and that you're really a hip and caring guy with loads of gay friends, and that once again, the PC police are throwing about intolerant labels all willy-nilly. But I will say that your comments about Walt Whitman giving blowjobs and rectal stimulation suggests a certain disconnect, and implies a degree of immaturity.

Thanks for the offer of using your line as a quote, but I find it more asinine than quote-worthy.

[Almo]

That is some real twisted logic. If, for example, the Holocaust musume invites people from various backgrounds to discuss genocide, and does not invite a representative group of Holocaust deniers, it would not be a diverse group?

Sorry, I'm not gay, I do wish for diversity, and I feel that people who make bigoted moronic comments like those in the opening post should be condemned.

Daredelvis

Very well put, dude. My post doesn't add much. Just felt like saying for the record that this was very well put.

[Almo]

The best way to achieve diversity is to leave people the f**k alone and let them be themselves.

Wrong. Leave people alone and you get VERY unpleasant amounts of ____ism. Perhaps things have gone too far the other way in demanding diversity, (I'm unsure of this), but it is certainly not OK to just leave people alone about it.

[steverino]

Oh, that's just people. Who's going to put their money where their mouth is? Everybody likes to talk about believing in various ideals, but when thousands of dollars of property value and crime rates enter the equation for them personally, they'll find excuses. People like that want diversity, but they want clean, name-brand Diversity brought to them by Disney. To borrow a metaphor from Terry Pratchett, it's the difference between getting muddy when you have a bath to look forward to, and getting muddy when you know you'll have to stay muddy for a long time afterward.

This is brilliant. And I love the muddy-metaphor. In Chicago we had a newscaster, Walter Jacobson, what some would call a "nebbish." Kind of an Andy Rooney without the gravitas, or bushy eyebrows. Anyway, he did a "piece" on homelessness. He walked around Chicago on a cold rainy weekend, with hidden cameras following him. He stared longingly at yummy food through restaurant windows being consumed by customers, and tried to bum change from passersby. He made a point, but by the time the story aired, Mr. 3-Piece Suit was back in his fancy 6000 sf home, his kids safely off to fancy New Trier High School. And of course he didn't exactly open HIS front door to drifters.

[pipelineaudio]

Wrong. Leave people alone and you get VERY unpleasant amounts of ____ism.

evidence?

[steverino]

Nothing flew over my head. You are clearly and likely purposely reading more into the stated intention of the club in order to foster your own misguided assertions.

Some ground rules:

Definition of homophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia is a good enough starting point for me.

Stated purpose of Adam's club: "mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia."

You want to know how Asshat could've been less homophobic? How about not using a hateful epithet to describe a group of people. Indeed, we have no way of knowing if indeed Adam identifies as gay or straight himself - it is a 'Gay-Straight Alliance' which implies that you don't have to be gay to join (although it probably helps.)

Now - you've alleged that you believe this club to be some sort of study of homosexuality in culture, and further made the suggestion that the club is some sort of dating / sex club. Re-read the mission statement of the club. Its not. Point blank.

The VERY FACT that students feel a need to form an 'ALLIANCE' suggests strongly to me that they are feeling abused and/or bullied in their environment. Clearly, they're being abused and/or bullied by the very administrators of the school.

I'm not going to rise to the occasion and suggest that your attitude in your posts implies homophobia - because I suspect you're waiting just for that as some sort of false proof that 'Diversity' is the root of all evils, and that you're really a hip and caring guy with loads of gay friends, and that once again, the PC police are throwing about intolerant labels all willy-nilly. But I will say that your comments about Walt Whitman giving blowjobs and rectal stimulation suggests a certain disconnect, and implies a degree of immaturity.

Thanks for the offer of using your line as a quote, but I find it more asinine than quote-worthy.

Dang. Busted! I WAS hoping you were going to take the bait and accuse me of being homophobic so I could say I was really a hip guy. So, with absolute sincerity I give you credit for your insight into my mindset.

I DID reread the article and I was shocked to realize that the man you refer to as "Asshat" (hmmm, I thought you were in the anti-personal slur camp) did not use the "f" term in front of Adam but rather at a meeting, so in that regared I wish to amp my argument up a notch. The argument being things have gotten too PC-out of hand and his slur has been taken out of context by you pro-PC'ers in this thread.

