UFO Conference - Mexican Never Seen UFOs

[star.logic]

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y445qx

This is a video hosted on google, about the recent influx of sitings in Mexico, and what is believed to be occuring, this video is in relation (only by topic) to the Disclosure Project hosted by Dr. Greer. It shows many many video clips, as well as pictures, and talks about many interesting subjects.

Please watch this video, if you wish to post any thoughts on it in the thread, as well as keeping the video and things generally related to it, as the subject of this thread. Feel free to post your thoughts, but please, make it acceptable for all to read!

[davidsmith73]

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y445qx

This is a video hosted on google, about the recent influx of sitings in Mexico, and what is believed to be occuring, this video is in relation (only by topic) to the Disclosure Project hosted by Dr. Greer. It shows many many video clips, as well as pictures, and talks about many interesting subjects.

Please watch this video, if you wish to post any thoughts on it in the thread, as well as keeping the video and things generally related to it, as the subject of this thread. Feel free to post your thoughts, but please, make it acceptable for all to read!

I saw this video a while back. I think it contains some very interesting footage. However, its a shame that crop circles are mentioned so much towards the end. They are fake. Surely everyone knows this. There is even a web site made by the people who admit to faking them.

A couple of other questions:

Could the "UFO fleets" be birds?

Could the bizzare white elongated morphing things be half-inflated balloons?

[Astrophotographer]

The instant I saw Jaime Maussan, I knew it was a money grab. All you have to do is go to the UFO hall of shame (http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall4.html) and see what he really is about.

I have critiqued the two most significant UFO events presented by him as evidence. The 1991 solar eclipse (http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/mexico.html)included videos of the planet Venus (its motion was due to the cameraman and not due to the object) and the 2004 Mexican AF video (http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/Mexico04a.html)was nothing more than oil well fires seen from a distance. Maussan is nothing more than a charlatan looking for prestige and money.

[fuelair]

To star.illogic

You are still having a problem with the concept of how threads operate. You can start them, but you do not get to dictate how they will go. Bring up ufos' and crap , debunked videos because you are trolling (I'm gracefully not offering the possibility that you are differently abled (I can be P.C.) and actually think they are real) and you had best expect stong responses to your silliness. Bring up real physics, chemistry, astronomy and it would likely be different.

[Horatius]

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y445qx

This is a video hosted on google, about the recent influx of sitings in Mexico, and what is believed to be occuring, this video is in relation (only by topic) to the Disclosure Project hosted by Dr. Greer. It shows many many video clips, as well as pictures, and talks about many interesting subjects.

Please watch this video, if you wish to post any thoughts on it in the thread, as well as keeping the video and things generally related to it, as the subject of this thread. Feel free to post your thoughts, but please, make it acceptable for all to read!

Why do you keep posting these overly long videos that spend way to much time listening to people talk, rather than presenting the actual evidence?

If you want a "serious" discussion of some footage, post that. Not some useless talking head fluff. If I wanted to sit around listening to uncritical discussions of UFOs, I'd go to a UFO conference.

You're on a site dedicated to skepticism. You can be pretty sure that almost no one here is going to be swayed by opinions from Joe Random Ufoguy. Show us what facts you have, and we can talk about that.

[Q-Source]

I have critiqued the two most significant UFO events presented by him as evidence. The 1991 solar eclipse (http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/mexico.html)included videos of the planet Venus (its motion was due to the cameraman and not due to the object) and the 2004 Mexican AF video (http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/Mexico04a.html)was nothing more than oil well fires seen from a distance. Maussan is nothing more than a charlatan looking for prestige and money.


You've done a good job. I still can't understand why people give any credibility to Jaime Maussan. He was a fervent supporter of "Dr. Reed's UFO" which later was exposed as a hoax. I would think such event would be enough to end his career. But it seems it wasn't.

[Astrophotographer]

You've done a good job. I still can't understand why people give any credibility to Jaime Maussan. He was a fervent supporter of "Dr. Reed's UFO" which later was exposed as a hoax. I would think such event would be enough to end his career. But it seems it wasn't.


