Things that set people off...

[pgwenthold]

In the Pat Robertson thread, Landis made the following comment:

Pat is probably figuring George W. will be re-elected in 2004. Four years later, the economy will be in ruins and the US public will elect Hillary Clinton (Who epitomizes "evil" to the moral majority (minority).

This reminds me of a topic I've been thinking about lately. What are the things that really set certain people off? For example, there is just something about Hillary Clinton that really gets Republicans in a tizzy. If we were in grade school, we'd almost have to think that Rush Limbaugh must have a crush on her given how much he obsesses on her. I mean, a failed attempt at reforming health care really shouldn't warrent this much vitriol and hatred, should it?

Another one that I can think of is flag burning. The emotion this topic invokes is amazing, and it seems it is all some people can think about. For example, one of the soldiers who was in killed in Iraq was from the town where I grew up. They had a huge military funeral, and all, and people from all around attended and/or participated. The guy's brothers, who also have military experience, worked very hard to have a sharp burial service, and in fact practiced things like folding the flag to make sure they properly honored their brother, who was probably the most military person I have ever known. They did it right, for him.

One of the brothers, who is still in the service, spoke at the funeral. To paraphrase his speech at the funeral: "Some people want to burn the flag. But they won't touch this flag, which covers the coffin of Gunnery Sargeant..."

While some people will burn the US flag in protest, do they really think someone would steal the flag from a combat fatality's coffin and burn it? Isn't that a little over-reaction?

And it just isn't conservatives. I knew a woman in college who was equally gung-ho about abortion rights, and any hint of a suggestion about anything related to abortion would set her off.

OTOH, issues are one thing. People can be passionate about them. But the hatred of Hillary Clinton is something that always puzzles me.

[Upchurch]

It's the same principle as discussed in this thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22124). Leaders need an enemy to rally their followers against. I'm not sure why all conservative radio talk shows are fixated on the Clintons, but it seems to work for them.

[DavidJames]

Hillary is the perfect foil for conservatives. Not only does she represent all that is "liberal", but she is a woman, with strong opinions. A negative that, I'm afraid, crosses party lines. I believe conservatives would love her to run in 2008, in fact,
I'm guessing if Hillary decides to campaign for the Democratic nomination, her largest campaign contributors might come from the Republican national committee :)

[SteveW]

I have always been jealous of those people so gung ho over an issue that it consumes them. I have enough trouble finding time to make ends meet that I wish I could have a life that enabled me to protest the removal of the 10 Commandments, or have anti-Hillary rallies, or other such nonsense.

[Beleth]

Originally posted by Upchurch
I'm not sure why all conservative radio talk shows are fixated on the Clintons,Because, even to this day, they are the best-known Democrats in the country.

Which is sad on many different levels.

[SFB]

Free Tibet

[Graham]

Gun control (runs and hides)

[Landis]

The Republican's contribute their narrow success in the 2002 Presidential election to the fact that they were able to rally their supporters hatred towards Bill & Hillary Clinton. Extreme Conservative Talk Show host like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage play on people's hatred. They know it is easier for people to give in to the emotion of hatred than to maintain a controlled rational state of mind. For ratings and their own egos, they go with the flow. Their influence can easily be seen right here on this forum.

[Beleth]

Landis -

I agree about Rush but Michael Savage actually lets noises that sound like rational ideas come out of his mouth from time to time. I have no idea whether this is intentional on his part or not. Maybe it's because he has moved beyond the Clintons (and has such a good local target in the California governor).

But Rush is a total h8r clown, granted.

[Landis]

Beleth-

I must admit I have never listened to Michael Savage's radio show although I live in the area. I only see him pop up on various Fox tv shows as a commentator and it usually involves bashing the Clinton's. I will take your word for it that he occassionally lets rational ideas spout out of his mouth. I do watch Bill O'Reilly and find that he too occassionally takes the high road.

[Dragonrock]

My hatred for Mrs. Clinton is personal so I couldn't explain why other conservatives hate her. I worked in the White House Communications Agency during the end of the first Bush administration and the first term of the Clinton administration.

Mrs. Clinton is one of the most hateful and two-faced people I've ever seen. While I will agree that most politicians are two-faced, Mrs. Clinton took it to a new level. Once she was meeting a bunch of school children and one of them sneezed on her. When she left the room she went off on anyone who was nearby, staff, secret service, military personel, anyone she could find. Anytime the cameras weren't on her she yelled, swore, threw things, and basically behaved like a spoiled 4 year old.

I understand that I don't have proof so I don't expect anyone to change their opinions because of this, I just wanted to explain my own personal loathing of her.

[Dancing David]

Why should the second amendment be so important?

and what about that alien autopsy, why is the government hiding it, along with bigfoot.

Iam hoping that people will think I am nuts and not flame me over the first statement.

[Ladewig]

Given the whole casting-stones-without-sin thingie. I have had animated responses when the discussion turns to magnetic therapy, Roswell, ADC, and such. I prefer to call them heart-felt positions. Others might call them "fervent" when I am in the room and "irrational" when I am not in the room.

Am I the only one in this forum who falls into that category?

[Quasi]

Bill signed two laws in 1994, the FDC and DSHEA acts which deregulated alternative medicine, in terms of dietary supplements and claims.

He commited some financial improprieties as president (receiving $200,000.00 US for pardoning A. Gordon Braswell.) The "fee" came from his brother who "represented" Braswell and brought his case to Clinton.

Clinton also lied on national TV in front of the whole nation about having sex with his intern, later to be caught with proof of the lie.

He also sidestepped questions related to his drug use in the past.
"I did not inhale" nonsense.

There are also rumors of significant graft regarding defense contracts.

He also allowed Chinese nationals to steal our nuclear weapons research secrets.

