Why didn't Al Gore Think of This?

[Darth Rotor]

I just love the burlesque that is Mexican politics, and the latest move by the "left" (???) candidate in the recent presidential elections.

"I lost the election, but I am sworn in as "real" president anway, and my people will obstruct the swearing in of Presidente elect Calderon." (http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=mexico21&date=20061121&query=Obrador) He even got that neat looking green, white, and red sash draped on him and everything. It looks good on him, I must admit.

Based in Mexico City, López Obrador's parallel government has its own Cabinet, but it will not collect taxes or make laws and will rely on donations to carry out its plans.

"I swear to honor and fulfill the constitution as the legitimate president," López Obrador said to tens of thousands of supporters in Mexico City's main plaza, the Zocalo.

He said his first action would be to hold a plebiscite on the drafting of a new constitution.

López Obrador also said he would cancel the generous pensions of former presidents and would propose an audit of the Treasury Department "because the privileged of Mexico ... don't pay taxes and, when they do pay them, they get them back later."

Another goal will be trying to prevent Calderón's Dec. 1 inauguration.

Supporters who gathered in the Zocalo on Monday carried signs lashing out against not only Calderón but the Roman Catholic Church, the mainstream media and rival leftists such as Zapatista rebel leader Subcomandante Marcos, who repeatedly criticized López Obrador during the campaign.
Besides the danger of pissing off the Zapatista leader . . .

Brilliant. Al Gore missed a trick. He could have (in 2000) appointed a shadow government, funded by his wealthy patrons, who . . . oh wait, those bastidges cut and run for their own reasons shortly after the election, building web sites and all that neat stuff.

Never mind. Al did the right thing. Had his campaign speeches, and his debates, been as eloquent and well articulated as his concession speech, he'd have never had to make it.

DR

[Grammatron]

Why would you want another civil war?

[Darth Rotor]

Why would you want another civil war?
Did you read my whole post?
Never mind. Al did the right thing. Had his campaign speeches, and his debates, been as eloquent and well articulated as his concession speech, he'd have never had to make it.

DR

[Grammatron]

Did you read my whole post?

DR
I did read your post, but I don't like when posts answer their own questions, so I conviniently ignored the last part.

[Darth Rotor]

I did read your post, but I don't like when posts answer their own questions, so I conviniently ignored the last part.
They can't all be gems. :)

DR

[Ziggurat]

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/7194/393/400/436050/Mark%20in%20Mexico%20Mexico%20City%20AMLOs%20Inaug uration%205.jpg

<sarcasm>Yeah, this is JUST the sort of populism the western hemisphere hasn't had enough of.</sarcasm>

[steverino]

They can't all be gems. :)

DR

There, there DR. My golden retriever, Alice, thought it was a keeper.:o

[fuelair]

<sarcasm>Yeah, this is JUST the sort of populism the western hemisphere hasn't had enough of.</sarcasm>
_
Mexicoland uber alles!!!

[fuelair]

Why didn't Al Gore Think of This?

Because he has a brain (unlike the Mexican nut job and our (well, not mine - but you know what I mean) shrub).

[Pescado]

I just love the burlesque that is Mexican politics, and the latest move by the "left" (???) candidate in the recent presidential elections.

"I lost the election, but I am sworn in as "real" president anway, and my people will obstruct the swearing in of Presidente elect Calderon." (http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=mexico21&date=20061121&query=Obrador) He even got that neat looking green, white, and red sash draped on him and everything. It looks good on him, I must admit.


Besides the danger of pissing off the Zapatista leader . . .

Brilliant. Al Gore missed a trick. He could have (in 2000) appointed a shadow government, funded by his wealthy patrons, who . . . oh wait, those bastidges cut and run for their own reasons shortly after the election, building web sites and all that neat stuff.

Never mind. Al did the right thing. Had his campaign speeches, and his debates, been as eloquent and well articulated as his concession speech, he'd have never had to make it.

DR
Yeah, this guy was representing the left in his candidacy. Seems to me that he fancies playing dress-up and LARPing, because that's about all he's doing at the moment...play-acting a 'presidential' role.

Of course some of his supporters are more than a little hostile to the Mexican government and have rose up in the past (Zapatistas, like you mentioned), so I wonder what the U.S. is doing about this matter? Surely those in power in the U.S. don't appreciate somebody trying to destabilize our southern neighbor and one of our biggest trading partners. <CTer>Can we expect to see Obrador in an unfortunate 'accident' if he actually ends up having any influence or if he gets too lovey-lovey with the guerillas? </CT>

[Darth Rotor]

Yeah, this guy was representing the left in his candidacy. Seems to me that he fancies playing dress-up and LARPing, because that's about all he's doing at the moment...play-acting a 'presidential' role.

Of course some of his supporters are more than a little hostile to the Mexican government and have rose up in the past (Zapatistas, like you mentioned), so I wonder what the U.S. is doing about this matter? Surely those in power in the U.S. don't appreciate somebody trying to destabilize our southern neighbor and one of our biggest trading partners. <CTer>Can we expect to see Obrador in an unfortunate 'accident' if he actually ends up having any influence or if he gets too lovey-lovey with the guerillas? </CT>
Why should the US "do" anything about this at all? I am confident that Mexicans can sort out their election issues without interference. If this grows into something beyond posturing, and Mexico (low odds) erupts into a civil war over this (which I seriously doubt), then seal the border. Learn a lesson from the Former Yugoslavia mess: let 'em play, just keep them on their field. It worked in Mozambique, once some of the interfering outside parties stopped interfering.