In the world of UFOlogy you can back anybody and still make a lot of money talking about crashed spaceships, videos of balloons from a distance, hoaxed videos, alien abductions, etc. and there are always the UFO faithful that will believe you when you trot out you next blurry and out of focus video showing definitive proof of alien visitation.

[star.logic]

To star.illogic

You know what it should be, thank you, if you cooperate I will respond as you intend me to!

[star.logic]

I saw this video a while back. I think it contains some very interesting footage.


So do I!


However, its a shame that crop circles are mentioned so much towards the end. They are fake. Surely everyone knows this. There is even a web site made by the people who admit to faking them.


They began their crop circle making career after they first saw a crop circle, and so on and so forth for every "crop circle maker" the first crop circle was from a very very long time ago, before any of them were born!


A couple of other questions:

Could the "UFO fleets" be birds?

Could the bizzare white elongated morphing things be half-inflated balloons?

Could be!

The instant I saw Jaime Maussan, I knew it was a money grab. All you have to do is go to the UFO hall of shame (http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall4.html) and see what he really is about.


I'll stay here and focus on the video, but thank you!


I have critiqued the two most significant UFO events presented by him as evidence. The 1991 solar eclipse (http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/mexico.html)included videos of the planet Venus (its motion was due to the cameraman and not due to the object) and the


Don't know what you're referencing, sorry!


2004 Mexican AF video (http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/Mexico04a.html)was nothing more than oil well fires seen from a distance. Maussan is nothing more than a charlatan looking for prestige and money.


They addressed this and what you say does not seem to be the plausible truth!

Why do you keep posting these overly long videos that spend way to much time listening to people talk, rather than presenting the actual evidence?

The reason is not the focus of this thread!


If you want a "serious" discussion of some footage, post that.


Ok???


Not some useless talking head fluff.If I wanted to sit around listening to uncritical discussions of UFOs, I'd go to a UFO conference.


Maybe you have a trouble deciding whether you wanted to watch the video or not?

If you didn't want to watch it, then who made you?


You're on a site dedicated to skepticism.


I'm aware of this!


You can be pretty sure that almost no one here is going to be swayed by opinions from Joe Random Ufoguy.


They are supposed to be your opinions, after you form them, but if you do not form them, then what's the point of listening to him?


Show us what facts you have, and we can talk about that.

Based on what?

In the world of UFOlogy you can back anybody and still make a lot of money talking about crashed spaceships, videos of balloons from a distance, hoaxed videos, alien abductions, etc. and there are always the UFO faithful that will believe you when you trot out you next blurry and out of focus video showing definitive proof of alien visitation.

Videos are only a small fraction of what accounts to "Definitive proof".

[davidsmith73]

They began their crop circle making career after they first saw a crop circle, and so on and so forth for every "crop circle maker" the first crop circle was from a very very long time ago, before any of them were born!

I agree. When crop circles first appeared to be being faked for the "mass media", "real" ones had already been linked with some classic UFO experiences, such as the Langenburg landings in 1974. On what knowledge I have, the "real" crop circles are usually just simple circles.

[Cuddles]

I agree. When crop circles first appeared to be being faked for the "mass media", "real" ones had already been linked with some classic UFO experiences, such as the Langenburg landings in 1974. On what knowledge I have, the "real" crop circles are usually just simple circles.

The first ever crop circles were not only admitted as a hoax by those who made them, they actually recorded themselves doing it. There had never been reports of crop circles before this, so it seems a little odd to assume they were copying anything. "Real" crop circles are simple circles because they are the easiest to make. After some practice they realised they could make much more complex shapes, as did those who copied them. Some people don't have enough time on their hands to make complex things, so they stick with plain circles.

[davidsmith73]

The first ever crop circles were not only admitted as a hoax by those who made them, they actually recorded themselves doing it. There had never been reports of crop circles before this.

I'm not aware of this. When did they do this? What source did you get this info from?

