It's deer hunting season. Do deer hunters have 'issues'?

[Iamme]

In Wisconsin, our regular gun season just began yesterday. Up to close to 700,000 people have registered to hunt in this state in the past (prior to CWD found in deer). That is quite a number. And I have never figured out for certain what motivates these people to get up before the crack of dawn, don orange suits and other gear, and trek for miles so that they can shoot some defenseless deer that is not at all interested in attacking the hunter, and have to drag the carcas for many yards or mile(s) out of the woods and then have to get it registered, and then have to tear it's skin off and gut it out and hang it from a tree, and then have to go pay and get it butchered, and maybe pay for a big freezer to put all the meat in.

And they have to pay to hunt. And most people don't NEED the meat. And have you ever tasted gamey tasting deer meat?

Do hunters have a macho problem?

Do hunters like to test out their aim skills and happen to have no regard for testing out their skills on something that is alive, and do so because it is legal to do so? Remember that often the deer are just standing there when shot. To me, that isn't even sporting. The hunter hides up in some stand, or a gang of hunters 'drives' the deer out into the open where one of the team shoots the deer.

Is it because 'boys will be boys', and they get to escape their battle-ax/getting ugly wives, who make them do honey-do work around the house all the time... so that they can guzzle beer and tell dirty jokes?

What?!

[Bikewer]

I gave up hunting many years ago; nothing against it in principal, it just didn't seem to me that I got any enjoyment out of killing things.
However, I am interesting in guns and archery and all that, and I was an avid hunter and fisherman for many years.

The reasons why modern "civilized" man still hunts are various, I'd say. One is simply tradition. Peoples for all over the world hunted as an adjunct to agriculture for thousands of years. There is a long-standing tradition of both elites and peasants going out to hunt for food.
But it's more than that, of course. Modern man does not need to pay on the order of a thousand dollars a pound for deer meat in order to survive. (by the time you tote up all your gear, licenses, travel, etc, etc,)
There has been for centuries a sporting aspect to hunting as well. As we know, the nobility of Europe reserved the sport for themselves, and developed elaborate rituals and ceremonies to go with it all.

There is still a thinly-concealed desire amongst modern civilized soul to get out and "get back to the land", feeling some kinship with nature, if you will.
Of course, some just want to get away from the wife for a while...

That may be part of it too, though. Just getting away from the pressures of society.

I would be the first to agree that there is much in modern hunting that is a bit suspect. "Canned" hunts with pre-planted game birds....(released on signal)
Fenced "hunting preserves" with hand-fed critters... "Garbage dump" shooting of bears and other creatures... And of course general idiocy such as drunkenness, shooting domesticated animals (or each other), and destroying private property.
Back when I was hunting, a fellow drove into one of the Missouri deer check-stations with a mule strapped over the hood of his vehicle. Deer tag properly attached and all. "Got a big one!" the fellow said. (This according to the conservation agent who arrested him) They still don't know how much help he got getting the deceased creature on his car...

[Dr. Imago]

Is there actually a question in there? Or, is this simply a rhetorical diatribe thinly veiled as an attempt at understanding a practice you seemingly oppose?

And, I think your suggestion that the vast majority of hunters "guzzle beer" and then handle firearms is way off mark.

As far as hunting goes, I don't hunt. But, I have many professional, respectable, highly-educated colleagues, some of whom are women, who actually do. You might want to step out of your stereotypecasts and learn what real responsible hunters do, namely thin the herds of often over-populated groups of various animals that happen to have quite a good life frolicking en masse through our backyards, more-than-occassionally spilling onto our interstates, procreating with reckless abandon, and feeding on the crops we often unhappily provide them.

Maybe a better solution, as you sit comfortably in front of your computer in the suburbs, is that we should stop encroaching on "their" territory and providing them with easily attainable and nutrient-rich food?

-Dr. Imago

[rudar]

Sigh. Here we go again...

I'm a (wanna-be) deer hunter and (beginner) duck hunter, and I most certainly do it because I have issues. I have issues with the current housing conditions of most agricultural livestock. I have issues with the welfare of that livestock during transport. I have issues with prophylactic abuse of antibiotics. And I have issues with all the poor defenseless gophers, mice, and birds that get macerated, displaced, or simply exposed to predation by soy-bean harvesting.

