Creating "Extreme Water" by adding sodium to regular water

[Ladewig]

If I remember my high school chemistry class correctly, adding elemental sodium to water produces a very extreme reaction. The sodium reacts with the water to produce sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen gas (H2). There is also a great deal of the formed during the reaction - enough heat to ignite the hydrogen gas.

I do hope the authorities crack down on Vance Alford's fraudulent claims.

[Beady]

I'm probably missing something, here, but when you add sodium (salt) to water, don't you get salt water?

Baking soda, OTOH...

[Sherman Bay]

I'm probably missing something, here, but when you add sodium (salt) to water, don't you get salt water?
Salt (table salt) isn't just sodium; it's sodium chloride (NaCl). Adding NaCl to H2O certainly gets you salt water.

[fuelair]

Or you can add HCl (hydrochloric acid )and sodium to water - and if the amounts are correct you will get Saltwater. But I DO NOT advise doing this at home. Or you can mix the proper amounts of NaOH and HCl together and get saltwater - safer than first listed -but you still need to be real careful.

[anor277]

If I remember my high school chemistry class correctly, adding elemental sodium to water produces a very extreme reaction. The sodium reacts with the water to produce sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and hydrogen gas (H2). There is also a great deal of the formed during the reaction - enough heat to ignite the hydrogen gas.

I do hope the authorities crack down on Vance Alford's fraudulent claims.

Balanced chemical equation:

Na(s) + H2O = NaOH(aq) + 1/2H2.

(This is an issue with occupational health and safety. Safety officers often insist that no water should be used to dispose of alkali metals; forgetting that the use of alcoholic solvents with alkali metals poses the risk that the alcohol can ignite. Ethyl alcohol is in fact safe to use with sodium (the hydrogen does not ignite), however, the more active potassium will ignite ethanol and isopropyl alcohol if the alcohol is used neat.)

[ShowMe]

If I remember my high school chemistry class correctly, adding elemental sodium to water produces a very extreme reaction.


So it would seem.

http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/AlkaliBangs/011_Na_hammer.html


The site also has video of rather intense reactions of water with Lithium, Potassium, and Rubidium. All of which are allegedly found in this water.

[Slimething]

From the last newsletter, X2O is supposed to contain:

Aluminum, Antimony, Barium, Beryllium, Bismuth, Boron, Bromine, Cadmium, Calcium, Carbon, Cerium, Chloride, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Fluoride, Gadolinium, Gallium, Germanium, Gold, Hafnium, Holmium, Indium, Iodine, Iridium, Iron, Lanthanum, Lithium, Lutetium, Magnesium, Manganese, Molybdenum, Neodymium, Nickel, Niobium, Osmium, Palladium, Potassium, Praseodymium, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium, Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfur, Tantalum, Tellurium, Terbium, Thallium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Vanadium, Ytterbium, Zinc, and Zirconium.

I'm a chemist and I could sit down for hours with the references to calculate how much of each claimed ingredient would stay happy in solution with its coingredients but I have a life. It would be a lot easier to ask dear ole Vance to show us the analytical results of each batch. I know in my bones he has no such data.

I remember from way back that a lot of these metals would not remain soluble in alkaline conditions. And, as the boob has listed sulfur as a solute, he has sealed his own doom as most sulfides are insoluble in water at any pH.

I have Googled X2O and I'm afraid it's in the States now. Vance is looking for distributors and there's only too many people willing to sell out their customers to make a buck. But I don't see how this is going to escape regulatory notice for long. It would have to take someone filing suit but this product would be gone in a flash if dear ole Vance had to submit proof that all these metals were in his product. (I considered the regulatory angle that water, considered a food, was probably protected from adulteration but Vance could claim his product is a dietary supplement and thereby escape regulation. Sucks!)

I know he could be sued for mislabeling right off the bat. His teabag claims

"Highly Active" Calcium 94.7%
Magnesium 3.4%
Ocean Trace Minerals 1.4%
L-ascorbic acid .5%
Silver (trace)

and, if so, he'd be selling bags of metal. Notice that the ingredients add up to 100% and virtually no anions that would indicate salts are listed.