[Cuddles]

It was Doug Bower and Dave Chorley in 1978. They admitted to it in 1991, and the surviving one was interviewed in 1999 by the BBC, where he gave a demonstration of exactly how to make any shape you like, proving that aliens are completely unneeded. This site (http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/cropcircles.html) sums it up quite nicely. Of course, all the UFO woos don't believe it for various reasons, usually things like "they couldn't have made them all", it being completely obvious that no-one could ever have copied them.

Having done a little research it seems I was wrong that crop circles had never been reported, but it seems that previous ones were not as clear or regular and are much more likely to have been natural things like animals or the wind, rather than hoaxes. Apparently the first ever record is from the 1600s, but this is more likely to be wishful thinking on the part of the interpreters, rather than a crop circles as we know them now.

Edit : To clarify, Doug and Dave produced the first ones that were actually reported by the media and were responsible for the current craze. Without them, the phenomenon of crop circles would be virtually non-existent and would be totally unconnected to UFOs.

[Indolent Wretch]

So do I!
The instant I saw Jaime Maussan, I knew it was a money grab. All you have to do is go to the UFO hall of shame and see what he really is about.

I'll stay here and focus on the video, but thank you


This seems somewhat naive star.logic don't you think? You are offered a link that shows a man associated with your evidence is a known fraud and charlatan who has in the past been caught faking video evidence.

And you said you rather focus on the video and ignore this fact?
I'd advise following the link and reading whats there.


But also, tell us about yourself. You seem driven to the point of mania in your desire for this footage to be of genuine extraterrestrial entities. Why are you investing so much of yourself in this? Why is this so important to you?

As an outside observer it seems that it's a subject that causes you to lose any sense of proportion you may have.


Let me tell you about myself. I'm in my 30s and have been fascinated by space exploration and the future since I was a young child. There is nothing I can think of that would be as glorious and world changing as the discovery of intelligent non-terrestrial life. If I saw evidence that I thought was genuine I would be absolutely delighted.

But this faded out, blurred, non descripit, logically explained, predictably behaving flotsam & jetsam has absolutely nothing to do with E.T.

And I cannot understand why you are so taken with it.

[Jocce]

Quote:
2004 Mexican AF video was nothing more than oil well fires seen from a distance. Maussan is nothing more than a charlatan looking for prestige and money.

They addressed this and what you say does not seem to be the plausible truth!

Why is it not plausible to you?

[davidsmith73]

You are offered a link that shows a man associated with your evidence is a known fraud and charlatan who has in the past been caught faking video evidence.


From what the Hall of Shame says, he seems only to have claimed that certain footage was genuine rather than actually faked any videos himself. This makes him more of a bad reporter, rather than a fraud IMO.

[Indolent Wretch]

From what the Hall of Shame says, he seems only to have claimed that certain footage was genuine rather than actually faked any videos himself.

Well from my reading of the site and in my honest opinion the guy...

- Constantly claims he has a multitude of proofs and then never shows any.

My Take - He's a liar

- Fervant supporter of at least 4 known UFO hoaxes, at least one of which he promoted to his own profit.

My Take - He's a liar, an accessory to fakery, and probably guilty of obtaining monies by deception.

- Claims the stars in the sky are actually UFOs

My Take - He ain't that dumb, he's just lying to fool the naive.

- Claims UFO evidence is real without doing any investigation

My Take - Knows what the outcome will be, doesn't see why he should waste his time when he's going to say the opposite anyway.


This makes him more of a bad reporter, rather than a fraud IMO.

Well your 'O' is a damn sight more generous than my 'O'. Nobody makes a successful career out of this garbage without having a brain, he knows it's all crap and he doesn't care. As a result of this obviously energetic people like 'star.logic' are deluded by nonsensical **** when they may have had a chance to use their energies for something a bit more constructive.

Maybe he isn't the guy who paints the Rembrandt, but he's the guy with the art gallery telling everyone it's genuine and worth 10 million when he knows the paint is still wet.

To me, that makes him a faker. Worse than that in fact. At least the fakers are capable of a little creativity.

[wipeout]

They addressed this and what you say does not seem to be the plausible truth!