Regarding my Whitman statement, I would never use the term "b***job" anymore as I have been warned on these threads. That aside, this particular point has gone way over your head. I will try again as it was 2:am or so when I tried before so I blame myself....There are areas of culture some adults who call the shots in high schools do not want in the form of an organization within their walls. My point is that if the kids, regardless of their sexual orientation, want to meet and discuss, they can simply do so at a coffee shop after school hours down the street. The other aspect of my point you did not seem to get is that regardless of homophobia in school, homosexuals who have made a wonderful contribution in the history of our culture should be, and are, celebrated, as should heterosexuals. Were there a ban on that, then, yes, like a ban on black art or Asian culture, this would be an assault that would need settling on school premises, and during school hours.

P.S. Some of the most asinine statements are indeed the most quote-worthy.

[Dancing David]

Or maybe there is actually no such medical disease as "homophobia" and maybe Scherfel felt that his high school was a place to learn to read, write, and do math. And maybe by making his feelings overt, as you say, he was simply not intimidated by the do-gooders around him who were afraid to cliarify why a high school club needs to closely examine cunilingus and fellatio. I enjoyed reading The Importance of Being Earnest in high school without the prerequisit of joining a rectal-stimulation club.

Wow, that is off base, you are some sort of comic, but you have limited understanding of what an alliance club might be about.

I am not gay , but was beat up because people thought I was, that is what the clubs are about.

You are funny, but off base.

[ChristineR]

Are you blanking joking? I sure as hell hope so. I'm a 43 year old straight woman whose best friend in High School just happened to realize that he was gay. I have many, many times wished that there was such a thing as a gay-straight alliance at my school. Here are some of the topics we would have talked about:

Diffusing violence before it starts.
Why don't teachers intervene in gay-bashing?
How do we convince people gays are human?
Is homosexuality a choice?
If straight kids are allowed to kiss at school, what about gay kids?
What are the options for a teenager whose parents have thrown him out for being gay?

Trust me, sex techniques and orgies would have nothing to do with it. In fact, if an adviser had told us we had to limit ourselves only to school related issues, I'm sure we could have.

[Darth Rotor]

If straight kids are allowed to kiss at school, what about gay kids?

There should be no PDA at school, which covers both bases nicely. Period. Plenty of time for that elsewhere.

In my high school (public), 1970's, kids were allowed to smoke out doors (16 was the age for that in those days) but PDA was forbidden. Gently enforced at first "Hey, you two" says a teacher "knock it off." Detention for being an idiot about it on part of student.

In my daughter's current high school, no PDA, though massive amounts of hand holding and hugging, of course, but no smoking, and fer flock's sake, no aspirin in your purse. (Some zealotry anti drug BS.)

Any HS that permits PDA is effed up, IMO. There is a time and place for everything. Spit swapping and school aren't a good fit.

DR

[steverino]

Wow, that is off base, you are some sort of comic, but you have limited understanding of what an alliance club might be about.

I am not gay , but was beat up because people thought I was, that is what the clubs are about.

You are funny, but off base.

Thanks for th humor comment. I wish you'd cut me slack as it was 2am last night/this morning and I was having a bit of fun.

I am very sorry you were beat up for appearing gay. As I stated in an earlier post, my gym teacher in JH called me "faggot" a lot because I was passive compared to the other male students. My Junior High years were when my big brother disappeared. It was a terrible time for my identity to shape. I am honestly trying to imagine how you or I would have benefitted from bulley students and crappy gym teachers had such a sensitivity forum existed. Would you have joined as a teen? I just can't picture it at all...I can see a valid forum of "victims of bullies" taking place.

[TragicMonkey]

There should be no PDA at school, which covers both bases nicely. Period. Plenty of time for that elsewhere.

In my high school (public), 1970's, kids were allowed to smoke out doors (16 was the age for that in those days) but PDA was forbidden. Gently enforced at first "Hey, you two" says a teacher "knock it off." Detention for being an idiot about it on part of student.

In my daughter's current high school, no PDA, though massive amounts of hand holding and hugging, of course, but no smoking, and fer flock's sake, no aspirin in your purse. (Some zealotry anti drug BS.)

Any HS that permits PDA is effed up, IMO. There is a time and place for everything. Spit swapping and school aren't a good fit.



You don't seem to count hand-holding and hugging as "PDA". Why isn't that banned as well? Is it okay for everybody, or just the straight kids?

[Region Rat]

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17472440&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6
Board member says
'F-word' about gays
By: Larissa Theodore, Times Staff
11/16/2006

AMBRIDGE - An Ambridge Area School Board member's derogatory remark, made during a public meeting last week and in reference to a new gay and lesbian extracurricular club, had several residents calling for his resignation Wednesday night.