He failed to punish terrorists responsible for the embassy bombings and Saudi Arabian bombings.

He allowed Enron, Global Crossing, and many many others including the telecommunications industry (Senator Al Gore spearheaded the breakup of AT&T in the 1980's) to not only rip off the american public, but also specifically the employees and shareholders. Many people have now lost most of their retirement, and employees cannot find new employment (or employment with nearly as good pay etc.)

In general, it can be said that over the 1990's he made it cool to lie, cheat and steal. Granted he had a lot of help, but as president he is supposed to be upholding certain moral and ethical values.

To be fair, I strongly disagree with Bush's faith based initiatives, and his opposition to stem cell research/cloning. But he does what he says.

[Wally]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
My hatred for Mrs. Clinton is personal so I couldn't explain why other conservatives hate her. I worked in the White House Communications Agency during the end of the first Bush administration and the first term of the Clinton administration.



Cool, another whca drone!:) I was there for one year during the Ford administration (AV department). Living on the DC economy on E4 pay sucked.

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by UndeadCorpse


Cool, another whca drone!:) I was there for one year during the Ford administration (AV department). Living on the DC economy on E4 pay sucked.

Very cool, I was in the AVU also, although, shortly after I left the entire AVU was moved out of WHCA and into the WHMO placed under the control of the Office of the Administration. I was there for 6 years as an E-4 and yes, it was hard to survive on less than $1,000 a month on that enconomy.

[Ziggurat]

Originally posted by Quasi

He also sidestepped questions related to his drug use in the past.
"I did not inhale" nonsense.


I know someone around the same age, says she did the exact same thing during the sixties. It wasn't that she was trying to avoid actually smoking pot, it's that she was a clueless geek and really didn't know how you were supposed to smoke marijuana. Maybe Clinton is lying, I don't know, I wasn't there (and neither were you), but it is possible. It may not be a satisfactory answer, but you cannot label it a lie if you don't have any evidence that it was.

And regardless, I don't think that matters much in comparison to Bush's known DUIs and possible cocaine use, particularly since he favored zero-tolerance laws which he never had to face the consequences of.


He also allowed Chinese nationals to steal our nuclear weapons research secrets.


Last time I checked, Wen Ho Lee was exhonerated, and the only Chinese spy I remember us catching regarding all of this was actually a prominent REPUBLICAN fundraiser. So don't blame that whole thing on Clinton, and start getting your news from places other than Fox.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/04/10/state0301EDT0001.DTL


In general, it can be said that over the 1990's he made it cool to lie, cheat and steal. Granted he had a lot of help, but as president he is supposed to be upholding certain moral and ethical values.


You've made several speculative accusations that have little or no support, and one accusation that is in fact almost exactly the reverse of what really happened. I have no reason to believe in your conclusion regarding what Clinton made cool. I too am disapointed by his behavior in the Lewinsky scandal, but I'm even MORE troubled that this essentially private affair was used as an excuse for impeachmentt, and that so many millions of dollars were spent in search of non-existent scandals by Starr, largely because people like Scaiffe were ideologically driven to try to force a democratically elected president from power by undemocratic means. That, good sir, is a much more troubling erosion of public morals.


To be fair, I strongly disagree with Bush's faith based initiatives, and his opposition to stem cell research/cloning. But he does what he says.

No he doesn't. He's one of the biggest liars we've ever had as president. He lied about evidence that Iraq was supposedly trying to obtain enriched uranium from Niger, in a state of the union address. He lied about the true costs of his tax cuts, giving only figures for the cost using sunset provisions he later mocked and always had the intention of getting rid of. He lied that he would only cut taxes as much as we had a surplus for. He lied about Gore's correct accusations about his tax cut overwhelmingly favoring the rich during the 2000 campaign. He lied about providing funding for emergency response teams in the wake of 9/11. He just doesn't lie about sex. I'm sorry, but I take very small confort in that fact.

[Freda]

Not knowing too much about American History - who in your humble opinion has proved to be the best President to serve the USA ?

[Wally]

Originally posted by Freda
Not knowing too much about American History - who in your humble opinion has proved to be the best President to serve the USA ?

Washington
Lincoln
Both Roosevelt’s
Truman

[Freda]

Hi, ( Undeadcorpse )


Lincoln ? A good man who served his people well ! But isn't he also the one who communicated with 'dead' people ?

[Wally]

Originally posted by Freda
Hi, ( Undeadcorpse )


Lincoln ? A good man who served his people well ! But isn't he also the one who communicated with 'dead' people ?

I don’t think so, you may be thinking of his widow (Mary Todd Lincoln). She spent a good deal of her life in a mental institution after his death.
Lincoln became a successful lawyer, State Representative, and President with only one year of formal education. I find this amazing given the remote rural upbringing in Kentuky.

[Tormac]

On the original topic of the thread, I have never understood the reaction some people have towards the idea of flag burning. Burning a flag as a form of political protest seem reasonable to me. I suppose some people see the US flag as the symbol of all that is good about the US, and take it as tantamount to attacking democracy, free speech, or motherhood. <shurgs>

I think Hillary in particular, and the Clintons in general are so disliked by conservatives because the Clintons are seen as hypocrites who successfully co-opted much of the conservative Republican’s language. During the first election I remember the Clintons (I know only one of them was running, but Hillary did get an lot of face time) presenting themselves as moral reformers who were going to sweep away the corruption of the Ragen/Bush years. Most conservative Republicans think of themselves as THE moral and ethical party. The notion that the Clintons were moral reformers was really a kick in the crotch to conservative Republicans. I personally know conservative women who still despise Hillary as a hypocrite for putting up with Bill’s philandering, as well as the other ethical peccadilloes that occurred.

As far as the best president goes, I will give it to Lincoln. I think he successfully faced the most difficult period in American history.