If the infrared camera can pick up a small aircraft engine at 30 kilometers, why not 100 meter tall columns of fire at 180 kilometers? The pilots said there were no radar signals during the main sighting.

Also, don't the smaller lights the arrows I've added point to look like what you might expect reflections off the sea from oil platform flares to look like?

[Astrophotographer]

I'll stay here and focus on the video, but thank you!


Of course the video is by a proven scam artist. I have seen this video. Nothing in there is the least bit compelling. I don't need to list to Maussan crow about this for over an hour. Sorry, but this is junk. If you want to talk about specific videos and specific cases, then do so. Don't just say these videos are evidence. Each has to be taken on a case by case basis.

Don't know what you're referencing, sorry!


Then you don't know anything about this video because some of the videos are from the planet venus during a solar eclipse in 1991! According to Maussan, this started the Mexican UFO wave. Why don't you research this before you believe it.


They addressed this and what you say does not seem to be the plausible truth!


Then you are ill informed and Maussan is saying this because he presented this as proof of UFOs. This was discussed ad infinitum on this board and everyone finally agreed that the videos were distant oil well flares. If you had gone to my link you would understand. Instead you are interested in this snake oil salesman's video. Can you say "gullible"?

[star.logic]

I agree. When crop circles first appeared to be being faked for the "mass media", "real" ones had already been linked with some classic UFO experiences, such as the Langenburg landings in 1974. On what knowledge I have, the "real" crop circles are usually just simple circles.

Interesting!

The first ever crop circles were not only admitted as a hoax by those who made them, they actually recorded themselves doing it.


Couldn't be farthest from the truth!


There had never been reports of crop circles before this, so it seems a little odd to assume they were copying anything.


Same!


"Real" crop circles are simple circles because they are the easiest to make.


It may ring true if your previous quotes were correct!


After some practice they realised they could make much more complex shapes, as did those who copied them.


Sounds perfect, yet your first statement was invalid!


Some people don't have enough time on their hands to make complex things, so they stick with plain circles.

Sounds correct, if they are human! :)

This seems somewhat naive star.logic don't you think?


No! Safety reasons!

[Jocce]

Safety reasons? You afraid the aliens are out to get you or what is that reply supposed to mean?

[fuelair]

No, just a CT troll or trollish CTer out for a lie or two (I say this because otherwise I would have to assume massive ignorance/gullibility).

[Mashuna]

This is only going to sound petty because of its inherant pettiness. But that's not going to stop me.

Note that the above sentances are completed with a full stop. <= (there's another)

Not with an exclamation mark, which would indicate. . .surprise!

I suggest a greater use of the former, and much less of the latter.

Oh, and crop circles fake, etc. . .

[star.logic]

Safety reasons? You afraid the aliens are out to get you or what is that reply supposed to mean?

No! I am not afraid of the "aliens", and they are not out to get anyone!

This is only going to sound petty because of its inherant pettiness. But that's not going to stop me.

Note that the above sentances are completed with a full stop. <= (there's another)

Not with an exclamation mark, which would indicate. . .surprise!

I suggest a greater use of the former, and much less of the latter.


Thank you for taking notice! Although that's your intention for using them, not mine!


Oh, and crop circles fake, etc. . .Most indefinite!

[wombatwal]

Why do you all pander to this troll?

[HeyLeroy]

Couldn't be farthest from the truth!

Same!

It may ring true if your previous quotes were correct!

Sounds perfect, yet your first statement was invalid!

Sounds correct, if they are human! :)

Maybe you could back this up with some... er, y'know, evidence?

Anyone can post a video:
http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=66CBFC3F-ECC7-4B65-97CF-1

[star.logic]

What are you asking?

[Mashuna]

What are you asking?

Where?
What?
Why?
When?
How?
Who?
Really?
Are you sure?
Really sure?
Positive?
Absolutely positive?
Will that do for now?