So I'd rather know at first hand where my food's coming from, and if my dinner leads to something dying (which it would even if I were vegan), I'd prefer to look it in the eye and take responsibility for killing it myself.

Plus I *like* the more intense flavours of wild game, and I *enjoy* being up before the sun, tromping out into a freezing marsh, watching the sun kiss the North Shore mountains, hearing the honk of geese overhead and the whistle of widgeons across the slough. OK, it's also a rush to make a well-placed shot that kills the animal humanely and quickly.

So do I have a macho problem? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. I don't really care much what your opinion of me is. So take that for what it's worth.

[Iamme]

I gave up hunting many years ago; nothing against it in principal, it just didn't seem to me that I got any enjoyment out of killing things.
However, I am interesting in guns and archery and all that, and I was an avid hunter and fisherman for many years.

The reasons why modern "civilized" man still hunts are various, I'd say. One is simply tradition. Peoples for all over the world hunted as an adjunct to agriculture for thousands of years. There is a long-standing tradition of both elites and peasants going out to hunt for food.
But it's more than that, of course. Modern man does not need to pay on the order of a thousand dollars a pound for deer meat in order to survive. (by the time you tote up all your gear, licenses, travel, etc, etc,)
There has been for centuries a sporting aspect to hunting as well. As we know, the nobility of Europe reserved the sport for themselves, and developed elaborate rituals and ceremonies to go with it all.

There is still a thinly-concealed desire amongst modern civilized soul to get out and "get back to the land", feeling some kinship with nature, if you will.
Of course, some just want to get away from the wife for a while...

That may be part of it too, though. Just getting away from the pressures of society.

I would be the first to agree that there is much in modern hunting that is a bit suspect. "Canned" hunts with pre-planted game birds....(released on signal)
Fenced "hunting preserves" with hand-fed critters... "Garbage dump" shooting of bears and other creatures... And of course general idiocy such as drunkenness, shooting domesticated animals (or each other), and destroying private property.
Back when I was hunting, a fellow drove into one of the Missouri deer check-stations with a mule strapped over the hood of his vehicle. Deer tag properly attached and all. "Got a big one!" the fellow said. (This according to the conservation agent who arrested him) They still don't know how much help he got getting the deceased creature on his car...

Great read.

[Iamme]

Is there actually a question in there? Or, is this simply a rhetorical diatribe thinly veiled as an attempt at understanding a practice you seemingly oppose?

Oh oh. Feeling sense I must go on the defensive again over such a passive subject matter even.


And, I think your suggestion that the vast majority of hunters "guzzle beer" and then handle firearms is way off mark.


Hey. I'm trying to make the post a little entertaining. I think we all know not all go around shooting deer while completely corned.


As far as hunting goes, I don't hunt. But, I have many professional, respectable, highly-educated colleagues, some of whom are women, who actually do.

And so does my own sister...who hunts with her shoot- everything- that- moves, husband. :)


You might want to step out of your stereotypecasts and learn what real responsible hunters do, namely thin the herds....

So you really think THAT is why they get out there, eh?


Maybe a better solution, as you sit comfortably in front of your computer in the suburbs...

I'm right in the heart of the city...and I have seen bucks standing under streetlamps here like in the commercial for The Hartford.


...is that we should stop encroaching on "their" territory and providing them with easily attainable and nutrient-rich food?

No. The hunting of deer has practically become a necessity, based on things you have said in your post. We have created a very enjoyable habitat for their survival. Also, our warmer winters have contributed. Wisconsin's deer population has incresased over a million since just 40 years. I do not question the need for the hunt. But the need does not necessarily create hunters whose motives are that for keeping down the population. This almost sounds like a war mentality where hunters are driven by some desire of what they can do to better help out therir fellow man by helping rid mankind of some nuisance problem. I do not share this opinion.

But I will edit to add that if more people respond and say that their motive for hunting is to thin the herd...then I guess I have learned something I truly did not realize about the motives of deer hunters. I'd admit that, then. But the way I figure it today, I figure that as hunters here there is 1.7 million deer to shoot here, that they go out there thinking that their odds of bringing back some deer to brag and show their neighbors (many seek that trophy buck with 8 or more antlers, and big 'spreads') has good odds to it, and that is some (if not all) of the motivation to get them out in the woods.