Mary Jo Kehoe of Economy told the board Wednesday she couldn't believe her ears so she jotted down what Ambridge School Board Vice President William Scherfel said when he referred to the high school's new Gay-Straight Alliance group as a "sex club" during a Nov. 8 work session. She said when two board members tried to correct Scherfel's politically-incorrect blunder by telling him the club's formal name, Scherfel replied, "OK, the faggots."

"I personally found it very offensive," Kehoe said.

Adam Smith of Ambridge, the senior who founded the club, also found Scherfel's words distasteful. He said the club's mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia. He invited Scherfel to a club meeting. He also asked for a written apology and Scherfel's resignation.

"It's uncalled for, and it's wrong," Smith said.

Scherfel didn't deny he used "the F-word," but blamed the controversy on politics.
...
OK, that's enough. The "F-word"? Here too? So we're at the point where we can't even say a person said faggot without resorting to this blank-word crap. Oh, sorry, Blank-word C-word. Not that C-word, one of the other C-words. And I thought the F-word was the other F-word. You know, F***, not F*****.

Are we going to re-offend the people who were offended by the guy who said faggot? Or are we afraid we might offend some new folks by saying that a guy said faggot?

[steverino]

You don't seem to count hand-holding and hugging as "PDA". Why isn't that banned as well? Is it okay for everybody, or just the straight kids?

C'mere tragicmonkey. Does someone I know need a hug?:)

[steverino]

OK, that's enough. The "F-word"? Here too? So we're at the point where we can't even say a person said faggot without resorting to this blank-word crap. Oh, sorry, Blank-word C-word. Not that C-word, one of the other C-words. And I thought the F-word was the other F-word. You know, F***, not F*****.

Are we going to re-offend the people who were offended by the guy who said faggot? Or are we afraid we might offend some new folks by saying that a guy said faggot?

BINGO! It took me two days and two thousand words to express the point you made. You are "F"ing awesome!

[Darth Rotor]

You don't seem to count hand-holding and hugging as "PDA". Why isn't that banned as well? Is it okay for everybody, or just the straight kids?
No, I see PDA as beginning at the face sucking. Hand holding could be banned, depends on the school district. Whatever works.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

OK, that's enough. The "F-word"? Here too? So we're at the point where we can't even say a person said faggot without resorting to this blank-word crap. Oh, sorry, Blank-word C-word. Not that C-word, one of the other C-words. And I thought the F-word was the other F-word. You know, F***, not F*****.

Are we going to re-offend the people who were offended by the guy who said faggot? Or are we afraid we might offend some new folks by saying that a guy said faggot?

I thought the new C-word was "cutandrun." :boggled: D-wordit, man, I just can't keep up with these new conventions.

DR

[steverino]

Are you blanking joking? I sure as hell hope so. I'm a 43 year old straight woman whose best friend in High School just happened to realize that he was gay. I have many, many times wished that there was such a thing as a gay-straight alliance at my school. Here are some of the topics we would have talked about:

Diffusing violence before it starts.
Why don't teachers intervene in gay-bashing?
How do we convince people gays are human?
Is homosexuality a choice?
If straight kids are allowed to kiss at school, what about gay kids?
What are the options for a teenager whose parents have thrown him out for being gay?

Trust me, sex techniques and orgies would have nothing to do with it. In fact, if an adviser had told us we had to limit ourselves only to school related issues, I'm sure we could have.

In all seriousness, who would this gay-straight alliance play out as you see it? No synicism, I'm being honest. There would be a classroom and some people who think they are gay or have been picked on as I had at that age would attend. Others who are simply supportive of those who feel singled out would attend. A teacher would attend? The teacher would say this I guarantee, "If anyone gets injured by another student for acting "gay" or what the bully perceives is gay, the student causing the injury will be punished, the same as if that student bullied someone for being black or Asian or Jewish. If a teacher makes a remark that anyone here regards as a slur, that teacher will be confronted, same as if that teacher makes a racial or ethnic slur." Then what? Kids talk about how they feel different inside? How do you see it?

[Region Rat]

BINGO! It took me two days and two thousand words to express the point you made. You are "F"ing awesome!


See how this PC crap can lead to confusion? I'm not sure if I should thank you or tell you to go to hell. Which F-word do you mean?
:D

I'll assume thanks.:)

For future reference, you don't have to say F-word, or F***, or F@&%, you can say frick, or frig, farg (for you Young Guns fans), or frak (for you Battlestar Galactica fans). That turns a deadly insult into a cutesy saying. Isn't language wonderful?