[xcoded]

Whoa, Jaime Mausan actually got as far as this forum? I didn't realize he was that famous, here in Mexico he's a regular guest to a certain morning TV show alongside such distinguished guests as the weird guy with a funny Hat that SWEARS that they have a time machine hidden inside the vatican and that they can take photographs of the past… also the guy that claims he has an evil doll that magically comes alive and a couple of bozo "ghost hunters" that always show silly Night Vision footage of them running away from -something- even in Mexico he's lowest-tier TV material. He comes about once a year to Guadalajara to put on some kind of show where he shows his extraterrestrial material (alleged of course, they once showed that on TV and it looked like a piece of bent aluminum and another piece that was pretty clearly debris from a tire). I had no idea he was world famous!

[wipeout]

I think several people here interested in investigating UFOs have known about Maussan for a while. Maussan also knows of a couple of JREF forum members too and I seem to remember that one, Captain Alejandro Franz, has actually been criticized on TV by Maussan for correctly solving UFO mysteries.

[baron]

Most indefinite!
etc.

You do your cause no favours by this silliness. Why not produce any evidence you have, or a reasoned argument?

If I wanted to put forwards my own case on crop circles I'd start with the non-eleborate "nest" or "swirl" variety that clearly weren't produced by Doug and Dave or anybody else, and were likely results of indigenous wildlife or weather phenomena, and trace their history through to the blatant fakes that have only recently declined in number as people got bored of the novelty.

Your opinon may well differ from mine but at least take the trouble to present it, or people will think you're an ass.

[Mashuna]

I'm just upset that Star hasn't answered my very reasonable questions :D

[Cuddles]

also the guy that claims he has an evil doll that magically comes alive

It's not called Chucky is it?

[xcoded]

It's not called Chucky is it?


Hehe… no, not quite… but on one of those programs they put this plush doll on top of a bed and placed a nightshot™ camera to see him move… of course the lame duck "skeptic" they have on the show asked about wires or possible animatronic and was dismissed without any possibility to examine the doll…*he just had to have the "assurance" that it wasn't wired or tampered with. ;) What's mind boggling is that some people actually believe this…*It went as far as having a friend during college that claimed was attacked by a Troll doll that jumped on him :jaw-dropp

[xcoded]

Maussan also knows of a couple of JREF forum members too and I seem to remember that one, Captain Alejandro Franz, has actually been criticized on TV by Maussan for correctly solving UFO mysteries.
Oh that's just Mausan being Mausan… he'll never admit to any explanation outside the alien one…*even if you plaster it right on his face. He likes to spew BS about how his team analyzes the videos to disprove forgery…*many of which are pretty easy to fabricate to anyone with adequate photoshop skills

[wipeout]

I did see a clip of one movie he was endorsing which reminded me of the unintentionally hilarious science fiction movie Plan 9 from Outer Space. :)

Maussan makes the UFO "Hall of Shame" here:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall4.html

[The Atheist]

Why do you all pander to this troll?Same reason they pander to all the other ones. Which thread on the forum has the highest post/day?

I just can't wait for the day all the UFO guys realise that the UFOs have been coming here for years and actually assassinated Kennedy so they could assist the Illuminati takeover after completing 9/11 and starting the Iraq war to weaken USA so much as to be able take over the world, aided by their human accomplices, THE JOOOOS.

[Teetop]

The first ever crop circles were not only admitted as a hoax by those who made them, they actually recorded themselves doing it. There had never been reports of crop circles before this, so it seems a little odd to assume they were copying anything. "Real" crop circles are simple circles because they are the easiest to make. After some practice they realised they could make much more complex shapes, as did those who copied them. Some people don't have enough time on their hands to make complex things, so they stick with plain circles.

Actually, there may have been a crop circle incident in 1678-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/life/aliens/cropcircles/index.shtml

maybe humans have been doing this sort of thing for centuries.

[The Atheist]

They have this little gem on that site:

Experts have examined the bent grain stalks and the soil inside the circles, and often claim to find anomalies. For example, some say they have found more magnetic iron compounds in the soil inside the circles than outside. However, these results are only meaningful if the examinations are carried out as part of a controlled experiment.

And if the "experts" are expert in something associated to the investigation, geologists, chemists, botanists etc., rather than the "experts" who usually carry out these investigations - "experts" in UFOs.