All I can say is that "caveat emptor" is alive and well.

[joobz]

I remember from way back that a lot of these metals would not remain soluble in alkaline conditions. And, as the boob has listed sulfur as a solute, he has sealed his own doom as most sulfides are insoluble in water at any pH.

No reason to assume that the sulfur is in a sulfide form and not a sulfate. But then, there's no reason to assume any of these compounds are measurably present.
We know that these compounds have to be much less than these values (in mg/L). And some are actually poorly excreted heavy metals that are known to bioaccumulate (similar to mercury).
Aluminum 2.0E-01
Antimony 6.0E-03
Arsenic 5.0E-02
Barium 2.0E+00
Beryllium 4.0E-03
Cadmium 5.0E-03
Chromium 1.0E-01
Cobalt 9.4E-02
Copper 1.0E+00
Iron 4.7E-01
Lead 5.0E-02
Manganese 5.0E-02
Mercury 2.0E-03
Nickel 1.0E-01
Selenium 5.0E-02
Silver 1.0E-01
Thallium 2.0E-03
Tin 9.4E-01
Vanadium 1.1E-02

which are the target levels for groundwater cleanup in Maryland http://www.mde.state.md.us/assets/document/hazcleanup_Dec2000.pdf.
Drinking water standards are much, much stricter.

[Moochie]

I create "extreme" water by adding three heaped teaspoons of Nescafe to a cupful.

M.

[JonnyFive]

I just shout really loud at my water. Sometimes I get really dizzy. That makes the water more extreme than usual.

[Slimething]

No reason to assume that the sulfur is in a sulfide form and not a sulfate. But then, there's no reason to assume any of these compounds are measurably present..

I considered sulfates and sulfites but dropped them as candidates because there's no oxygen (or hydrogen) on the list. The sulfur may exist in combination with other things that are not on the list as well but this Vance seems to have thrown everything he could think of into this list.

Thanks.

[Scott Haley]

I need some of that water, because I don't get nearly enough ytterbium in my diet. Why is there no yttrium? Does anyone know where I can get some yttrium supplements?

--Scott

[Zygar]

I need some of that water, because I don't get nearly enough ytterbium in my diet. Why is there no yttrium? Does anyone know where I can get some yttrium supplements?

--Scott

Nuclear waste.

[JonnyFive]

Nuclear waste.

Will that also provide me with my RDA of plutonium?

[Folly]

Will that also provide me with my RDA of plutonium?

Definitely! Many times the daily recommended amount, and everyone knows that if a little bit is good, a whole lot must be great. It'll also energise the cells in you body, which comes with the side benefit that you'll never need a flashlight again.

[Zygar]

Definitely! Many times the daily recommended amount, and everyone knows that if a little bit is good, a whole lot must be great. It'll also "energize" the cells in your body, which comes with the side benefit that you'll never need a flashlight again.

There. I corrected it for you.

[delphi_ote]

You could make it really extreme and add cesium instead. :D

[joobz]

You could make it really extreme and add cesium instead. :D
I don't know. I've recently heard some good things about Polonium on the news. Perhaps some of that should be added in.:p

[delphi_ote]

I don't know. I've recently heard some good things about Polonium on the news. Perhaps some of that should be added in.:p
cesium is cooler.
cqeVEFFzz7E

[BillyJoe]

I create "extreme" water by adding three heaped teaspoons of Nescafe to a cupful.You do realise we have water restrictions down here.

[rjh01]

Very explosive video! Maybe they should power rockets with metal and water!?

[joelblanchette]

You do realise we have water restrictions down here.

Define "water restrictions". Is there anywhere on the planet where regulations would permit cadmium to be added to water? That's just one of the most toxic substances in the list of ingredients in X20. It is extremely toxic, a proven carcinogen, and it bioaccumulates. To quote the Wikipedia page: "Cadmium has no constructive purpose in the human body." I've looked up a few of the other elements listed. Many are toxic, or at the very least don't have a useful function in the human body. I also noticed something... There are two elements missing from the list that would be expected to be present. Then again, I suppose water without hydrogen or oxygen would be pretty "extreme." :D

[Mashuna]

cesium is cooler.
cqeVEFFzz7E

I remember watching that. I was most disappointed when it was shown up as a fake (http://www.badscience.net/?p=261#more-261).