[TragicMonkey]

In all seriousness, who would this gay-straight alliance play out as you see it? No synicism, I'm being honest. There would be a classroom and some people who think they are gay or have been picked on as I had at that age would attend. Others who are simply supportive of those who feel singled out would attend. A teacher would attend? The teacher would say this I guarantee, "If anyone gets injured by another student for acting "gay" or what the bully perceives is gay, the student causing the injury will be punished, the same as if that student bullied someone for being black or Asian or Jewish. If a teacher makes a remark that anyone here regards as a slur, that teacher will be confronted, same as if that teacher makes a racial or ethnic slur." Then what? Kids talk about how they feel different inside? How do you see it?

Sheesh. You can only imagine that they'll either discuss sex or how to work the system? Maybe you ought to attend one of these meetings, if you're anywhere near where one is allowed to be held. They might have more important topics to cover, like "don't kill yourself because you're different and so many people hate you for it, possibly including your own parents." That little topic tends to worry teenaged gays, for some reason.

[ChristineR]

There should be no PDA at school, which covers both bases nicely. Period. Plenty of time for that elsewhere.

In my high school (public), 1970's, kids were allowed to smoke out doors (16 was the age for that in those days) but PDA was forbidden. Gently enforced at first "Hey, you two" says a teacher "knock it off." Detention for being an idiot about it on part of student.

In my daughter's current high school, no PDA, though massive amounts of hand holding and hugging, of course, but no smoking, and fer flock's sake, no aspirin in your purse. (Some zealotry anti drug BS.)

Any HS that permits PDA is effed up, IMO. There is a time and place for everything. Spit swapping and school aren't a good fit.

DR

At my public high school in the seventies not only was spit swapping allowed, the straight kids regularly went much further than that. Let us say that kids went to third base in the hallways.

[ChristineR]

In all seriousness, who would this gay-straight alliance play out as you see it? No synicism, I'm being honest. There would be a classroom and some people who think they are gay or have been picked on as I had at that age would attend. Others who are simply supportive of those who feel singled out would attend. A teacher would attend? The teacher would say this I guarantee, "If anyone gets injured by another student for acting "gay" or what the bully perceives is gay, the student causing the injury will be punished, the same as if that student bullied someone for being black or Asian or Jewish. If a teacher makes a remark that anyone here regards as a slur, that teacher will be confronted, same as if that teacher makes a racial or ethnic slur." Then what? Kids talk about how they feel different inside? How do you see it?

No, the teacher would say "What sort of ideas do you have for forcing the school to enforce the rules?" or "Strictly speaking, the school does not forbid anti-gay harassment, so we have to present it as just plain harassment" or "If Principal Smith denies saying "f--ts deserve to be beaten up" I'm not sure what we can do."

[ponderingturtle]

No, I see PDA as beginning at the face sucking. Hand holding could be banned, depends on the school district. Whatever works.

DR

And dances are right out.

[steverino]

Sheesh. You can only imagine that they'll either discuss sex or how to work the system? Maybe you ought to attend one of these meetings, if you're anywhere near where one is allowed to be held. They might have more important topics to cover, like "don't kill yourself because you're different and so many people hate you for it, possibly including your own parents." That little topic tends to worry teenaged gays, for some reason.

I SAID: They will most likely discuss how not to be discriminated against. YOU are the one bringing up sex.

[steverino]

In all seriousness, who would this gay-straight alliance play out as you see it? No synicism, I'm being honest. There would be a classroom and some people who think they are gay or have been picked on as I had at that age would attend. Others who are simply supportive of those who feel singled out would attend. A teacher would attend? The teacher would say this I guarantee, "If anyone gets injured by another student for acting "gay" or what the bully perceives is gay, the student causing the injury will be punished, the same as if that student bullied someone for being black or Asian or Jewish. If a teacher makes a remark that anyone here regards as a slur, that teacher will be confronted, same as if that teacher makes a racial or ethnic slur." Then what? Kids talk about how they feel different inside? How do you see it?

There is nothing, I MEAN NOTHING about sex in my above post. I resent being told there is.

[Darth Rotor]

At my public high school in the seventies not only was spit swapping allowed, the straight kids regularly went much further than that. Let us say that kids went to third base in the hallways.
Well, that is a good case of the sexual revolution spreading where it should not have, and a school district that didn't give a **** . . . since, perhaps, all the board members were wife swapping? :boggled: (Guessing)

DR

[Darth Rotor]

And dances are right out.
Dancing isn't day in day out school activity, its an extra curricular, and for flock's sake, the one place you expect PDA. Stop being deliberately obtuse, will you?