[Iamme]

Sigh. Here we go again...

I'm a (wanna-be) deer hunter and (beginner) duck hunter, and I most certainly do it because I have issues. I have issues with the current housing conditions of most agricultural livestock. I have issues with the welfare of that livestock during transport. I have issues with prophylactic abuse of antibiotics. And I have issues with all the poor defenseless gophers, mice, and birds that get macerated, displaced, or simply exposed to predation by soy-bean harvesting.

So I'd rather know at first hand where my food's coming from, and if my dinner leads to something dying (which it would even if I were vegan), I'd prefer to look it in the eye and take responsibility for killing it myself.

Plus I *like* the more intense flavours of wild game, and I *enjoy* being up before the sun, tromping out into a freezing marsh, watching the sun kiss the North Shore mountains, hearing the honk of geese overhead and the whistle of widgeons across the slough. OK, it's also a rush to make a well-placed shot that kills the animal humanely and quickly.

So do I have a macho problem? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. I don't really care much what your opinion of me is. So take that for what it's worth.

Don't read into my post, what I may or may not personally think of you as, since I have never met you. You hunt. I do not hunt. I do not think hunters are like some breed of creature that is destined for hell. Hunting is necessary and obviously enjoyed by those who do so. I am trying to figure out what drives MOST hunters as a possible common denominator. I read your post and fully understand how you like to hunt.

Let's get more people's opinions.

[steverino]

Don't read into my post, what I may or may not personally think of you as, since I have never met you. You hunt. I do not hunt. I do not think hunters are like some breed of creature that is destined for hell. Hunting is necessary and obviously enjoyed by those who do so. I am trying to figure out what drives MOST hunters as a possible common denominator. I read your post and fully understand how you like to hunt.

Let's get more people's opinions.

In Wisconsin hunting is a tradition with about as much point to it as fans routing for the Packers. ("Some of whom are women.")

[Checkmite]

I used to hunt; I used a bow. I've had only a couple of brief encounters with the "gun" culture, and those were enough to convince me to stay away. Don't get me wrong - I know all gun owners and enthusiasts are not like that; know it for a fact. But still.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Just don't mention the cute little cuddly baby seals! :D

Please.

[Jorghnassen]

Deer is tasty, but not as tasty as moose. That is all.

/either go nicely in a good tourtière (http://tourtiere.comicgenesis.com/tourtiere-el.html)

[casebro]

When so many people spend sooo much time and effort to get some adventure and suspense into their comfy-ass lifes, why would anybody put down hunting? None of that weekends in the ski lodge, just to slide down hill, or "the thrill of the hunt" in the singles bars. Or staying up late to watch the latest episode of Texas Ranger. Plus, it's about bringing home the bacon in an almost literal sense. Instead of punching a timeclock in return for some esoteric sheckles.

I've never felt more alive than when still hunting a deer during archery season. Beats the heck out of sliding downhill into a bar to watch Texas Ranger.

[Checkmite]

I will also concur that venison, when prepared correctly, is absolutely delectable.

[Badger]

Frig, I mistakenly clicked on an Iamme thread.

No, Iamme. They're pretty much a cross section of the general population.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Deer is tasty, but not as tasty as moose. That is all.

/either go nicely in a good tourtière (http://tourtiere.comicgenesis.com/tourtiere-el.html)

Mmm. Tourtière. Nice recipe. But to be really authentic it should be made from passenger pigeons.

[Kopji]

I was raised in the sea of houses that is Los Angeles County and was never really aware of hunters till I moved to the backwoods. I was going to go wild Turkey hunting, got all excited about then never went. Real hunters are nothing if not procrastinators.

So now I am aware of the rise and set of the sun, the changing of seasons, snow, rain, falling leaves - and the start of deer season. The first day of hunting season is pretty much a holiday here, apparently bourne on the wings of not being able to get anyone to show up to work.

Deer and Elk jerky or sausage is pretty good eating, even for a city boy. And I get to listen to hunting stories without ever going out.

I know for instance, that Doves mate for life. And if you shoot one dove, if you are very patient you can kill the mate when it comes looking.