DR

[steverino]

Obrador is on the left, so why aren't the Zapatista's backing him? I am confused. Are they derivative of Zapata, dude in the Brando movie?

[Darth Rotor]

Obrador is on the left, so why aren't the Zapatista's backing him? I am confused. Are they derivative of Zapata, dude in the Brando movie?
I think subComandante Marcos and his pals are more inclined to favor secession, or land reforms on a scale that no politician can support. Sorry, my memory of the Zapatista platform is a bit old.

DR

[senorpogo]

I like it.

And, I'm proud to announce, that his imaginary government and my imaginary government have officially began a diplomatic relationship. I'll be dispatching a team of super cybernetic diplomats from my Robo-Diplocore immediately.

We look forward to a long, prosperous, imaginary peace with the new Mexican government.

[geni]

Ukraine gave them ideas.

[Pescado]

Why should the US "do" anything about this at all? I am confident that Mexicans can sort out their election issues without interference. If this grows into something beyond posturing, and Mexico (low odds) erupts into a civil war over this (which I seriously doubt), then seal the border. Learn a lesson from the Former Yugoslavia mess: let 'em play, just keep them on their field. It worked in Mozambique, once some of the interfering outside parties stopped interfering.

DR
Yeah, not like Mexico or the guerillas are much of a military threat to the United States. I agree that we could and would seal the borders to keep them out if we needed to. I wasn't really referring to the military or national security aspect of it, though.

I was referring more to the fact that Mexico is a huge trading partner of the U.S., and it is our government's responsibility to protect U.S. interests. Even if we are not really threatened on a national security level by anything that may happen, we would be threatened economically. The U.S. government has a history of not appreciating interference in that sort of thing, especially in 'our' hemisphere.

I don't actually think that the C.I.A., or whatever agency is responsible for that sort of thing these days, would actually off Obrador unless matters started spiraling out of control, and even then it would be extremely risky and probably not worthwhile. However, I'd be surprised if we didn't have our own guys on the ground in Mexico, infiltrating as much of this organization as possible, keeping abreast of things and making sure that those very low odds of civil war stay very low. To tell you the truth, I'd be worried if we didn't.

[Darth Rotor]

I don't actually think that the C.I.A., or whatever agency is responsible for that sort of thing these days, would actually off Obrador unless matters started spiraling out of control, and even then it would be extremely risky and probably not worthwhile. However, I'd be surprised if we didn't have our own guys on the ground in Mexico, infiltrating as much of this organization as possible, keeping abreast of things and making sure that those very low odds of civil war stay very low. To tell you the truth, I'd be worried if we didn't.
Insofar as the trading partner bit, yes, a point of concern to those with capital and plant invested in Mexico. My concern is less pretty: the tendency for civil wars to cause massive refugee flows. We already have that, sort of, and we don't need anymore.

Mexico has seen civil wars come and go, some more bloody than others. I don't think this will turn into one. I think the social norms are well enough grounded in Mexico for this political tension to be resolved well short of bloodshed.

DR

[Pescado]

Insofar as the trading partner bit, yes, a point of concern to those with capital and plant invested in Mexico. My concern is less pretty: the tendency for civil wars to cause massive refugee flows. We already have that, sort of, and we don't need anymore.

Mexico has seen civil wars come and go, some more bloody than others. I don't think this will turn into one. I think the social norms are well enough grounded in Mexico for this political tension to be resolved well short of bloodshed.

DR
Agreed.

Let's just hope that the new president(the non-pretend one) greases the wheels by handling the issue in such a manner as to encourage reconciliation with the lefties, thereby possibly driving a wedge between the radicals and moderates supporting Obrador. There were(are?) lots of active(protesting) Obrador supporters, after all.

Of course the state of Oaxaca will probably never come around. But that much was to be expected.

[Grammatron]

Ukraine gave them ideas.

Didn't help "The People" in the long run.

[steverino]

Of course the state of Oaxaca will probably never come around. But that much was to be expected.

Oh that nutty Oaxaca. When will they EVER get their Oaxacan act together? Can't they spell their name different, for my sake at least. Wahaka, or Huahaca? That would, in my book, give them more cashe to enter the family of nations.

[Pescado]

Oh that nutty Oaxaca. When will they EVER get their Oaxacan act together? Can't they spell their name different, for my sake at least. Wahaka, or Huahaca? That would, in my book, give them more cashe to enter the family of nations.
At least you don't have to pronounce "X'cacel" or "Xochil". Wait, now I guess you do :D

But if you want somebody to blame for words like those, then it's those troule-making Mayans.

[Darth Rotor]

But if you want somebody to blame for words like those, then it's those troule-making Mayans.
Splitters!

I went looking for CutTheThrottle, or Quetzalcoatl, or whatever his name is, but all I found was a MezcalBottle.

I don't remember much after that worm. :cool:

DR

[geni]

Didn't help "The People" in the long run.

Long run hasn't happened yet. For a while every former soviet block oposition party leader was trying to pretend to be Yushchenko. Quite posible that this has spread to mexico.