DR

[ChristineR]

Well, that is a good case of the sexual revolution spreading where it should not have, and a school district that didn't give a **** . . . since, perhaps, all the board members were wife swapping? :boggled: (Guessing)

DR

I have no idea, but the school was pretty awful in every way.

[Antiquehunter]

I DID reread the article and I was shocked to realize that the man you refer to as "Asshat" (hmmm, I thought you were in the anti-personal slur camp)

If the asshat fits...

[CaptainManacles]

If the asshat fits...

assshoe

Gesundheit

[TragicMonkey]

I SAID: They will most likely discuss how not to be discriminated against. YOU are the one bringing up sex.

Are you sure about that?

Or maybe there is actually no such medical disease as "homophobia" and maybe Scherfel felt that his high school was a place to learn to read, write, and do math. And maybe by making his feelings overt, as you say, he was simply not intimidated by the do-gooders around him who were afraid to cliarify why a high school club needs to closely examine cunilingus and fellatio. I enjoyed reading The Importance of Being Earnest in high school without the prerequisit of joining a rectal-stimulation club.


Yes-enjoy the genius of Walt Whitman, Aaron Copeland, etc. But if the students really want to gain a healthy sense of self by exploring which civil war soldier's penis went into Whitman's mouth at a makeshift triage facility, they can easily chat about it ad nauseum over lattes at Starbucks after the last school bell rings, and you can quote me on that.

[steverino]

The post you just reprinted, which is sexual, is post #61, which I wrote late last night. Then I gave your words a lot of serious thought this morning, and we hashed the topic out maturely during the day- you, antiquehunter, chrisineR, and I, and I asked the question of how specifically such a group would be organized in a high school environment, on posts #65 and #72. Then on #74 you say...

"Sheesh. You can only imagine that they'll either discuss sex or how to work the system?"

That was unfair as I had long dropped the sexual remarks.
I appologized and moved on. Now you have gone back to those earlier quotes, and take them out of chronological order which tinkers with the true evolution of this discussion, which I feel had become constructive.

[TragicMonkey]

Oh, so sorry. I was unaware you had been visited by the Three Ghosts of Tolerance in the night, and that previous remarks were to be stricken from the record.

[bluess]

TM, I think I love you.

Too bad about the whole poo-flinging thing.

[steverino]

Oh, so sorry. I was unaware you had been visited by the Three Ghosts of Tolerance in the night, and that previous remarks were to be stricken from the record.

I don't deserve this from you.I am positively influenced by your posts which I acknowledge help me expand and grow, and I self-depricated, and show that I am open minded. My previous remarks should not be stricken from the record, but should be backburnered for my more recent posts which are more viable thanks to you, antiquehunter, and others. I am not sure what more a person can do. So for you to say, "Yes, but look what you said before all that," is unwarrented.

I am willing to rise above the occasion. Join me.

[TragicMonkey]

I don't deserve this from you.I am positively influenced by your posts which I acknowledge help me expand and grow, and I self-depricated, and show that I am open minded. My previous remarks should not be stricken from the record, but should be backburnered for my more recent posts which are more viable thanks to you, antiquehunter, and others. I am not sure what more a person can do. So for you to say, "Yes, but look what you said before all that," is unwarrented.

I am willing to rise above the occasion. Join me.

I didn't see you apologize for anything other than using the word "blowjob" because you were "warned about it", and demanding people "cut you some slack" because you posted at 2 a.m. Stating "in all seriousness" and switching to a new tactic doesn't equate to a reversal of previously stated opinions.

[Darth Rotor]

I didn't see you apologize for anything other than using the word "blowjob" because you were "warned about it", and demanding people "cut you some slack" because you posted at 2 a.m. Stating "in all seriousness" and switching to a new tactic doesn't equate to a reversal of previously stated opinions.
TM, the usually lyrical style is missing. :( I'll bet the over that you and steverino can sort this out in a PM.

DR

[Dancing David]

Are you blanking joking? I sure as hell hope so. I'm a 43 year old straight woman whose best friend in High School just happened to realize that he was gay. I have many, many times wished that there was such a thing as a gay-straight alliance at my school. Here are some of the topics we would have talked about:

Diffusing violence before it starts.
Why don't teachers intervene in gay-bashing?
How do we convince people gays are human?
Is homosexuality a choice?
If straight kids are allowed to kiss at school, what about gay kids?
What are the options for a teenager whose parents have thrown him out for being gay?