Or that women can make the most entertaining hunters: A normally quiet and sweet middle aged lady in the HR department becomes Bwana Huntress each fall. She ALWAYS gets a nice buck. There's nothing as fun as giving her a call to get the story of her recent kill, and then call the 'macho hunters' up to let them know her buck was bigger than theirs. Life is good.

[Ausmerican]

Do hunters have a macho problem?

Why does the name Huntster spring to mind at this point?

[Jorghnassen]

Mmm. Tourtière. Nice recipe. But to be really authentic it should be made from passenger pigeons.

Urban legend etymology. Tourtière (http://www.rabaska.com/super/chroniques/2002/12/tourtier_go.htm) derives from tourte, as in a round plate, not tourte, the passenger pigeon, though they might have been among the ingredients back a long time ago...

[Tricky]

There's another thread on this in the Sports forum (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=65779)in which similar questions have been asked. Perhaps the threads should be merged.

[Kopji]

That photo of the naked lady with the rifle should definitely be merged over here.

[RandFan]

Do deer hunters have issues?

You tell me?

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JBEG.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

I grew up hunting deer so don't ask me. I loved it.

[qayak]

Seems the only ones here with issues are the non-hunters.

[RenaissanceBiker]

That photo of the naked lady with the rifle should definitely be merged over here.

Hey, that's my "battle-ax/getting ugly" wife you're talking about! I'm glad you liked it.

I passed on a nice doe Saturday morning hoping to get a buck. Then a spike came out. I took a tough shot and missed. I should have taken the doe which was a much easier shot.

Yesterday I made about a gallon of venison chili using meat from the doe I got two weeks ago. It was amazing.

[Darth Rotor]

Seems the only ones here with issues are the non-hunters.
Seconded. No one puts a gun to their heads and makes them go a-hunting, eh? ;)

DR

[Snide]

On of my favorite Steven Wright lines is the one about him accidentally killing his father-in-law in a hunting accident. "I thought he was an orange deer making coffee."

Then something like this (http://www.startribune.com/467/story/822663.html) happens. Man, it p!sses me off, and not simpoly because I don't hunt. I'm sure it p!sses off hunters, too, perhaps even more.

Aitkin County Sheriff Scott Turner said Lanie was walking through the woods just before 5 p.m. when a 45-year-old Maplewood man in a hunting stand shot Lanie once in the head.

Lanie, who was wearing a blaze orange jacket, blaze orange pants and a camouflage hat, was pronounced dead at the scene north of Mille Lacs Lake near Wealthwood Township in the southern part of the county.

The alleged shooter was arrested by Aitkin County authorities on suspicion of second-degree manslaughter. Charges could be filed today.

[qayak]

Then something like this (http://www.startribune.com/467/story/822663.html) happens. Man, it p!sses me off, and not simpoly because I don't hunt. I'm sure it p!sses off hunters, too, perhaps even more.

I had a couple incidents happen when I used to hunt. Combined, they convinced me that there were few people I would hunt with and the thought that they may very well be in the woods while I am, kept me on my toes. I had three hunting partners in 15 years. My best friend, my brother and my oldest sister's husband.

My brother and I went out with my second oldest sister's husband but after he started yelling that there were deer by a grove of trees, which my brother and I never saw, he jumped out of the truck and emptied the entire magazine onto the ground, without pulling the trigger. and then cussed and swore that there was something wrong with the sights on the gun, I knew I would never go with him again.

Another acquaintance went with me one time. We split up and I went down a ravine following a bunch of deer that turned out to all be does. When we joined up I started to tell him where I went and he said, "I know, I saw you!"

"How could you see me, your binoculars are back at the truck?"

"I was watching you through my scope."

Then he was unloading his gun and had it go off, hitting the ground about 5 feet in front of me. I told him to get in the truck, I drove him home and that was the last time I did anything with him.

My brother, brother-in-law and I have spent our entire lives in the woods. We trust each other completely and rely on each other for nothing. We are always completely prepared to fend for ourselves in the bush and have often bivied overnight seperate from each other when unable to return to the vehicle or camp before nightfall. We are all very safety conscious and none of us drink or do drugs. We got a lot of game but never cared about that. The idea was to be outdoors enjoying life.