Relevant extract from the link:

But what really happened? Deep Throat (okay, Brainiac’s Dr Bunhead, aka Tom Pringle) claims: “Absolutely bloody nothing. The density of caesium ensured it hit the bottom of the bath like a lead weight. The sheer volume of water then totally drowned out the thermal shock-wave I was expecting to shatter the bath. This was an expensive filming day. They had hired part of Pinewood studios and had an ambulance and fire engine plus crew on standby. They could not go home empty handed. So they rigged a bomb in the bottom of the bath (you can see the black wire leading into the bath) and then blew the s*** out of it. I must say it did look cool… [It] ate away at my conscience. But I couldn’t do anything about it.”

[Mashuna]

However this video shows what you get if you drop a kilo of sodium in a lake:

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/011.2/Videos/SodiumLake01.html

[JonnyFive]

Definitely! Many times the daily recommended amount, and everyone knows that if a little bit is good, a whole lot must be great.

That's what I'd always thought, but I was always being told otherwise by people that knew stuff about "chemistry", "nutrition" and "medicine". Forget them, I'm going X-treme!

[Big Al]

I sometimes find that, when bungee jumping off the White Cliffs of Dover towards the jagged rocks below, especially when I realise maybe I have overestimated how long I should cut the bungee lengths, I can get a kind of urgent sensation in my bladder.

Is that Extreme Water making its presence felt? :confused:

[JonnyFive]

Is that Extreme Water making its presence felt? :confused:

Yes. Also, urine.

[joelblanchette]

Very explosive video! Maybe they should power rockets with metal and water!?

That sounds almost like a hypergolic rocket motor. These are useful for small rockets, like the maneuvering jets in the space shuttle, but for a large booster-type rocket, a solid rocket motor is probably better. They have drawbacks, but SRBs have an incredible power-to-weight ratio, and the fuel is relatively safe. Heck, you can even buy small SRBs at any hobby shop that sells model rocket kits. I built plenty of rockets in high school, as part of the science club. Yeah, a bit nerdy, but so was I. Besides, where else could I blow stuff up (sometimes the rockets, sometimes with crazy chemistry experiments) without breaking any laws? :D

For liquid rockets, hydrogen and oxygen are a good choice because they are cheap and plentiful (and easy to mabufacture). Storing them is something of a pain (they are gases that require fairly extreme cold to stay liquid), but they are not really all that dangerous. They aren't very toxic if they leak, and hydrogen will not burn in oxygen without an energy input (i.e. a spark). When they do burn, the result is just water vapor, which is also very environmentally friendly.

[Big Al]

Since chloride and fluoride are included in the list of "elements", it does seem as if the compiler's knowledge of chemistry might be just a leetle suspect.

I was disappointed that he missed out such marvels as technetium, protoactinium, platimum, yttrium and radium. And of course, there were no gaseous elements or transuranics. He was careful to miss out lead, arsenic and antimony, of course - this stuff is healthy and natural.

For the rest of it, he seems pretty much to have included the entire periodic table.

I did notice he was careless enough to include thallium: my hair's growing thin enough on top as it is without thallium poisoning adding to it. For that reason, I don't think I'll be sampling it.

I don't mind heavy metal music, but heavy metal poisoning is another matter.

[delphi_ote]

I remember watching that. I was most disappointed when it was shown up as a fake (http://www.badscience.net/?p=261#more-261).
Wow. That sucks. But I saw a different video of cesium doing something similiar in my highschool chemistry class. The violent reaction is real.

[Ladewig]

Yes. Also, urine.


Please! Such Language! Don't you know that there might be bishops (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=69831) reading this message board?

[JonnyFive]

Please! Such Language! Don't you know that there might be bishops (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=69831)reading this message board?