Trust me, sex techniques and orgies would have nothing to do with it. In fact, if an adviser had told us we had to limit ourselves only to school related issues, I'm sure we could have.

I hope this was in response to the same post mine was, I work in a middle school, and I remeber fondly the harrasment I recieved, much less the harrasment I recieved in high school.

I hope that i don't have to counsel a student on thier sexuality because it would be crappy to say, hey it is okay to be gay, just for safety's sake don't tell your peers.

My favorite was when someone called my giorlfriend a faggot.

[Dancing David]

Thanks for th humor comment. I wish you'd cut me slack as it was 2am last night/this morning and I was having a bit of fun.

I am very sorry you were beat up for appearing gay. As I stated in an earlier post, my gym teacher in JH called me "faggot" a lot because I was passive compared to the other male students. My Junior High years were when my big brother disappeared. It was a terrible time for my identity to shape. I am honestly trying to imagine how you or I would have benefitted from bulley students and crappy gym teachers had such a sensitivity forum existed. Would you have joined as a teen? I just can't picture it at all...I can see a valid forum of "victims of bullies" taking place.


I figured it was over the top, and meant to be humor.

the point to an allaince group is to be able to talk about it, my brother had no one to talk to from the age of four he was attracted to men, and every teacher he talked to said "That can't be". About half of my friends in high schools found out they wre gay or bisexual as soon as they graduated.

For me it would have been a forum to stand up and say that i supported them and that i would gladly threaten anymore people who threatened my brother. (I grew a lot between 9th and 10th grade). I was beat in seventh grade but was able to dog people into leaving my brother and friends alone, we endured the 'drama fag' stuff, but when they started to stalk us we took action.

I think that an alliance group may have helped to prevent the threat of violence(which i regret) and made school administrators suspend students for gay baiting, or at least suspend them from the sports team. It certainly might help to get people like your coach fired.

[Dancing David]

OK, that's enough. The "F-word"? Here too? So we're at the point where we can't even say a person said faggot without resorting to this blank-word crap. Oh, sorry, Blank-word C-word. Not that C-word, one of the other C-words. And I thought the F-word was the other F-word. You know, F***, not F*****.

Are we going to re-offend the people who were offended by the guy who said faggot? Or are we afraid we might offend some new folks by saying that a guy said faggot?

In a terry Prachett novel there are two hoods who say "----ing this" and "----ing that" and later another character swears by saying "ing" because they don't actualy say the "----" part. i think it is The Whole Truth.

[luchog]

Anyways - on the matter of your friend in a heterosexual relationship - wouldn't 'common law' spousal laws apply?.

Not all states support or require common law provisions. However, most larger corporations do include "domestic partner" benefits without specifying the gender or sexual orientation. In fact, I'm rather suspicious of Steverino's claim. I find it highly unlikely that a business that offers domestic partner benefits would offer them exclusively for same-sex couples, for no other reason than it would violate state and federal anti-discrimination laws. I've certainly never heard of a business that offered "gay/lesbian only" benefits.

[luchog]

Well, that is a good case of the sexual revolution spreading where it should not have, and a school district that didn't give a **** . . . since, perhaps, all the board members were wife swapping? :boggled: (Guessing)

Well, if it was anything like my local high school, it wasn't just the students who were going at it on campus. There were a bit too many of the Student-Teacher conferences going on as welll.

[steverino]

Not all states support or require common law provisions. However, most larger corporations do include "domestic partner" benefits without specifying the gender or sexual orientation. In fact, I'm rather suspicious of Steverino's claim. I find it highly unlikely that a business that offers domestic partner benefits would offer them exclusively for same-sex couples, for no other reason than it would violate state and federal anti-discrimination laws. I've certainly never heard of a business that offered "gay/lesbian only" benefits.

I will look into, what was actually the claim of my Boston friends. These benefits were not exclusive, but were for in place for BOTH married couples and gay couples, but not for opposite-sex cunmarried life-partners.

[Dancing David]

Not all states support or require common law provisions. However, most larger corporations do include "domestic partner" benefits without specifying the gender or sexual orientation. In fact, I'm rather suspicious of Steverino's claim. I find it highly unlikely that a business that offers domestic partner benefits would offer them exclusively for same-sex couples, for no other reason than it would violate state and federal anti-discrimination laws. I've certainly never heard of a business that offered "gay/lesbian only" benefits.

This is actualy not that uncommon, and is a matter of litigation, the argument is that hetero couples have the option of getting married.