Now, I shoot animals with my camera.

[qayak]

Seconded. No one puts a gun to their heads and makes them go a-hunting, eh? ;)

DR

Exactly! I have never heard anyone put forth a good argument why others should not be allowed to hunt. Mostly it boils down to: They don't like hunting so no one should be allowed to do it.

[Region Rat]

Of course I don't know where 'all y'all hail from', but here in the mid south hunting is taken seriously. As was mentioned in Wisconsin, the deer population has exploded, and the herd has to be culled. Many road kill deer by the side of the road around here. A great many people fill their freezers with their kills. With so much open land available to hunt in, for the cost of a gun and a license, you can get a deer in short order. I love it at work, because pretty soon the venison jerky, chili, sausage, etc will start to show up.

Also, there is a program where hunters can donate their kills to an organization to feed the poor. It helps a lot of people over the holidays.

I guess its all about where you were raised. I'm a damn yankee from up north and have never hunted, and I take more than a little guff for it. But since I'm an avid target shooter, I get cut a little slack.

[WildCat]

Back when I was hunting, a fellow drove into one of the Missouri deer check-stations with a mule strapped over the hood of his vehicle. Deer tag properly attached and all. "Got a big one!" the fellow said. (This according to the conservation agent who arrested him) They still don't know how much help he got getting the deceased creature on his car...
That has urban legend (http://www.snopes.com/critters/mishaps/hunters.asp) written all over it...

[slingblade]

I agree with Badger.

It's going to be a wide range of people, as usual. Some folks have "issues," and aren't responsible, and some don't and are. Some people really do feed themselves and their families with what they take. Some just want trophies. The herds do need thinning, and we did change the habitat(s).

But, Iamme, the question really is just a rant, isn't it? I mean, you knew those answers before you asked. You're just annoyed with your relatives, and who isn't this time of year? ;) Now, don't take my answer personally, please, because I've asked questions like this, myself. So my answer applies to my questions as well, okay?

The answer is: "it Depends," and that's because such questions are just like a diaper. Artificial, full of s***, and disposable.

[Kopji]

Hey, that's my "battle-ax/getting ugly" wife you're talking about! I'm glad you liked it.

I passed on a nice doe Saturday morning hoping to get a buck. Then a spike came out. I took a tough shot and missed. I should have taken the doe which was a much easier shot.

Yesterday I made about a gallon of venison chili using meat from the doe I got two weeks ago. It was amazing.

Sounds yummy, and your chili too. :D

[Kopji]

We have a couple of fish and game rangers who have made an art out of setting up 'out of season' lifelike Elk decoy and then waiting for hunters to shoot at it... Or knock it down with their jeeps, or lasso it, or drive by and shoot at it... or jump at it and tackle it... I'll keep an eye out for this year's poacher stories.

I've probably told this one before, but I have a computer buddy from Yuma that seems normal on the outside but has a wild streak that comes from being raised in, well, Yuma. He took his nephews out hunting, and after wounding an Elk, finished it off with a shot to the head by a .45 revolver he always packed when hunting. Messy. As he told the story, both kids turned a pale color of green and wouldn't go hunting with him again.

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Iamme
Do hunters have a macho problem?
Why does the name Huntster spring to mind at this point?

Because you don't know the difference between "macho" and manhood, and because you don't know squat about hunting?

[Huntster]

....I am trying to figure out what drives MOST hunters as a possible common denominator. I read your post and fully understand how you like to hunt.

Let's get more people's opinions.

I hunt because I like it out there, I love eating moose, caribou, and deer (and even bear, and we supplement it with salmon, rockfish, halibut, burbot, ling cod, etc; it's eating at it's very finest), and when I'm out there, there's rarely any human BS to put up with.

[RandFan]

That has urban legend (http://www.snopes.com/critters/mishaps/hunters.asp) written all over it... I hesitate to tell this story but it really happened to me.

When I was a kid I had gone with my best friend's family hunting. I was only in elementary school at the time. We were at camp when someone came over all excited and asked if someone would help him clean his deer. So we all moseyed over to see it. It was a small doe elk. You don't have to take my word for it but it really happened. My friend's dad told the guy what he had done and he at first didn't believe it. I'll be honest I didn't know the difference at the time. In any event the guy was rather upset when my friends father said he didn't want anything to do with it and wouldn't help the guy. I don't know what happened after that.