Ha! Let them try and stop me! Poop! Pee! Fart! Butt! Ca- ::JonnyFive is blasted by a lightning bolt::

[joelblanchette]

Since chloride and fluoride are included in the list of "elements", it does seem as if the compiler's knowledge of chemistry might be just a leetle suspect.

Are your kidneys, liver, and lungs too efficient? Are your bones too hard and strong? Do you long for unendurable pain in all your joints? Then you, my friend, need cadmium!

I was disappointed that he missed out such marvels as technetium, protoactinium, platimum, yttrium and radium. And of course, there were no gaseous elements or transuranics. He was careful to miss out lead, arsenic and antimony, of course - this stuff is healthy and natural.

Technetium is one of the rarest natural elements in the known universe. Of course, it is plentiful in nuclear reactor waste, which seems to be where this water is made... It is actually a useful element, as the 99mTc isotope is used for nuclear medicine. You might want to reread his list, antimony and all its wonderful life-giving effects is in fact included (antimony poisoning is almost indistinguishable from arsenic poisoning)...

For the rest of it, he seems pretty much to have included the entire periodic table.

Again, note that he missed oxygen and hydrogen. :D He also included a large number of extremely rare elements.

I did notice he was careless enough to include thallium: my hair's growing thin enough on top as it is without thallium poisoning adding to it. For that reason, I don't think I'll be sampling it.

I'm pretty sure he goofed with thallium(Tl). I think he meant to include thulium (Tm), which is a lanthanide. He included all of the other naturally-occuring lanthanides (prometheum is the only synthetic lanthanide, and not included). Thulium is only somewhat toxic, thallium is toxic beyond all reason (though there is an antidote, Prussian Blue).

I don't mind heavy metal music, but heavy metal poisoning is another matter.

Some might say that they're the same thing. ;)

[BillyJoe]

Define "water restrictions". This is when you have had a drought for 1o years and your water reserves are hitting rock bottom and the government says you cannot water your lawns or wash your car and encourage you to take 3 minute showers and to shower with a friend (oh, no, maybe they didn't say that).

In these circumstances you do not put 3 heaped teaspoons of coffee in a cup full of water

:cool:

[joelblanchette]

This is when you have had a drought for 1o years and your water reserves are hitting rock bottom and the government says you cannot water your lawns or wash your car and encourage you to take 3 minute showers and to shower with a friend (oh, no, maybe they didn't say that).

In these circumstances you do not put 3 heaped teaspoons of coffee in a cup full of water

:cool:

Considering that's probably 1/3 the recommended amount of water for that much coffee, I'd say that kind of, uh, dosage inline with water restrictions. If you like your coffee gritty and bitter, that is. Or is actually drinking water considered high treason, punishable by drowning (death sentences should be ironic)? At any rate, with that little dihydrogen monoxide available, your body is probably absolutely craving X20! Cadmium and Chromium and Thallium, oh my! ;)

[BillyJoe]

...you do not put 3 heaped teaspoons of coffee in a cup full of water......because it would overflow ;)

[bobdroege7]

Wow. That sucks. But I saw a different video of cesium doing something similiar in my highschool chemistry class. The violent reaction is real.

What a bunch of simpering wimpy frauds.

My high-school chemistry teacher did the sodium in water trick with a yard-stick and a 1000 ml beaker partially full of water. It was quite impressive to the suckers in the front of the class especially when he scrapped residues off of the floor and ceiling and dropped them into the beaker for more reaction.

As for his final wish for some Francium, stating it was even more reactive than Cesium, and they wouldn't let him have any.

Well I've cornered the world market on Francium, I've got all 6000 atoms in the world here in my pocket!

When I was a chemistry 101 Teaching Assistant, I wouldn't give a student credit on a quiz for stating Fracium Hydroxide is a strong base.

Yeah, I was a mean ol TA

[bobdroege7]

double post

[delphi_ote]

Well I've cornered the world market on Francium, I've got all 6000 atoms in the world here in my pocket!
:eek:
You must've spent a lot of time collecting them!