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View Full Version : Asking for your help on debunking Albert Pike quote


Gurdur
20th November 2006, 04:05 PM
Hi all,
this actually came up on my own board (see my profile), but I have not got a clue about this one, all I know is is that it looks bloody suspicious to me.

Albert Pike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike) is supposed to have written the following a century and a quarter ago or so, a quote which I find deeply suspicious; I suspect it has been greatly "bettered" in the re-telling and redistribution. I have no idea as to its original source.

So if anyone can tell me the original source, and also if possible let me know of any ....."improvements" after the fact in the text, I would be very grateful. Many thanks in advance.

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."

"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and political Zionism mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Bikewer
20th November 2006, 06:17 PM
I too would suspect this to be greatly juiced up to fit modern notions; most of the terms used (Nazi, Facist, Communist, Zionist, etc.) are all pretty much notions that appeared in the 20th century, at least as political ideas)

Gurdur
20th November 2006, 06:41 PM
I too would suspect this to be greatly juiced up to fit modern notions; most of the terms used (Nazi, Facist, Communist, Zionist, etc.) are all pretty much notions that appeared in the 20th century, at least as political ideas)
Well yes, but I need proof and details and chains of evidence.

This Guy
20th November 2006, 07:06 PM
Well yes, but I need proof and details and chains of evidence.

Would be easier to research if there was a reference to the original document this is claimed to have come from. (as you are asking for)

If the one who posted it on the other forum can't provide that. I wouldn't waste time on it.

If they are saying this is a valid quote, let them provide a reference for verification.

Gurdur
20th November 2006, 07:11 PM
I like to be comprehensive.

I'm a perfectionist at times.

Kopji
20th November 2006, 07:20 PM
The quotes attributed to Albert Pike seem to all originate from a single source, an author named Guy Carr. He claims the letter came by way of translation of a book in the British Museum, which they deny ever having. [translation: "Wha?"]

If you are more curious than I am (I generally quit at the point when all participants seem equally nutty) an investigation into the book "THE MYSTERY OF FREEMASONRY" might be revealing. Carr and Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez were religious zealots of similar ilk, and this could all just be made up to serve some holy cause they both shared.


On August 15, 1871, Albert Pike described in a letter that written to Giuseppe Mazzini plans for three world wars that were seen as necessary to bring about the One World Order (the “New World Order”). The summary plan for the first two world wars would be an incredible description for even a modern historian to write, after the events took place. This letter was on display in the British Museum Library in London, and it was copied by William Guy Carr, a former Intelligence Officer in the Royal Canadian Navy.

http://blog.mjac.co.uk/archives/57-The-Third-World-War.html


The CT in full regalia:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/ignor/illumind.htm

The unbiased translator Guy Carr:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr

The quotes attributed to Albert Pike are found in Carr's book "Pawns in the Game"
The quote is entirely hearsay or a work of fiction.


However, Carr's later book, Satan, Prince of This World, includes the following footnote:

"The Keeper of manuscripts recently informed the author that this letter is NOT catalogued in the British Museum Library. It seems strange that a man of Cardinal Rodriguez's knowledge should have said that it WAS in 1925." (William Guy Carr, Satan, Prince of This World, Emissary Publications, Clackamas, Oreg., p. 39)

More recently, the British Museum confirmed in writing to researcher Michael Haupt that such a document has never been in their possession.

Whatever the source of the alleged plan for three world wars, it has become a topic for discussion among conspiracy researchers, and is cited in seminal "conspiracy" books such as Des Griffin's Fourth Reich of the Rich.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr


Enjoy!

Ladewig
20th November 2006, 07:26 PM
I don't really understand why it is important to know the exact source of the quote as the last parts is pure nonsense.

Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Atheism will all be destroyed - "ya, sure."

Kopji
20th November 2006, 07:35 PM
The whole things seems anachronistic considering it was supposed to be written in 1871 or thereabouts.

Of course, the CT'ers will just claim that the non existing document is simply more evidence of how powerful and influential the masons are - that they could remove all traces from the Museum.

There is a seductive beauty to CT that can sorta suck people in like a vacuum cleaner.