[Cain]

Well, in the case of someone who is pure evil -- like DICK Cheney -- I think there are unresolved "issues." A "hunting" party that kills 400+ birds on a canned hunt enjoys the killing part.

Here are some relevant quotes/notes I saved to e-mail from Matthew Scully's book (he's the conservative Christian who used to be a speech writer for GWBush). The following deals primarily with Safari hunting. I'm just copy/pasting the on-topic sections without edits. These are essentially notes to myself, but I recorded them because they said something interesting. It's fun looking back.

p. 45 Quote: "But man IS a part of nature, say the furriers and factory farmers and hunters and whalers, and so on down the line. Man belongs here too, playing a crucial and perfectly natural role in ecology. I'll leave that question for later, except to point out that we cannot have it both ways. We cannot stand proudly above nature -- man the creature of reason and conscience -- while using the violence an depredation of nature as our moral example, and that in th defense of customs and commercial products most of us now freely admit are no longer needed."

p. 60 Scully discusses the "spiritual hunter" ******** about the guy who kills and then mourns. Quote: "There is a whole genre of this stuff, always with the same theme of killing and bereavement, killing and self-revulsion, killing and emptiness. The idea that just myabe KILLING is the problem, and it might be best to work it all out at home, take a little break from the blood sports to "figure out why it is I do this," never seems to occur to them. Read enough hunting literature and you begin to suspect a deeper kind of self-display, the spiritual version of posing with one's trophies." //

p. 60-61 Q: "Respect" at Safari Club always means the courtesy of leaving enough behind for the next hunter, just as compassion always means helping the less fortunate who cannot hunt (they've got new "hunting for hte disabled" and even "hunting for the blind" programs), and generosity always means ssharing the fruits of the hunt ("hunters against hunger"). They practice a socially conscious sadism here. Ethics at Safari Club is ordered libertinism, like teaching cannibals to use a table napkin and not take the last portion. /Q

p. 61 Q: The theory is that hte longer and bigger the rack or horn, the longer that animal has endured upon the earth. Therefore the tougher an adversary that animal must have been. Ergo, the more enduring and powerful the testimony that rack or horn bears to your courage and prowess -- and never mind that "ecological" necessity of sport hunting to spare weak animals from lingering death by cold or starvation.

p. 66 Still discussing canned hunts Q: "Wildlife, we are constantly told, would run loose across our towns and cities were it not for the sport hunters to control their population, as birds would blanket the skies without the culling services of Ducks Unlimited and other groups. Yet here they are breeding wild animals, year after year replenishing the stock, all for the sole purpose of selling and killing them, deer and bears and elephants so many products being readied for market. Animals such as deer, we are told, have no predators in many areas, and therefore need systematic culling. Yet when attempts are made to reintroduce natural predators such as wolves and coyotes into these very areas, sports hunters themselves are the very first to resist it. Weaker animals in the wild, we hear, will only die miserable deaths by starvation and exposure without sport hunters to control their population. Yet it's the bigger, stronger anilmals they're killing and wounding -- the very opposite of natural selection -- often with bows and pistols that only compund and prolong the victim's suffering. And now even bows are not quite challenging and primiteve enough for some. Safari Club president Skip Donau boasts of harvesting his smaller game with "a sling shot," and even proposes this as " a new category in the Alternative Weapons section of the REcord Book." What's the next new conservation tool, one wonders. The whip? //

p. 77 Q: Joseoph Wook Krutch in his book _The Modern Temper_:
"Killing "for sport" is the perfect type of that pure evil for which metaphysicians have sometime ssought. MOst wikced deeds are done because the doer proposes some good to himself... [but] the killer for sport has no such comprhenensible motive. He prefers death to life, darkness to light. He gets nothing except the satisfaction of saying, "something that wanted to live is dead. There is that much less vitality, consciousness, and, perhaps joy int ehuniverse. I am the Spirit that Denies."" /Q

P. 293-4 Q: "Although one hesitates to put even the most manical trophy hunter into quite the same category as a crush-video enthussiast, rationally there is not all that much difference between crushing and filming a small animal for the thrill of it and hunting and filming a large one for the thrill of it. In the pain inflicted and the pleasrues gained, ther eis no great moral distinction to be made between a crush fvideo, now illegal, and _with deadly intent_ etc. and all the rest of the sadistic filth we saw in Reno being mad and sold by perfectly leagal means."

p. 316 "And in a way the standard vegetarian argument htat he average person eats meat, and yet could not bear to see how it was produced, actually speaks well of the average person. Imagine a world in which most poeple ENJOYED hearing and seeing the details."

p. 319 Q:"Of course it is NOT in the passions and appetites that we achieve our highest potential, at least as moral beings, but more often just the opposite, in the passions that we swink to the lowest depravities, and in the denial of moral choices that we commit our worst offenses. It is part of being an adult to give up a few things now and then, to make moral judgments and to exercise self-control. And it is part of being a man to take responsibility, to face the consequences of one's own actions, to measure and to weigh things and sometimes to do without. I wonder if this doesn't explain why, even as they are incessantly strutting their masculinity, our modern hunters talk so much about being "like boys again," because in young boys cruelty may be forgiven. "Self-actulaization," for a man, is self-mastery, the strength to govern his appetites and passions and not to be governed by them."

[RandFan]

I hunt because I like it out there, I love eating moose, caribou, and deer (and even bear, and we supplement it with salmon, rockfish, halibut, burbot, ling cod, etc; it's eating at it's very finest), and when I'm out there, there's rarely any human BS to put up with. I give you a lot of grief Huntster but I have to back you up on this one. Some of my best memories are of being in the mountains, camping, stream, river and lake fishing (mostly rainbow trout), hunting grouse or quail, running the rapids, kayaking, motor bike riding.

I moved from Utah to California and took up other pursuits but I loved it when I was doing it. :)

Those who mock the sport really have no clue.

[marksman]

I am trying to figure out what drives MOST hunters as a possible common denominator. I read your post and fully understand how you like to hunt.

Let's get more people's opinions.

If you actually want to know what drives hunters, why are you asking the question on a skeptics' forum? Why not ask, I don't know... hunters?

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
I hunt because I like it out there, I love eating moose, caribou, and deer (and even bear, and we supplement it with salmon, rockfish, halibut, burbot, ling cod, etc; it's eating at it's very finest), and when I'm out there, there's rarely any human BS to put up with.
I give you a lot of grief Huntster but I have to back you up on this one. Some of my best memories are of being in the mountains, camping, stream, river and lake fishing (mostly rainbow trout), hunting grouse or quail, running the rapids, kayaking, motor bike riding.

I moved from Utah to California and took up other pursuits but I loved it when I was doing it. :)

Mrs. Huntster's family moved to Alaska from Ogden to get away from the LDS and dependent extended family. They were big on deer and waterfowl hunting. My mother-in-law had a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 243 she used for deer hunting, and handed it down to Mrs. Huntster immediately after my lovely wife harvested her first caribou with it. The rifle was purchased the year my wife was born, and the stock was shortened to fit a small woman.

I used to think Alaska was the state with the highest percentage of homes that own firearms, but was surprised to learn otherwise some time back. We're second. Utah is first.

Those who mock the sport really have no clue.

The environmental movement propaganda has been a major factor in reducing the number of hunters. It has been a mixed blessing; it reduces the hunting pressure for the remaining hunters, but it makes wildlife management a bit tougher for state biologists in those areas where hunting has undergone more of a reduction.

[bug_girl]

uh, huntster? it appears you are hunting deer with a small green TANK in your photo. Dude, that's hardcore. :D

BTW, you will never see me out in my garden without blaze orange here. There are gazillions of hunters out here in corn land, and as long as they stay off my 3 acres and don't shoot toward the house, I hope they get some lovely venison.
Many of the folks out here have huge freezers and provision for the winter.

[Furious]

I have to admit mixed feelings on this issue.

My mother despises everything about hunting. She loves the outdoors and hates that she can't take the dog for a walk for basically two months while the hunters are out. She's gone so far as to force my sister to watch Bambi before my sister went on her first deer hunt. :D

My dad basically hunts to get away from my mom I think. Loves the adrenaline rush too from what I can tell. A very careful hunter though and never drinks or does anything unsafe from what I've seen.

I don't understand the reasons for canned hunts, but the deer population where I grew up (Southeastern MN, probably in Iamme's neck of the woods) is a downright problem. Hunters can harvest up to 5 deer in that area these days.

I think that the reasons people hunt are probably based partially around tradition, the thrill of the hunt, enjoying the outdoors, a pseudo-spiritual bonding with the animals and the ultimate reason people ever do anything for fun together: shared experience.

The article shown above about someone getting killed would absolutely disgust any respectable hunter I've ever known.

[Huntster]

uh, huntster? it appears you are hunting deer with a small green TANK in your photo. Dude, that's hardcore. :D

It's an Argo. Canadian built. It works well, but you've gotta be a pretty good mechanic in order to get out of the sticks reliably.:(

And no deer up there in the Nelchina Basin. Just about everything else is up there, though: grizzly bear, caribou, moose, dall sheep, etc. The deer up here are all on the ocean side of the coastal mountains, in the thick, heavy timber.

BTW, you will never see me out in my garden without blaze orange here.

It's still wide open up here. I've never worn blaze orange in my life (but, I must admit, I got shot once).

Many of the folks out here have huge freezers and provision for the winter.

Same here, and it's as much for the fish as the red meat. We have two freezers, but we're "extended family central", and everybody fills or raids the freezer as opportunity/need arises.

It's nothing to catch and process 50 salmon in the 5-10 lb. range at a time, 20 northern pike at a time, 15 burbot at a time, etc. We can a lot of salmon, too.

I wish I had more time to pick blueberries and make wine..................

[fuelair]

Well, according to another thread, I would have to say some of them have issues. (the dead deer sex thread, of course).

[Badger]

Well, according to another thread, I would have to say some of them have issues. (the dead deer sex thread, of course).

Minor quibble, but that deer was roadkill, and not hunted by the perp, wasn't it?

[fuelair]

Could well have been, now that you mention it - I'm in the I ought to be asleep but can't yet mode right now.

[qayak]

I hesitate to tell this story but it really happened to me.

When I was a kid I had gone with my best friend's family hunting. I was only in elementary school at the time. We were at camp when someone came over all excited and asked if someone would help him clean his deer. So we all moseyed over to see it. It was a small doe elk. You don't have to take my word for it but it really happened. My friend's dad told the guy what he had done and he at first didn't believe it. I'll be honest I didn't know the difference at the time. In any event the guy was rather upset when my friends father said he didn't want anything to do with it and wouldn't help the guy. I don't know what happened after that.

I was walking back to the truck along a road one time and a guy drove up with a doe strapped to the roof of his Toyota Landcruiser. He asked me directions to get back to the highway and afterward I told him he should probably take the doe off his roof and tuck it inside out of view because there was no doe season in that management unit. He turned a little green around the gills and checked his regulations, sure enough I was right.

So then he became paranoid that I was going to report him. I told him I didn't really care. It was just a mistake and I would rather he take the deer home and eat it than dump it in the bush to avoid being caught. I wasn't going to report him.

P.S.- A female elk is a cow not a doe. :D

[RandFan]

P.S.- A female elk is a cow not a doe. :D@#$%

Your right. :D

[The Atheist]

Do hunters have a macho problem?Ok, I'll bite.

Hunters have no problems, mate. Our goal is simply to kill - nothing wrong with that. The best hunters like to kill the widest variety of game - dairy cows, sheep, horses, etc. Birds are highly valued by hunters - I know my friend was just thrilled to bits with the bald eagle he shot last year.

The feeling obtained by killing a living, breathing animal is the basest, almost erotic, thrill. And after the kill, the drinking, yes - beer by the gallon, flown in by helicopter the week before to ensure it never runs dry.

Lovely.



Actually, Iamme, I think you'll find that hunters, taken as a group, are the most responsible gun owners on the planet. They are generally highly respectful of wildlife and the wilderness, they assist in culling undesirable species and they do less harm to the environment than a busload of organically-grown, sandal-wearing, tree-hugging twats protesting about it.